![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 21 to 45 of 45. Go back in thread:
Posted by Robert_Burton_1621 on July 1, 2015, at 5:35:12
In reply to Re: Akathisia? Restless Leg Syndrome? Need Some Advice » scleme1, posted by SLS on June 29, 2015, at 22:21:55
> Akathisia with Zoloft (sertraline) is not unusual. This might be because it is an antagonist of sigma-1 receptors; something unique among the SSRIs. Luvox (fluvoxamine) does just the opposite. Still, you might not be experiencing akathisia per se. In akathisia, there are no focal sensations in the limbs. Also, akathisia presents all day long, not just at bedtime.
>
> Have you tried Luvox?> Your experience might very well be behavioral and psychosomatic. CBT could be your answer.
>
>
> - ScottI agree with Scott (not that I'm nearly as knowledgeable) about zoloft - and some other SSRIs - being capable of causing akathisia as well as his observation that what you report experiencing solely at night time is unlikely to be akathisia.
As regards RLS, SSRIs can also cause this, but in your recount you don't mention symptoms concentrated initially and primarily in the legs, and neither do you state that the urge to move worsens with rest or immobility. RLS is usually worse in the evening but is definitely not restricted to that period. Do you get heavy, irritable limbs during the day when you relax, like when you watch the TV? With RLS, movement usually brings immediate relief - do you get *relief* through moving?
Apart from medication, low iron levels can cause RLS. Have you had these checked?
If your mental health can sustain it, I wonder whether it might be prudent to lower your zoloft a bit and see whether the symptoms improve? I experienced exactly what you describe when I was taking more than 300mg of effexor; the symptoms disappeared when I reduced to 225mg.
As for medications to treat RLS (and also I think akathisia), a dopamine agonist may be helpful. For RLS, pramipexole is usually prescribed.
Good luck.
Posted by Robert_Burton_1621 on July 1, 2015, at 5:49:06
In reply to Re: Lou's response-Dr. Quackenbush » Scleme1, posted by SLS on June 30, 2015, at 8:14:38
> > Lou What's the matter with you? Thankfully, I know myself and the medications that I take well enough to understand that everything you are saying is bullsh*t. Why would you try and scare people with your lies and fearmongering? I do not appreciate your convoluted insight or help. Please do not post a response or any further comments in my thread. I would like to hear from honest, intellectual people. I think you might need to switch mess yourself!
>
> Hi, Aaron.
>
> I avoid reading and replying to the posts of Mr. Pilder. I have found that to reply to them is without effect and only tempts me to say uncivil things out of frustration. I would recommend to anyone who feels similarly frustrated and is habitually upset by what Mr. Pilder writes that they avoid interacting with him entirely.
>
> I hope that I was careful enough not to disparage or otherwise qualify the statements of Mr. Pilder. I have, however, tried to qualify my reactions to and subsequent avoidance of them.
>
> I will check from time to time to see if posts are better redirected and placed on the Administration board in so that the Medication board remains on topic for treatment issues. Of course, this is open to subjective judgement.
>
> Civil communication as suggested by Psycho-Babble:
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
>
>
> - ScottHi also Aaron.
Scott's advice is, on the relevant subject, salutory. I regrettably left psychobabble for months because of the persistent, mostly unconstructive, mostly poorly-informed, mostly inapposite, and sometimes highly offensive and accusatory interventions by Mr Pilder to threads initiated by members with conscientious questions who are suffering often intractable conditions and symptoms. I left at a time when I first started on parnate and needed all the well-informed advice and support I could get. Since leaving, I have had two hypertensive crises, one very dangerous, but felt disinclined to resume my participation here because of the apprehension that Mr. Pilder would seek irrelevantly to monopolise any thread I might compose. Reading his interventions - even seeing them listed in the thread - became a source of anxiety and deep disappointment. Responding to them even more so: nothing can be gained from doing so, and much can be compromised, including one's mental health and the confidence one has in pyschobabble as a forum worth remaining associated with and contributing to.
I commend the substance of your response to Mr Pilder but, in your best interests, it would be best to make it your last.
Best.
Posted by Lou Pilder on July 1, 2015, at 5:59:15
In reply to Why are we talking about permanent effects??, posted by scleme1 on June 30, 2015, at 17:39:44
> I don't know where we got off target here, but I'm never asked whether or not this feeling is permanent. I just wanted to get opinions on what the feelings might be - Akathisia, RLS, Anxiety, etc - so I could start trying to address the cause.
