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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 49 to 73 of 73. Go back in thread:
Posted by Declan on October 24, 2005, at 14:46:15
In reply to Re: Tyrosine vs. Phenylalanine experiences? » Declan, posted by Zillah on October 15, 2005, at 14:08:05
The dietary restrictions aren't a problem for me because my diet is vegetables, fruit, protein (unaged) and whisky. And that's it. Sometimes I like Parnate, sometimes I don't. ATM I'm feeling that I prefer 400mg SAMe and 1mg deprenyl. It's not such a bad combination and doesn't do anything awful to me.
Declan
Posted by BarbaraCat on October 25, 2005, at 19:48:11
In reply to Re: Macuna experiences » barbaracat, posted by Jakeman on October 16, 2005, at 13:58:39
Hi Jake,
You mention HGH and macuna. I read that in the data and it intrigued me because I'm using HGH by injection. My growth hormone tested really low too and it's one of the things sometimes seen in fibromyalgia. I think it's helped me alot because since I started taking it my hormones became more consistent instead of ping-ponging around. That tells me that my alot of my mood and health issues probably have something to do with a bum HPA-axis.What I'm not sure about is if it's a secretogogue or works another way. There's no sense using a secretogogue for HGH, like some of the aminos, if there's little to work with. Its like giving a woman fertility drugs when she's post-menopausal. Nothing can convince eggs that aren't there to do much of anything.
I relate to not always taking supplements. I have boxes and cabinets and countertops full of bottles containing next best thing that's going to solve all my problems. They sit there and become overwhelming to deal with so they just sit there more. One more thing to maintain. But But I never miss the HGH and my thyroid and other hormones because I definitely notice when I slack off.
I haven't been taking the macuna lately. I'm taking some time off like the literature suggests. It'll be interesting to see how things feels when I resume.
Sorry you're battling the blues. I think many of us deal with a slump around this time of year. I don't have SAD or anything and love rainy days, but wintertime has meant hard times since the beginning of time and we must be hardwired to dread it.
I got an Apollo sunlamp a few months ago and hope I remember to use it. It helps with if you don't have SAD since it supposedly makes serotonin. So does high doses of Vitamin D taken with B6. I take a professional high dose Vit D drops. Maybe that's one of the reasons we go into a slump in the dark days - not enough Vitamin D = low serotonin.
I also have some TMG sitting on my countertop but never took it long enough to decide if it was for me or not. I took Sam-e for a year or so and just couldn't tell. I'd be interested in your thoughts on it. Ciao! Barbara
Posted by Jakeman on October 26, 2005, at 20:21:54
In reply to Re: Macuna experiences » Jakeman, posted by BarbaraCat on October 25, 2005, at 19:48:11
Hi Barbara,
I got some macuna 2 days ago and have just started it. So far it have seems to give me a lift in energy-drive and clarity of thought, I guess like what one would expect from increased dopamine. I almost feels like my experiences from DHEA from several years ago. But DHEA aggravated my insomnia and so far that has not happened with mucuna.
I am thinking of combining mucuna with Mentat in a few days. By itself, Mentat gave me an antidepressant effect somewhat like my first experience with SSRI's before they quit working. Of course these herbal formulations may poop-out too but there's always hope. Maybe the key is to switch back and forth.
That's a good suggestion about getting sunlight and vit D. I find it makes a difference if I just take 15 minutes at lunch time outside with my face in full sun. That's usually not hard to do here in south TX, it just requires a little bit of self discipline.
For me the jury is out on TMG. I chose it over SAMe due to lower cost. I'm not sure if it's helped me or not, but the research shows it can help with depression and stress on the liver and heart. For now I taking a Solgar vitamin called homocysteine modulators which has TMG, B, and folic acid. Since my family has a history of heart disease and depression I figure it can't hurt.
I'm hoping my HGH levels will improve whenever I start getting better sleep (another long story) If not, I will look into injections. With me there are psychological issues that play in
which I'm also working on.I really appreciate your thoughts and hope you will continue posting about your experiences.
warm regards ~Jake
> Hi Jake,
> You mention HGH and macuna. I read that in the data and it intrigued me because I'm using HGH by injection. My growth hormone tested really low too and it's one of the things sometimes seen in fibromyalgia. I think it's helped me alot because since I started taking it my hormones became more consistent instead of ping-ponging around. That tells me that my alot of my mood and health issues probably have something to do with a bum HPA-axis.
>
> What I'm not sure about is if it's a secretogogue or works another way. There's no sense using a secretogogue for HGH, like some of the aminos, if there's little to work with. Its like giving a woman fertility drugs when she's post-menopausal. Nothing can convince eggs that aren't there to do much of anything.
>
> I relate to not always taking supplements. I have boxes and cabinets and countertops full of bottles containing next best thing that's going to solve all my problems. They sit there and become overwhelming to deal with so they just sit there more. One more thing to maintain. But But I never miss the HGH and my thyroid and other hormones because I definitely notice when I slack off.
>
> I haven't been taking the macuna lately. I'm taking some time off like the literature suggests. It'll be interesting to see how things feels when I resume.
