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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Beckett on September 24, 2014, at 19:32:19
Arggggh. I want to avoid adding any medication.
I take
magnesium l-threonate
MorEPA
Chamomile tea, and a light licorice tea blendCan anyone offer something to soothe agitation or stabilize mood? If I take too many supplements/herbs, that's no good, either. Needless to say, coffe has gone out the window....
I could try a micro dose of lithium. Is it available over the counter? (I can look myself.). I threw all my prescription away some time back :(
Posted by Tomatheus on September 24, 2014, at 20:23:10
In reply to Cyclothymia, agitation/cycling, help (please?), posted by Beckett on September 24, 2014, at 19:32:19
Beckett,
I'm sorry to hear about what you're going through with the cycling and agitation. I recall having some success with taurine in keeping my agitation under control prior to the onset of my psychosis, but of course, I'm just one person, so what helped me may not necessarily help you.
One thing I wonder about is what might happen if you were to stop drinking the light licorice tea. With some compounds in licorice having the ability to inhibit the reuptake of serotonin (Ofir et al., 2003), the licorice tea might conceivably be a factor in your cycling. At the same time, it's also possible that the licorice tea might not be doing any harm or that it might also be helping you in some way, but I think that trying to go without the tea (if you'd feel comfortable doing that) might allow you to see if it might be contributing to your cycling in some way.
As far as lithium is concerned, it's my understanding that it's available over the counter in the orotate form, although I think that one of the companies that used to make it has stopped selling it. Still, it can be found at online supplement retailers and probably also at health food stores.
I wish you luck in finding a way to minimize the problems that you're currently having with agitation and cycling, whether or not anything I wrote here ends up helping you in that endeavor. Please let me know if you have any questions about what I've written.
Tomatheus
==
REFERENCE
Ofir, R., Tamir, S., Khatib, S., & Vaya, J. (2003). Inhibition of serotonin re-uptake by licorice constituents. Journal of Molecular Neuroscience, 20, 135-40. Abstract: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12794307
Posted by Beckett on September 26, 2014, at 0:30:31
In reply to Re: Cyclothymia, agitation/cycling, help (please?), posted by Tomatheus on September 24, 2014, at 20:23:10
Hi Tomatheus,
The information on licorice is interesting. My TMC practioner has never prescribed herbals with licorice to the best of my knowledge. The tea I drink is a mild blend, but today I went without.
My psychiatrist bumped my lamictal by 50 mg. and prescribed trimipramine in a low dose to help with sleep. I feel a little better today after a good sleep. However, alternative treatments and habits and less reliance on pharma is ideal.
May I ask about some of the ways you deal with fatigue? Right now my physician is considering cfs, though in many ways the name doesn't matter. However, the dx might make it easier when dealing with other physicians in describing the fatigue I experience.
Posted by Tomatheus on September 26, 2014, at 17:55:26
In reply to Re: Cyclothymia, agitation/cycling, help (please?), posted by Beckett on September 26, 2014, at 0:30:31
Beckett,
I'm glad to hear that you seemed to be feeling a little better as of yesterday after getting some good sleep. I hope that you'll keep feeling at least as well as you were feeling yesterday, and I wish you luck with the medication adjustments.
Fatigue has certainly been a problem that I've been struggling with on an ongoing basis, and I think that to say that I've had little success in keeping it under control would probably be a bit of an understatement. In my experiences, psychiatric medications didn't seem to provide me with any long-term relief as far as boosting my energy was concerned, and trying different dietary supplements using the same trial-and-error approach that psychiatrists use wasn't very helpful either. I also wish that I could say that my experiences with talk therapy taught me some highly valuable ways of coping with my fatigue, but probably the biggest thing I came away with from the talk therapy that I received was that self-soothing and distraction mechanisms may be of some use in dealing with unpleasant states. Such strategies, I think, are helpful to an extent in dealing with fatigue in the sense that the strategies may help the fatigue seem a little less unpleasant, but I can't say that utilizing the strategies helped to actually boost my energy.
One thing that I did that may ultimately turn out to be part of a successful strategy for combating my fatigue was to start supplementing with vitamin D3 after finding out that my vitamin D level was insufficient, at 21.9 ng/mL. As far as actual symptomatic improvement from the vitamin D3 is concerned, I would say that the D3 itself hasn't probably done much to boost my energy and concentration in the long run, but I have noticed that I respond differently to some dietary supplements than I used to, now that I've been on vitamin D3 for several months. Oddly enough, taking vitamin C used to seemingly worsen my fatigue after two consecutive days of supplementation before I was taking vitamin D3, but now, the effects that I seem to get from taking vitamin C seem to be pretty much completely positive, especially as far as its effects on my concentration are concerned. So, for me, learning that I was low in vitamin D and supplementing with vitamin D3 might turn out to be part of an effective long-term strategy for combating my fatigue, even though I think that if the D3 is going to help, it's going to help by changing the way I respond to other supplements and possibly also medications.
