![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 66 to 90 of 97. Go back in thread:
Posted by SLS on October 28, 2012, at 12:49:01
In reply to Re: Academic exercise. » SLS, posted by Dinah on October 28, 2012, at 11:01:47
> To object to incivility and counter it is one thing. I intend to do that myself. But you'll never convince him of your point of view.
Which of my many points of view are you referring to here?
> And to try just hurts you,
Dinah - you don't know that.
> and the peacefulness of the board.
If my posts remain civil, but manage to hurt the peacefulness of the board, why would you lobby me to discontinue such behavior?
> I tried myself, and have given up entirely.
It is not my objective to change Lou so much as it is to offer challenges to his contentions and conclusions regarding the use of psychiatric drugs in the practice of psychiatry. I consider my agenda here to be in the best interests of the health of the board. I could be wrong, of course.
> I fear that often people see Lou's posts as the result of maliciousness. Perhaps I'm wrong. But people respond as if he's intentionally setting out to upset them.I can understand how people might react that way. It would be like my calling Lou Pilder mentally ill. If I were to do so, it would not be out of malice. However, I am under the impression that Lou would think that it was. He might even conclude that I am intentionally setting out to upset him. I am not.
> I think it might be helpful to point out his actual motivations. In this culture, people might consider that indicative of mental illness. In other cultures, it likely would not have been perceived that way.
>
> However people perceive it, whether as a mission from God or a delusion, I think it might lead to less on board discord to understand Lou's motivations.It does not take an explanation of perceived divine revelations to assert that Lou Pilder's intentions are honorable rather than malicious. Do you think it possible that Lou has delusions, or is it only other people who do? Would it be uncivil to suggest such a thing?
- Scott
Posted by Dinah on October 28, 2012, at 12:50:25
In reply to Re: Academic exercise. » Dinah, posted by schleprock on October 28, 2012, at 12:39:39
Sometimes the truth of a person's beliefs don't matter as much as understanding the person's actions in terms of their beliefs.
It's possible to show interest in a person's beliefs without trying to change them. And what possible way would we have of changing anyone's beliefs?
At this point, I'm just trying to understand so as to consider what possibilities (if any) there may be to ending the discord that currently exists on the board. I just want Babble to be a more pleasant place to be.
Posted by Dinah on October 28, 2012, at 12:57:43
In reply to Re: Academic exercise. » Dinah, posted by SLS on October 28, 2012, at 12:49:01
I've already said that if I myself were to meet with the Rider, I'd likely take myself to a mental hospital.
But I concede that I wouldn't much like people discussing my sanity around me, or suggesting that I was delusional except perhaps in the most matter of fact way of suggesting that help was at hand. Not even as I was on my way to the hospital.
I just want it to be a pleasant place to post again, and am looking for solutions that arrive at that end.
Likely it's as quixotic a quest as my previous one with Lou.
Posted by Dinah on October 28, 2012, at 13:27:41
In reply to Re: Academic exercise. » Dinah, posted by SLS on October 28, 2012, at 12:49:01
I hope you know it wasn't my intent to criticize or insult you.
I think you, more than most, have a similar view of the situation as I do. That there are dueling interests here, and that we want to try to find a resolution that respects all interests.
I appreciate your efforts to bring tranquility to the boards. I admire you no end. I've seen you graciously field comments that distressed me to just see made to you.
Posted by SLS on October 28, 2012, at 13:36:48
In reply to Re: Academic exercise. » SLS, posted by Dinah on October 28, 2012, at 12:57:43
> I just want it to be a pleasant place to post again, and am looking for solutions that arrive at that end.
Generalizations and exaggerations are no longer proscribed through moderation on Psycho-Babble. It is my opinion that Lou Pilder's posts regarding psychiatric drugs would be judged uncivil were a moderator present. Such a determination would in no way represent a judgment regarding Mr. Pilder's mental health.
I think I've said all that I would like to along this thread.
> Likely it's as quixotic a quest as my previous one with Lou.
It's a dirty job, but someone's got to do it.
:-)
- Scott
Posted by SLS on October 28, 2012, at 13:59:56
In reply to Re: Academic exercise. » SLS, posted by Dinah on October 28, 2012, at 13:27:41
Okay - maybe one more post...
> I hope you know it wasn't my intent to criticize or insult you.
I did feel challenged by you, but not insulted. I guess we have a mutual admiration thing happening here. I do appreciate your consistently honorable motivations and the sobriety with which you deliberate matters. I gave you a lot of crap, and you didn't flinch.
> I think you, more than most, have a similar view of the situation as I do. That there are dueling interests here, and that we want to try to find a resolution that respects all interests.I cannot now think of one other than to petition Dr. Bob to return to actively moderating Psycho-Babble. Of course, he would have to do it my way. :-)
We should probably continue this exchange on the Administration board.
- Scott
Posted by Dinah on October 28, 2012, at 14:30:01
In reply to Re: Academic exercise. » Dinah, posted by SLS on October 28, 2012, at 13:59:56
As you've seen lately, I do have my moments. When buttons get pressed, I'm not always all that civil. Or at least not always when I'm feeling impotent and without recourse.
It probably should be moved to Admin. In fact, the rigorous moving of posts to Faith, Politics, or Admin might go a long way towards making Medication more pleasant.
But I wouldn't count on Dr. Bob doing anything at all. Though he does seem to fix broken technical things. I think we'll have to provide any solutions. And frankly, I don't think that's feasible, since all we have is words.
Posted by schleprock on October 28, 2012, at 16:11:40
In reply to Re: Academic exercise. » SLS, posted by Dinah on October 28, 2012, at 14:30:01
> As you've seen lately, I do have my moments. When buttons get pressed, I'm not always all that civil. Or at least not always when I'm feeling impotent and without recourse.
>
> It probably should be moved to Admin. In fact, the rigorous moving of posts to Faith, Politics, or Admin might go a long way towards making Medication more pleasant.
>
> But I wouldn't count on Dr. Bob doing anything at all. Though he does seem to fix broken technical things. I think we'll have to provide any solutions. And frankly, I don't think that's feasible, since all we have is words.You scared them away Lou. What do you have to say for yourself now?
Posted by schleprock on October 28, 2012, at 17:09:01
In reply to Lou's reply- » Dinah, posted by Lou Pilder on October 28, 2012, at 10:50:12
> > I'm not trying to be sarcastic. I'd really like to know.