>
> If Lou the Idiot would stop trolling and hijacking my thread, I might get some sound answers. This place used to be where incredibly smart and well educated people hung out and helped each other.Friends,
Be advised that the slander against me here is just another tactic allowed here to defame me and then reduce the regard and respect and confidence in which I am held which could induce hostile and disagreeable opinions and feelings toward me. The false charges against me here could sway you to disregard what I write here that IMHHHO what I write could save your life, prevent life-ruining conditions, addictions and death.
This is not a new tactic but an old tactic to arouse ill-will toward a member of a community that posts from a Jewish perspective as revealed to me. The fact that it is allowed by the governing body here to post disparaging epithets about me with impunity, could stigmatize me and lead readers to think that it will be good for this community as a whole for the hate to be seen as being supportive, for being supportive takes precedence according to Mr. Hsiung here.
It is this fostering of anti-Semitic hate here that I think could cost you your life or your child's life as you or your child being a victim of anti-Semitic propaganda being allowed to be seen as being supportive here by Mr. Hsiung and his deputies of record. Because it is being allowed to be seen as supportive, you could disregard my warnings about that thousands of people are killed each and every month from these drugs and you may not believe that because I said it and I am being made a target person here to be the recipient of defamation to be seen as supportive by Mr. Hsiung.
The children that are killed by these drugs can not speak here to warn you that your child could be killed by these drugs also. But is to call me an idiot and be allowed for it to stand something that this site could be held to promoting death? And if so, I do not want the readers that have been killed or will be killed by these drugs being promoted here to have their blood be upon me. That is not trolling, but trying to save lives for I do not want children to suffer a horrible death by them. For when those that take these drugs get a movement disorder from the drugs, that is a time where many kill themselves and commit mass-murder, for they know not what to do and could not even know that it comes from the drugs that they are taking in collaboration with a psychiatrist. This is one way that the drugs kill innocent people. In the state of akathisia, they don't know what to do and can go off in a shooting rampage. This thread is where the poster asks for advise. With that request, there can be a response to it. So don't tell me what to say and don't tell me what to do. You can promote drugs here that can cause death, so could I not respond to your promotion of these drugs to warn readers of the tragic consequences that these drugs can induce? If not, why not?
Lou
Posted by SLS on July 1, 2015, at 6:21:40
In reply to Re: Akathisia? Restless Leg Syndrome? Need Some Advice » SLS, posted by Robert_Burton_1621 on July 1, 2015, at 5:35:12
Correction:
I characterized Zoloft (sertraline) as being a sigma-1 antagonist. It is a sigma-1 agonist.
My apologies.
- Scott
Posted by Scleme1 on July 1, 2015, at 8:32:04
In reply to Re: Lou's response-Dr. Quackenbush » SLS, posted by Robert_Burton_1621 on July 1, 2015, at 5:49:06
Thank you both for your input. Very insightful and helpful. After speaking with a Dr. friend of mine last night, I am also starting to believe this is not Akathisia or RLS. I believe this is either a case of simple anxiety and poor bedtime/bedroom practices (laying in bed on my phone for hours before bedtime, playing games on my phone until I can't keep my eyes open, etc.), nicotine overdose or withdrawal, or possibly a nutritional problem. I'm getting full labs done early next week to see if there's anything going on with my nutrition. I'll report back if anything surprising comes back next week.
Thanks again for your thoughtful and intelligent replies. Have a great day!
Posted by Scleme1 on July 1, 2015, at 8:35:20
In reply to Re: Akathisia? Restless Leg Syndrome? Need Some Advice, posted by Lamdage22 on June 30, 2015, at 15:00:16
Posted by Lou Pilder on July 1, 2015, at 9:26:50
In reply to Re: Lou's response-Dr. Quackenbush » SLS, posted by Robert_Burton_1621 on July 1, 2015, at 5:49:06
> > > Lou What's the matter with you? Thankfully, I know myself and the medications that I take well enough to understand that everything you are saying is bullsh*t. Why would you try and scare people with your lies and fearmongering? I do not appreciate your convoluted insight or help. Please do not post a response or any further comments in my thread. I would like to hear from honest, intellectual people. I think you might need to switch mess yourself!
> >
> > Hi, Aaron.