>
> Sorry you're battling the blues. I think many of us deal with a slump around this time of year. I don't have SAD or anything and love rainy days, but wintertime has meant hard times since the beginning of time and we must be hardwired to dread it.
>
> I got an Apollo sunlamp a few months ago and hope I remember to use it. It helps with if you don't have SAD since it supposedly makes serotonin. So does high doses of Vitamin D taken with B6. I take a professional high dose Vit D drops. Maybe that's one of the reasons we go into a slump in the dark days - not enough Vitamin D = low serotonin.
>
> I also have some TMG sitting on my countertop but never took it long enough to decide if it was for me or not. I took Sam-e for a year or so and just couldn't tell. I'd be interested in your thoughts on it. Ciao! Barbara
>
Posted by brainfade on October 29, 2005, at 15:15:03
In reply to Re: Macuna experiences » Jakeman, posted by BarbaraCat on October 25, 2005, at 19:48:11
On subject of dopamine. Consider NADH supplemented with Green Tea extract for ECGC, COMT inhibition. Does wonders for me.
NADH enhances Dopamime production while the COMT inhibition keeps Dopamine around just a little longer.
BrainF
> Hi Jake,
> You mention HGH and macuna. I read that in the data and it intrigued me because I'm using HGH by injection. My growth hormone tested really low too and it's one of the things sometimes seen in fibromyalgia. I think it's helped me alot because since I started taking it my hormones became more consistent instead of ping-ponging around. That tells me that my alot of my mood and health issues probably have something to do with a bum HPA-axis.
>
> What I'm not sure about is if it's a secretogogue or works another way. There's no sense using a secretogogue for HGH, like some of the aminos, if there's little to work with. Its like giving a woman fertility drugs when she's post-menopausal. Nothing can convince eggs that aren't there to do much of anything.
>
> I relate to not always taking supplements. I have boxes and cabinets and countertops full of bottles containing next best thing that's going to solve all my problems. They sit there and become overwhelming to deal with so they just sit there more. One more thing to maintain. But But I never miss the HGH and my thyroid and other hormones because I definitely notice when I slack off.
>
> I haven't been taking the macuna lately. I'm taking some time off like the literature suggests. It'll be interesting to see how things feels when I resume.
>
> Sorry you're battling the blues. I think many of us deal with a slump around this time of year. I don't have SAD or anything and love rainy days, but wintertime has meant hard times since the beginning of time and we must be hardwired to dread it.
>
> I got an Apollo sunlamp a few months ago and hope I remember to use it. It helps with if you don't have SAD since it supposedly makes serotonin. So does high doses of Vitamin D taken with B6. I take a professional high dose Vit D drops. Maybe that's one of the reasons we go into a slump in the dark days - not enough Vitamin D = low serotonin.
>
> I also have some TMG sitting on my countertop but never took it long enough to decide if it was for me or not. I took Sam-e for a year or so and just couldn't tell. I'd be interested in your thoughts on it. Ciao! Barbara
>
Posted by BarbaraCat on October 30, 2005, at 1:06:01
In reply to Re: Macuna experiences, posted by brainfade on October 29, 2005, at 15:15:03
I used to do NADH when I was in the throes of fibromyalgia and it gave me a nice lift. I didn't realize it was dopamine. The other supplement that helps with energy is Co-enzyme Q at about 150mg. I don't think it affects dopamine, rather it works on ATP and mitochondrial efficiency.
What kind of green tea extract? You wouldn't mean L-theanine? How much NADH do you take?
> On subject of dopamine. Consider NADH supplemented with Green Tea extract for ECGC, COMT inhibition. Does wonders for me.
>
> NADH enhances Dopamime production while the COMT inhibition keeps Dopamine around just a little longer.
>
> BrainF
>
> > Hi Jake,
>
> > You mention HGH and macuna. I read that in the data and it intrigued me because I'm using HGH by injection. My growth hormone tested really low too and it's one of the things sometimes seen in fibromyalgia. I think it's helped me alot because since I started taking it my hormones became more consistent instead of ping-ponging around. That tells me that my alot of my mood and health issues probably have something to do with a bum HPA-axis.
> >
> > What I'm not sure about is if it's a secretogogue or works another way. There's no sense using a secretogogue for HGH, like some of the aminos, if there's little to work with. Its like giving a woman fertility drugs when she's post-menopausal. Nothing can convince eggs that aren't there to do much of anything.
> >
> > I relate to not always taking supplements. I have boxes and cabinets and countertops full of bottles containing next best thing that's going to solve all my problems. They sit there and become overwhelming to deal with so they just sit there more. One more thing to maintain. But But I never miss the HGH and my thyroid and other hormones because I definitely notice when I slack off.
> >
> > I haven't been taking the macuna lately. I'm taking some time off like the literature suggests. It'll be interesting to see how things feels when I resume.
> >
> > Sorry you're battling the blues. I think many of us deal with a slump around this time of year. I don't have SAD or anything and love rainy days, but wintertime has meant hard times since the beginning of time and we must be hardwired to dread it.