> >
> > Is the Rider God? Did he charge you with a mission directly to Babble, or did you take that mission on yourself? Did the Rider give you specific instructions? Does he have ongoing conversations with you about your progress here? How do you understand on a day by day basis how he feels about your posts? Does he tell you how to interpret Babblers' posts, or is that your own interpretation?
> >
> > Do you understand your mission to be to save Babblers from the shackles of addiction to psych meds? Or do you consider it to be to save them from the Lake of Fire? Does addiction put one in the Lake of Fire? Wouldn't the Lake of Fire be reserved for the truly wicked?
> >
> > I could be mistaken. It's been a while since you spoke of your vision. Are Babblers concerned with the lake of fire at all? And wasn't there a boneyard beyond the lake of fire?
>
> D,
> Is this the post?
> Lou
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20111110/msgs/1002289.htmlLou, why do you purport to have had revelations based on the foundations of Judaism when these revelations borrow so much from Christianity?
1. Lake of fire: borrowed by Christians from Greek conceptions of Hades. Traditional Judaism during and before Jesus time had a very vague at best belief in a neutral afterlife (if at all) that shared no imagery with current beleiefs of heaven and hell. (See Sheol)
2. Rider on white horse: no idea if the imagery is used in the Old Testament, could be referring to either death (pale horse) or maybe Christ as described in the book of revelations.
3. Son of Man: certainly a Christian phrase (reference to Christ). Might be found in the Old Testament, but probably bears little relevance to Jews today.
4. House of Lost Sheep: definite reference taken from the new testament, possibly verbatim. Very close relation to the parable of the prodigal son.
5. Flesh\Spirit dichotomy: not very prominant in the Old Testament. Something that was really more developed in Greece. Again, not very relevant in a culture with a very vague and underdeveloped eschatology.
6. Resurrection: Absolutely not a core Jewish belief. The only case of resurrection to occur in the Old Testament were Job's sons. This concept is essentially what made Christianity what it is, and what sharply divided it from Judaism.
7. Heaven: see number 6.
Lou, I don't know whether these are intended as metaphors or anything, but they certainly don't evoke the foundations of Judaism. Have you considered the possibility that these revelations were intended to motivate you to convert to Christianity in addition to starting your ministry? Maybe you know this deep down inside and it's causing you to project all this antisemitism on this forum, beacuse you're really scared of abandoning your Judaism. But Lou, you don't really come across as "semetic."
Posted by Lou Pilder on October 28, 2012, at 17:09:42
In reply to Re: Academic exercise., posted by schleprock on October 28, 2012, at 16:11:40
> > As you've seen lately, I do have my moments. When buttons get pressed, I'm not always all that civil. Or at least not always when I'm feeling impotent and without recourse.
> >
> > It probably should be moved to Admin. In fact, the rigorous moving of posts to Faith, Politics, or Admin might go a long way towards making Medication more pleasant.
> >
> > But I wouldn't count on Dr. Bob doing anything at all. Though he does seem to fix broken technical things. I think we'll have to provide any solutions. And frankly, I don't think that's feasible, since all we have is words.
>
> You scared them away Lou. What do you have to say for yourself now?schleprock,
Please do not post statements here that could lead one to think that you are using me as a scapegoat. The use of scapegoating can be from hatred toward the person that the scapegoating is directed to.
This is now allowed by Mr Hsiung for you to post such, but that does not annul the fact that Jews are very sensitive to any statement of scapegoating directed to them. Mr Hsiung has allowed this. That does not ligitimize the damage to me that it is causing. And Mr Hsiung states that he does what in his thinking will be good for this community as a whole. If you think that scapegoating will be good for this community as a whole, then hate is good for this community as a whole, for scapegoating comes from anger with someone which is what hate is.
Lou
Posted by Phillipa on October 28, 2012, at 20:32:48
In reply to Lou's reply-dvnrev » SLS, posted by Lou Pilder on October 28, 2012, at 10:12:04
When one says something about another that is slander, when one writes it it is libel. I used to testify in malpractic suits. I'm used to working with lawyers, giving depositions, and testifying in court. Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on October 28, 2012, at 20:49:59
In reply to Re: Lou's reply-dvnrev » Lou Pilder, posted by Phillipa on October 28, 2012, at 20:32:48
Also what about Buddism, Mormons, Jehovah's Wittness's dont they all have their own belief? What about atheism. If can't see it it doesn't exist. Phillipa
Posted by Lou Pilder on October 28, 2012, at 21:55:10
In reply to Re: Lou's reply- » Lou Pilder, posted by schleprock on October 28, 2012, at 17:09:01
> > > I'm not trying to be sarcastic. I'd really like to know.
> > >
> > > Is the Rider God? Did he charge you with a mission directly to Babble, or did you take that mission on yourself? Did the Rider give you specific instructions? Does he have ongoing conversations with you about your progress here? How do you understand on a day by day basis how he feels about your posts? Does he tell you how to interpret Babblers' posts, or is that your own interpretation?
> > >
> > > Do you understand your mission to be to save Babblers from the shackles of addiction to psych meds? Or do you consider it to be to save them from the Lake of Fire? Does addiction put one in the Lake of Fire? Wouldn't the Lake of Fire be reserved for the truly wicked?
> > >
> > > I could be mistaken. It's been a while since you spoke of your vision. Are Babblers concerned with the lake of fire at all? And wasn't there a boneyard beyond the lake of fire?
> >
> > D,
> > Is this the post?
> > Lou
> > http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20111110/msgs/1002289.html
>
> Lou, why do you purport to have had revelations based on the foundations of Judaism when these revelations borrow so much from Christianity?
>
> 1. Lake of fire: borrowed by Christians from Greek conceptions of Hades. Traditional Judaism during and before Jesus time had a very vague at best belief in a neutral afterlife (if at all) that shared no imagery with current beleiefs of heaven and hell. (See Sheol)
>
> 2. Rider on white horse: no idea if the imagery is used in the Old Testament, could be referring to either death (pale horse) or maybe Christ as described in the book of revelations.
>
> 3. Son of Man: certainly a Christian phrase (reference to Christ). Might be found in the Old Testament, but probably bears little relevance to Jews today.
