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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 13 to 37 of 52. Go back in thread:
Posted by zero on April 27, 2004, at 22:54:39
In reply to Re: Jury's In: GABA, posted by GabaGirl on April 25, 2004, at 7:12:31
I get "activation" from Inositol alone.
GABA Calm does the same thing to me.
L-Tyrosine makes me feel very crazy (probably hypomania).
L-Taurine I find very calming; helps w. anxiety and agitation.
I like Twinlab's GABA Plus (GABA, Inositol and Niacinamide) - I find it very calming.
Posted by GabaGirl on April 28, 2004, at 10:12:13
In reply to Re: Jury's In: GABA » GabaGirl, posted by zero on April 27, 2004, at 22:54:39
> I get "activation" from Inositol alone.
Do you take inositol with choline then?
>
> GABA Calm does the same thing to me.
>
> L-Tyrosine makes me feel very crazy (probably hypomania).
>
> L-Taurine I find very calming; helps w. anxiety and agitation.
>
> I like Twinlab's GABA Plus (GABA, Inositol and Niacinamide) - I find it very calming.GABA Calm is helping me a bit, but will also check out the above eventually.
All these supplements are getting expensive for my wallet!
Best,
GabaGirl
Posted by LOOPS on April 28, 2004, at 10:29:30
In reply to Re: Jury's In: GABA, posted by GabaGirl on April 28, 2004, at 10:12:13
>
>
> > I get "activation" from Inositol alone.
>
> Do you take inositol with choline then?
>
> >
> > GABA Calm does the same thing to me.
> >
> > L-Tyrosine makes me feel very crazy (probably hypomania).
> >
> > L-Taurine I find very calming; helps w. anxiety and agitation.
> >
> > I like Twinlab's GABA Plus (GABA, Inositol and Niacinamide) - I find it very calming.
>
> GABA Calm is helping me a bit, but will also check out the above eventually.
>
> All these supplements are getting expensive for my wallet!
>
> Best,
>
> GabaGirl
>
>L-tyrosine is a dopamine precursor. I get the same thing. I am VERY sensitive to dopamine-promoting stuff.
This morning I took my usual 500mg inositol (with 500mg niacinamide) and I already feel too hyper. This is bizarre, as when I take it at night (with gaba pill) I don't get this reaction. In fact I can take 1,500mg IF I take the gaba and not react like this. A couple of nights ago I tried taking 1,500mg inositol early in the evening, WITHOUT gaba. (By the way if I take niacinamide without inositol, I can end up feeling quite low and depressed).
Result - I was in a bit of a mess. I suddenly got all euphoric and felt quite emotionally wobbly to say the least. Sometimes I think I really am bipolar.
They say inositol and lithium shouldn't be taken together, as they cancel each other out??
Right now I'm thinking I'll go with lith orotate in the day and inositol at night (have been taking lith orotate for ages now).
I'm also going to go back on the picamilon as it's been a 3 week break now, and I don't want to be spending a whole truck-load of money trying to find something that works as well. Hopefully seeing as I've taken a break from it it will begin to work again now. I may have to supplement it with more niacinamide though.
I am a little worried that I have destroyed my brain's own ability to make it's own gaba from taking the picamilon too long. Is this possible??? Maybe I will take some l-glutamine as well, to produce more gaba.
Oh what a mess....
Loops
Posted by LOOPS on May 3, 2004, at 19:44:04
In reply to Re: Jury's In: GABA » GabaGirl, posted by LOOPS on April 28, 2004, at 10:29:30
Just wanted to update a few more of my experiences (in case anyone is still out there???) -
L-glutamine BAD IDEA. Worked the first night, then this morning had exactly the opposite effect. Was not calmed. Felt crazy crazy.
Eventually found some True Calm caps which contain taurine and gaba and a few other bits and pieces. Took one of these and back to just below 'normal' again.
I refuse to give up on the inositol - without it I am just a depressed mess. It literally just takes one 500mg capsule to bring me out of depression. AND it helps with sleep. PLUS my hair is looking way thicker, my eczema clearing up dramatically and acne going away since going on this.
I am waiting for the taurine to arrive in the mail. I'm really hoping this will help balance things out a little more. I am so sensitive to things that I will probably start out with half a capsule and see how that goes.
Madness. Total madness. It probably doesn't help that I am at a very difficult turning point in my life anyway.
Anyone still there???
