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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 48 to 72 of 90. Go back in thread:
Posted by Dinah on August 3, 2006, at 21:21:33
In reply to Re: not liking deputies, posted by Jost on August 3, 2006, at 20:18:44
> That would be because the deputies have power, and are secure in their roles, acceptance, respect, and personas on the board.
What makes you think that?
Posted by cloudydaze on August 3, 2006, at 21:28:03
In reply to Re: please be civil » cloudydaze, posted by Dr. Bob on August 3, 2006, at 7:31:28
> > Are you saying that all moderators are great people? I don't believe that you know every single moderator on the face of the earth, do you?
>
> The issue isn't moderators everywhere, it's people here. Deputies and also people who just post here, but moderate elsewhere. You have a right to think some of them aren't great people, but not to post that. Your freedom of speech is limited here.Why? Don't think i will ever understand this.
>
> Whether or not someone hates all police officers, it might not be considered civil here to post a joke about them, since there might be police officers here who might feel accused or put down.Yet another thing to add to the list of things you can't do on babble....tell jokes.
>
> OTOH, it's fine to post that one just hates the idea of authority figures.
>
> > He obviously feels that some moderators have a tendency to try too hard at their job, or try to throw their weight around,(which I have seen on other sites - forgive me if i broke any rules by saying).
>
> Please don't jump to conclusions about others or post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down.How was that jumping to a conclusion?! It wasn't jumping to anything! Who is going to be accused or put down by that? Who? Maybe someone who dislikes me? But really Bob, why was that uncivil?
>
> But please don't take this personally, either, this doesn't mean I don't like you or think you're a bad person.
Ah, the same response given to "all who are uncivil" in bob's eyes. Teriffic. Wonderful. Yes, as a matter of fact, i do think you don't like me - in addition to most people on babble.> If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please first see the FAQ:
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#enforce
>
> Follow-ups regarding these issues, as well as replies to the above post, should of course themselves be civil.
>I have said nothing uncivil.
Posted by cloudydaze on August 3, 2006, at 21:36:05
In reply to Re: Suggesting violence--**trigger: crude** » cloudydaze, posted by gardenergirl on August 3, 2006, at 12:54:58
>
> I recognized the joke and understood very well what it was about from the very beginning. But words matter. And choosing a behavior in the light of a feeling and belief matters.Words are just encoded thoughts. In fact, there is no way to express exactly what one is thinking, because after the process of putting it into words (encoding) and reading it (decoding) the message gets jumbled anyway. So I don't see why it matters so much!
>
> You wrote that it's "unfortunate" that I took the joke as I did. I have to ask--unfortunate for whom? I feel quite fortunate whenever I experience an authentic feeling and feel confident enough to express it when I choose to.You expressed that you were offended. Do you think being offended is a good thing? I think it is an unfortunate thing. It's not about being confident in your feelings, it's about feelings that make you feel good, and ones that make you feel bad. If you think being offended is fortunate, more power to ya.
>
> > Why is it okay and acceptable here to talk about hurting ourselves, but not ok to make a reference to violence toward others (esp since it was not meant to be serious)? Is hurting oneself more acceptable....why?
>
> Here's how I view it. The former is an inward, self-contained behavior or urge that does not infringe on anyone else's rights or safety. The latter is an outward behavior directed towards others. It does infringe on others rights and safety regardless of whether it's a serious threat or not.I don't agree. If you post that you are feeling like hurting yourself, that is an outward behavior, and can infringe on other's feelings.
Technically there are a lot of things that offend me, i just don't tell anyone for the greater good. If it makes someone else feel better by posting that they are suicidal, then they should do it, regardless of how it makes ME feel. But, it is offensive and hurtful to me because it reminds me of when I used to do it.
The only way i am able to deal with anything is to forget it ever happened. If i remember, i start to slip.
Posted by cloudydaze on August 3, 2006, at 23:10:47
In reply to Re: please be civil, posted by cloudydaze on August 3, 2006, at 21:28:03
Do you see? I am distressed tonight. In fact, I am currently thinking seriously about dying tonight. this is the 2nd time I've thought about death today - thanks to babble and my crappy life.
Block me if you will, but know that you will be helping in my devestation.
I am all alone now. I must be talented, because I can make people online and off hate me in a matter of weeks! That's talent!
Goodbye babble
Goodbye life.