>
> 4. House of Lost Sheep: definite reference taken from the new testament, possibly verbatim. Very close relation to the parable of the prodigal son.
>
> 5. Flesh\Spirit dichotomy: not very prominant in the Old Testament. Something that was really more developed in Greece. Again, not very relevant in a culture with a very vague and underdeveloped eschatology.
>
> 6. Resurrection: Absolutely not a core Jewish belief. The only case of resurrection to occur in the Old Testament were Job's sons. This concept is essentially what made Christianity what it is, and what sharply divided it from Judaism.
>
> 7. Heaven: see number 6.
>
> Lou, I don't know whether these are intended as metaphors or anything, but they certainly don't evoke the foundations of Judaism. Have you considered the possibility that these revelations were intended to motivate you to convert to Christianity in addition to starting your ministry? Maybe you know this deep down inside and it's causing you to project all this antisemitism on this forum, beacuse you're really scared of abandoning your Judaism. But Lou, you don't really come across as "semetic."schleprock,
You wrote a lot here that I would like to answer. But first, I need to know what you want to mean concerning,[...project all this antisemitism...]
What I am trying to do is stop Mr Hsiung from allowing statements that could arouse antisemitic feelings from being allowed to stand. You see, what I could say to lead people to be free from depression and addiction depends on stopping the encouragment of antisemitism that happens when antisemitic statements here are allowed to stand. This is because Mr Hsiung states that support takes precedence and that one match could start a forest fire. This means that there is the potential for statements that could arouse antisemitic feelings that are allowed to stand to lead peole to think that antisemitism is supportive here and since Mr Hsiung states that he does what in his thinking will be good for this community as a whole, people could think to collaborate with him and post more antisemitism and hatred toward the Jews and then I could become a victim of antisemitic violence as well as myself not being allowed to share my perspective here, leavng only what Mr Hsiung will allow others here to know. So the antisemitic statements, unless sanctioned here, essentually prevent me from offering a way that could free people from addiction and depression from my perspective, which is from a Jewish perspective.
So is what you posted what you wanted to post?
Lou
Posted by schleprock on October 28, 2012, at 22:46:25
In reply to Lou's reply-clarify » schleprock, posted by Lou Pilder on October 28, 2012, at 21:55:10
> > > > I'm not trying to be sarcastic. I'd really like to know.
> > > >
> > > > Is the Rider God? Did he charge you with a mission directly to Babble, or did you take that mission on yourself? Did the Rider give you specific instructions? Does he have ongoing conversations with you about your progress here? How do you understand on a day by day basis how he feels about your posts? Does he tell you how to interpret Babblers' posts, or is that your own interpretation?
> > > >
> > > > Do you understand your mission to be to save Babblers from the shackles of addiction to psych meds? Or do you consider it to be to save them from the Lake of Fire? Does addiction put one in the Lake of Fire? Wouldn't the Lake of Fire be reserved for the truly wicked?
> > > >
> > > > I could be mistaken. It's been a while since you spoke of your vision. Are Babblers concerned with the lake of fire at all? And wasn't there a boneyard beyond the lake of fire?
> > >
> > > D,
> > > Is this the post?
> > > Lou
> > > http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20111110/msgs/1002289.html
> >
> > Lou, why do you purport to have had revelations based on the foundations of Judaism when these revelations borrow so much from Christianity?
> >
> > 1. Lake of fire: borrowed by Christians from Greek conceptions of Hades. Traditional Judaism during and before Jesus time had a very vague at best belief in a neutral afterlife (if at all) that shared no imagery with current beleiefs of heaven and hell. (See Sheol)
> >
> > 2. Rider on white horse: no idea if the imagery is used in the Old Testament, could be referring to either death (pale horse) or maybe Christ as described in the book of revelations.
> >
> > 3. Son of Man: certainly a Christian phrase (reference to Christ). Might be found in the Old Testament, but probably bears little relevance to Jews today.
> >
> > 4. House of Lost Sheep: definite reference taken from the new testament, possibly verbatim. Very close relation to the parable of the prodigal son.
> >
> > 5. Flesh\Spirit dichotomy: not very prominant in the Old Testament. Something that was really more developed in Greece. Again, not very relevant in a culture with a very vague and underdeveloped eschatology.
> >
> > 6. Resurrection: Absolutely not a core Jewish belief. The only case of resurrection to occur in the Old Testament were Job's sons. This concept is essentially what made Christianity what it is, and what sharply divided it from Judaism.
> >
> > 7. Heaven: see number 6.
> >
> > Lou, I don't know whether these are intended as metaphors or anything, but they certainly don't evoke the foundations of Judaism. Have you considered the possibility that these revelations were intended to motivate you to convert to Christianity in addition to starting your ministry? Maybe you know this deep down inside and it's causing you to project all this antisemitism on this forum, beacuse you're really scared of abandoning your Judaism. But Lou, you don't really come across as "semetic."
>
> schleprock,
> You wrote a lot here that I would like to answer. But first, I need to know what you want to mean concerning,[...project all this antisemitism...]
> What I am trying to do is stop Mr Hsiung from allowing statements that could arouse antisemitic feelings from being allowed to stand. You see, what I could say to lead people to be free from depression and addiction depends on stopping the encouragment of antisemitism that happens when antisemitic statements here are allowed to stand. This is because Mr Hsiung states that support takes precedence and that one match could start a forest fire. This means that there is the potential for statements that could arouse antisemitic feelings that are allowed to stand to lead peole to think that antisemitism is supportive here and since Mr Hsiung states that he does what in his thinking will be good for this community as a whole, people could think to collaborate with him and post more antisemitism and hatred toward the Jews and then I could become a victim of antisemitic violence as well as myself not being allowed to share my perspective here, leavng only what Mr Hsiung will allow others here to know. So the antisemitic statements, unless sanctioned here, essentually prevent me from offering a way that could free people from addiction and depression from my perspective, which is from a Jewish perspective.
> So is what you posted what you wanted to post?