Loops
Posted by Escher Dementian on May 4, 2004, at 5:02:00
In reply to Re: Jury's In: GABA, posted by LOOPS on May 3, 2004, at 19:44:04
I'm still here with you, LOOPS :-)
Gosh, i hear you and can relate to the madness you feel. i feel bad that you're having a rough time. i admire your 'hanging in there' with intelligence and determination, even though it may not seem that way to you. Sadly, i think the nature of all "turning point" times in our lives, most often rotates on crisis before our life achieves a sensibility again. When GABA Calm was reccommended to me by a pdoc, i was A MESS.
I really enjoy your posts, and am grateful for the information you share with us. We're sortof in this search together, aren't we?L-glutamine is a BAD IDEA ? Thank you for the warning. i found the same thing happened when i tried L-phenylalanine: WATCH OUT! It felt good the first day i took it, then the next, made me crazy and overstimulated.
Please keep posting and let me know how you are doing when you get your taurine, and what you think of it. Did you say you are in Brazil? (forgive me if my memory is faulty. Sometimes i feel i only have 2 braincells to rub together to try to get a spark!) It must be very challenging to have to send through the mail for things? i admire your patience and ability.
i wish you the very best in what you are going through...~Escher
P.S. Have you ever seen the chinese character/word for "crisis, or turning point"? ~It's a little man dancing on the edge of a cliff looking at the view. The chinese define the word as: "dangerous opportunity" !
Posted by GabaGirl on May 4, 2004, at 8:09:17
In reply to Re: Jury's In: GABA, posted by LOOPS on May 3, 2004, at 19:44:04
Hi:
I'm still around and following this thread. I feel the same way about Inositol. If I don't take it, my energy drops immensely and I get very depressed in the afternoon/evenings.
The GABA Calm seems helpful for calming me down, but may be overkill now. I didn't need to take it today so far. Good sign?
I found a really interesting article on anxiety and depression/bipolar from the Mcman site. Makes it seem even more so that "calmative" supplements and herbs like GABA, taurine, passionflower -- one of my faves -- are especially helpful to us who may have both anxiety and depression/bipolar.
Here is the link: http://www.mcmanweb.com/anxiety.htm
Best,GabaGirl
Posted by LOOPS on May 5, 2004, at 12:43:25
In reply to Re: Jury's In: GABA » LOOPS, posted by Escher Dementian on May 4, 2004, at 5:02:00
> I'm still here with you, LOOPS :-)
>
> Gosh, i hear you and can relate to the madness you feel. i feel bad that you're having a rough time. i admire your 'hanging in there' with intelligence and determination, even though it may not seem that way to you. Sadly, i think the nature of all "turning point" times in our lives, most often rotates on crisis before our life achieves a sensibility again. When GABA Calm was reccommended to me by a pdoc, i was A MESS.
> I really enjoy your posts, and am grateful for the information you share with us. We're sortof in this search together, aren't we?
>
> L-glutamine is a BAD IDEA ? Thank you for the warning. i found the same thing happened when i tried L-phenylalanine: WATCH OUT! It felt good the first day i took it, then the next, made me crazy and overstimulated.
>
> Please keep posting and let me know how you are doing when you get your taurine, and what you think of it. Did you say you are in Brazil? (forgive me if my memory is faulty. Sometimes i feel i only have 2 braincells to rub together to try to get a spark!) It must be very challenging to have to send through the mail for things? i admire your patience and ability.
>
> i wish you the very best in what you are going through...
>
> ~Escher
>
> P.S. Have you ever seen the chinese character/word for "crisis, or turning point"? ~It's a little man dancing on the edge of a cliff looking at the view. The chinese define the word as: "dangerous opportunity" !
Hiya -no, I live in Chile, but was visiting some friends in Brazil a couple of months back. Luckily I can get stuff sent here from N America - have found some good websites as well.
Well I guess I should put my rave in here as well about the l-tryptophan I started night before last! I started a small dosage of 600mg and really felt almost instantly better. What a deal - because this stuff was cheap as well.
So now I have (I hope) a good system running combining B3, inositol, l-tryptophan, mag chelate and a few other things into the mix (eg fish oil).
Am still taking the gaba, but only at night, as the l-tryptophan seems to be really smashing this hypo problem to pieces, (along with the niacinamide etc).
Last night i could actually talk sensibly and openly to some friends without frantically searching for some alchohol to be myself.