Posted by Jost on August 3, 2006, at 23:13:01
In reply to Re: not liking deputies » Jost, posted by Dinah on August 3, 2006, at 21:21:33
> > That would be because the deputies have power, and are secure in their roles, acceptance, respect, and personas on the board.
>
> What makes you think that?Probably because if I were in that position, I expect that I would feel that, and also because when I've participated regularly for a fairly long time on a message board, I tend to feel more of those things.
Not at every moment, or with everyone, but enough that when I feel hurt or threatened, or angry, or even put uncomfortably on the spot, I come back to the security that I've established a well-enough respected and solid enough sense of who I am that others won't think badly of me, even if one person does.
So I can recover that sense of being okay--
I think I'd feel an especial responsibility to have that equipoise if I had any power or were somehow in a special position, which the deputies are.
If someone were to go beyond a certain point, I'd actually feel worse for them than for myself, because that tends to happen when someone feels hurt or put down, or afraid or-- . Or imagines themself as such. If it were my responsibility (which luckily it isn't), I guess I would take action for the good of everyone. Reluctantly, however.
I don't know that there wouldn't be times when I would lose my resilience. But I wouldn't like to.
My thought was also that Bob must have a lot of confidence in you, and gg and Auntie Mel--your judgment, ability to handle difficult situations, and not to use your authority inappropriately.
There aren't many people who can do that, especially over time,as you have.
That's mainly why I thought that--not that you wouldn't have moments when you didn't.
Jost
Posted by Estella on August 4, 2006, at 5:10:11
In reply to Re: incivilities and deputies » Estella, posted by Dinah on August 3, 2006, at 21:19:01
> We aren't Dr. Bob.
I know.
> It's a different role.
Deputies have the power to block posters.
> We're posters first.
Yes.
I think you distinguish between poster Dinah and deputy Dinah though. You make it clear when you are posting as deputy Dinah and when you aren't posting as deputy Dinah then you are posting as poster Dinah.
The 'joke' was about deputies, not particular posters.
I don't know about the escalating situation provision. Is that something about 2 incivilities before a blocking? Surely there are exceptions?
> Yeah, it does hurt when fellow Babblers say they don't like me.
Sure. Hurts me when fellow Babblers say they don't like me too.
Though...
You distinguish between fellow Babblers not liking poster Dinah and fellow Babblers not liking deputy Dinah - don't you?
> If Dr. Bob wants deputies from among group members, as opposed to hiring professionals, I think he ought to extend the protection offered to the rest of the group to deputies as well.I think he does offer the same 'protection' to people posting stuff about poster Dinah.
Best interests of the boards...
Do you think that being quick to block people for railing a bit at Bob the moderator and deputies as deputies is likely to encourage people to rail against them more... Or do you think posters will respect the deputies even more for giving off the appearance of keeping ones cool and not taking it personally? I think it might prevent escalation at times... Especially when things can be talked through instead of blocking...
Posted by Estella on August 4, 2006, at 5:30:19
In reply to Re: Suggesting violence--**trigger: crude**, posted by cloudydaze on August 3, 2006, at 21:36:05
> Words are just encoded thoughts.
According to the ideational theory of meaning...
>In fact, there is no way to express exactly what one is thinking, because after the process of putting it into words (encoding) and reading it (decoding) the message gets jumbled anyway. So I don't see why it matters so much!
It matters because the ideational theory of meaning (in that simple version) is simply false. Thinking / Language isn't like that. Not literally.
Cognitive capacity (capacity to think) is very much tied up in verbal capacity. There is some debate as to whether people think in words (verbal form) or images (map like form). Typically... Sensory perception is considered to be maplike while higher cognition is considered to be more sentential.
The way you think about something and the words you use to express your thoughts are indeed very closely linked. We think about the world and we talk about the world. We express our thoughts in language.
>If you post that you are feeling like hurting yourself, that is an outward behavior, and can infringe on other's feelings.
Indeed.
> If it makes someone else feel better by posting that they are suicidal, then they should do it, regardless of how it makes ME feel.
How about if it makes someone else feel better to call me all kinds of names. Should they do it regardless of how it makes ME feel?
The purpose of the boards is support.The reason our freedom of speech is limited here is because the purpose of the boards is support.