> >
> > I got an Apollo sunlamp a few months ago and hope I remember to use it. It helps with if you don't have SAD since it supposedly makes serotonin. So does high doses of Vitamin D taken with B6. I take a professional high dose Vit D drops. Maybe that's one of the reasons we go into a slump in the dark days - not enough Vitamin D = low serotonin.
> >
> > I also have some TMG sitting on my countertop but never took it long enough to decide if it was for me or not. I took Sam-e for a year or so and just couldn't tell. I'd be interested in your thoughts on it. Ciao! Barbara
> >
>
>
Posted by brainfade on November 6, 2005, at 5:02:02
In reply to Re: Macuna experiences » brainfade, posted by BarbaraCat on October 30, 2005, at 1:06:01
I use BioChem Green Tea Extract. Three tablets equal 270 mg of ECGC. I take this along with Co-E1 NADA at 5 to 10 mg per day first thing in the AM. I am taking mucuna at 60mg occasionally.
Its goes like this: tyrosine--to L-dopa enhanced by NADH----to dopamine to norepinaphrine to epinephrine. COMT is involved with the degradation of all of the transmitters, hence the Green Tea. With mucuna I bi-pass the Tyrosine to L-dopa phase... Naturally this is all layman stuff..yet there is ample evidence that dopamine and serotonin etc.. by nature decreases and COMT increases as we age resulting in a slow bitching decrease in the way one gets out of bed in the morning....I'm just trying to hedge old age......lol
There is definitely something with this combination so far as clarity, energy and appetite suppression....
Good on you.
Brainfade.
> I used to do NADH when I was in the throes of fibromyalgia and it gave me a nice lift. I didn't realize it was dopamine. The other supplement that helps with energy is Co-enzyme Q at about 150mg. I don't think it affects dopamine, rather it works on ATP and mitochondrial efficiency.
>
> What kind of green tea extract? You wouldn't mean L-theanine? How much NADH do you take?
>
> > On subject of dopamine. Consider NADH supplemented with Green Tea extract for ECGC, COMT inhibition. Does wonders for me.
> >
> > NADH enhances Dopamime production while the COMT inhibition keeps Dopamine around just a little longer.
> >
> > BrainF
> >
> > > Hi Jake,
> >
> > > You mention HGH and macuna. I read that in the data and it intrigued me because I'm using HGH by injection. My growth hormone tested really low too and it's one of the things sometimes seen in fibromyalgia. I think it's helped me alot because since I started taking it my hormones became more consistent instead of ping-ponging around. That tells me that my alot of my mood and health issues probably have something to do with a bum HPA-axis.
> > >
> > > What I'm not sure about is if it's a secretogogue or works another way. There's no sense using a secretogogue for HGH, like some of the aminos, if there's little to work with. Its like giving a woman fertility drugs when she's post-menopausal. Nothing can convince eggs that aren't there to do much of anything.
> > >
> > > I relate to not always taking supplements. I have boxes and cabinets and countertops full of bottles containing next best thing that's going to solve all my problems. They sit there and become overwhelming to deal with so they just sit there more. One more thing to maintain. But But I never miss the HGH and my thyroid and other hormones because I definitely notice when I slack off.
> > >
> > > I haven't been taking the macuna lately. I'm taking some time off like the literature suggests. It'll be interesting to see how things feels when I resume.
> > >
> > > Sorry you're battling the blues. I think many of us deal with a slump around this time of year. I don't have SAD or anything and love rainy days, but wintertime has meant hard times since the beginning of time and we must be hardwired to dread it.
> > >
> > > I got an Apollo sunlamp a few months ago and hope I remember to use it. It helps with if you don't have SAD since it supposedly makes serotonin. So does high doses of Vitamin D taken with B6. I take a professional high dose Vit D drops. Maybe that's one of the reasons we go into a slump in the dark days - not enough Vitamin D = low serotonin.
> > >
> > > I also have some TMG sitting on my countertop but never took it long enough to decide if it was for me or not. I took Sam-e for a year or so and just couldn't tell. I'd be interested in your thoughts on it. Ciao! Barbara
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Posted by BarbaraCat on November 8, 2005, at 12:52:43
In reply to Re: Macuna experiences-reply, posted by brainfade on November 6, 2005, at 5:02:02
Verrry interesting. Something that could prevent the degradation of of neurotransmitters is intriguing. You've put me on a new quest. Do you have a good source for these products? I usually use IHerb for most things but haven't checked if they carry the Bio-Chem brands.
Another question, how does this interract with an anxiety condition? Or bipolar for that matter? I enjoy the brightening effect from mild stimulants but have to be careful that they don't aggravate the anxiety.
- Barbara
use BioChem Green Tea Extract. Three tablets equal 270 mg of ECGC. I take this along with Co-E1 NADA at 5 to 10 mg per day first thing in the AM. I am taking mucuna at 60mg occasionally.
>
> Its goes like this: tyrosine--to L-dopa enhanced by NADH----to dopamine to norepinaphrine to epinephrine. COMT is involved with the degradation of all of the transmitters, hence the Green Tea. With mucuna I bi-pass the Tyrosine to L-dopa phase... Naturally this is all layman stuff..yet there is ample evidence that dopamine and serotonin etc.. by nature decreases and COMT increases as we age resulting in a slow bitching decrease in the way one gets out of bed in the morning....I'm just trying to hedge old age......lol
>
> There is definitely something with this combination so far as clarity, energy and appetite suppression....