Aside from getting a blood-test result indicating that I had a vitamin D insufficiency, I've also for some time now been getting test results indicating that my white blood cell count is elevated, which has been explained to me as being evidence for some sort of infection. I've been tested for Lyme disease, and I also had a number of other tests done on me the last time I was hospitalized, but no positive results seemed to come back. At this point, I suspect toxoplasmosis as a possibility, as it would explain not only my elevated white blood cell count, but also the fact that my psychosis emerged shortly after taking the nitric oxide synthase inhibitor aminoguanidine (aminoguanidine and other nitric oxide synthase inhibitors have been shown to exacerbate toxoplasmosis infections in animal studies). Unfortunately, I haven't been successful in convincing any doctors to test me for toxoplasmosis, so I can't say with much certainty that I'm infected. Could it be that maybe my fatigue was/is caused by a combination of insufficient vitamin D and an infection of some sort (possibly toxoplasmosis)? That's one thing that I'm suspecting right now, and the fact that I'm noticing a little bit of synergy between vitamins D3 and C would seem to support the possibility that I just speculated about, but of course, I'm just speculating.
So basically, to cut to the chase, I would say that I'm currently noticing some possible synergy between the vitamin D3 and the vitamin C I take, leading to some moderate reductions in my fatigue. I'll also say that in my case, learning that my vitamin D level was low and supplementing with the vitamin may have been a turning point in my treatment, as being on vitamin D3 in the long term has seemingly changed the way I respond to some biological treatments (supplements and possibly also medications).
I recall you mentioning in another post of yours that you underwent some tests as part of a work-up for chronic fatigue. Do you know if you were tested for vitamin D? I certainly don't that treating low vitamin D is the answer to everything or that doing so will necessarily treat every condition that's come to be associated with low vitamin D, but if you are low in vitamin D, taking steps to optimize your vitamin D level might at least be part of a strategy you can take to try to combat your fatigue. Finally, if you don't mind me asking, are there any other test results (besides that for vitamin D level) that you received that you think might be relevant as far as your fatigue is concerned? I ask this because getting the results of the tests that I underwent at an orthomolecular treatment center did seem to be a first step of sorts in possibly changing the direction of my treatment (and that's assuming that what I'm doing now will help me in the long run).
Well, I wasn't intending to write such a long message, and I apologize if I went on for too long about myself and my symptoms. Please feel free to respond to any questions you feel comfortable answering. Also, and I should probably say this in more of my messages, please take what I say with a grain of salt and understand that even though I hope that you'll find some of what I've written to be useful that what has helped me may not help everybody. Having said that, I hope that you'll find a way to get the relief that you're looking for so you can be well.
Take care,
Tomatheus
Posted by Beckett on September 28, 2014, at 17:24:30
In reply to Re: Cyclothymia, agitation/cycling, help (please?) » Beckett, posted by Tomatheus on September 26, 2014, at 17:55:26
Hi Tomatheus,
I have the first test order here from the infectious disease specialist. His handwriting is illegible. The test include Lyme ( two types), myceplesm, chlamdyia pneumonia, hhv-6, cmv, babesia, bartonella, enihclmnesis, rickettsial...[illegible]. Hhv-6 tested rather high, for which valtrex was prescribed. I wasn't tested for VitD. I guess I should be. I'm not sure what the next step will be, and I don't mind posting if you'd be interested.
The hhv-6 confuses me. Everyone carries it, I have never had out breaks, though I could be a silent carrier. Anyways, the valtrex made me very ill, mentally and physically. Apparently it does not really help chronic fatigue, so I am unsure as to my next step.
Are you able to order your own toxoplasmosis test? I've read and seen science programs on it's effects on a select few people. It's definitely a reasonable request. I was tested before my first pregnancy. I can't remember why.
What form of vit d do you take. I've had some in a tiny squeeze bottle. The liquid was a creamy pearl, and a dot on the finger tip gave a days requirement. Thank you for reminding me about it.
May I ask about what tests you may have had?
Thanks,
B
Posted by Tomatheus on September 28, 2014, at 23:10:46
In reply to Re: Cyclothymia, agitation/cycling, help (please?) » Tomatheus, posted by Beckett on September 28, 2014, at 17:24:30
Hi Beckett,
Thank you for your post. I'm sorry to hear about the reaction that you had to the valtrex that you took, and I hope that the next step that you will end up taking treatment wise will end up producing better results (and hopefully *much* better results) than the results you got from valtrex. And yes, please feel free to keep posting with updates on how your treatment goes if you feel comfortable doing so, as I'd be interested in reading about how you end up faring with your treatment.