> >
> > I avoid reading and replying to the posts of Mr. Pilder. I have found that to reply to them is without effect and only tempts me to say uncivil things out of frustration. I would recommend to anyone who feels similarly frustrated and is habitually upset by what Mr. Pilder writes that they avoid interacting with him entirely.
> >
> > I hope that I was careful enough not to disparage or otherwise qualify the statements of Mr. Pilder. I have, however, tried to qualify my reactions to and subsequent avoidance of them.
> >
> > I will check from time to time to see if posts are better redirected and placed on the Administration board in so that the Medication board remains on topic for treatment issues. Of course, this is open to subjective judgement.
> >
> > Civil communication as suggested by Psycho-Babble:
> >
> > http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
> >
> >
> > - Scott
>
> Hi also Aaron.
>
> Scott's advice is, on the relevant subject, salutory. I regrettably left psychobabble for months because of the persistent, mostly unconstructive, mostly poorly-informed, mostly inapposite, and sometimes highly offensive and accusatory interventions by Mr Pilder to threads initiated by members with conscientious questions who are suffering often intractable conditions and symptoms. I left at a time when I first started on parnate and needed all the well-informed advice and support I could get. Since leaving, I have had two hypertensive crises, one very dangerous, but felt disinclined to resume my participation here because of the apprehension that Mr. Pilder would seek irrelevantly to monopolise any thread I might compose. Reading his interventions - even seeing them listed in the thread - became a source of anxiety and deep disappointment. Responding to them even more so: nothing can be gained from doing so, and much can be compromised, including one's mental health and the confidence one has in pyschobabble as a forum worth remaining associated with and contributing to.
>
> I commend the substance of your response to Mr Pilder but, in your best interests, it would be best to make it your last.
>
> Best.
>
Friends,
Be not deceived. Just because they use me as a scapegoat, and just because what they say is allowed to be seen as civil, the Plain Truth is what I write here is to save lives and to prevent life-ruining conditions and addictions. That is supportive in any mental-health forum unless the forum is a community of death, looking to bring you down into a whirlpool of lies, drawn into a cesspool of hate that could not only lead you to your death, but to the deaths of innocent people.
Look at the advocating to isolate me here. That is not a new tactic, but an old anti-Semitic tactic to keep the Jewish perspective from you. For I have come here to reveal how you could be delivered from the darkness of death into a marvelous light of life, free from the shackles of addiction and depression having dominion over you. The use of scapegoating saying that a Jew is the cause of someone's real or imagined ills, is nothing new and goes back centuries used in the dark ages by those ignorant of the light of truth so they blame their real or imagined ills on the Jews or a Jew in the community. And this is allowed here by Mr. Hsiung and his deputies of record and those members in concert with him. That could lead you to believe that anti-Semitism is supportive and will be good for this community as a whole. And with Mr. Hsiung posting the swastika and refusing to delete it or open the post and type in a disclaimer to it, readers could be reinforced into thinking that this is an anti-Semitic site just as if a city erected a billboard with a swastika on it and signed by the mayor.
The allowing of the humiliation of me here by Mr. Hsiung allowing anti-Semitic propaganda and scapegoating and stigmatization of me here to be seen as supportive and by design, shows the devaluation of humanity itself. Hopefully, someone greater than me will rob this site of its victory and take the swastika down.
Lou
Posted by 10derheart on July 1, 2015, at 13:19:55
In reply to Lou's response-skehypgauxt » Robert_Burton_1621, posted by Lou Pilder on July 1, 2015, at 9:26:50
You're saying Scott writes posts referencing you and (at least part of) his motivation is....
anti-semitism???
That's rich.
Lou, you may be a very silly rabbit.
Posted by Robert_Burton_1621 on July 1, 2015, at 18:20:34
In reply to Robert + Scott - Thank you!, posted by Scleme1 on July 1, 2015, at 8:32:04
> Thank you both for your input. Very insightful and helpful. After speaking with a Dr. friend of mine last night, I am also starting to believe this is not Akathisia or RLS. I believe this is either a case of simple anxiety and poor bedtime/bedroom practices (laying in bed on my phone for hours before bedtime, playing games on my phone until I can't keep my eyes open, etc.), nicotine overdose or withdrawal, or possibly a nutritional problem. I'm getting full labs done early next week to see if there's anything going on with my nutrition. I'll report back if anything surprising comes back next week.