It would be unsupportive if you were to say 'Estella you are fat and ugly and I wish you would go away'. Hence... Your freedom of speech is limited here. If it is any consolation... You know that other people aren't allowed to post things like that to you either. I think the purpose of the civility rules is to teach us how to be supportive. When we aren't supportive then we get warned / blocked. Sometimes... People don't have social supports because... People are uncivil. Both on the boards and IRL. There are people here who will happily Babble away and this is a good forum for giving and receiving support. Those who don't participate in the support... Those who accuse others... Who jump to conclusions about others intentions... Who attack others... Who are sarcastic to others... etc etc. Well... They either get the hang of not posting those kinds of posts or they end up blocked for a long time yeah.
I've never advocated changing that...
It is a little like...
How do I know what I think until I see / hear what I say?
Posted by Estella on August 4, 2006, at 5:32:36
In reply to Re: please be civil, posted by cloudydaze on August 3, 2006, at 23:10:47
> I am all alone now. I must be talented, because I can make people online and off hate me in a matter of weeks! That's talent!
> Goodbye babble
> Goodbye life.I hope you manage to get some help IRL and that you decide to come back when you are feeling better.
I don't hate you. I don't think people hate you.
I'm sorry you are hurting.
Posted by Dinah on August 4, 2006, at 7:01:12
In reply to Re: incivilities and deputies » Dinah, posted by Estella on August 4, 2006, at 5:10:11
Deputy Dinah is still person Dinah.
I hadn't realized people didn't understand that.
I have a lot to think about.
Posted by Estella on August 4, 2006, at 7:20:51
In reply to Re: incivilities and deputies » Estella, posted by Dinah on August 4, 2006, at 7:01:12
> Deputy Dinah is still person Dinah.
I know that.
> I hadn't realized people didn't understand that.It can be pretty scary to think that another person has power over you, such as the power to block you. If authority figures have abused their authority in the past then it can be especially scary. Some people... Post not so nice things to Bob. Sometimes it seems to be about... Their not liking him having the power to block them. Jokes and stuff like that can be one way of undermining some of that power so the person can better cope with it. At least... Maybe some of that goes on. I'm not sure really. Making stuff up as I go along.
Posted by Estella on August 4, 2006, at 7:24:04
In reply to Re: incivilities and deputies » Dinah, posted by Estella on August 4, 2006, at 7:20:51
Ah, but the point was that if it is about that then blocking someone in response might not always be the best strategy. Sometimes people need to get a sense of... Benevolent power. I think deputies do get some stuff in virtue of being deputies. I think that deputies should realise that it isn't personal. It is solely because they are deputies. A lot of the stuff you get for being a deputy is directed your way solely because you are a deputy. A lot of anger towards Bob... Diffuses down to the deputies... And sometimes to the other regular posters too...
Kinda hard. Raving really. Are you still around? Do you want to chat?
Posted by Dinah on August 4, 2006, at 7:24:32
In reply to Re: not liking deputies » Dinah, posted by Jost on August 3, 2006, at 23:13:01
You sound very put together. Perhaps you should volunteer to be deputy.
Me? I'm just Dinah, who offered to help Dr. Bob out because I didn't like to see what happened when he wasn't around and things escalated.
Posted by Estella on August 4, 2006, at 7:24:56
In reply to Re: incivilities and deputies, posted by Estella on August 4, 2006, at 7:24:04
People tend to lash out when they are feeling hurt and fearful... No excuse... But goes some way with respect to explanation...
Posted by Dinah on August 4, 2006, at 7:32:40
In reply to Re: incivilities and deputies, posted by Estella on August 4, 2006, at 7:24:04
Chat is the only place I feel like I'm part of the group lately. Where I can be someone other than Deputy Dinah.
People have all sorts of reasons for lashing out at other posters as well. Perfectly understandable reasons that I have a great deal of sympathy for.
It doesn't make it acceptable on this board, because the other person is considered someone who doesn't deserve to be lashed out at, whatever the reason.
But deputies apparently aren't considered in the same light by Dr. Bob.
I'm going back to bed.
Posted by Estella on August 4, 2006, at 7:35:00
In reply to Re: incivilities and deputies » Estella, posted by Dinah on August 4, 2006, at 7:32:40
Bob hasn't been around all that much lately, has he...
Bob? You getting sick of us or something?
Posted by Estella on August 4, 2006, at 7:35:59
In reply to Re: not liking deputies » Jost, posted by Dinah on August 4, 2006, at 7:24:32
I think Jost meant well.
Don't underestimate yourself Dinah.
