![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Mistermindmasta on July 29, 2006, at 20:29:38
I find rhodiola is more of a stimulant than an antidepressant in that the effect wears off after like 8 hours. Also, I find that if I use it every, the effect lessens.
One thing is certain though... acutely, a high dose is EXTREMELY stimulating but extremely relaxing to the mind at the same time. It's also euphoric. Do you find similar results to what I have described?
Posted by Declan on July 30, 2006, at 4:27:54
In reply to Meri-Tuuli Re: Rhodiola, posted by Mistermindmasta on July 29, 2006, at 20:29:38
I hope you don't mind me putting in my 2 bob's worth. I used it with low dose deprenyl and it was pretty good, except for the insomnia. Much better than Parnate for me. I was taking 1-2mg deprenyl citrate sublingual and 1-2 caps of rhodiola.
So that complicates it, but it seemed to me that rhodiola was long acting, insomnia wise. But for a while it was so good I didn't care.
I must try all this again without alcohol and see if that makes a difference to the insomnia.
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on July 30, 2006, at 6:03:39
In reply to Meri-Tuuli Re: Rhodiola, posted by Mistermindmasta on July 29, 2006, at 20:29:38
Hiya!
> I find rhodiola is more of a stimulant than an antidepressant in that the effect wears off after like 8 hours. Also, I find that if I use it every, the effect lessens.
I haven't noticed this effect. I tend to get a touch of anxiety in the evenings, perhaps this is evidence of the rhodiola wearing off? I'm not sure. I'm on my third month of 100mg root extract and I haven't noticed any poop out.
> One thing is certain though... acutely, a high dose is EXTREMELY stimulating but extremely relaxing to the mind at the same time. It's also euphoric. Do you find similar results to what I have described?
I'm afraid I haven't ever gone that high, and I'm not sure I'll ever try it out!! I started out with half a 100mg cap then now on the full 100mg cap. I have found that I haven't needed to go higher than this, even through its a pretty low dose (according to the "rhodiola revolution" by Richard Brown MD, the usual doseages are in the region of 200mg - 400mg). But I have heard of people who take acute dosages for stressful events and things. How much do you mean by 'extremely high'?
But for me, the main effects seem to be mood brightening (very much so!), and an increase in energy, and perhaps mental focus. Bad events just don't seem to effect me like they used to, and good thoughts seem to get amplified. I'm really liking it.
Yeah, like I said, it doesn't seem to effect anxiety through. But its not soo bad, and when it is, I just have a couple of drinks and its okay.
Word of warning through, if I drink coffee, it seems to amplify the effects of caffine etc in the coffee. So, I've switched to green tea. I'm hoping the L-theaine in the green tea will have a good effect on the evening anxiety. But the anxiety is pretty mild to be honest, and I usually manage to distract myself from it, or ignore it or just reason with myself -- and have a beer!!!!! Plus my pdoc thinks I don't have enough things to do, and the anxiety is just sort of not having enough things to occupy my mind with. I think it might be true as a couple of days ago we went camping and I didn't even think about my little anxieties.
you taking rhodiola with anything else???
Kind regards
Meri
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on July 30, 2006, at 6:28:52
In reply to Re: Meri-Tuuli Re: Rhodiola, posted by Declan on July 30, 2006, at 4:27:54
Hiya Declan! :o)
> I hope you don't mind me putting in my 2 bob's worth.
No, not at all!
> So that complicates it, but it seemed to me that rhodiola was long acting, insomnia wise. But for a while it was so good I didn't care.
Yeah I don't really notice it wearing off. I'm begining to think maybe I'm not going high enough. Hmmm. Maybe its a brand thing. I'm taking NewChapter Rhodiola Force 100mg, which seems to be even more kosher than the stuff from Solgar, but well.
> I must try all this again without alcohol and see if that makes a difference to the insomnia.Yeah it might do. Perhaps you could try it on its own? Alot of alcohol always makes me sleep less well. Also, it might be interacting with the other medication somehow. My sleep hasn't been affected at all by it, but then sleep isn't a problem with me (fortunately!).