>
> Thanks again for your thoughtful and intelligent replies. Have a great day!Yes, blue light inhibits the secretion of melatonin, therefore if you expose yourself to excessive blue light before or at bedtime, you will likely suffer from insomnia and restlessness.
Good luck.
Posted by hello123 on July 1, 2015, at 22:53:33
In reply to Re: Akathisia? Restless Leg Syndrome? Need Some Advice » hello123, posted by SLS on June 30, 2015, at 19:54:15
> Could you be more specific? It would be helpful to certain people.
>
>
> - Scott
im not sure what you mean. but there are anecdotal reports all over the internet about people experiencing permanent side effects. or at the least, extremely long lasting, possibly permanent. i think the people who experience this are seen as misguided by many online others online. at least thats how my experience has been.but heres one report i found after searching for a few seconds:
http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/forum/f30/anti-depressants-and-permanent-side-effects-after-quitting-97420/#/forumsite/20507/topics/97420?page=1and then then theres myself. my experience with has been absolute hell. i could write my whole experience, but it might be kinda confusing and would beca LOT of writing. but
in my experience, often when i take a psych med chronically, it seems the end effect of all the compensating brain changes is permanent.
in a bit over a month after starting my 1st round of psych meds i went from a pretty normal teen with what i see now, to a huge change in everything about my mood, my world, everything. and it was terrible. ive been battling this ever since.i dont see why situations like this is hard to believe for people. its chemicals and we're not sure what they do, that we're altering the brains of millions of people with. anyone who is mildly educated on psych treatments shouldnt even question this.
while most peoples brains may react just fine to these foreign chemicals, there are those who suffer longterm from taking them. it is the same as how many are just fine with drinking milk with no bad reactions, yet there are those who cant tolerate it.
our emotions are often talked about as having permanent effects on our brains. with chronic depression rewiring certain brain areas, and even causing brain shrinkage.
why couldnt a foreign chemical like paxil also do something like this in susceptible individuals after chronic use?we acknowledge we are lacking in our understanding of the brain. we acknowledge we dont understand how psych meds effect the brain. yet some of say with confidence that these treatments cannot leave someone suffering from permanent effects on their brain. why? you can bet everything you have to your name that the people at Eli Lilly know these people who criticize others for mentioning permanent dangers of these chemicals, that Eli Lilly sees these people as sheep. but are laughing all the way to the bank.
Posted by SLS on July 2, 2015, at 7:53:06
In reply to Re: Akathisia? Restless Leg Syndrome? Need Some Advice, posted by hello123 on July 1, 2015, at 22:53:33
> > Could you be more specific? It would be helpful to certain people.
> im not sure what you mean.I know that there are persistent effects that many psychotropics produce. They can change the "terrain" of the brain - for better or worse.
Perhaps you could list a few specific adverse effects that have remained with you after you discontinued specific drugs.
You might also list a few of the irreversible adverse effects in others that you feel are most prominent. Using a search engine will not reproduce your cumulative knowledge.
Thank you.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on July 3, 2015, at 8:43:58
In reply to Re: Akathisia? Restless Leg Syndrome? Need Some Advice, posted by hello123 on July 1, 2015, at 22:53:33
Hello123,
Where did you run off to?
I was serious. I think listing specifics would be very helpful.
- Scott-------------------------
> > > Could you be more specific? It would be helpful to certain people.
> > im not sure what you mean.
> I know that there are persistent effects that many psychotropics produce. They can change the "terrain" of the brain - for better or worse.
>
> Perhaps you could list a few specific adverse effects that have remained with you after you discontinued specific drugs.
>
> You might also list a few of the irreversible adverse effects in others that you feel are most prominent. Using a search engine will not reproduce your cumulative knowledge.
>
> Thank you.