Posted by Estella on August 4, 2006, at 7:42:16
In reply to Re: incivilities and deputies » Estella, posted by Dinah on August 4, 2006, at 7:32:40
> Chat is the only place I feel like I'm part of the group lately. Where I can be someone other than Deputy Dinah.
Have you not been posting so much on the boards as poster Dinah?
How come?
> People have all sorts of reasons for lashing out at other posters as well. Perfectly understandable reasons that I have a great deal of sympathy for.
Sure.
> It doesn't make it acceptable on this board, because the other person is considered someone who doesn't deserve to be lashed out at, whatever the reason.
> But deputies apparently aren't considered in the same light by Dr. Bob.Why is it that Bob blocks people for lashing out at others? Because the boards are about support. Deputies have the power to block. Blocking isn't supportive. I think that that means that they are indeed going to get a little heat for that... Deputies aren't supportive to posters in blocking them... Posters who have been blocked (especially) are probably likely to retaliate...
When you block someone it isn't personal. You don't think they are a bad person for what they posted.
When someone is unsupportive BECAUSE you have that power... That doesn't mean they think you are a bad person.
I don't know.
I guess I don't see it as him offering less protection. I see it more as... Well... Babble would be perceived of as more of a cult (than it is already) if people were severely jumped on for going off at Bob / deputies. Would be more likely to be perceived as a little clicky group... I'm not sure how that would foster a supportive general atmosphere... I have no earthly idea...
> I'm going back to bed.
Fine then don't chat with me and flip flop snif ;-)
sleep well.
Posted by Dinah on August 4, 2006, at 8:05:55
In reply to Re: not liking deputies, posted by Estella on August 4, 2006, at 7:35:59
I never said Jost didn't mean well. I thought I was complimenting him, and denigrating myself.
But I apologize if that wasn't clear.
Posted by Dinah on August 4, 2006, at 8:07:04
In reply to Re: incivilities and deputies, posted by Estella on August 4, 2006, at 7:42:16
We're not going to agree on this, and I'm upsetting my family in crying so much, so I'd rather not continue this conversation.
Posted by Estella on August 4, 2006, at 8:25:48
In reply to Re: incivilities and deputies » Estella, posted by Dinah on August 4, 2006, at 8:07:04
I'm sorry...
I didn't realise you were that upset. I've been misjudging that all over the show lately :-(
I'm sorry.((((((((((((((((((Dinah)))))))))))))))
I appreciate you (both the poster and the deputy) a whole heap.
I'm sorry you are going through a hard time at the moment.
Posted by gardenergirl on August 4, 2006, at 9:08:12
In reply to Re: incivilities and deputies » Estella, posted by Dinah on August 4, 2006, at 8:07:04
Posted by Declan on August 4, 2006, at 12:38:21
In reply to Re: Jokes » Declan, posted by henrietta on August 3, 2006, at 19:45:58
'well and good. then apply it equally. a hostile joke against one is a hostile joke against all, and should either be permitted or not.'
Maybe, probably, I don't know, you're no doubt right. I see the thread has grown much longer. This isn't team sports or politics in action is it? If I was being treated for ADHD it would be a different story. 10mg Dexedrine would do the trick and I'd get to the end of the thread
Posted by Declan on August 4, 2006, at 14:09:32
In reply to Re: no man is an island, posted by henrietta on August 3, 2006, at 19:40:46
I think you have a point Henrietta, but Admin is kind of bad in that it encourages a (to me) regrettable discourse (if I may so call it). All this meta-commentary. What am I doing here then?
Posted by Declan on August 4, 2006, at 19:10:39
In reply to Jokes, posted by Declan on August 3, 2006, at 19:32:16
I think I was wrong.
There is a scene in Napoleon Dynamite where Napoleon says something like "Girls go with guys who have skills, like computer hacking or nunchuka skills. Gosh, I need some skills"
Not much transgression there. Maybe we laugh because he is both so right and so wrong.
Declan
Posted by crushedout on August 4, 2006, at 21:22:34
In reply to Re: incivilities and deputies » Estella, posted by Dinah on August 3, 2006, at 21:19:01
we are allowed to say: "I don't like Dr. Bob"? That could open up some serious floodgates for me. :)I agree with Dinah that Bob's answers to her questions were nonsensical (OK, Dinah didn't say that--it's my own spin), especially in light of the PBC directly before.
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