Kind regards
Meri
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on July 30, 2006, at 6:37:40
In reply to Re: Meri-Tuuli Re: Rhodiola » Declan, posted by Meri-Tuuli on July 30, 2006, at 6:28:52
I would rather like to try this combo. I think it would be awesome!!!!!! However, I'm holding off the SJW until the summer disappears. I'm not sure it would make me more sun sensitive!
Anybody ever tried this combo?
Posted by Mistermindmasta on July 31, 2006, at 9:36:30
In reply to Re: Meri-Tuuli Re: Rhodiola » Mistermindmasta, posted by Meri-Tuuli on July 30, 2006, at 6:03:39
> I haven't noticed this effect. I tend to get a touch of anxiety in the evenings, perhaps this is evidence of the rhodiola wearing off? I'm not sure.
Might be. My "anxiety" was purely emotional, not physical. I just tend to feel increased fear, directed at nothing, when it wears off.
> I'm afraid I haven't ever gone that high, and I'm not sure I'll ever try it out!!Yeah, well I've gone up to 1,000 mg a day. I took one of the new chapter ones that has 300 mg in it and took 3... so that's actually only 900 mg but it's still a high dose. A dose that high of the new chapter brand definitely will make you feel less stressed.
>
> But for me, the main effects seem to be mood brightening (very much so!), and an increase in energy, and perhaps mental focus. Bad events just don't seem to effect me like they used to, and good thoughts seem to get amplified. I'm really liking it.Yeah, I've had the same results. But the problem is that it wears off later in the day (at ANY dose), which for me, is not much better than using guarana as a little mood brightener.
> Yeah, like I said, it doesn't seem to effect anxiety through. But its not soo bad, and when it is, I just have a couple of drinks and its okay.
>
> Word of warning through, if I drink coffee, it seems to amplify the effects of caffine etc in the coffee.Interestingly, I find the opposite. For me, it tends to cancel out the things that I love about caffeine. For example, being super energized and feeling like you have a lot of energy and you can take on anything... that all seems to go away when I'm using rhodiola. But then again, maybe rhodiola is acting as sort of a mood stabilizer which would fit it's adaptogenic profile I suppose.
> you taking rhodiola with anything else???
I've tried it with other things. I've taken it many many times on and off for the past few years and I generally get consistant results. The brands tend to vary in their "feel", regardless of what the label says. New chapter definitely is the best though, without question. I've tried 6 or 7 different brands, possibly more. I've tried rhodiola with 5-HTP and almost had a panic attack. Keep in my that I've never had a panic attack and am not prone to them. So I'd say that 5-HTP and rhodiola isn't the safest combination, but it might work well for some people. I've tried rhodiola with kava, which is actually really really really nice. Possibly the best combination of any herb I've tried. The problem is that kava is not too safe for long term consumption. I've never personally had any problems that I've known, but last time I had a blood check, my white blood cells were slightly low and kava is known to do that. So I don't feel too safe taking kava indefinitely. I can't remember off the top of my head taking it with anything else, but if I have, it wasn't memorable enough to report.
Also, I don't take pharmaceuticals. My problems aren't severe enough to warrant the use of more powerful drugs. My problems, then, in case you're wondering, is that I tend to have mild problems with being lazy and some mild anxiety problems, along with mood swings upon taking any mind altering substance. Maybe that's why I react so strong to rhodiola and caffeine? Maybe I'm more BPII than anything else? But I've never had a diagnoses and never went to a doc about any of this. But I guess I'm still highly functional, that's why I don't resort to meds.
I'm also a kid in college and a manager at a restaurant so I need to be at my best at all times.
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on August 2, 2006, at 3:26:47
In reply to Re: Meri-Tuuli Re: Rhodiola, posted by Mistermindmasta on July 31, 2006, at 9:36:30
Hey MMM!
Glad to have found another rhodiola fan. I was worried that I might be the only person out there....and that there was some abstract on pubmed that said it was totaly unsafe or something, and I had missed it....
> Might be. My "anxiety" was purely emotional, not physical. I just tend to feel increased fear, directed at nothing, when it wears off.
My anxiety is also purely emotional. But I can get around it usually.