Posted by hello123 on July 3, 2015, at 21:05:04
In reply to Re: Akathisia? Restless Leg Syndrome? Need Some Advice » hello123, posted by SLS on July 2, 2015, at 7:53:06
ive not even felt like typing on babble the past few days. my stomach has been feeling ptetty bad.
but, for myself, ive experienced a severe decrease in my ability to experience the emotions that make up life. since taking effexor in 2006 my hair has fallen out faster. its not really noticeable but i do miss my hair looking fuller. also, because of effexor, some of my facial muscles tense up on their own. of i straim my muscles even a tiny bit, i feel shaky and more emotionally disconnected afterwards. what bit of emotions i have are very sensititive to foods. as soon as i swallow something like chocolate, meat, bread etc... it has its effect. ive never, ever heard of something like this, but this is what im experiencing. i could even yell you the difference between white bread thats been fortified with B Vitamins, and white bread that hasnt been. i have very low energy. i vget irritable about some things easily. and my mood is very low. music sounds
pretty empty. i no longer get "closed eye visuals". my imagination and ability to laugh are very weak. and just anything that is pleasurable is often too much for me to handle. leaving me feeling completely drained, mentally and physically in a way that i couldnt imagine before my experience with medications.the worst meds for me were adderall, mirapex and effexor.
i had encephalitis in 2001 that resulted in a 5 day coma, so that could have something to do with why i react so badly to meds with permanent effects on me. but i dont know the criteria for one to react to mefs like i do. but one example of psych meds permanently altering the brain is when they stop working for someone, and never work again.
a couple of weeks ago i was reading revirws on buspar, on askapatient.com i think. and came across a guys revirw describing how buspar worked great for a certain amount of time. and then one day during the time he was on buspar, out of nowhere his anxiety became much worse than he had ever experienced. and buspar was no longer of any benefit. the situation he described seemed much like my experience with adderall and mirapex. theyd benefit me for some weeks by increasing pleasurable feelings. but it seems my brain adjusts its dopamine "thermostat", and no longer works to produce pleasurable feelings on its own. this isnt an addiction response, because these medications also completely stop working at the same time as well. even after taking a break from them for a couple of years and then trying them again, tbey still have no effect. i know adderall depends on vertain processes in the braim to take place before it can even be of any use. and it seems these processes were turned off.
Posted by SLS on July 4, 2015, at 7:58:38
In reply to Re: Akathisia? Restless Leg Syndrome? Need Some Advice, posted by hello123 on July 3, 2015, at 21:05:04
> ive not even felt like typing on babble the past few days. my stomach has been feeling ptetty bad.
Sorry to hear that.
> but, for myself, ive experienced a severe decrease in my ability to experience the emotions that make up life.
Unfortunately, that doesn't sound unreasonable. Did the drug produce these things while you were taking it? For how long did you take a SRI before these persistent effects emerged?
> since taking effexor in 2006 my hair has fallen out faster. its not really noticeable but i do miss my hair looking fuller.
Had your hair been falling out prior to Effexor? I don't think you can do much for male-pattern baldness. However, zinc and small amounts of selenium can help in other situations.
> also, because of effexor, some of my facial muscles tense up on their own.
Any bruxism?
> of i straim my muscles even a tiny bit, i feel shaky and more emotionally disconnected afterwards.
This, I've never heard of. It must be scary and frustrating.
> what bit of emotions i have are very sensititive to foods. as soon as i swallow something like chocolate, meat, bread etc... it has its effect.
For me, carbohydrates produce exaggerated fatigue, heart palpitations, and perhaps somewhat flatter affect. This began in the mid-1980s after being on Parnate + desipramine. It hasn't dissipated, regardless of what drugs I am taking. I can't comment on the persistence of these phenomena, though, since I haven't been drug-free but for a few weeks here and there.
> ive never, ever heard of something like this, but this is what im experiencing. i could even yell you the difference between white bread thats been fortified with B Vitamins, and white bread that hasnt been.
> i have very low energy. i vget irritable about some things easily.and my mood is very low. music sounds pretty empty. i no longer get "closed eye visuals". my imagination and ability to laugh are very weak. and just anything that is pleasurable is often too much for me to handle. leaving me feeling completely drained, mentally and physically in a way that i couldnt imagine before my experience with medications.
These sound like common symptoms of depression. Depression itself tends to get worse with time. It would be hard to parse the symptoms of the illness versus persistent drug adverse effects.What about apathy? Sexual function / sensation? I have heard of these things persisting after SRI discontinuation.
> the worst meds for me were adderall, mirapex and effexor.
I don't like the idea of using Mirapex for depression. It must wreak havoc dopamine receptors.
> i had encephalitis in 2001 that resulted in a 5 day coma, so that could have something to do with why i react so badly to meds with permanent effects on me.
I have no knowledge to share in this area.
> but i dont know the criteria for one to react to mefs like i do. but one example of psych meds permanently altering the brain is when they stop working for someone, and never work again.
Yup.