This is going to be a very interesting journey. I have an inkling that the tryptophan is fixing the serotonin deficiency (eating high protein followed by carbs few hours later never had THIS much effect) - maybe I will have another problem further down the road with regard to dopamine though. We'll have to see.
Have you tried l-tyrosine?? I once tried acetyl-l-tyrosine and it was very powerful (sending me hyper again). I'm not sure I like things that bypass the blood brain barrier (apart from ALC which seems to be fine in small dosages). James South recommends taking l-tyrosine with l-tryptophan if the depression is apathetic. This means if I go down that road once more, I may add in a smidgen of l-tyrosine. But I have to be VERY careful not to push it too much the other way.
Never felt like this (i.e. normal, easy-going) with 5-htp - tried it so many times.
I like the Chinese definition of crisis! That so describes what I'm going through right now. I need to have my head screwed on right to cope as well! (It's that kind of decision). FREAK OUT! That's what my brain does when put under any emotional pressure - thus I am inclined to get dizzy and fall OFF the edge of the cliff without even getting to decide whether to jump one way or the other!
At least life is never boring. I always think that when it starts to get really crazy and I can't cope.
Loops
Posted by LOOPS on May 5, 2004, at 12:52:26
In reply to Re: Jury's In: GABA, posted by GabaGirl on May 4, 2004, at 8:09:17
> Hi:
>
> I'm still around and following this thread. I feel the same way about Inositol. If I don't take it, my energy drops immensely and I get very depressed in the afternoon/evenings.
>
> The GABA Calm seems helpful for calming me down, but may be overkill now. I didn't need to take it today so far. Good sign?
>
> I found a really interesting article on anxiety and depression/bipolar from the Mcman site. Makes it seem even more so that "calmative" supplements and herbs like GABA, taurine, passionflower -- one of my faves -- are especially helpful to us who may have both anxiety and depression/bipolar.
>
> Here is the link: http://www.mcmanweb.com/anxiety.htm
>
>
> Best,
>
> GabaGirl
Hi GabaGirl -see my above post on l-tryptophan. It's really working for me. I don't know how long I will take it for though - depends what long term effects there are (if I go too much the other way). It also seems to have sorted out the inositol dilemmma in that I am no longer too activated by it.
Hang in there and take whatever you have to, that's my motto. It's all better than meds.
Loops
Posted by GabaGirl on May 5, 2004, at 13:06:26
In reply to Re: Jury's In: GABA » GabaGirl, posted by LOOPS on May 5, 2004, at 12:52:26
Hi Loops:
Thanks for your reply! I haven't yet tried l-tryptophan but used to eat turkey and turkey burgers a lot to calm myself down on high anxiety days. It worked fairly well. (Beer is also nice or a margarita... :))
Where did you find the l-tryptophan? I would like to try it. Though so far this week I haven't even needed the GABA Calm the or even my passionflower or rescue remedy. Sleep has really, really helped.
I still take some meds, but minimal amounts - prozac, neurontin and zyprexa. The add in's like inositol, fish oil, B-vitamin and diet changes have helped me the most I think.
So are you off meds altogether? And where in Chile are you? I used to date a Chilean artist who told me about it and have always wanted to visit there.
I'm up much further north in the Washington, DC area. Crazy place to live in these days...
As I say the high anxiety is mostly gone of late -- went through the worst of it perhaps the last few weeks. I've have PTSD from a brutal attack over 10 years ago that happened on May 1st. Now that it's past that anniversary and dreading it coming, I'm feeling much, much better!
Best,
GabaGirl
> > Hi:
> >
> > I'm still around and following this thread. I feel the same way about Inositol. If I don't take it, my energy drops immensely and I get very depressed in the afternoon/evenings.
> >
> > The GABA Calm seems helpful for calming me down, but may be overkill now. I didn't need to take it today so far. Good sign?
> >
> > I found a really interesting article on anxiety and depression/bipolar from the Mcman site. Makes it seem even more so that "calmative" supplements and herbs like GABA, taurine, passionflower -- one of my faves -- are especially helpful to us who may have both anxiety and depression/bipolar.
> >
> > Here is the link: http://www.mcmanweb.com/anxiety.htm
> >
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > GabaGirl
>
>
> Hi GabaGirl -
>
> see my above post on l-tryptophan. It's really working for me. I don't know how long I will take it for though - depends what long term effects there are (if I go too much the other way). It also seems to have sorted out the inositol dilemmma in that I am no longer too activated by it.
