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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 21 of 21. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by kilo8 on May 5, 2015, at 22:49:22
Hi,
which drugs come to your mind when one wants to take a shot at modulating glutamate? I think that glutamate could be one of my issues cause ocd is linked to glutamate and Lexapro for example didn't help me at all with ocd.The problem which I see is that other than Lamictal there don't seem to be drugs which affect glutamate which are officially allowed for depression.
Stuff like riluzole isn't used for depression and getting it off-lable would be way too expensive if I had to pay it myself.I already tried Memantine and it didn't do much.
Then there's also Lyrica but Lyrica is too scary to me. I read it messes with your memory. I also dont know if Lyrica is even safe long term. I mean if benzos might cause dementia then what about Lyrica? I think that there's no way to really tell if Lyrica is safe on the long run.
Posted by burial on May 6, 2015, at 1:50:39
In reply to Possible drug approaches to hit Glutamate?, posted by kilo8 on May 5, 2015, at 22:49:22
i'm pretty sure serotonin 2a receptor has something to do with glutamate, maybe something that blocks it like mirtazapine?
Posted by SLS on May 6, 2015, at 11:24:25
In reply to Possible drug approaches to hit Glutamate?, posted by kilo8 on May 5, 2015, at 22:49:22
Lamotrigine (Lamictal) reduces glutamate efflux, perhaps secondary to the inhibition of sodium channels and could possibly inhibit AMPA receptors in limbic structures (ventral striatum). One researcher has indicated that N-acetylcysteine (NAC) can augment lamotrigine.
- Scott
Posted by Bill82 on May 6, 2015, at 23:13:33
In reply to Re: Possible drug approaches to hit Glutamate?, posted by SLS on May 6, 2015, at 11:24:25
Glutamate based drugs on the market currently are
1) Riluszole-hard to get prescribed and exspensive
2) memantine- shown some efgevtivness for OCD, but did not work for me, and seems to not have worked for you either.
3) Lamotragine-primarily based upon sodium channel blockade but also is a glutamate antagonist. Some reports of success with this drug in OCD.
4) topimirate-NMDA antagonist, but has shown to only affect compulsions in OCD and not obsessions. Also somewhat intolerable memory side effects
5) Amantadine-dopamine agonist(they think) and nmda antagonist similar to memantine but purported to affect different regions of the brain and therefore possibly different.
6) N Acytlc Cystine- supplement able to be bought over the counter, increases glutamate transmission, shown to have some effect in OCD
7) Glycine/Sarcosine- co agonist of glutamate at nmda receptor shown to have effects in some OCD patients as augmentation.
8) glyx13/rapastinel - new intravenously administered drug for depression also being looked at for OCD. Is a glycine site partial agonist.Think that's most of them could be more. I found none to help my OCD, and I like you was unresponsive to ssris. Also 5ht2a agonism over a long term setting downregulates glutamate transmission, so lexapro in a way does effect glutamate.
Another possibility is to use higher than normal doses of ssris if you tolerate them fairly well. For example, lexapro was shown to have best effect for OCD at doses around 40mg
5)
Posted by kilo8 on May 7, 2015, at 0:33:08
In reply to Re: Possible drug approaches to hit Glutamate?, posted by Bill82 on May 6, 2015, at 23:13:33
hello,
i didnt want to go higher than 20mg lexapro cause I worried about QT changes. lexapro can cause heart rhythm changes.
also when I got off the 20mg I had pretty bad withdrawal which lasted 2 months. I always got the brain zaps and this was really annoying. Going on a really high SSRI dose is dangerous in this sense cause of the withdrawal and I already tapered down the lexapro when I got off it.NAC doesnt seem to work for me.
I have Glycine at home but not tried it yet. I read in a study they took 60 grams! This is way too expensive. They also didnt tolerate it well.Amantadine isn't available anymore right? Hasn't it be forbidden?
Is Lamotrigine safer than Topiramate?