> LouHave you ever wondered why God would send to a forum to deliver your revelation that is a known wretched hive of antisemitism and villainy? Christ and his disciples were also sent to places to deliver their ministry that would violently reject their message, and you know what happened to them. Christ did not let the cup pass, nor wait 8 years for a response regarding the rampant antichristianity in Roman dominated Jewish villages. Maybe the idea is to be brave and deliver your message despite the rampant antisemitism, even if your message has the indirect consequences of provoking more antisemitism and violence. Perhaps it's important enough for that. You certainly wouldn't deny that God had the omniscience to know you would experience antisemitic reactions on psychobabble, just as Jesus knew he would be crucified. But perhaps this need not be every prophets path, and maybe some sort of compromise is acceptable in delivering the revelation. Perhaps, in an effort to keep you and others from experiencing physical harm from rampant antisemitism that Mr. Hsuing, either intentionally or unintentionally, is unable to contain, God gave you the revelation in a form bearing many Christian motifs, so to disguise their Jewish roots and therefore avoid the arousal of antisemitism. Maybe it is not your destiny to be crucified, as long as you modify your current behavior. The book of revelations was written in metaphors so to deceive the Roman oppresors of early Christianity. Perhaps, if you're clever enough, you can deliver your message in a similar fashion, and thus deceive Dr. Hsuing and all the antisimetic members of this forum (who would seem to compose the majority.) Maybe it's time to fight Mr. Hsuings sorcery with some sorcery of your own!
Posted by Lou Pilder on October 28, 2012, at 23:17:53
In reply to Re: Lou's reply-clarify, posted by schleprock on October 28, 2012, at 22:46:25
> > > > > I'm not trying to be sarcastic. I'd really like to know.
> > > > >
> > > > > Is the Rider God? Did he charge you with a mission directly to Babble, or did you take that mission on yourself? Did the Rider give you specific instructions? Does he have ongoing conversations with you about your progress here? How do you understand on a day by day basis how he feels about your posts? Does he tell you how to interpret Babblers' posts, or is that your own interpretation?
> > > > >
> > > > > Do you understand your mission to be to save Babblers from the shackles of addiction to psych meds? Or do you consider it to be to save them from the Lake of Fire? Does addiction put one in the Lake of Fire? Wouldn't the Lake of Fire be reserved for the truly wicked?
> > > > >
> > > > > I could be mistaken. It's been a while since you spoke of your vision. Are Babblers concerned with the lake of fire at all? And wasn't there a boneyard beyond the lake of fire?
> > > >
> > > > D,
> > > > Is this the post?
> > > > Lou
> > > > http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20111110/msgs/1002289.html
> > >
> > > Lou, why do you purport to have had revelations based on the foundations of Judaism when these revelations borrow so much from Christianity?
> > >
> > > 1. Lake of fire: borrowed by Christians from Greek conceptions of Hades. Traditional Judaism during and before Jesus time had a very vague at best belief in a neutral afterlife (if at all) that shared no imagery with current beleiefs of heaven and hell. (See Sheol)
> > >
> > > 2. Rider on white horse: no idea if the imagery is used in the Old Testament, could be referring to either death (pale horse) or maybe Christ as described in the book of revelations.
> > >
> > > 3. Son of Man: certainly a Christian phrase (reference to Christ). Might be found in the Old Testament, but probably bears little relevance to Jews today.
> > >
> > > 4. House of Lost Sheep: definite reference taken from the new testament, possibly verbatim. Very close relation to the parable of the prodigal son.
> > >
> > > 5. Flesh\Spirit dichotomy: not very prominant in the Old Testament. Something that was really more developed in Greece. Again, not very relevant in a culture with a very vague and underdeveloped eschatology.
> > >
> > > 6. Resurrection: Absolutely not a core Jewish belief. The only case of resurrection to occur in the Old Testament were Job's sons. This concept is essentially what made Christianity what it is, and what sharply divided it from Judaism.
> > >
> > > 7. Heaven: see number 6.
> > >
> > > Lou, I don't know whether these are intended as metaphors or anything, but they certainly don't evoke the foundations of Judaism. Have you considered the possibility that these revelations were intended to motivate you to convert to Christianity in addition to starting your ministry? Maybe you know this deep down inside and it's causing you to project all this antisemitism on this forum, beacuse you're really scared of abandoning your Judaism. But Lou, you don't really come across as "semetic."
> >
> > schleprock,
> > You wrote a lot here that I would like to answer. But first, I need to know what you want to mean concerning,[...project all this antisemitism...]
> > What I am trying to do is stop Mr Hsiung from allowing statements that could arouse antisemitic feelings from being allowed to stand. You see, what I could say to lead people to be free from depression and addiction depends on stopping the encouragment of antisemitism that happens when antisemitic statements here are allowed to stand. This is because Mr Hsiung states that support takes precedence and that one match could start a forest fire. This means that there is the potential for statements that could arouse antisemitic feelings that are allowed to stand to lead peole to think that antisemitism is supportive here and since Mr Hsiung states that he does what in his thinking will be good for this community as a whole, people could think to collaborate with him and post more antisemitism and hatred toward the Jews and then I could become a victim of antisemitic violence as well as myself not being allowed to share my perspective here, leavng only what Mr Hsiung will allow others here to know. So the antisemitic statements, unless sanctioned here, essentually prevent me from offering a way that could free people from addiction and depression from my perspective, which is from a Jewish perspective.
> > So is what you posted what you wanted to post?
> > Lou
>
> Have you ever wondered why God would send to a forum to deliver your revelation that is a known wretched hive of antisemitism and villainy? Christ and his disciples were also sent to places to deliver their ministry that would violently reject their message, and you know what happened to them. Christ did not let the cup pass, nor wait 8 years for a response regarding the rampant antichristianity in Roman dominated Jewish villages. Maybe the idea is to be brave and deliver your message despite the rampant antisemitism, even if your message has the indirect consequences of provoking more antisemitism and violence. Perhaps it's important enough for that. You certainly wouldn't deny that God had the omniscience to know you would experience antisemitic reactions on psychobabble, just as Jesus knew he would be crucified. But perhaps this need not be every prophets path, and maybe some sort of compromise is acceptable in delivering the revelation. Perhaps, in an effort to keep you and others from experiencing physical harm from rampant antisemitism that Mr. Hsuing, either intentionally or unintentionally, is unable to contain, God gave you the revelation in a form bearing many Christian motifs, so to disguise their Jewish roots and therefore avoid the arousal of antisemitism. Maybe it is not your destiny to be crucified, as long as you modify your current behavior. The book of revelations was written in metaphors so to deceive the Roman oppresors of early Christianity. Perhaps, if you're clever enough, you can deliver your message in a similar fashion, and thus deceive Dr. Hsuing and all the antisimetic members of this forum (who would seem to compose the majority.) Maybe it's time to fight Mr. Hsuings sorcery with some sorcery of your own!schleprock,
You wrote the above. There is a lot of aspects to your post that I would like to respond to.