>
> Hang in there and take whatever you have to, that's my motto. It's all better than meds.
>
> Loops
Posted by LOOPS on May 5, 2004, at 17:15:24
In reply to Re: Jury's In: GABA, posted by GabaGirl on May 5, 2004, at 13:06:26
Hiya again -
The stuff I buy I found out about from searching psychobabble - somebody recommended the site - not sure if I'm allowed to post it here, so maybe you do the search first on tryptophan and if that fails email me (LOUISA192@YAHOO.CO.UK).
It's like $12 for 4 ounces, 90% pure - really cheap and effective.
I'm so sorry about your past ordeal - these things really **** us up profoundly.
I have never been through what you have, but I have spent the last 28 years of my life suffering from anorexia, bulimia, social anxiety, low self-esteem etc etc and have made so many huge mistakes because of how I bad I feel. It all came to a crux about a year ago when my self-medicating with alchohol, pot, and endless nicotine gum and cigarettes just didn't work anymore AT ALL. This threw me into a mad panic as I just couldn't get a grip on anything. Nothing made ANY sense, and I felt so helpless. I was also completely alone due to my social anxiety - despite liking other people it would just stress me way out being around anybody, which was a shame, as people seem to like me too (how ironic).
I even have an amazing supportive husband, so felt really guilty for not doing better - although our relationship has been really tested due to my mood swings and impulsive behaviour. Sometimes I am not sure I can ever really learn to be loved.
Oh nothing like a good ramble is there!
I count myself very lucky I never got to go down the road of meds - actually that's wrong - when I initially started taking St Johns Wort, I ended up at my docs begging for emergency benzos to help me sleep. I knew they were dangerous, but the SJW had lifted me so far out of depression that I didn't want to give it up - but needed sleep. I never took them frequently, but did a few times a week (plus sometimes ambien).
Now after 2 weeks (is it more?) of being off these completely (and managing), I am wondering about re-bound anxiety I was getting after them (I would sleep, but wake up with ever-growing anxiety).
It has not been cheap going down this road of supplements. Lots of things worked a bit, then didn't, some worked better in combination (expense gaining) - and it takes ages to work out what is really WORTH it, and what isn't.
For instance, I tried L-theanine - it worked for a few weeks, but then I found I got ANXIOUS with it (?).
As I said before, the 5-htp was very weird, and never consistent in its effects.
I think after reading a few books I came to the conclusion to stop messing with my brain chemicals and focus on an orthomolecular approach - feeding with vitamins. This way I figure my body won't fight what I'm doing.
Today my GABA calm arrived. I note again it has l-tyrosine in it? If I want to take this in the evening will it stop me sleeping I wonder??
Well finally I am working again (I teach the piano but recently I have been trying to get some composition done as well and it's impossible with feeling so anxious).
Chile is an excellent place to live. I live in La Serena in the iv region (slap bang in the middle,above Santiago). If only the sea wasn't so damned cold!
Loops
Posted by BarbaraCat on May 8, 2004, at 2:33:42
In reply to Re: Jury's In: GABA » GabaGirl, posted by LOOPS on May 5, 2004, at 17:15:24
Hi,
You can get it from 'pet vitamin' sources. Here's one I use:http://www.biochemicals.com/productinfo.php3?id=22
I don't take it all the time, but L-tryp works pretty well for my muscle pain associated with fibromyalgia and sometimes for depressed anxiety and helps me sleep when I'm going through a wired phase. More prophylactic than an actual antidepressant. 5-HTP didn't do a thing except make me more depressed. Apparently, 5-HTP goes directly to the brain bypassing l-tryptophan's preliminary step which acts on serotonin receptor sites in the muscles and gut. So much anxiety is associtiated with gut/vagus nerve constriction so there might be an important clue here.
Posted by GabaGirl on May 9, 2004, at 5:34:03
In reply to Tryptophan source, posted by BarbaraCat on May 8, 2004, at 2:33:42
Hey:
Thanks for the tryptophan source! I will look into it. It may be helpful for me since I have a lot of depressed anxiety and wired anxiety at times too.
Good source (cheap too! Jarrow - $7.50 per bottle for 227 grams) for inositol:
http://wholesalesupplementstore.com/inositolpowder.html
Best,
GabaGirl
Posted by GabaGirl on May 9, 2004, at 6:00:33
In reply to Re: Jury's In: GABA » GabaGirl, posted by LOOPS on May 5, 2004, at 17:15:24
Hiya Loops:
I read your message on Friday and sooo wanted to take some time to reply, but was very busy at work. I may write to you off line too as we have much in common.