> a couple of weeks ago i was reading revirws on buspar, on askapatient.com i think. and came across a guys revirw describing how buspar worked great for a certain amount of time. and then one day during the time he was on buspar, out of nowhere his anxiety became much worse than he had ever experienced.It is often overlooked that Buspar has a major metabolite called 1-PP. This substance is a NE alpha-2 receptor antagonist. As such, it can worsen anxiety in some people. However, I don't know if this effect can be latent or have a tendency to persist beyond drug discontinuation.
Medical treatments for many ailments are not without risks. Unfortunately, the phenomena you list are not well-established in the medical community as risks for taking antidepressants. Hopefully, these things will be mitigated for you once you find an effective treatment for your depression.
It would be interesting to see how you would do with a regimen of Abilify, Lamictal, and possibly Wellbutrin. It would be nice to avoid a SRI if possible.
- Scott
Posted by hello123 on July 4, 2015, at 15:53:55
In reply to Re: Akathisia? Restless Leg Syndrome? Need Some Advice » hello123, posted by SLS on July 4, 2015, at 7:58:38
everything i described occurred while taking psychiatric meds.
my food/emotion sensitivity began while taking effexor. and when this first began, my hair loss wa very sensitive to foods i ate. this was probably the most odd reaction i had to efexor. i could eat a certain food, like meat, and almost immediately afte swallowing a bite, it was like my full range of emotions were turned on anfd it was great, but at the same time my hair wpuld fall out at a very rapid pace. but if i took a bite of a different kind of food the hair loss would immediately stop. the foods and drinks that caused this would change occasionally. this effect lasted for some months after i quit effexor. i did my best through this time and succeeded in keeping my hair looking thick. this was in 2007. but like i said, since then my hair still does fall out faster. but today, the better i feel emotionally,the faster my hair falls out.
i dont think i grind my teeth with bruxism. its muscles on my forehead and between that tense on their own, and they get pretty sore at times.
with my muscles, its not exactly the straining of them that messes me up. its really just using them any at all. along with most of my other symptoms, cyproheptadine benefitted this greatly, i slowly progressed from simply opening my eyes when i wake up being too much for me (along with any other mpvement) to being able to move just fine in 90% of situations.
>These sound like common symptoms of depression. Depression itself tends to get worse with time. It would be hard to parse the symptoms of the illness versus persistent drug adverse effects.
the story of my experience with these chemicals is pretty long. and ot isnt difficult at all to parse through what are persistent effects of these chemicals. the terrible effects i describe only began while on these chemicals. at no other point in my life have i ever experienced such profound changes in emotional functioning. and the experience has felt completelt abnormal. during my first round of prescribed chemicals, i went from having emotional problems that were just w little booboo to
what would be like being hit with a sedgehammer some weeks into taking them. but i didnt attribute this to being caused by the chemicals at the time, sice i was still messed up months after stopping them. only after trying more chemicals did i realize what the problem was.my experience may not be well established in the medical community. but i have litle doubt that researchers, those who thoroughly study the effects of these chemicals on the brain, are fully aware of their chemicals being able to cause situations like mine.
Posted by hello123 on July 4, 2015, at 16:23:22
In reply to Re: Akathisia? Restless Leg Syndrome? Need Some Advice, posted by hello123 on July 4, 2015, at 15:53:55
oh and yes, my libido is terrible. and if i do attempt to feel anything in that department, even the slightest bit, this also drains me mentally and physically.
but... as ive mentioned in the past, the only med to benefit me longterm was cyprobeptadine. it seemed to get to the root of the side effects away and slowly do away with them. but i had to raise the dose every few days over time after lower doses stopped working, until i got to a much too high dose. hat was in 2010. since then ive even more slowly regtesed back to the state i was in before taking it. here soon i will likelt be trying a somewhat high dose of ig again, about the dose i was on during this point of progress i was in 2010 while taking it, and hopefully ot will work again.
if not, ive been trying to find an herb thst functions like cyproheptadine with no antihistamine effect. i think it was either cyproheltadines 5ht2a or 5ht2c inverse agonism that benefitted me. my thougts are partial to its 5ht2c effect. ive found the herbs Kudzu and Bacopa that are normal antagonists at that receptor, and migt help. but still, inverse agonistscan have very different effects that might help when an antagonist doesnt.
basically im wanting an herb that works like cyproheptadine, that i can take like candy. if you or anyone has any knowledge about one..... thatd be awesome.