But let us look at things here. There are people that are living in a death-state here, wanting to be free from the addiction of these drugs being allowed to be promoted as going to be antidepressants and such. But the facts speak for themselves, for looking at the posts here there are thoe that have tried the drugs and want a way out. I know of a way out. But this revelation hinges on the foundation of Judaism and you saw the post with the prohibition to me from Mr Hsiung and you posted to it and it is on the top of the admin board here saying a big hello from 2012. If you could post here what you mean by that, I would appreciate it.
But to go on, I have been talking about Noah here and the flood and the ark. An like in the days of Noah when they mocked and taunted him and ridiculed him, he went on with the building of the ark because he had revelation from God to do so. Now Jonah did not want to be sent to Ninaveh and was swallowed by a great fish and taken thewre and spit up on the beach. Noe Jesus of Nazereth I have not talked about here yet. But I have talked about Mekchizedek. The point here is that I know what there is here like you say. I know that there is persecution ahead and I have ben there before. I know how hate is promulgted toward someone. The process is ancient. First the leaders arpouse anger toward te target person. They do this by scapegoating and saying that the person will ruin the ommunity or it is hiis fault for there whatever. Then when enough anger is aroused toward that person a venue of spewing that anger out to the person is provided. That is what hate is, the anger that is fomented by the leader or leaders of the community. Then the leader could collaborate with the members and lead tham to think that they will be doig good for the commiunty if they attack the targeted person. This has been carried out historically for millimium.
Now Mr Hsiung calls me the Prince of Death and leaves the hatred toward me here unsanctioned.
BUt as Noah went on building the ark, so will I go on. And it took Noah 100 years to build the ark. I know a hard rain is gonna fall here. The skys are dark now and I perceive the winds of death permeateing the land here. I see those that are scoffing being led to hate me, but I am also building an ark, an ark that could lift them out of the darkness and into the light of life. When the rains come hard and the fountains of the deep are opened, the door may be shut to those here.
Lou
Posted by schleprock on October 28, 2012, at 23:44:42
In reply to Lou's reply-gonafal » schleprock, posted by Lou Pilder on October 28, 2012, at 23:17:53
> > > > > > I'm not trying to be sarcastic. I'd really like to know.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Is the Rider God? Did he charge you with a mission directly to Babble, or did you take that mission on yourself? Did the Rider give you specific instructions? Does he have ongoing conversations with you about your progress here? How do you understand on a day by day basis how he feels about your posts? Does he tell you how to interpret Babblers' posts, or is that your own interpretation?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Do you understand your mission to be to save Babblers from the shackles of addiction to psych meds? Or do you consider it to be to save them from the Lake of Fire? Does addiction put one in the Lake of Fire? Wouldn't the Lake of Fire be reserved for the truly wicked?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I could be mistaken. It's been a while since you spoke of your vision. Are Babblers concerned with the lake of fire at all? And wasn't there a boneyard beyond the lake of fire?
> > > > >
> > > > > D,
> > > > > Is this the post?
> > > > > Lou
> > > > > http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20111110/msgs/1002289.html
> > > >
> > > > Lou, why do you purport to have had revelations based on the foundations of Judaism when these revelations borrow so much from Christianity?
> > > >
> > > > 1. Lake of fire: borrowed by Christians from Greek conceptions of Hades. Traditional Judaism during and before Jesus time had a very vague at best belief in a neutral afterlife (if at all) that shared no imagery with current beleiefs of heaven and hell. (See Sheol)
> > > >
> > > > 2. Rider on white horse: no idea if the imagery is used in the Old Testament, could be referring to either death (pale horse) or maybe Christ as described in the book of revelations.
> > > >
> > > > 3. Son of Man: certainly a Christian phrase (reference to Christ). Might be found in the Old Testament, but probably bears little relevance to Jews today.
> > > >
> > > > 4. House of Lost Sheep: definite reference taken from the new testament, possibly verbatim. Very close relation to the parable of the prodigal son.
> > > >
> > > > 5. Flesh\Spirit dichotomy: not very prominant in the Old Testament. Something that was really more developed in Greece. Again, not very relevant in a culture with a very vague and underdeveloped eschatology.
> > > >
> > > > 6. Resurrection: Absolutely not a core Jewish belief. The only case of resurrection to occur in the Old Testament were Job's sons. This concept is essentially what made Christianity what it is, and what sharply divided it from Judaism.
> > > >
> > > > 7. Heaven: see number 6.
> > > >
> > > > Lou, I don't know whether these are intended as metaphors or anything, but they certainly don't evoke the foundations of Judaism. Have you considered the possibility that these revelations were intended to motivate you to convert to Christianity in addition to starting your ministry? Maybe you know this deep down inside and it's causing you to project all this antisemitism on this forum, beacuse you're really scared of abandoning your Judaism. But Lou, you don't really come across as "semetic."
> > >
> > > schleprock,
> > > You wrote a lot here that I would like to answer. But first, I need to know what you want to mean concerning,[...project all this antisemitism...]
> > > What I am trying to do is stop Mr Hsiung from allowing statements that could arouse antisemitic feelings from being allowed to stand. You see, what I could say to lead people to be free from depression and addiction depends on stopping the encouragment of antisemitism that happens when antisemitic statements here are allowed to stand. This is because Mr Hsiung states that support takes precedence and that one match could start a forest fire. This means that there is the potential for statements that could arouse antisemitic feelings that are allowed to stand to lead peole to think that antisemitism is supportive here and since Mr Hsiung states that he does what in his thinking will be good for this community as a whole, people could think to collaborate with him and post more antisemitism and hatred toward the Jews and then I could become a victim of antisemitic violence as well as myself not being allowed to share my perspective here, leavng only what Mr Hsiung will allow others here to know. So the antisemitic statements, unless sanctioned here, essentually prevent me from offering a way that could free people from addiction and depression from my perspective, which is from a Jewish perspective.
> > > So is what you posted what you wanted to post?