I can so much identify with what you have been through and your situation also reminds me of my aunt's who is also bipolar with OCD I think, and lots of anxiety issues. She is unfortunately recently divorced from her husband now after going through a lot of rehab for alcohol and pot use and now working for a rehab facility in Nashville.
As for myself, I still smoke cigs to excess and have had problems with alcohol abuse in the past, and present really though it's been less and less of a problem.
I still feel I need to take my meds in addition to the supplements and saw my pdoc/therapist yesterday who upped my prozac to 15 mg from 5. It was a bit of a downer ironically and actually was very stressful seeing her to be honest. I wonder if her approach to "therapy" is right for me and if it is doing me more harm than good. Something for me to think about... I feel that things like meditation, Tai Chi, and life coaching might be much more helpful to me at this time. Anyone try those or similar alternative therapies???
I also find I am very drawn to the "physician heal thyself" model, and have had so much success with changing my diet and adding supplements, I am taking the orthmolecular approach more and more seriously. Much more I need to learn about it too!
This board has especially been helpful to me. (More helpful than my pdoc honestly. :) ) Sometimes I feel ready to pull a Donald Trump and tell her "Your fired!" I've been considering it....
But I do need someone to monitor me and write scripts since I'm not ready to try going without my meds. Been there, done that and it was bad, bad bad...
It's great you are able to find combinations of supplements that work for you without meds. Perhaps I will eventually too??
Best,
GabaGirl
Posted by BarbaraCat on May 11, 2004, at 12:30:53
In reply to Re: Tryptophan source - Inositol source added, posted by GabaGirl on May 9, 2004, at 5:34:03
Hey, that is a good price for inositol! I've been using www.iherb.com for most of my supplements, but this source has better prices. Thanks. Oh, BTW, myo-inositol is the preferred form for mood disorders. This Jarrow powder is the myo form, but I don't know if most people are aware there are differences in inositols.
>
> Good source (cheap too! Jarrow - $7.50 per bottle for 227 grams) for inositol:
>
> http://wholesalesupplementstore.com/inositolpowder.html
>
> Best,
>
> GabaGirl
Posted by LOOPS on May 14, 2004, at 9:28:10
In reply to Re: Tryptophan source - Inositol source added » GabaGirl, posted by BarbaraCat on May 11, 2004, at 12:30:53
Hello everybody again!
Have a dilemma. Is it 'ok' to take the l-tryptophan at the same time as GABA (in pill form) - or will the GABA 'fight' with the tryptophan to get to the brain? Also, is eating bread + honey ok to eat with all this (all my pills need some food or I feel sick).
Am doing pretty well this week, hoping this lasts...
Posted by BarbaraCat on May 14, 2004, at 17:53:30
In reply to can I take tryptophan at same time as gaba?, posted by LOOPS on May 14, 2004, at 9:28:10
> Is it 'ok' to take the l-tryptophan at the same time as GABA (in pill form) - or will the GABA 'fight' with the tryptophan to get to the brain?
**Shouldn't be a problem since they work on different pathways.
>>Also, is eating bread + honey ok to eat with all this (all my pills need some food or I feel sick).
>
**Yes, carbs are good to eat with tryp and other amino acids. Protein can compete with aminos, however. Vitamin B6 and Vitamin C taken with increase availability. L-taurine is a good relaxing amino to look into for balancing electrical potential, somewhat like an anti-convulsant.
Posted by LOOPS on May 14, 2004, at 19:04:44
In reply to Re: can I take tryptophan at same time as gaba? » LOOPS, posted by BarbaraCat on May 14, 2004, at 17:53:30
> > Is it 'ok' to take the l-tryptophan at the same time as GABA (in pill form) - or will the GABA 'fight' with the tryptophan to get to the brain?
>
> **Shouldn't be a problem since they work on different pathways.
>
> >>Also, is eating bread + honey ok to eat with all this (all my pills need some food or I feel sick).
> >
> **Yes, carbs are good to eat with tryp and other amino acids. Protein can compete with aminos, however. Vitamin B6 and Vitamin C taken with increase availability. L-taurine is a good relaxing amino to look into for balancing electrical potential, somewhat like an anti-convulsant.