Posted by Lamdage22 on July 6, 2015, at 5:54:31
In reply to Lou's response-The Garden » 10derheart, posted by Lou Pilder on June 30, 2015, at 19:23:15
omg
Posted by SLS on July 6, 2015, at 8:06:17
In reply to Re: Lou's response-The Garden, posted by Lamdage22 on July 6, 2015, at 5:54:31
> omg
What caused you to react that way?
I would really appreciate your input.
Thanks.
- Scott
Posted by bleauberry on July 6, 2015, at 10:48:23
In reply to Akathisia? Restless Leg Syndrome? Need Some Advice, posted by scleme1 on June 29, 2015, at 17:09:09
I haven't read all the other posts. Hopefully you got some good answers. I just wanted to put in my 2 cents in case it helps.
Restless legs is basically a deficient dopamine thing. I used to get it a lot on antipsychotics. It is a common side effect with them. I also got it when a dose of Ritalin was wearing off. I get restless legs every day around early evening, not as bad as on drugs, probably some permanent damage from all the years of psychiatric drugs.
Zoloft tends to self-metabolize itself over time...in other words, the 200mg may actually be the equivalent of a lower dose, because your body is chewing it up faster than it used to. This is a unique quirk to Zoloft not shared by most other psych meds. So it could be your dose is too low. It needs to be increased every year to account for the higher metabolization rate.
Zoloft would explain both the restless legs and the nervous thing. Sort of the same as reducing dose or taking a lesser dose.
The nervousness thing though, well, it would be consistent with the time of day zoloft would be mostly worn out, so that would make sense. Toward the end of the day, right? But then, my first gut instinct was adrenal glands....likely pumping out cortisol or adrenaline at wrong times...and if that is the case then these substances should be tried because they will help to smooth that out but also help psychiatrically as well....
Rhodiola rosea
AshwagandaFor immediate relief, like within 20 minutes, take a dropper full of Lemon Balm liquid tincture. It wears off in a few hours, shouldn't be taken every single day, but can be a reliable tool in your toolbox that you can use often.
The most progress you can make is free. Be real picky about what goes into the grocery cart. I think we are only in the infant stage, but Americans are beginning to take notice that the things they have been taught all their lives are ok, are actually absolutely not ok. They in fact cause rampant nationwide diseases that nobody can successfully treat. I'm talking about today's gluten, genetically modified grains, trace pesticides, trace herbicides, trace metals....but the biggest offender of all....the one that kills while putting a smile on at the same time....is sugar.
For me to get better, cleaning up my diet was the foundation of that which made everything else able to work. Without that, other stuff doesn't work as well or totally fails. People have no idea how bad this stuff is for them. They wouldn't even take it home from the store if it was free, if they only knew.
For symptom relief, that's a challenge. For some people the meds or herbs that cause relaxation work. For others, those things make it worse. I can get up and walk around a couple minutes and be fine for a while after that. It is not that big of a problem with me that I am actively seeking remedy, but it is an uncomfortable nuisance. I'm just glad to be back on grass that is more green than brown, so I'll take it.
Posted by scleme1 on July 8, 2015, at 12:31:02
In reply to Re: Akathisia? Restless Leg Syndrome? Need Some Advice, posted by bleauberry on July 6, 2015, at 10:48:23
I'm thinking I'm possibly dealing with an adrenal gland issue here. I went to the doc and had several tests performed on Monday. I was due for an overall wellness checkup, so I needed to go anyway. We'll see if those results show us anything. I've also been doing a lot of research, and it seems to me that the underlying cause of my problems is an adrenal gland issue. I will look into the 2 supplements you suggested. Also may consider some licorice root?
Is there an easy way to test and see if my adrenal glands are working properly? Could I confirm my suspicions through testing - definitively?
Thanks again to all who've helped. I feel like at least I have a few options to research for relief.
Posted by SLS on July 8, 2015, at 17:31:15
In reply to Thanks for the input bleauberry - Adrenal Glands!, posted by scleme1 on July 8, 2015, at 12:31:02
What about dysautonomia? With depression, there is a disturbance of the autonomic nervous system which usually skews the balance toward sympathetic and away from parasympathetic components. It would feel like "too much adrenaline", yet have nothing to do with a primary pathology in adrenal gland function.