I'd try Lamo but what sucks is that my doc so far hesitated to prescribe it.
I also read at a psychiatrist's blog that Lamotrigine should not be mixed with Zoloft. He claimed that both drugs seem to interfere with each others metabolism and that this can cause toxic byproducts. I tried to find out more about this but wasn't able to. Since I wanted to try Zoloft next I dont know if I could even mix it with Lamictal.
But Zoloft is basically the only SSRI left. Prozac doesn't mix well with amphetamines and Fluvox doesn't mix with caffeine and I drink coffee. So basically only Zoloft is left.
Posted by Bill82 on May 7, 2015, at 6:42:22
In reply to Re: Possible drug approaches to hit Glutamate?, posted by kilo8 on May 7, 2015, at 0:33:08
Well if you really want relief I would try another ssri. Luvox would probably be very tolerable, as it it somewhat sedating at first. It would be worth a shot in my opinion possibly just trying back coffee(as what's more important coffee or mental health?) but there is also Zoloft. Regardless you will have to go higher than normal to find releif from symptoms most likely. Hope you get better
Posted by Jeroen on May 7, 2015, at 16:07:14
In reply to Re: Possible drug approaches to hit Glutamate?, posted by Bill82 on May 7, 2015, at 6:42:22
Hi there, my diagnosis is schizophrenia
and i responded to mincycline 50 mg twice daily, very well actually, but the side effects were too dangerous, if i take the med again might kill me so it's a no do, but i do know it works, i felt f***** myself and great again. Miracle
AMantadine had a simular effect but not like mino, and if i had taken it longer it would have caused psychosis
i took lamictal and that bugger caused tardive psychosis that is now been treated somewhat with abilify
Me and my nice pdoc are looking into Lithium and Saphris..Lithium also affect Glutamate somehow but i dunno how...
Brot any ideas?
Posted by phidippus on May 7, 2015, at 22:54:59
In reply to Possible drug approaches to hit Glutamate?, posted by kilo8 on May 5, 2015, at 22:49:22
> Then there's also Lyrica but Lyrica is too scary to me. I read it messes with your memory. I also dont know if Lyrica is even safe long term. I mean if benzos might cause dementia then what about Lyrica? I think that there's no way to really tell if Lyrica is safe on the long run.
Lyrica is a calcium channel blocker and has nothing to do with benzos. It doesn't mess with memory. I take it for my OCD.
Zonegran and Keppra also inhibit glutamate.
Eric
Posted by porkpiehat on May 8, 2015, at 11:56:53
In reply to Re: Possible drug approaches to hit Glutamate?, posted by SLS on May 6, 2015, at 11:24:25
> Lamotrigine (Lamictal) reduces glutamate efflux, perhaps secondary to the inhibition of sodium channels and could possibly inhibit AMPA receptors in limbic structures (ventral striatum). One researcher has indicated that N-acetylcysteine (NAC) can augment lamotrigine.
>
> - ScottScott I am thinking about adding sarcosine/NAC based on someone's suggestion that my feeling during days after of well-being is coming from a glutamate rebound. HOWEVER I'm currently taking lamictal...do you know if taking them both at the same time is dangerous or pointless?
Thanks
Posted by kilo8 on May 9, 2015, at 0:45:32
In reply to Re: Possible drug approaches to hit Glutamate?, posted by Bill82 on May 7, 2015, at 6:42:22
hello,
i started zoloft now. took 22,5 mg yesterday. moving to 50mg today. i need coffee and fluvox would be a real problem cause then you cant drink coffee.
Posted by phidippus on May 9, 2015, at 15:18:07
In reply to Re: Possible drug approaches to hit Glutamate?, posted by kilo8 on May 9, 2015, at 0:45:32
you can drink coffe on luvox. just gets an extra kick.