>Presumably I should take the Taurine at a different time from the tryptophan, or does this again work on a different pathway? I have got a bottle (500mg) which I haven't started yet. However as I am vegan and a woman I think Taurine would be a very good adjunct (apparently estrogen depletes Taurine, and although Taurine can be made from methionine and cysteine, additional taurine is available in meat which I don't get).
Is Taurine good to take before bed - will it add to the deeper sleep I get from inositol/mag/tryptophan/gaba??
By the way, regarding brands, I have noticed a difference between the NOW niacinamide and the Solgar - the NOW brand gave me a bit of a headache, which went away when I started the Solgar. Odd huh?
Thanks - you seem very knowledgeable about all of this!
Loops
Posted by GabaGirl on May 16, 2004, at 7:02:13
In reply to Re: Tryptophan source - Inositol source added » GabaGirl, posted by BarbaraCat on May 11, 2004, at 12:30:53
Thanks for the information on myo-inositol. I did not know that! Glad Jarrow is the right form.
Still have not taken mine this am, but man has it helped with depression and fatique for me. Over the past few weeks since starting it, my energy has returned to more normal levels I have not experienced for months now!
I think the celluar detox and liver function improvement advertised on the Jarrow label is must be helping too.
Best,
GabaGirl
Posted by LOOPS on May 16, 2004, at 10:09:34
In reply to Re: Tryptophan source - Inositol source added, posted by GabaGirl on May 16, 2004, at 7:02:13
> Thanks for the information on myo-inositol. I did not know that! Glad Jarrow is the right form.
>
> Still have not taken mine this am, but man has it helped with depression and fatique for me. Over the past few weeks since starting it, my energy has returned to more normal levels I have not experienced for months now!
>
> I think the celluar detox and liver function improvement advertised on the Jarrow label is must be helping too.
>
> Best,
>
> GabaGirlHow much inositol do you take in one go GabaGirl? I just upped my dose to a couple of grams as I feel I can now tolerate it better.
Loops
Posted by GabaGirl on May 16, 2004, at 11:13:07
In reply to inositol, posted by LOOPS on May 16, 2004, at 10:09:34
Hi LOOPS:
I'm not measuring it exactly, but would estimate around 2-3 grams in the am, and sometimes another gram or two in the afternoon.
Clinical dosages were more like 8-12 with even 20 being considered. That is WAY too high for me.
If I feel too much energy, I lower it the next day, too little, up it a bit. Playing by ear right now... But think I may tolerate and need more in the winter when I am most depressed.
Best,
GabaGirl
Posted by BarbaraCat on May 16, 2004, at 14:44:45
In reply to Re: inositol, posted by GabaGirl on May 16, 2004, at 11:13:07
The Jarrow powder is 600mg per 1/4 tsp, so 1 Tbs is 7.2 grams. Do you know if am or pm or split dosing is preferred? I take 1 Tbs in the morning. I haven't figured out if it energizes me or not, but morning seems to work out best.
About 4 years I started reacting terribly to SSRI's and coming down with the worst of my fibromyalgia symptoms. I added inositol and felt it was starting to make a difference. Then my pdoc and I suspected I might be bi-polar and started on lithium and then added Lamictal. I read that inositol interferred with lithium's action and so stopped inositol. Lam and lithium worked pretty well then pooped and I was getting pre Stevens-Johnson (which I eventually got but from another med) so I quit everthing.
Since stopping all prescription meds this past January I've gone back to inositol and fish oil and SAM-e as my primary mood meds.
Anyhoo, once again I'm feeling the beneficial effects of inositol and fish oil on my mood. Inositol does not bring on any hypomania at all. I think my bipolar depression/craziness was due to brain and body going haywire from longtime stress, and these nutrients are bringing things back to balance. And you bet, I do believe that inositol's detox effects are helping with this. Liver can use all the help it can get!
BTW, I play around with amino acids based on what I've read but it's not an exact science and sometimes I get weird results. My naturopath just gave me a saliva test kit from Neuroscience labs to measure neurotransmitter levels for amino acid supplement baselines. I'm starting a new thread on this board to see if there are any hits/info, so if you're interested, check out new threads. - BarbaraCat
Posted by BarbaraCat on May 16, 2004, at 18:42:27
In reply to Re: can I take tryptophan at same time as gaba? » BarbaraCat, posted by LOOPS on May 14, 2004, at 19:04:44
Hello Loops,
> Presumably I should take the Taurine at a different time from the tryptophan, or does this again work on a different pathway?