Of course, I don't know how your system is currently functioning. I would be curious to know if you experience any of the following:
1. Dry mouth.
2. Constipation possibly with episodic diarrhea.
3. Dizziness.
4. Increased heart rate.
5. Heart palpitations.
6. Cold feet and hands.
7. Increased cortisol secretion.
8. Blurred vision.
10. Impotence.
12. Reduced sweating.
13. Disturbance in maintaining body temperature.
13. Mydriasis - dilated pupils of the eye.If several of these things apply, please post the results of your adrenal treatment strategy.
Thanks.
- Scott
Posted by bleauberry on July 11, 2015, at 16:39:08
In reply to Thanks for the input bleauberry - Adrenal Glands!, posted by scleme1 on July 8, 2015, at 12:31:02
My journeys suggest adrenal gland malfunction is common. And/or pituitary gland.
Saliva testing is accurate because you do a sample multiple times throughout a 24 hour period and then see your results on a graph....the curve of the day's cortisol is what is important....is it too low?...are the peaks and valleys in the wrong places? A blood draw won't show the daily pattern, only where it was at the time of testing.
Isocort helps a lot of people. Not me, but good for most. Licorice is a maybe, it is potent at a variety of different unrelated mechanisms and could accidentally confuse the picture. But it is a fantastic plant, one of the world's best, maybe try small or partial doses. Rhodiola helps to balance....calming at mid/high doses, more stimulating at low doses, balancing over all no matter what dose. Decent antidepressant too. Execllent for insomnia and anxiety after a few weeks at the right dose, but can worsen those in the beginning. A tricky one but a good one.
> I'm thinking I'm possibly dealing with an adrenal gland issue here. I went to the doc and had several tests performed on Monday. I was due for an overall wellness checkup, so I needed to go anyway. We'll see if those results show us anything. I've also been doing a lot of research, and it seems to me that the underlying cause of my problems is an adrenal gland issue. I will look into the 2 supplements you suggested. Also may consider some licorice root?
>
> Is there an easy way to test and see if my adrenal glands are working properly? Could I confirm my suspicions through testing - definitively?
>
> Thanks again to all who've helped. I feel like at least I have a few options to research for relief.
Posted by SLS on July 11, 2015, at 17:30:05
In reply to Re: Thanks for the input bleauberry - Adrenal Glands! » scleme1, posted by bleauberry on July 11, 2015, at 16:39:08
> My journeys suggest adrenal gland malfunction is common. And/or pituitary gland.
There is a pretty big difference between the adrenal glands and the pituitary gland. With major depressive disorder, there seems to be a dysregulation of the entire HPA (hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal) axis - starting with the hypothalamus in the brain, not with the pituitary or the adrenals. Of course, there are diseases that affect the latter two glands directly, some of which affect mood - Addison's for example. However, making a differential diagnosis is pretty straight forward.
http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/addisons-disease/basics/symptoms/con-20021340
I hope you remain in remission, Bleauberry. Obviously, you are doing everything right for yourself.
Scleme1 - Some herbs are helpful for depression and anxiety. Some not. Bleauberry knows more about them than Ido. I am very anxious to know what your doctors find. Be sure that there are no adverse interactions between the herbs you decide to use and any drugs you may be on. Please post your results. Good luck.
- Scott
Posted by phidippus on July 14, 2015, at 20:32:39
In reply to Akathisia? Restless Leg Syndrome? Need Some Advice, posted by scleme1 on June 29, 2015, at 17:09:09
What is the intensity of your 'excited' feelings?
Do you have any fears about going to sleep?
Eric
Posted by Scleme1 on July 15, 2015, at 19:52:07
In reply to Re: Akathisia? Restless Leg Syndrome? Need Some Advice » scleme1, posted by phidippus on July 14, 2015, at 20:32:39
i received my blood work test results back. Basically, my cholesterol is terrible and I'm low on B12 and D. My doctor has added Metformin ER 500mg, Simvastatin 20mg, Vitamin D (once weekly) and B12 shots (daily for a week) to my regimen. Here are the test results:
Total Cholesterol: 268
Triglycerides: 221
HDL: 32
VLDL: 44
LDL: 192
A1C: 6.0
Vitamin D: 24.5
Vitamin B12: 187
Magnesium: OK
Folic Acid: OKWould love to hear what you guys think about the results, and if you think the B12 deficiency could be contributing to my sleep problems. Thanks!
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