>
> Good on you.
>
> Brainfade.
>
> > I used to do NADH when I was in the throes of fibromyalgia and it gave me a nice lift. I didn't realize it was dopamine. The other supplement that helps with energy is Co-enzyme Q at about 150mg. I don't think it affects dopamine, rather it works on ATP and mitochondrial efficiency.
> >
> > What kind of green tea extract? You wouldn't mean L-theanine? How much NADH do you take?
> >
> > > On subject of dopamine. Consider NADH supplemented with Green Tea extract for ECGC, COMT inhibition. Does wonders for me.
> > >
> > > NADH enhances Dopamime production while the COMT inhibition keeps Dopamine around just a little longer.
> > >
> > > BrainF
> > >
> > > > Hi Jake,
> > >
> > > > You mention HGH and macuna. I read that in the data and it intrigued me because I'm using HGH by injection. My growth hormone tested really low too and it's one of the things sometimes seen in fibromyalgia. I think it's helped me alot because since I started taking it my hormones became more consistent instead of ping-ponging around. That tells me that my alot of my mood and health issues probably have something to do with a bum HPA-axis.
> > > >
> > > > What I'm not sure about is if it's a secretogogue or works another way. There's no sense using a secretogogue for HGH, like some of the aminos, if there's little to work with. Its like giving a woman fertility drugs when she's post-menopausal. Nothing can convince eggs that aren't there to do much of anything.
> > > >
> > > > I relate to not always taking supplements. I have boxes and cabinets and countertops full of bottles containing next best thing that's going to solve all my problems. They sit there and become overwhelming to deal with so they just sit there more. One more thing to maintain. But But I never miss the HGH and my thyroid and other hormones because I definitely notice when I slack off.
> > > >
> > > > I haven't been taking the macuna lately. I'm taking some time off like the literature suggests. It'll be interesting to see how things feels when I resume.
> > > >
> > > > Sorry you're battling the blues. I think many of us deal with a slump around this time of year. I don't have SAD or anything and love rainy days, but wintertime has meant hard times since the beginning of time and we must be hardwired to dread it.
> > > >
> > > > I got an Apollo sunlamp a few months ago and hope I remember to use it. It helps with if you don't have SAD since it supposedly makes serotonin. So does high doses of Vitamin D taken with B6. I take a professional high dose Vit D drops. Maybe that's one of the reasons we go into a slump in the dark days - not enough Vitamin D = low serotonin.
> > > >
> > > > I also have some TMG sitting on my countertop but never took it long enough to decide if it was for me or not. I took Sam-e for a year or so and just couldn't tell. I'd be interested in your thoughts on it. Ciao! Barbara
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Posted by brainfade on November 11, 2005, at 15:58:47
In reply to Re: Macuna experiences-reply » brainfade, posted by BarbaraCat on November 8, 2005, at 12:52:43
Bcat,
Sorry for the delay. I use the Bio-chem Green tea extract and I believe you can purchase it at Iherb. It provides 90mg of ECGC per tablet. White label with green lettering.
I take one to three tablet every morning with 5 to 10 mg of NADH. You have to judge which combination works for you. The more ECGC the higher the effect of COMT inhibition hence the more jittery...you may feel. I have been taking 3 tablets totaling 270 ECGC/10mg of NADH first thing in the morning for the last couple of days and it appears to be a bit heavy. Yet I still sleep real well........which is not like me... any kind of stimulate..coffee at 4 pm and I am half awake all night.
It can have an accumulative effect from day to day use...the extract. I have been experimenting with this for about a week now and have reduced the ECGC to one tablet (90mg ECGC) for today along with the NADH 10mg. I have felt wonderful all day with no appetite but this is a day to day thing....again I am fine tuning...
MAO inhibition or COMT inhibition is most likely the best way to enhance neurotransmitters and L-dopa. This appears to be a natural way.
If you would care to try I would advise dropping 1 tablet of this extract and 5 mg of NADH on an empty stomach first thing in the morning and wait awhile... and go from there.....
PS: I assume the COMT inhibition will wane after a while and require more extract so I would stagger the dose, least this is my plan. The body has a way of compensating for the comt inhibition my guess is by picking up the MAO.
Posted by zefdie on November 13, 2005, at 14:08:20
In reply to Re: Macuna hatatta » ravenstorm, posted by gromit on October 10, 2005, at 15:16:52
I have a question based on one of Larry Hoover's prior responses about 5-HTP and the danger of flooding one's stomach with serotonin before it can get to the brain. He said that for Parkinsons l-dopa is taken with a decarboxylase inhibitor to prevent the same thing happening with dopamine. I'm wondering if this might allow daily, long-term use of mucuna pruriens rather than the rotating schedule people seem to be using; also, I imagine it would enhance the effect of the mucuna.
Anyone have any ideas? Here is some info about inhibitors, quoted from a Parkinson's site:
"L-Dopa is often combined with dopa-decarboxylase inhibitors such as carbidopa or benserazide, with these formulations known as 'Co-Careldopa' and 'Co-Beneldopa' respectively."