From my perspective, getting your vitamin D level tested seems like it would probably be a good idea. I think that there's some evidence that individuals with clinical depression tend to have lower vitamin D levels than most, although I think that studies that have evaluated vitamin D as a treatment for clinical depression have produced mixed results. And as I've said, I can't say that supplementing with vitamin D3 alone has done a whole lot for my fatigue or any of my other symptoms, but at the same time, I think it's possible that supplementing with the D3 may be helping me respond better to other treatments. I take a liquid version of vitamin D3, Vitamin Shoppe brand.
Other than the Lyme disease and vitamin D tests that I've already mentioned, I had the following tests done when I went to an orthomolecular treatment center last year: heavy metals profile (which tested for lead, arsenic, mercury, and cadmium), comprehensive metabolic panel, CBC (complete blood count), free thyroxine (T4), folate (folic acid), TSH (thyroid-stimulating hormone), histamine determination, urinary pyrroles, vitamin B12, ceruloplasmin, copper, zinc, and ferritin. Most of the tests came back with normal results, except my serum glucose from the comprehensive metabolic panel came back slightly high (100 mg/dL), and my white blood cell count came back elevated (11.9 x10E3/uL). The report from the lab that I went to didn't indicate that my level of urinary pyrroles (11 ug/dL) was high, but my level was apparently high enough for the orthomolecular treatment center that I went to to recommend that I take supplements for pyrrole disorder. I've taken zinc and vitamin B6 without lasting positive results, but I do wonder if I might respond better to the supplements now that I've been taking enough vitamin D3 for long enough now that it's probably raised my level of the vitamin.
I'm not entirely sure if I'd be able to order my own test for antibodies to the organism that causes toxoplasmosis. I did previously come across a post on another forum from somebody who ordered his own toxoplasmosis test from a Web site, but when I checked the Web site that he mentioned using, I didn't see the tests for the IgG or IgM antibodies listed. I might be able to order it from elsewhere, though, and that's a possibility that I plan on looking into.
To conclude, I would like to wish you luck with your treatment and with getting some possible answers from any more tests that you may undergo. I don't know if you or your doctors might be interested in having you undergo some of the tests that I mentioned undergoing, but the tests that I went through (or at least some of them) might be worth thinking about. At any rate, I wish you luck, and I really hope that you'll have some good news to share with us Babblers before long.
Tomatheus
Posted by Hugh on September 29, 2014, at 10:34:05
In reply to Cyclothymia, agitation/cycling, help (please?), posted by Beckett on September 24, 2014, at 19:32:19
I have a friend who has never been officially diagnosed, but he considers himself hypomanic. A month ago he started a ketogenic diet, and he says that since then he has felt much more stable and focused. Since he started his diet, I've found it much easier to carry on lengthy conversations with him. Before, his attention would fade in and out. Also, he says that for years he thrashed around in bed all night, and the sheets would be strewn all over the place by morning. Since he began his diet, he now wakes up neatly tucked in. The book he recommends is Keto Clarity by Jimmy Moore.
Also, check out this post about how diet can affect bipolar disorder:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20131226/msgs/1063179.html
Posted by Beckett on September 29, 2014, at 19:19:39
In reply to Re: Cyclothymia, agitation/cycling, help (please?), posted by Hugh on September 29, 2014, at 10:34:05
I found this interesting. A podcast from Radiolab. There is a link to an article written by the participant, too.
http://www.radiolab.org/story/9-volt-nirvana/
Posted by Beckett on September 29, 2014, at 19:52:24
In reply to Re: Cyclothymia, agitation/cycling, help (please?) » Beckett, posted by Tomatheus on September 28, 2014, at 23:10:46
Hi Tomatheus,
I wish you luck, too. And I'll keep you posted. Let me know how you are doing, too, if you will. Testing for toxoplasmosis seems more complicated than I thought, with results varying greatly lab to lab. At least that is what I gleamed. I still think it is quite reasonable to be tested, and in that I wish you luck, too.
Yesterday I helped clean our chicken house and other chores, and today I feel like I have the flu. I tire of not fully participating for fear of crashing.
B
Posted by Tomatheus on September 29, 2014, at 20:37:24
In reply to Re: Cyclothymia, agitation/cycling, help (please?) » Tomatheus, posted by Beckett on September 29, 2014, at 19:52:24
Hi Beckett,
It's too bad that you're experiencing some flu-like symptoms after having done some cleaning and other chores yesterday. I'm not a medical professional, but it sounds like you may be experiencing post-exertional malaise. I don't generally experience that symptom myself, as I don't think I meet the full diagnostic criteria for chronic fatigue syndrome, but I know that it's something that many with chronic fatigue syndrome/myalgic encephalomyelitis struggle with. I most definitely hope that you'll find a treatment or combination of treatments that will at the very least help make all of your symptoms more manageable. It's good to hear that you plan on posting updates on how you're doing, and I plan on doing the same.