**I think it's OK. I don't think aminos compete with each other. As far as pathways, GABA and serotonin are different neurotransmitter systems and I don't think that their precursors directly complete against each other. However, tweaking one system to excess can have impact upon the other neurotransmitters, i.e., serotonin has an inverse effect on dopamine levels.
**However as I am vegan and a woman I think Taurine would be a very good adjunct (apparently estrogen depletes Taurine, and although Taurine can be made from methionine and cysteine, additional taurine is available in meat which I don't get).
**I didn't know that about estrogen depleting Taurine!! That's good info. I wonder if SAM-e would help here since it is a methionine precursor. I eat very few animal products as well. Getting enough protein is a big challenge cause I can't do soy or whey, but I recently discovered hemp protein powder from www.livingharvest.com and like it alot.
>
> Is Taurine good to take before bed - will it add to the deeper sleep I get from inositol/mag/tryptophan/gaba??
>
**I don't notice it having a tranquilizing or sedating effect but more like an electrical smoothing effect. It is an inhibitory amino acid so I'd guess it would add to the calming effects of the others.I only take straight taurine when I'm having more anxiety and then take 500 mg morning and night. I have NO idea if this is enough or the best dosing times. I take my daily magnesium as Mg taurate and like this form of Mg better than the others and figure I'm getting the taurine benefits as well.
>>By the way, regarding brands, I have noticed a difference between the NOW niacinamide and the Solgar - the NOW brand gave me a bit of a headache, which went away when I started the Solgar. Odd huh?
**Thanks! Y'know, I take a few NOW brand supplements but had an odd wondering about their quality a little while ago. Kind of a gut feeling.
>
> Thanks - you seem very knowledgeable about all of this!**Likewise! As far as the amino info, however, I have many questions about them and want to understand alot more. There are so many conflicting reports on when, how much, what they do, etc. So I guess it comes down to reading up and seeing how they affect us indivudually. I'd love a clinic workup and protocol from the Pfeiffer Institute. They're the leaders in the U.S. on treating mood disorders with amino acids and nutritionals.
Posted by LOOPS on May 17, 2004, at 20:13:14
In reply to Re: can I take tryptophan at same time as gaba? » LOOPS, posted by BarbaraCat on May 16, 2004, at 18:42:27
I've had excellent results with the Solgar brand - plus, ok, this is a bit superficial, but the bottles look really nice! I mean, they're all glass with metal tops and have nice labels. Oh dear.
Well I was just reading up on taurine some more - found good article on thewayup.com referring to anxiety. It seems estrogen INHIBITS taurine being formed in the liver. There is also some debate about whether we need taurine from animal products, despite being able to create it ourselves from other aminos.
Also, people with eczema are often deficient in taurine. Well that would be me then. Which is ironic, as the reason I went *mostly* vegan was to overcome this very problem.
I had a look at that website Doctoryourself, and it was very interesting, especially the article about treating alchoholism with megavitamins. Unfortunately, I don't react too well to l-glutamine (makes me irritable, although this is not ALWAYS the case), and with chromium I seem to break out in terrible itchy eczema even more. Also when I take more than 1 / 2 B-50 tablets I seem to get a bit anxious. I also tried lecithin, but found it made me anxious as well. I prefer inositol mixed with a few other things - my brain likes this better, although fish oil I have always found beneficial.
The vitamin C works well though. I am definitely 'on the way up'. I can't believe I've lived so long with anxiety without knowing what really works for me. My husband thinks all my pretty bottles are just another obsession. Well at least this obsession has a point to it, and a good one at that. (Actually I think deep down he agrees that anything that helps is worth it - wish he would say so more though).
Loops
Posted by GabaGirl on May 18, 2004, at 4:16:51
In reply to Re: inositol » GabaGirl, posted by BarbaraCat on May 16, 2004, at 14:44:45
> The Jarrow powder is 600mg per 1/4 tsp, so 1 Tbs is 7.2 grams. Do you know if am or pm or split dosing is preferred? I take 1 Tbs in the morning. I haven't figured out if it energizes me or not, but morning seems to work out best.
Hi BarbaraCat:
I take several grams in the morning and often follow-up with a second dose in the early afternoon. So far it seems to work best that way, but if I feel too hypomanic, I tend to skip the second dose.
