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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Deneb on September 14, 2011, at 6:52:36
In reply to Re: Can feel heart beating hard, normal? anxiety? » Deneb, posted by SLS on September 14, 2011, at 6:42:46
Maybe I'm just imagining things. I tend towards hypochondria.
But anyways, pdoc ordered some blood tests and an EKG and I have some time to get that today so those will let me know if something is wrong.
It's only been a couple of weeks since I started my diet. Most likely I'm just having an anxiety attack.
Posted by Deneb on September 14, 2011, at 9:29:57
In reply to Re: Can feel heart beating hard, normal? anxiety?, posted by Deneb on September 14, 2011, at 6:52:36
I just went to get my blood tests and EKG and the woman who did my EKG looked confused and concerned. Isn't the actual recording supposed to take like 10 seconds or something? That was how my previous EKG went.
Well this time the woman must have spent like 10 mins or more recording my heart. She moved an electrode thingie a few times and even changed one of those thingies. She looked very concerned! She did not look normal at all. OMG. Maybe there really is something wrong.
Seriously, I'm scared now. What do I need to do right now? Drink gatorade? What? Propranolol? Will that help? They would call my doctor if it were an emergency right?
I don't feel good. What should I do?
Posted by SLS on September 14, 2011, at 9:46:46
In reply to Re: OMG I'm really scared now, just had EKG, posted by Deneb on September 14, 2011, at 9:29:57
> I don't feel good. What should I do?
Keep dieting?
I don't think so. I have a feeling that you will continue dieting anyway. I hope I am wrong.
I'm glad that you are scared, although I am sorry that you should be experiencing so much anxiety. I think there are lessons to be learned here. We'll see.
What advice would you give a friend if they were to find themself in the same situation?
- Scott
Posted by Dinah on September 14, 2011, at 10:11:14
In reply to Re: OMG I'm really scared now, just had EKG, posted by Deneb on September 14, 2011, at 9:29:57
Well, you've had your EKG and if there's anything to be worried about your pdoc will know it and will know you aren't ready to be terminated due to the fact that you're doing so well.
So maybe now you can eat responsibly?
After all, even if she relents, you can hardly benefit from it if you're dead.
Posted by Deneb on September 14, 2011, at 10:16:22
In reply to Re: OMG I'm really scared now, just had EKG » Deneb, posted by SLS on September 14, 2011, at 9:46:46
Right now I have no appetite at all. I think I messed up my appetite. I forced myself to eat something for breakfast, but this is going to be hard.
I'm drinking lots of sports drink right now. I'm really afraid it might be an electrolyte imbalance or something.
I just called Telehealth and the nurse said they would call my doctor if something was urgent. She also said there might have been a lot of artifacts or something and nothing wrong at all with the EKG.
I should try to sleep. I've been up all night. I'm so anxious right now. I think I will take a propranolol. I've heard that helps hearts beat normal or something.
I don't want to die. I just want to be thin. How do anorexic people get so thin and remain OK? I'm still chubby. I've only been restricting my food for a couple of weeks.
Posted by Dinah on September 14, 2011, at 10:25:55
In reply to Re: OMG I'm really scared now, just had EKG, posted by Deneb on September 14, 2011, at 10:16:22
It's not too good for hair either. I remember reading that Richard Simmons (I think) did such an extreme diet that his hair fell out in clumps. Before he decided to use a more sensible approach.
Posted by Dinah on September 14, 2011, at 10:27:50
In reply to Re: OMG I'm really scared now, just had EKG, posted by Dinah on September 14, 2011, at 10:25:55
http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20079026,00.html
"My hair fell out, my skin drooped, my breath was foul and my mood matched."
Posted by Dinah on September 14, 2011, at 10:29:08
In reply to Re: OMG I'm really scared now, just had EKG, posted by Deneb on September 14, 2011, at 10:16:22
Hmmm... You've been tapering Risperdal haven't you?
Maybe you could let your pdoc know you've been doing it too quickly.
Posted by Dinah on September 14, 2011, at 10:49:46
In reply to Re: OMG I'm really scared now, just had EKG, posted by Dinah on September 14, 2011, at 10:29:08
That was just a suggestion as a possibility.