> > > Lou
> >
> > Have you ever wondered why God would send to a forum to deliver your revelation that is a known wretched hive of antisemitism and villainy? Christ and his disciples were also sent to places to deliver their ministry that would violently reject their message, and you know what happened to them. Christ did not let the cup pass, nor wait 8 years for a response regarding the rampant antichristianity in Roman dominated Jewish villages. Maybe the idea is to be brave and deliver your message despite the rampant antisemitism, even if your message has the indirect consequences of provoking more antisemitism and violence. Perhaps it's important enough for that. You certainly wouldn't deny that God had the omniscience to know you would experience antisemitic reactions on psychobabble, just as Jesus knew he would be crucified. But perhaps this need not be every prophets path, and maybe some sort of compromise is acceptable in delivering the revelation. Perhaps, in an effort to keep you and others from experiencing physical harm from rampant antisemitism that Mr. Hsuing, either intentionally or unintentionally, is unable to contain, God gave you the revelation in a form bearing many Christian motifs, so to disguise their Jewish roots and therefore avoid the arousal of antisemitism. Maybe it is not your destiny to be crucified, as long as you modify your current behavior. The book of revelations was written in metaphors so to deceive the Roman oppresors of early Christianity. Perhaps, if you're clever enough, you can deliver your message in a similar fashion, and thus deceive Dr. Hsuing and all the antisimetic members of this forum (who would seem to compose the majority.) Maybe it's time to fight Mr. Hsuings sorcery with some sorcery of your own!
>
> schleprock,
> You wrote the above. There is a lot of aspects to your post that I would like to respond to.
> But let us look at things here. There are people that are living in a death-state here, wanting to be free from the addiction of these drugs being allowed to be promoted as going to be antidepressants and such. But the facts speak for themselves, for looking at the posts here there are thoe that have tried the drugs and want a way out. I know of a way out. But this revelation hinges on the foundation of Judaism and you saw the post with the prohibition to me from Mr Hsiung and you posted to it and it is on the top of the admin board here saying a big hello from 2012. If you could post here what you mean by that, I would appreciate it.
> But to go on, I have been talking about Noah here and the flood and the ark. An like in the days of Noah when they mocked and taunted him and ridiculed him, he went on with the building of the ark because he had revelation from God to do so. Now Jonah did not want to be sent to Ninaveh and was swallowed by a great fish and taken thewre and spit up on the beach. Noe Jesus of Nazereth I have not talked about here yet. But I have talked about Mekchizedek. The point here is that I know what there is here like you say. I know that there is persecution ahead and I have ben there before. I know how hate is promulgted toward someone. The process is ancient. First the leaders arpouse anger toward te target person. They do this by scapegoating and saying that the person will ruin the ommunity or it is hiis fault for there whatever. Then when enough anger is aroused toward that person a venue of spewing that anger out to the person is provided. That is what hate is, the anger that is fomented by the leader or leaders of the community. Then the leader could collaborate with the members and lead tham to think that they will be doig good for the commiunty if they attack the targeted person. This has been carried out historically for millimium.
> Now Mr Hsiung calls me the Prince of Death and leaves the hatred toward me here unsanctioned.
> BUt as Noah went on building the ark, so will I go on. And it took Noah 100 years to build the ark. I know a hard rain is gonna fall here. The skys are dark now and I perceive the winds of death permeateing the land here. I see those that are scoffing being led to hate me, but I am also building an ark, an ark that could lift them out of the darkness and into the light of life. When the rains come hard and the fountains of the deep are opened, the door may be shut to those here.
> LouLou, did God send Christ and his disciples all over Palestine and beyond to protest their treatment by the orthodox and the Romans, or to preach about God's love and "the kingdom"? Would there be such a thing as Christianity today were that the case? Similarly, did God send you to dr-bob.org to protest anti-semitism, or to deliver your revelations concerning mind-altering drugs and those on them who urgently need to be free from them and the means to do this? The two are practically mutually exclusive. Like Noah, time is of the essence, and he doesn't have another eight years to get permission to finish the ark.
Lou, how many people have you killed over these eight years because you witheld information that could help them over a minor beurocratic technicality. What if Noah wasted his time over such things? Maybe we wouldn't have giraffes, or elephants, or platypusses (paltypi?)? Wouldn't that have been tragic! God chose you for this mission, and he expects you to carry it out! When it comes to people, God's judgements are infallible; after all, he invented them.
Who's more important to you Lou: Melvin Chizedeck or Mr. Hsuing. It's time to choose.
Posted by Lou Pilder on October 29, 2012, at 5:02:09
In reply to Re: Lou's reply-gonafal » Lou Pilder, posted by schleprock on October 28, 2012, at 23:44:42
> > > > > > > I'm not trying to be sarcastic. I'd really like to know.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Is the Rider God? Did he charge you with a mission directly to Babble, or did you take that mission on yourself? Did the Rider give you specific instructions? Does he have ongoing conversations with you about your progress here? How do you understand on a day by day basis how he feels about your posts? Does he tell you how to interpret Babblers' posts, or is that your own interpretation?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Do you understand your mission to be to save Babblers from the shackles of addiction to psych meds? Or do you consider it to be to save them from the Lake of Fire? Does addiction put one in the Lake of Fire? Wouldn't the Lake of Fire be reserved for the truly wicked?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I could be mistaken. It's been a while since you spoke of your vision. Are Babblers concerned with the lake of fire at all? And wasn't there a boneyard beyond the lake of fire?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > D,
> > > > > > Is this the post?
> > > > > > Lou
> > > > > > http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20111110/msgs/1002289.html
> > > > >
> > > > > Lou, why do you purport to have had revelations based on the foundations of Judaism when these revelations borrow so much from Christianity?
> > > > >
> > > > > 1. Lake of fire: borrowed by Christians from Greek conceptions of Hades. Traditional Judaism during and before Jesus time had a very vague at best belief in a neutral afterlife (if at all) that shared no imagery with current beleiefs of heaven and hell. (See Sheol)
> > > > >
> > > > > 2. Rider on white horse: no idea if the imagery is used in the Old Testament, could be referring to either death (pale horse) or maybe Christ as described in the book of revelations.
> > > > >
> > > > > 3. Son of Man: certainly a Christian phrase (reference to Christ). Might be found in the Old Testament, but probably bears little relevance to Jews today.
> > > > >
> > > > > 4. House of Lost Sheep: definite reference taken from the new testament, possibly verbatim. Very close relation to the parable of the prodigal son.