I am taking it with 10-15mg of Prozac currently, was taking magnesium but it caused problems for me, then the fish oil and vitamin B. Sometimes I add passionflower tincture to the Inositol/juice/tea drink I have in the am or afternoon. I felt a bit of racing thoughts anxiety, irritability without the inositol yesterday though and took a GABAcalm which may have made me dizzy. But I also had coffee and 2 sodas with caffeine and aspartame, not a good combo for me.
No aspartame today! I think we have to adjust inositol, etc...according to our needs and play around with dosage within reason! until we find what works best. Taking it with passionflower tea in the am worked very well for me for instance -- unfortunately out of my tea and need to add it to my list. I had luck with Nighty Night tea from Traditional Medicinals as it makes the passionflower more palatable. It's pretty funky tasting on its own.
>
> About 4 years I started reacting terribly to SSRI's and coming down with the worst of my fibromyalgia symptoms. I added inositol and felt it was starting to make a difference. Then my pdoc and I suspected I might be bi-polar and started on lithium and then added Lamictal. I read that inositol interferred with lithium's action and so stopped inositol. Lam and lithium worked pretty well then pooped and I was getting pre Stevens-Johnson (which I eventually got but from another med) so I quit everthing.How is Lamictal for you? I have not tried it but am interested. I am on Neurontin and Zyprexa otherwise.
>
> Since stopping all prescription meds this past January I've gone back to inositol and fish oil and SAM-e as my primary mood meds.
>
> Anyhoo, once again I'm feeling the beneficial effects of inositol and fish oil on my mood. Inositol does not bring on any hypomania at all. I think my bipolar depression/craziness was due to brain and body going haywire from longtime stress, and these nutrients are bringing things back to balance. And you bet, I do believe that inositol's detox effects are helping with this. Liver can use all the help it can get!For me too! I feel so much better with inositol. Great find for me and others it seems too.
>
> BTW, I play around with amino acids based on what I've read but it's not an exact science and sometimes I get weird results. My naturopath just gave me a saliva test kit from Neuroscience labs to measure neurotransmitter levels for amino acid supplement baselines. I'm starting a new thread on this board to see if there are any hits/info, so if you're interested, check out new threads. - BarbaraCatI haven't done much with amino acids, but have tried taurine and GABA with some success as calming agents. May try tryptophan soon. We shall see. I'm currently all tapped out for buying more supps this month. :(
Best,
GabaGirl
Posted by BarbaraCat on May 18, 2004, at 15:27:18
In reply to Re: inositol, posted by GabaGirl on May 18, 2004, at 4:16:51
**Yeah, passionflower is a nice herb. I take it to help sleep but haven't tried it during the day. Are you the one who gets kava from Hawaii? I've tried Kava but didn't have much luck with it.
> No aspartame today!
**Aspartame is deadly, a neurotoxin.
> How is Lamictal for you? I have not tried it but am interested. I am on Neurontin and Zyprexa otherwise.
>
**I'm not taking Lam anymore. I was taking with lithium and the two were working OK but a very anxious depression kept breaking through and, as is typical with these things, my dose was very slowly raised (from 75mg to 125, then 150 hoping to reach 200mg). At 125mg I started getting a maddening itch which I thought was due to finally coming down with cat allergies (thankfully, not so). At 150 it was very intense and I cut way back because of fear of the rash. I eventually stopped everything because nothing was working and making my mood symptoms worse.Unfortunately, that itching was actually a promdromal condition that led to a sensitivity to many other drugs. I came down with the rash and worse, Stevens Johnson Syndrom, from another drug in March and came close to exiting this mortal coil. I now have a sensitivity to all kinds of meds that I never was allergic to before. I can't even take Neurontin on a regular basis anymore which helped with fibro pain because any of the anti-convulsants starts giving me mucous membrane blisters. From that experience I really grokked that we have no idea what we're doing to ourselves with these drugs and all the others we take in combo. At least for me, my psych med days are over which is probably a good thing. So thus, my pit bull tenacity to figure it out some other way.
Today is NOT a good day and I'm feeling pretty pissed off, frustrated and teetering on despair. If it were only depression, anxiety, etc., but my body feels like it's being stabbed with ice picks and I'm #$^!@! sick of it. If there were a pill I could gulp to make my mind and body feel better without paying and paying for it, I'd jump at it. But there ain't none and here's where my spiritual training is supposed to come to the rescue.
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