> Yeah, well I've gone up to 1,000 mg a day. I took one of the new chapter ones that has 300 mg in it and took 3... so that's actually only 900 mg but it's still a high dose. A dose that high of the new chapter brand definitely will make you feel less stressed.What does it feel like at these higher dosages?
> Yeah, I've had the same results. But the problem is that it wears off later in the day (at ANY dose), which for me, is not much better than using guarana as a little mood brightener.I actually spoke to a herbalist about this, and she seemed to think that herbs don't really wear off. Maybe its not so much the herb wearing off, but maybe the herb accentuates the natural energy you have during the day, and then at night it sort of fades out, as its not supporting the relaxing tired phase at night. If you kinda get what I mean.
> Interestingly, I find the opposite. For me, it tends to cancel out the things that I love about caffeine. For example, being super energized and feeling like you have a lot of energy and you can take on anything... that all seems to go away when I'm using rhodiola. But then again, maybe rhodiola is acting as sort of a mood stabilizer which would fit it's adaptogenic profile I suppose.Probably! Who knows. We all react completely differently! I generally tend to be sort of sensitve to caffine anyway.
> I've tried it with other things. I've taken it many many times on and off for the past few years and I generally get consistant results.Thats good to know! I haven't come across anyone here who has used it like this. BTW do you need to take breaks whilst taking it, like some of the ginsengs? Nowhere I've read says that you should, but then, its not that well known.
>The brands tend to vary in their "feel", regardless of what the label says. New chapter definitely is the best though, without question. I've tried 6 or 7 different brands, possibly more.
Well, its good to know that I've gone straight to the best brand! Yeah the guy who owns this quirky little supplement shop rated New Chapter rhodiola over Solgar rhodiola, which I thought was surprising, because Solgar are meant to be pretty good.
I'm also taking a tincture of stuff this herbalist I saw drew up containing: Schrizandra, rosemary, damiana, ginkgo, siberbian ginseng. I'm hoping it'll work nicely with the rhoidola, but I'm taking tiny amounts every day. I'm completely paranoid about any adverse interactions!
> Also, I don't take pharmaceuticals.
No me neither. I've tried various SSRIs etc, all horrible.
> I'm also a kid in college and a manager at a restaurant so I need to be at my best at all times.
I'm going back to college in the fall to do a masters - I'm hoping rhoidola will be good to use all through it! :o)
Posted by Mistermindmasta on August 2, 2006, at 23:10:27
In reply to Re: Meri-Tuuli Re: Rhodiola, posted by Meri-Tuuli on August 2, 2006, at 3:26:47
> I actually spoke to a herbalist about this, and she seemed to think that herbs don't really wear off. Maybe its not so much the herb wearing off, but maybe the herb accentuates the natural energy you have during the day, and then at night it sort of fades out, as its not supporting the relaxing tired phase at night. If you kinda get what I mean.
Yeah, I know what you mean, but I'm pretty familiar with how my body feels during the day vs. night when I'm not using any herbs/drugs/etc and I don't really have a drop in energy at night. Usually I'm consistant through the day. But rhodiola use really has a drop off.One thing that frustrates me about the natural foods industry is that everything tends to be idealized. This is not to disagree with you at all, but more with your herbalist: any chemicals and compounds in herbs are still "drugs" to the body... to say that herbs don't wear off is non-science, to me. Certainly, herbs that function as antidepressants tend to not "wear off" after a few hours, with an example being St. John's Wort. SJW isn't a stimulant, really, which has been supported by science. It's an antidepressant, whose effects don't exactly wax and wane over the course of a day. But herbs that have a stimulating or anti-anxiety quality, such as valerian or possibly rhodiola, definitely have potential to wear off. Another thing about herbs is that sometimes they have compounds that offset the side effects of the active compound(s)... or they have natural antioxidants that will offset the side effects of the active compounds. Of course, to assume all herbs possess this quality to the fullest extent is non-science. The practice of selling or promoting herbs in a non-scientific way is exactly why the FDA loves to crack down on the alternative industry and its exactly why the alternative industry is constantly being threatened.