This apparently reduces peripheral side effects from dopamine: "Dopa-decarboxylase is stored in all adrenergic nerve endings)."
It also says that dopa-decarboxylase inhibitors can't cross the blood-brain barrier and therefore you can take lower doses of l-dopa with the same effect on the brain, experiencing fewer side effects. There is a "quicker onset of action" and a "more stable clinical response."
The information comes from here:
http://www.chemsoc.org/exemplarchem/entries/2003/nottingham_russell/2.html
> > This was posted at the end of the information on the supplement barbcat is taking:
> >
> > Caution: Not intended for use by persons under the age of 18. Mucuna Pruriens is not intended for long-term use. Do not take more than 2 months continiously. The long term side effects of Mucuna has not been studied. You may take the product on a 2 months on, 2 months off basis. If you are pregnant, nursing a baby, or have a serious medical condition, seek the advice of a health professional before using this product.
> >
> > Risk and adverse effects: Researchers have found that taking over 1g of L Dopa a day can cause undesirable side effects such as nausea and vomiting, uncontrollable motions , loss of blood pressure, mental disturbance, and increased cardiac risk. It is highly suggested that you follow the recomended dosage by not exceeding 2 capsules a day, and not take it longer than a 2 months period . If you are currently on medication, please consult your physician before taking any supplement.
>
> It seems like you're supposed to cycle quite a few supplements. Not many "alternative" treatments have been really studied long term it seems.
>
> > Right now, I can't take medications because of what remeron did to my stomach, so anything that could cause vomitting or nausea I probably can't take.
>
> I haven't noticed any stomach upset myself. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think those side effects are caused specifically by mucuna, it's just how too much dopamine effects people. It says over 1 gram of l-dopa per day, even with the high octane brand the if you take the max 500 mg you actually get less than 250 mg of l-dopa. So if you take 4 times the recommended dose bad things might happen but that would be true of many other things too.
>
> Man, that almost sounded like a sales pitch. Is your doctor open minded about stuff like this? I've only had one pdoc who didn't either shrug me off or get irritated if I mentioned any kind of natural thing.
>
>
> Rick
>
Posted by BarbaraCat on November 13, 2005, at 15:27:24
In reply to Re: Macuna experiences-reply, posted by brainfade on November 11, 2005, at 15:58:47
Thanks for the info. I'll go ahead and order some green tea extract from IHerb. I'll also do a search on COMT since this is a new topic for me, but if you have any good references handy, pass them on. - Barbara
> Sorry for the delay. I use the Bio-chem Green tea extract and I believe you can purchase it at Iherb. It provides 90mg of ECGC per tablet. White label with green lettering.
>
> I take one to three tablet every morning with 5 to 10 mg of NADH. You have to judge which combination works for you. The more ECGC the higher the effect of COMT inhibition hence the more jittery...you may feel. I have been taking 3 tablets totaling 270 ECGC/10mg of NADH first thing in the morning for the last couple of days and it appears to be a bit heavy. Yet I still sleep real well........which is not like me... any kind of stimulate..coffee at 4 pm and I am half awake all night.
>
> It can have an accumulative effect from day to day use...the extract. I have been experimenting with this for about a week now and have reduced the ECGC to one tablet (90mg ECGC) for today along with the NADH 10mg. I have felt wonderful all day with no appetite but this is a day to day thing....again I am fine tuning...
>
> MAO inhibition or COMT inhibition is most likely the best way to enhance neurotransmitters and L-dopa. This appears to be a natural way.
>
> If you would care to try I would advise dropping 1 tablet of this extract and 5 mg of NADH on an empty stomach first thing in the morning and wait awhile... and go from there.....
>
> PS: I assume the COMT inhibition will wane after a while and require more extract so I would stagger the dose, least this is my plan. The body has a way of compensating for the comt inhibition my guess is by picking up the MAO.
>
>
>
>
Posted by zefdie on November 13, 2005, at 17:50:57
In reply to Re: Macuna experiences-reply » brainfade, posted by BarbaraCat on November 13, 2005, at 15:27:24
This site goes into COMT as well as the peripheral decarboxylase inhibitors I'm curious about:
http://www.epda.eu.com/medinfo-comtinhibitors.shtm
> Thanks for the info. I'll go ahead and order some green tea extract from IHerb. I'll also do a search on COMT since this is a new topic for me, but if you have any good references handy, pass them on. - Barbara
Posted by zefdie on November 13, 2005, at 18:00:32
In reply to Re: Macuna experiences-reply, posted by zefdie on November 13, 2005, at 17:50:57
Here is further info about l-dopa from natural sources (fava beans, as discussed earlier) and absorption issues:
Posted by cardinaldirection on May 27, 2006, at 15:55:32
In reply to L-dopa, beans, and dopa-decarboxylase inhibitors, posted by zefdie on November 13, 2005, at 18:00:32
i JUST stumbled upon this thread, and its like learning that this uphill battle that im fighting w/ as much pride as possible given my brain chemistry is not being faught alone! where did u guys go? i have a few questions, and possible answers as well, but would like to make sure im still not alone... =D
Posted by BarbaraCat on May 28, 2006, at 2:26:24
In reply to where did u go?, posted by cardinaldirection on May 27, 2006, at 15:55:32
You're not alone. I haven't been too active in this board lately. I was too depressed and in pain (fibromyalgia) the earlier part of the year and now that I'm feeling better, I don't have as much time to contribute.