> > > > >
> > > > > 5. Flesh\Spirit dichotomy: not very prominant in the Old Testament. Something that was really more developed in Greece. Again, not very relevant in a culture with a very vague and underdeveloped eschatology.
> > > > >
> > > > > 6. Resurrection: Absolutely not a core Jewish belief. The only case of resurrection to occur in the Old Testament were Job's sons. This concept is essentially what made Christianity what it is, and what sharply divided it from Judaism.
> > > > >
> > > > > 7. Heaven: see number 6.
> > > > >
> > > > > Lou, I don't know whether these are intended as metaphors or anything, but they certainly don't evoke the foundations of Judaism. Have you considered the possibility that these revelations were intended to motivate you to convert to Christianity in addition to starting your ministry? Maybe you know this deep down inside and it's causing you to project all this antisemitism on this forum, beacuse you're really scared of abandoning your Judaism. But Lou, you don't really come across as "semetic."
> > > >
> > > > schleprock,
> > > > You wrote a lot here that I would like to answer. But first, I need to know what you want to mean concerning,[...project all this antisemitism...]
> > > > What I am trying to do is stop Mr Hsiung from allowing statements that could arouse antisemitic feelings from being allowed to stand. You see, what I could say to lead people to be free from depression and addiction depends on stopping the encouragment of antisemitism that happens when antisemitic statements here are allowed to stand. This is because Mr Hsiung states that support takes precedence and that one match could start a forest fire. This means that there is the potential for statements that could arouse antisemitic feelings that are allowed to stand to lead peole to think that antisemitism is supportive here and since Mr Hsiung states that he does what in his thinking will be good for this community as a whole, people could think to collaborate with him and post more antisemitism and hatred toward the Jews and then I could become a victim of antisemitic violence as well as myself not being allowed to share my perspective here, leavng only what Mr Hsiung will allow others here to know. So the antisemitic statements, unless sanctioned here, essentually prevent me from offering a way that could free people from addiction and depression from my perspective, which is from a Jewish perspective.
> > > > So is what you posted what you wanted to post?
> > > > Lou
> > >
> > > Have you ever wondered why God would send to a forum to deliver your revelation that is a known wretched hive of antisemitism and villainy? Christ and his disciples were also sent to places to deliver their ministry that would violently reject their message, and you know what happened to them. Christ did not let the cup pass, nor wait 8 years for a response regarding the rampant antichristianity in Roman dominated Jewish villages. Maybe the idea is to be brave and deliver your message despite the rampant antisemitism, even if your message has the indirect consequences of provoking more antisemitism and violence. Perhaps it's important enough for that. You certainly wouldn't deny that God had the omniscience to know you would experience antisemitic reactions on psychobabble, just as Jesus knew he would be crucified. But perhaps this need not be every prophets path, and maybe some sort of compromise is acceptable in delivering the revelation. Perhaps, in an effort to keep you and others from experiencing physical harm from rampant antisemitism that Mr. Hsuing, either intentionally or unintentionally, is unable to contain, God gave you the revelation in a form bearing many Christian motifs, so to disguise their Jewish roots and therefore avoid the arousal of antisemitism. Maybe it is not your destiny to be crucified, as long as you modify your current behavior. The book of revelations was written in metaphors so to deceive the Roman oppresors of early Christianity. Perhaps, if you're clever enough, you can deliver your message in a similar fashion, and thus deceive Dr. Hsuing and all the antisimetic members of this forum (who would seem to compose the majority.) Maybe it's time to fight Mr. Hsuings sorcery with some sorcery of your own!
> >
> > schleprock,
> > You wrote the above. There is a lot of aspects to your post that I would like to respond to.
> > But let us look at things here. There are people that are living in a death-state here, wanting to be free from the addiction of these drugs being allowed to be promoted as going to be antidepressants and such. But the facts speak for themselves, for looking at the posts here there are thoe that have tried the drugs and want a way out. I know of a way out. But this revelation hinges on the foundation of Judaism and you saw the post with the prohibition to me from Mr Hsiung and you posted to it and it is on the top of the admin board here saying a big hello from 2012. If you could post here what you mean by that, I would appreciate it.
> > But to go on, I have been talking about Noah here and the flood and the ark. An like in the days of Noah when they mocked and taunted him and ridiculed him, he went on with the building of the ark because he had revelation from God to do so. Now Jonah did not want to be sent to Ninaveh and was swallowed by a great fish and taken thewre and spit up on the beach. Noe Jesus of Nazereth I have not talked about here yet. But I have talked about Mekchizedek. The point here is that I know what there is here like you say. I know that there is persecution ahead and I have ben there before. I know how hate is promulgted toward someone. The process is ancient. First the leaders arpouse anger toward te target person. They do this by scapegoating and saying that the person will ruin the ommunity or it is hiis fault for there whatever. Then when enough anger is aroused toward that person a venue of spewing that anger out to the person is provided. That is what hate is, the anger that is fomented by the leader or leaders of the community. Then the leader could collaborate with the members and lead tham to think that they will be doig good for the commiunty if they attack the targeted person. This has been carried out historically for millimium.
> > Now Mr Hsiung calls me the Prince of Death and leaves the hatred toward me here unsanctioned.
> > BUt as Noah went on building the ark, so will I go on. And it took Noah 100 years to build the ark. I know a hard rain is gonna fall here. The skys are dark now and I perceive the winds of death permeateing the land here. I see those that are scoffing being led to hate me, but I am also building an ark, an ark that could lift them out of the darkness and into the light of life. When the rains come hard and the fountains of the deep are opened, the door may be shut to those here.
> > Lou
>
> Lou, did God send Christ and his disciples all over Palestine and beyond to protest their treatment by the orthodox and the Romans, or to preach about God's love and "the kingdom"? Would there be such a thing as Christianity today were that the case? Similarly, did God send you to dr-bob.org to protest anti-semitism, or to deliver your revelations concerning mind-altering drugs and those on them who urgently need to be free from them and the means to do this? The two are practically mutually exclusive. Like Noah, time is of the essence, and he doesn't have another eight years to get permission to finish the ark.