Rhodiola is sometimes classified as an adaptogen, and I'd say that's somewhat true. Based purely on my own subjective observations, I would say that's it's 50% herbal stimulant and 50% adaptogen.
Posted by Mistermindmasta on August 2, 2006, at 23:22:41
In reply to Re: Meri-Tuuli Re: Rhodiola, posted by Meri-Tuuli on August 2, 2006, at 3:26:47
> Glad to have found another rhodiola fan. I was worried that I might be the only person out there....and that there was some abstract on pubmed that said it was totaly unsafe or something, and I had missed it....
Fortunately, I've never read once single report of their being any safety issues whatsoever with Rhodiola. But let me tell you from my own experience... it DEFINITELY will make a hangover 100 times worse.
> What does it feel like at these higher dosages?It feels like a really nice caffeine buzz but without the shakiness and overwhelming stimulation. Everything feels easy, nothing is stressful. Creativity significantly increases. Social skills SIGNIFICANTLY increase. Confidence increases a lot.
BTW do you need to take breaks whilst taking it, like some of the ginsengs? Nowhere I've read says that you should, but then, its not that well known.I take breaks with any herb I use, but that's just my personal choice. I'd say it's safe to use indefinitely, though. I just feel safer taking intermittent breaks just in case there are side effects that are unknown at this point in time. Also, I find that Rhodiola's withdrawal period is only like 24 - 36 hours, which is nice.
> Well, its good to know that I've gone straight to the best brand! Yeah the guy who owns this quirky little supplement shop rated New Chapter rhodiola over Solgar rhodiola, which I thought was surprising, because Solgar are meant to be pretty good.Interestly, I bought a bottle of solgar that was even stronger than new chapter and then I bought another bottle of the same solgar product and it was weak. New chapter tends to feel the same from bottle to bottle, that's another reason why I use new chapter.
>
> I'm also taking a tincture of stuff this herbalist I saw drew up containing: Schrizandra, rosemary, damiana, ginkgo, siberbian ginseng. I'm hoping it'll work nicely with the rhoidola, but I'm taking tiny amounts every day. I'm completely paranoid about any adverse interactions!Yeah, I'd be paranoid, too. I only like to combine like 2 - 3 herbs at one time. Again, that's just my personal choice. But I do find that combining herbs is really the way to go.
> I'm going back to college in the fall to do a masters - I'm hoping rhoidola will be good to use all through it! :o)
>Very cool. Try kava and SJW if you haven't already tried them. They tend to be compatible with school.
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on August 4, 2006, at 5:30:48
In reply to Re: Meri-Tuuli Re: Rhodiola, posted by Mistermindmasta on August 2, 2006, at 23:10:27
Hey again!
> One thing that frustrates me about the natural foods industry is that everything tends to be idealized. This is not to disagree with you at all, but more with your herbalist: any chemicals and compounds in herbs are still "drugs" to the body... to say that herbs don't wear off is non-science, to me. Certainly, herbs that function as antidepressants tend to not "wear off" after a few hours, with an example being St. John's Wort. SJW isn't a stimulant, really, which has been supported by science. It's an antidepressant, whose effects don't exactly wax and wane over the course of a day. But herbs that have a stimulating or anti-anxiety quality, such as valerian or possibly rhodiola, definitely have potential to wear off. Another thing about herbs is that sometimes they have compounds that offset the side effects of the active compound(s)... or they have natural antioxidants that will offset the side effects of the active compounds. Of course, to assume all herbs possess this quality to the fullest extent is non-science. The practice of selling or promoting herbs in a non-scientific way is exactly why the FDA loves to crack down on the alternative industry and its exactly why the alternative industry is constantly being threatened.
I totally agree with you. My herbalist has a tendancy to say things like she 'percieves herbs as not having any side effects', yet readily admits that with SJW you have to watch out for photosensitivity and liver enzyme issues. Which are obviously side effects. But to be fair, she does know her stuff. I guess part of the herbal culture is to be quite mystical and things like that to try and separate it from conventional medicine. But really, all herbs/medicines are just chemical compounds, whether they come from a plant or a pill factory as you pointed out. And alot of conventional medicine is derived from plants anyway, eg paracetamol, atropine, blah blah blah.