I know I speak for everyone when I say that we're always interested in anything new to share that might help us in our quest. Keep posting.
- Barbara> i JUST stumbled upon this thread, and its like learning that this uphill battle that im fighting w/ as much pride as possible given my brain chemistry is not being faught alone! where did u guys go? i have a few questions, and possible answers as well, but would like to make sure im still not alone... =D
Posted by cardinaldirection on May 28, 2006, at 3:05:50
In reply to Re: where did u go? » cardinaldirection, posted by BarbaraCat on May 28, 2006, at 2:26:24
most importantly, ridiculously glad to hear that youre feeling better now... hate to hear of anyones pain. being busy is generally a good thing too, at least for me... doesnt leave much time for any sort of pain. your contribution is much appreciated, no matter what... even just the hello.
ive been commenting on as many posts as possible today, giving as much useful information as i can. just recently started getting thoroughly involved in psychopharmacology and my own brain chemisty (or that in general), having spent most of my life leaving it up to the 'professionals'. now deterred from that course mainly by my personal fight against strong synthetic side effects, as well as a belief in more natural and supplemental balancing methods... and straying away from the economic influence of the larger pharmaceutical companys on my doctors advice, which i notice more w/ each visit.
ive just within the past couple days prescribed myself a morning and evening 'concoction', focused on targeting my strong ocd (which i believe to be closest to the root of my 'problem'), add, and depression. given that im trying quite a few different things, could use some advice on narrowing down the ingredients. in the morning... 500mg inositol (read quite a bit recently on its use in the treatment of ocd, for it acting somewhat analogous to an ssri), 50mg coq10 (i suffer from general lethargia associate w/ depression), ~1250mg dlpa, 500mg tyrosine, some ginko and st johns wort (tinctures/extracts), and a tbsp of flax oil. in the eve... 50mg 5htp, 100mg b6, some kava, a tsp of calcium (~500mg), and a multi covering among other things my thiamine, biotin, and folate needs. also working on 'fixing' my diet and exercise habits, as well as maintaining strong doses of vit c and potassium.
actually found this thread doing research on why to take dlpa when i can just take tyrosine, given that phenylalanine is converted to tyrosine, which is then converted to dopamine (roughly). going to look for macuna tomorrow, to hopefully eliminate both!
thx in advance for, well... everything.
cd> You're not alone. I haven't been too active in this board lately. I was too depressed and in pain (fibromyalgia) the earlier part of the year and now that I'm feeling better, I don't have as much time to contribute.
>
> I know I speak for everyone when I say that we're always interested in anything new to share that might help us in our quest. Keep posting.
> - Barbara
>
> > i JUST stumbled upon this thread, and its like learning that this uphill battle that im fighting w/ as much pride as possible given my brain chemistry is not being faught alone! where did u guys go? i have a few questions, and possible answers as well, but would like to make sure im still not alone... =D
>
>
Posted by cardinaldirection on May 28, 2006, at 15:56:17
In reply to Re: where did u go?, posted by cardinaldirection on May 28, 2006, at 3:05:50
well, night two, and i actually slept last night/this morn... as usual, i was up most of the night, and didnt get to sleep until this morn. first time in months i woke up feeling like i slept well enough to recharge some energy... actually dreamt (although the dream/s were extremely odd, not the usual defragmentation of the previous day that im used to, if any). im associating that to the 100mg of b6, probably cut the dose in half. normally i suffer from insomnia, finding sleep well after the sun has already come up (if u can call it sleep), and being alarmed when i wake up, that i actually did sleep. the strangest part of the night, in that i did sleep well, was that i was up quite a few times throughout the night w/ bad diarrhea. im associating this w/ two things... mainly the new introduction of all these supplements into my system within the past 72 hrs, as well as the med-rare burger that i had for dinner last night (dont usually eat much red meat at all!). going to take a day off from the 'concoctions' to let my body adjust some, and start again tomorrow morn.
Posted by cardinaldirection on May 28, 2006, at 17:13:26
In reply to Re: where did u go?, posted by cardinaldirection on May 28, 2006, at 15:56:17
im also noticing slight sparatic piercing chest pains... any ideas whats causing em?
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 30, 2006, at 8:06:19
In reply to Re: where did u go? - chest pain, posted by cardinaldirection on May 28, 2006, at 17:13:26
> im also noticing slight sparatic piercing chest pains... any ideas whats causing em?
In the posts I've just read, you make no mention of minerals, except potassium.
Zinc? Selenium? Magnesium? Chromium? Etc.
You could just need calcium and vitamin D, vis a vis piercing muscle pain. Nonetheless, if you haven't had a doctor check your heart function recently, i.e. you would then know you have a clean bill of health, your chest pain might be the only warning you'll ever get, of impending heart problems. Get a 12-lead ECG done. Maybe an exercise stress test.