Eric
Posted by Bill82 on May 12, 2015, at 2:34:26
In reply to Re: Possible drug approaches to hit Glutamate? » kilo8, posted by phidippus on May 9, 2015, at 15:18:07
Caffeine interaction is over hyped, I did not notice much difference in all honestly when I took it.
Posted by kilo8 on May 12, 2015, at 19:02:13
In reply to Re: Possible drug approaches to hit Glutamate? » kilo8, posted by phidippus on May 7, 2015, at 22:54:59
Hello,
Lyrica also effects gaba but not the same way benzos do. But I still doubt if it's really safe on the long run. If benzos can cause dementia then lyrica might as well do it too.
Also lyrica has a real bad rep for making you dumb and messing with memory. Just google it.Is there any way to conclude from symptoms wether you have too much glutamate or not?
Posted by phidippus on May 13, 2015, at 12:16:58
In reply to Re: Possible drug approaches to hit Glutamate?, posted by kilo8 on May 12, 2015, at 19:02:13
While pregabalin is a structural derivative of the inhibitory neurotransmitter gammaaminobutyric acid (GABA), it does not bind directly to GABAA, GABAB, or benzodiazepine receptors, does not augment GABAA responses in cultured neurons, does not alter rat brain GABA concentration or have acute effects on GABA uptake or degradation. However, in cultured neurons prolonged application of pregabalin increases the density of GABA transporter protein and increases the rate of functional GABA transport.
There is no way to conclude from symptoms whether you have excessive glutamate.Eric
Posted by kilo8 on May 15, 2015, at 4:25:07
In reply to Re: Possible drug approaches to hit Glutamate? » kilo8, posted by phidippus on May 13, 2015, at 12:16:58
Hello,
but Lyrica has a pretty bad reputation also for causing withdrawal. I'm scared of it. I heard really bad stuff about it.
I also heard that it makes you dumb and forgetful which is also scary.
Posted by phidippus on May 18, 2015, at 10:08:42
In reply to Re: Possible drug approaches to hit Glutamate?, posted by kilo8 on May 15, 2015, at 4:25:07
Any drug can cause a withdrawal syndrome. I don't think Lyrica is any more likely than others to do so.
I certainly don't feel dumb and forgetful on it.
Eric
Posted by kilo8 on May 25, 2015, at 16:35:35
In reply to Re: Possible drug approaches to hit Glutamate? » kilo8, posted by phidippus on May 18, 2015, at 10:08:42
How much do you take?
And does it work for you? If yes, what does it do?
Does it erase fear?
Posted by phidippus on May 27, 2015, at 9:10:29
In reply to Re: Possible drug approaches to hit Glutamate?, posted by kilo8 on May 25, 2015, at 16:35:35
I take 600 mg of Lyrica. I use it for peripheral neuropathy, but it also benefits my anxiety.
It does not erase fear, but does reduce anxiety a great deal.
Eric
Posted by kilo8 on June 11, 2015, at 21:48:53
In reply to Re: Possible drug approaches to hit Glutamate? » kilo8, posted by phidippus on May 27, 2015, at 9:10:29
600mg is a lot. And you get no side effects? Is your memory still working? And what happens if you want to cut down the dose? Can you?
Posted by phidippus on June 12, 2015, at 14:40:35
In reply to Re: Possible drug approaches to hit Glutamate?, posted by kilo8 on June 11, 2015, at 21:48:53
I haven't noticed any side effects.
My memory is just fine.
I actually have cut down the dose and only noticed a slight increase in anxiety that went away in a couple days.
Are you wanting to take it for OCD?
Eric
Posted by kilo8 on June 12, 2015, at 20:06:55
In reply to Re: Possible drug approaches to hit Glutamate? » kilo8, posted by phidippus on June 12, 2015, at 14:40:35
No for GAD but I am really worried about lyrica especially because of addiction and dumbing down.
And who says it is really safe compared to benzos? If benzos could cause dementia why not also lyrica?
This is the end of the thread.
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