> Rhodiola is sometimes classified as an adaptogen, and I'd say that's somewhat true. Based purely on my own subjective observations, I would say that's it's 50% herbal stimulant and 50% adaptogen.
I'd probably agree with you on that one. Having never really taken a adaptogen or a stimulant before rhodiola, I have nothing to compare them to so I couldn't really say. All I know is that rhodiola does something I really like!!! Hmmm. I'm begining to think that 100mg might be a touch too low. Hmmm. Well, its probably good to have it at this level for now (I'm far from stressed etc) so when I go do the masters in the fall, I could bump it up somewhat as the occasion requires. Plus I've got the cocktail of herbs that the herbalist gave me. Interestingly, she'd not really heard about rhodiola.....but she's really looking into it now.
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on August 4, 2006, at 6:00:05
In reply to Re: Meri-Tuuli Re: Rhodiola, posted by Mistermindmasta on August 2, 2006, at 23:22:41
>it DEFINITELY will make a hangover 100 times worse.
I haven't really noticed this one yet properly, as I haven't really had any great alcohol binges recently. But I do drink maybe one or two bottles a beer a night, and I certainly do feel a touch groggy in the mornings. Yeah, I think you've never touched conventional medicines right?? Well, SSRIs etc also have the same effect. Really make hangovers unbearable. Good to know about the safely profile too. I get the impression that its particulary safe, even for a herb. Apparently it has anti-cancer and anti-oxidant properties too.
> I take breaks with any herb I use, but that's just my personal choice. I'd say it's safe to use indefinitely, though. I just feel safer taking intermittent breaks just in case there are side effects that are unknown at this point in time.
Very sensible. i've only been on it for two months, so I don't feel like I need a break. Plus I take a pretty low dose, so I'll be alright for the next few months at least. Probably good to take breaks too to avoid poop out.
>Also, I find that Rhodiola's withdrawal period is only like 24 - 36 hours, which is nice.
This is interesting. I obviously haven't stopped it yet, but its good to know. I guess this would be congrugent with its stimulant properties etc. I had a hellish time for two weeks coming of SJW.
Do you have any ideas as to how rhodiola might work?? I know that nobody really has a clue, but I read some reports that it might be a COMT inhibitor.
>that's another reason why I use new chapter.
Plus they're the only ones who I've seen giving you correct information regarding when to take it. BTW do you do the half hour before breakfast thing?
> Very cool. Try kava and SJW if you haven't already tried them. They tend to be compatible with school.
I have tried SJW before, but not in conjunction with anything else. It was quite good. Good for anxiety and general blue feelings. Have you tried it with rhodiola? I'd be really interested in hearing about that. Have you tried rhodiola with any amino acid supps? Hmm. I'm not sure what I think about amino acids. On the one hand, I tried tyrosine and it was amazing (loads of energy, socialability, curbed apetite, great outlook) but I somehow think that they're only a short term solution. It goes against my instincts to think that that sort of response would be sustainiable long term. I'm sure the body would get used to receiving a certain about of amino acid and that i'd poop out and then you'd be left worse off that you started with.
Hmm. Rhodiola with tyrosine would be like rocket fuel or something. I, personally, would be far to scared to try it.
Anyway yeah kava kava, I don't know, I read some concerns about liver toxicity with this one. a paragraph in a book I have says that under normal circumstances kava kava isn't a problem, but if you're taking prescription drugs, a heavy drinker, kava adds to your livers burden and that a metabolite of kava can build up particulary if you're using a brand that eliminates glutathione. I'm not even sure you can buy it anywhere here. I can give you more details if you want.
Thanks for all your input.
BTW what do you study? I've studied geology and will be going back in the fall.... yeah, rocks, I know.
Kind regards
Meri
Posted by dreamboat_annie on September 16, 2006, at 17:42:42
In reply to Re: Meri-Tuuli Re: Rhodiola » Mistermindmasta, posted by Meri-Tuuli on July 30, 2006, at 6:03:39
Can I ask how long it took for you to notice the positive effects of the Rhodiola after you started taking it? Thanks.
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Alternative | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.