Lar
Posted by cardinaldirection on May 30, 2006, at 17:24:28
In reply to Re: where did u go? - chest pain » cardinaldirection, posted by Larry Hoover on May 30, 2006, at 8:06:19
my multi covers quite a few minerals, and the calcium supplement im taking also has a few. honestly trying to stray away from most metals, as i think i might have an overabundance of them... and also having read that too many metals in my diet as a youth may have played a part in contributing to the development of the neurochemical disorders that i suffer from now.
as i said, im taking a calcium supplement, and both it and my multi cover quite a bit of d. im also in really good shape, and i do know that my heart is in the same. didnt notice these pains until starting this supplement diet a few days ago... and after a bit more research, am attributing them to the evening 5htp. i think my metabolism may not be strong enough to warrant a 'shake' every morning and evening, but rather spread out every other day or so... at least until my body grows a bit more accustomed.
thx... cd> In the posts I've just read, you make no mention of minerals, except potassium.
>
> Zinc? Selenium? Magnesium? Chromium? Etc.
>
> You could just need calcium and vitamin D, vis a vis piercing muscle pain. Nonetheless, if you haven't had a doctor check your heart function recently, i.e. you would then know you have a clean bill of health, your chest pain might be the only warning you'll ever get, of impending heart problems. Get a 12-lead ECG done. Maybe an exercise stress test.
>
> Lar
>
>
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 6, 2006, at 6:18:28
In reply to Re: where did u go? - chest pain » Larry Hoover, posted by cardinaldirection on May 30, 2006, at 17:24:28
> my multi covers quite a few minerals, and the calcium supplement im taking also has a few. honestly trying to stray away from most metals, as i think i might have an overabundance of them... and also having read that too many metals in my diet as a youth may have played a part in contributing to the development of the neurochemical disorders that i suffer from now.
There's metals, and then there's metals. Lead is a bad metal. Zinc is a good metal (in reasonable amounts). Mercury is a bad metal. Chromium is a good metal, in certain amounts.
You'd need to be more specific, before I can get the picture.
> as i said, im taking a calcium supplement, and both it and my multi cover quite a bit of d. im also in really good shape, and i do know that my heart is in the same. didnt notice these pains until starting this supplement diet a few days ago... and after a bit more research, am attributing them to the evening 5htp.
5-HTP can go straight to serotonin, in the blood stream. That can cause cardiac changes. What do they call the peripheral decarboxylase inhibitor, carbidopa? You may need to take an enzyme inhibitor, to get the psych effects you're looking for.
> i think my metabolism may not be strong enough to warrant a 'shake' every morning and evening, but rather spread out every other day or so... at least until my body grows a bit more accustomed.
> thx... cdI'm totally in support of intuition. I'm totally in support of taking supps in pulses. I think it's better, actually, to do pulses. It's harder to manage optimally, because you're not doing the same thing, every day.
Lar
Posted by BarbaraCat on June 6, 2006, at 11:45:54
In reply to Re: where did u go? - chest pain » cardinaldirection, posted by Larry Hoover on June 6, 2006, at 6:18:28
Don't remember, but have you had your thyroid checked? Too little or too much can cause heart symptoms.
Also, good ol' stress is a major contributor to heart distress. I ended up carted by ambulance to the ICU last year because my heart was behaving badly with all symptoms of an attack. Tight squeezing pains, fluttering, arms going numb, jaw pain. Every test possible was run and showed that my heart was in good shape but my blood alkalinity and CO2 were off.
I have fibromyalgia and that causes weird symptoms, but my belief now is that my breathing was wildly disregulated. Forgetting to breathe, breath holding, shallow breathing, sighing alot. This is a recipe for activating the fight or flight response. Plus, I have sleep apnea and had quit wearing that dang 'Darothy Vader' CPAP mask, as my husband refers to it.
So consider hyperventilation syndrome and especially sleep apnea which is known to affect the heart. Suggest it to your docs cause you'll need a sleep study to confirm the apnea, which you may not realize you have.
Since getting a more comfortable CPAP mask, I wear it and it's made a huge difference. The breath and regenerative sleep are key in all of this.
- Barbara
> > my multi covers quite a few minerals, and the calcium supplement im taking also has a few. honestly trying to stray away from most metals, as i think i might have an overabundance of them... and also having read that too many metals in my diet as a youth may have played a part in contributing to the development of the neurochemical disorders that i suffer from now.
>
Posted by cardinaldirection on June 7, 2006, at 3:30:33
In reply to Re: where did u go? - chest pain » cardinaldirection, posted by Larry Hoover on June 6, 2006, at 6:18:28
i actually did quite a bit of reading into carbidopa as an answer to this problem, but was deterred by the strong possibility of relatively serious side effects of combining it w/ 5htp. do you know of any other decarboxylase inhibitors; or perhaps its the combination of a decarboxylase inhibitor in general, and 5htp, causing the side effects? will do a bit more research into this... thank you!
cd
>
> 5-HTP can go straight to serotonin, in the blood stream. That can cause cardiac changes. What do they call the peripheral decarboxylase inhibitor, carbidopa? You may need to take an enzyme inhibitor, to get the psych effects you're looking for.