Tomatheus
Posted by Hugh on October 1, 2014, at 16:08:59
In reply to Re: Cyclothymia, agitation/cycling, help (please?) » Hugh, posted by Beckett on September 29, 2014, at 19:19:39
> I found this interesting. A podcast from Radiolab. There is a link to an article written by the participant, too.
>
> http://www.radiolab.org/story/9-volt-nirvana/I liked the podcast very much, except for the end, when two of the people who had experienced tDCS wondered, "What would happen if I felt this good all of the time? Would I take feeling good for granted? Wouldn't this be a bad thing?" I've felt lousy most of the time for most of my life. If I can find a treatment that makes me feel good all of the time, most of the time, or part of the time, I wouldn't spend two seconds worrying about the possible consequences of taking this for granted.
Posted by Beckett on October 3, 2014, at 14:37:05
In reply to Re: Cyclothymia, agitation/cycling, help (please?) » Beckett, posted by Hugh on October 1, 2014, at 16:08:59
That passed me by unnoticed because, I think, I am used to not being a normie, and you're right. I'm sorry about that, Hugh, for that reminder. I am thinking of trying this again and playing around with placement of the electrodes (is that what they're called?). Help getting into a clear and maybe creative space would be great, even temporarily. I have trouble focusing like I used to. Not to practice my sniper skills.
Is the unit they used close to the unit you or your friend made?
Posted by Hugh on October 4, 2014, at 13:11:57
In reply to Re: Cyclothymia, agitation/cycling, help (please?) » Hugh, posted by Beckett on October 3, 2014, at 14:37:05
The tDCS unit Sally Adee used looks a lot like mine, and a lot like The Brain Stimulator.
The placement she used -- anode (positive) electrode on the right temple and cathode (negative) electrode on the left arm -- isn't the one typically used for depression, which is anode on the left side and cathode on the right side.
A great place to learn about tDCS is a Yahoo group called tDCStim. There haven't been any messages posted since May, but there is a lot of valuable information in the archives and in the files.
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/tDCStim/conversations/messages
Posted by Hugh on October 6, 2014, at 14:38:10
In reply to Cyclothymia, agitation/cycling, help (please?), posted by Beckett on September 24, 2014, at 19:32:19
> Can anyone offer something to soothe agitation or stabilize mood?
Butyrate may help unipolar and bipolar disorder.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23994816
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25233278
I recently started taking xylitol, which increases butyrate levels in the gut.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17995737
I'm taking a really low dose -- 2 grams a day -- but I've noticed that it elevates my mood somewhat. I'm going to gradually increase my dosage over the next couple weeks. Too much xylitol can cause bloating and/or diarrhea.
Posted by Hugh on October 12, 2014, at 10:01:28
In reply to Cyclothymia, agitation/cycling, help (please?), posted by Beckett on September 24, 2014, at 19:32:19
This clinical trial is currently underway: Probiotics to Prevent Relapse After Hospitalization for Mania
http://clinicaltrials.gov/show/NCT01731171
USANA contains the two strains of probiotics that are being used in this study, LactobacillusGG and Bifidobacteria lactis strain Bb12.
Posted by Beckett on October 12, 2014, at 14:49:39
In reply to Re: Cyclothymia, agitation/cycling, help (please?) » Beckett, posted by Hugh on October 12, 2014, at 10:01:28
Hugh, I so appreciate your post(!)
This strain is in addition to the strain discussed in the kefir thread. I'll check this out in addition to restarting kefir grains. I let them slip away after a bad batch. The weather turned and we no longer used the wood stove where the grains had their spot nearby.
Is that other link the only place to obtain the additional strains? I'll see if I can ferret out another source.
Posted by Hugh on October 13, 2014, at 13:33:43
In reply to Kefir and probiotics for mood disorders » Hugh, posted by Beckett on October 12, 2014, at 14:49:39
> Is that other link the only place to obtain the additional strains? I'll see if I can ferret out another source.
LactobacillusGG is in Culturelle (15 billion active cultures). Bifidobacteria lactis BB-12 is in Aldi's Friendly Farms Probiotic Yogurt, though I don't know how much. USANA contains 6 billion active cultures of BB-12 and 6 billion active cultures of LactobacillusGG.
Posted by Christ_empowered on October 13, 2014, at 15:47:02
In reply to Re: Cyclothymia, agitation/cycling, help (please?) » Beckett, posted by Tomatheus on September 28, 2014, at 23:10:46
maybe....taurine, niacinamide ?
Posted by linkadge on November 16, 2014, at 19:42:45
In reply to Cyclothymia, agitation/cycling, help (please?), posted by Beckett on September 24, 2014, at 19:32:19
Taurine is great for rapid cycling.
This is the end of the thread.
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