>
> Lou, how many people have you killed over these eight years because you witheld information that could help them over a minor beurocratic technicality. What if Noah wasted his time over such things? Maybe we wouldn't have giraffes, or elephants, or platypusses (paltypi?)? Wouldn't that have been tragic! God chose you for this mission, and he expects you to carry it out! When it comes to people, God's judgements are infallible; after all, he invented them.
>
> Who's more important to you Lou: Melvin Chizedeck or Mr. Hsuing. It's time to choose.schleprock,
There are important issues that you have brought up here that could mark the diffrence between people being alive or dead. And I have no way of knowing for sure if those here that were killed by the drugs that Mr Hsiung allows to be promoted would be alive today if the prohibitions to me here by Mr Hsiung were not made to me. I wonder though, by the nature of all the evidence coming out now that substantiates that psychotropic drugs shorten the life span of those that take them. And the number of deaths from these drugs continue to mathematically increase as the advertising increases, and internet sites that promote mind-altering drugs increase to lead people to think that they can take a drug that could kill them give them peace and joy.
Now I do not have the blood of those that have died here from the drugs upon me. I can only do what you see here and I am prevented from posting what needs to be posted here by the prohibitions to me here by Mr Hsiung. There is no doubt in my mind that if I was not prohibited from posting from a Jewish perspective here, that those that were killed by the drugs here, could at least have had the opportunity to turn from the drugs that killed them and be lead into a new life and be alive today.
Your psychiatrist/doctor can legally give you a drug that could kill you or addict you or give you a life-ruining condition. Look at the lives of the people here that promote these drugs. And when someone comes here to get help to get off the drugs, I am prohibited to post to them what I think could deliver them out of the bondage of drugs from my perspective, and they then are deprived not by me, but by the prohibitor, of learnng from me that could save their lives or prevent them from getting a life-ruining condition or death.
Time is of the essence here, for the longer the drugs are taken, the more the chances increase of the drugs killing them. Yet today, the furnace of hate is being stoked here by Mr Hsiung allowing scapegoating to be directed toward me accusing me of being responsible for their real or imagined problems here. Mr Hsiung and his deputy control the content here, so they are responsible, not me.
Lou
Posted by Dinah on October 29, 2012, at 8:08:50
In reply to Re: Academic exercise., posted by schleprock on October 28, 2012, at 16:11:40
> You scared them away Lou. What do you have to say for yourself now?
If you're referring to me, I don't think it's fair to blame Lou as the sole cause.
There's a limit to the level of unpleasantness a sole voice on an internet bulletin board can stir up without assistance from others.
Posted by SLS on October 29, 2012, at 10:34:05
In reply to Re: Academic exercise. » schleprock, posted by Dinah on October 29, 2012, at 8:08:50
Perhaps someone could redirect these subthreads to the appropriate boards?
I am not sorry that I initiated this thread. However, I didn't foresee it heading in different directions.
The point I was trying to make is that people should not be ridiculed personally for their views on psychiatric treatments. What I see happening is a split into two themes that have little to do with the Medications board. Although difficult to separate, there are matters of Administration and Faith that I think should be redirected to those boards. As it stands now, the thread is causing a distraction from psychiatric treatment issues, and consumes a great portion of the board. I don't think it makes this forum attractive to others to join or participate.
Perhaps it makes sense for participants to refrain from posting along this thread issues of site administration or religion, and begin new threads regarding these issues on the appropriate boards. If not, then I guess we might suggest that certain posts be redirected to other boards. I would prefer to see a website forum moderator do this, though.
- Scott
Posted by schleprock on October 29, 2012, at 12:34:29
In reply to Lou's reply-theblud » schleprock, posted by Lou Pilder on October 29, 2012, at 5:02:09
Lou, could you possibly post a link to Mr. Hsuing's exact prohibition towards you. I wish to see exactly what manner of tyranny we're up against.
Posted by Lou Pilder on October 29, 2012, at 13:09:15
In reply to Re: Lou's reply-theblud, posted by schleprock on October 29, 2012, at 12:34:29
> Lou, could you possibly post a link to Mr. Hsuing's exact prohibition towards you. I wish to see exactly what manner of tyranny we're up against.
schleprock,
There is another prohibition to me here that prevents mr from posting that link, even thogh it is a post here.
BUt you saw the one prohibition and is on the top of the admin board that involves the prohibition of me from posting the foundation of Judaism as revealed to me.
I would like for all to see that post to me from Mr Hsiung but he did prohibit me from posting links to poste here that have particular criteria. Granted, the post and prohibition was only to me, which brings up the issue of that there could be two standards here. And when a Jew id subjected to different terms and cionditions in a community, the EU defines that to be an antisemitic policy. So you see, there is much more to antisemitism than just allowing antisemitic statements to stand here, There is what is known as {against Judaism) or anti-Judaism.
Lou
Posted by Phillipa on October 29, 2012, at 18:28:26
In reply to Re: Lou's reply-theblud, posted by schleprock on October 29, 2012, at 12:34:29
To Clarify Lou did not hurt or kill anyone here. If someone did. It was either free will, or a mistake. I knew those people from here. Phillipa
Posted by Lou Pilder on October 29, 2012, at 19:43:43
In reply to Re: Lou's reply-theblud » schleprock, posted by Phillipa on October 29, 2012, at 18:28:26
> To Clarify Lou did not hurt or kill anyone here. If someone did. It was either free will, or a mistake. I knew those people from here. Phillipa
Phillipa,
Thank you for coming to the aid of the truth.
Lou
Posted by Phillipa on October 29, 2012, at 19:59:42
In reply to Lou's reply- » Phillipa, posted by Lou Pilder on October 29, 2012, at 19:43:43
Lou it's true. I will not see you or anyone else hurt here is I can help it. Phillipa
Posted by Moishe Pipik on October 30, 2012, at 12:14:19
In reply to Re: Lou's reply- » Lou Pilder, posted by Phillipa on October 29, 2012, at 19:59:42
Putting aside the "mental illness" debate for a moment, perhaps single-minded unrelenting zeal is more the case here. There are many "issues" where often-frightening activists ply their wares ad nauseum, sometimes even with deadly results - anti-abortionists, animal rights people, the Tea Party, the KKK, anti-Obama Republicans, etc.. I call it "Chicken Little Syndrome". Such people seem to be unable to look at a bigger picture.
Insanity? Mental illness? Or perhaps just really, really, really annoying.
And like the boy who cried wolf, often simply ignored.
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.