>
Posted by cardinaldirection on June 7, 2006, at 3:38:06
In reply to Re: where did u go? - chest pain, posted by BarbaraCat on June 6, 2006, at 11:45:54
my life has been ridiculously stressful as of late (severe ocd plays a large part in this)... something i am working on in many ways, knowing how it factors in cumulatively w/ my condition. will definitely look into sleep apnea, as i was under the impression that my horrible (i cant stress how bad) sleep patterns were just a syptom of other problems, instead of perhaps the cause.
ty... cd.> Don't remember, but have you had your thyroid checked? Too little or too much can cause heart symptoms.
>
> Also, good ol' stress is a major contributor to heart distress. I ended up carted by ambulance to the ICU last year because my heart was behaving badly with all symptoms of an attack. Tight squeezing pains, fluttering, arms going numb, jaw pain. Every test possible was run and showed that my heart was in good shape but my blood alkalinity and CO2 were off.
>
> I have fibromyalgia and that causes weird symptoms, but my belief now is that my breathing was wildly disregulated. Forgetting to breathe, breath holding, shallow breathing, sighing alot. This is a recipe for activating the fight or flight response. Plus, I have sleep apnea and had quit wearing that dang 'Darothy Vader' CPAP mask, as my husband refers to it.
>
> So consider hyperventilation syndrome and especially sleep apnea which is known to affect the heart. Suggest it to your docs cause you'll need a sleep study to confirm the apnea, which you may not realize you have.
>
> Since getting a more comfortable CPAP mask, I wear it and it's made a huge difference. The breath and regenerative sleep are key in all of this.
>
> - Barbara
>
>
> > > my multi covers quite a few minerals, and the calcium supplement im taking also has a few. honestly trying to stray away from most metals, as i think i might have an overabundance of them... and also having read that too many metals in my diet as a youth may have played a part in contributing to the development of the neurochemical disorders that i suffer from now.
> >
>
Posted by zefdie on June 19, 2006, at 2:29:08
In reply to Re: where did u go? - chest pain » cardinaldirection, posted by Larry Hoover on June 6, 2006, at 6:18:28
> 5-HTP can go straight to serotonin, in the blood stream. That can cause cardiac changes. What do they call the peripheral decarboxylase inhibitor, carbidopa? You may need to take an enzyme inhibitor, to get the psych effects you're looking for.
Hi Larry, I had a question I thought you might have ideas about.What do you think of sublingual 5-htp? There are 50 mg sublingual 5-htp supplements with pyridoxal 5'-phosphate. I'm wondering if taking 5-htp this way is even more dangerous for the heart than is taking a 5-htp capsule. I thought it might be a way to get more 5-htp into the brain rather than the stomach, but I don't know how quickly 5-htp converts to serotonin and if all I'm really doing by taking it this way is getting lots of serotonin into my bloodstream.
I've found that this way of taking 5-htp works really well for my depression but I want to be safe as well.
Tryptophan has limited effect for me. I suppose I could try pharmaceutical grade. I so prefer 5-htp but I don't want to screw with my heart.
Here's one study comparing 5-htp with a decarboxylase inhibitor and with 5-htp without. It found no difference in efficacy:
Neuropsychobiology. 1988;20(1):28-35.
L-5-hydroxytryptophan alone and in combination with a peripheral decarboxylase inhibitor in the treatment of depression.
Zmilacher K, Battegay R, Gastpar M. Psychiatric University Outpatient Department, Basel, Switzerland.
In an open study 25 depressed patients were treated with L-5-hydroxytryptophan (L-5-HTP) either alone or in combination with a peripheral decarboxylase inhibitor. The therapeutic efficacy of L-5-HTP was considered as equal to that of traditional antidepressants. There was no difference in efficacy between the two treatments. Best results were obtained in patients with an anxious-agitated depressive syndrome and in patients with an endogenous depression if the illness had been acute. The onset of action was rapid (within 3 or 5 days). Gastrointestinal side effects proved to be dose-dependent and occurred more frequently in patients receiving L-5-HTP alone, whereas psychopathological side effects (especially acute anxiety states) have mainly been reported in patients receiving L-5-HTP in combination with a peripheral decarboxylase inhibitor.
PMID: 3265988 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Posted by versagus on February 20, 2008, at 16:54:07
In reply to Re: Tyrosine vs. Phenylalanine experiences? » gromit, posted by barbaracat on September 28, 2005, at 13:06:34
Taking 5htp with L-dopa are OK because both are going to cross the blood brain barrier through the same enzyme. That way you don't foster a depletion of one or the other. If you want more of a certain neurotransmitter say Dopamine, then take more tyrosine. Thats how it works in the blood. Both proteins are present, just one usually has the dominance.
On another note, I've tried a supplement called Craniyums, and I'm surprised ive never seen more info online about it because I saw two of my family members go from stressed out to feeling great in under 20 minutes.
I believe the reason for this is because it is the only supplement known that uses the sublingual pathway to reach the brain. And apparently it works. The company brands it as a "dieting aid" to replenish neurotransmitters. Probly to avoid flack from greedy drug corporations.
This is the end of the thread.
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