Posted by Phillipa on September 14, 2011, at 10:50:02
In reply to Re: OMG I'm really scared now, just had EKG, posted by Dinah on September 14, 2011, at 10:29:08
Artifact is usually benign caused by movements of a patient during an EKG or incorrect placements of leads. I didn't know you were tapering your resperidol don't you appear to do not as well on less? Phillipa
Posted by Deneb on September 14, 2011, at 11:11:27
In reply to Re: OMG I'm really scared now, just had EKG, posted by Phillipa on September 14, 2011, at 10:50:02
I didn't move at all during the EKG. I was completely still. She moved around the leads and even changed them a few times. That's why it took her so long. She kept changing the placement.
This is not comforting to me at all. If it was just an artifact it would have gone away with the first change or so right? I mean, she spent like 10 mins changing them around and looking concerned.
I need to google this.
Posted by SLS on September 14, 2011, at 15:34:12
In reply to Re: OMG I'm really scared now, just had EKG, posted by Deneb on September 14, 2011, at 11:11:27
> I need to google this.
On the contrary, I think you need to not Google this.
You are of above average intelligence, but below average in medical knowledge compared to your doctors.
Stop playing doctor and go see someone who is.
- Scott
Posted by Deneb on September 14, 2011, at 17:19:18
In reply to Re: OMG I'm really scared now, just had EKG, posted by SLS on September 14, 2011, at 15:34:12
I guess I'll just have to try to relax and just wait until my next appointment with pdoc. I'm hoping she would contact me before that if something were really wrong. Or maybe GP would contact me, they both can access my lab results.
I drank a lot of sports drink. I think I feel better. I'm probably not dying. The propranolol seemed to help. I'm not super aware of my heart anymore.
I got some comforting advice elsewhere. Others say that fasting or nearly fasting for 2 weeks won't harm someone who had been healthy before. It makes a lot of sense. I bet famines used to last longer and people survived.
Our bodies are probably built for famines. (Well at least mine is lol)
And someone also said that the EKG tech may have just been concentrating and I misinterpreted that as looking concerned. A lot of people look concerned when they are concentrating. I also just remembered that I forgot to shut off my cell phone so maybe that caused a lot of artifacts.
Posted by jane d on September 14, 2011, at 17:25:52
In reply to Re: OMG I'm really scared now, just had EKG, posted by Deneb on September 14, 2011, at 10:16:22
> I don't want to die. I just want to be thin. How do anorexic people get so thin and remain OK? I'm still chubby. I've only been restricting my food for a couple of weeks.
They don't remain OK. They suffer permanent damage. Or worse. That's why it's considered an illness. You know this already.
And didn't your doctor tell you to stay off caffeine?
Posted by Deneb on September 14, 2011, at 19:09:39
In reply to Re: OMG I'm really scared now, just had EKG » Deneb, posted by jane d on September 14, 2011, at 17:25:52
I got a bit of sleep, chewed some gum and got my appetite back. I feel much better now. I'm quite sure I'm not going to die.
Sorry about the freakout.
Posted by jane d on September 14, 2011, at 19:29:04
In reply to I'm sorry everyone, posted by Deneb on September 14, 2011, at 19:09:39
> I got a bit of sleep, chewed some gum and got my appetite back. I feel much better now. I'm quite sure I'm not going to die.
>
> Sorry about the freakout.
>The question I have is whether you are going to continue to do the same thing - ie restrict calories to the point that it makes you sick.
And continue to get all your information from the internet - both the stuff that makes you panic and the stuff that calms you down (pro anorexia site perhaps?) while ignoring your doctors. Did you even contact one today? I know you went in for an EKG but you got that referral a week ago - was it even for the same thing? Did you even tell that doctor you thought you were worse? If not, why not? Hm. Maybe there's some truth to the statement that people don't value anything they get for free. (Unless of course it's an unvetted source on the internet)
Posted by Deneb on September 14, 2011, at 19:57:00
In reply to Re: I'm sorry everyone » Deneb, posted by jane d on September 14, 2011, at 19:29:04
> The question I have is whether you are going to continue to do the same thing - ie restrict calories to the point that it makes you sick.
No, I'm too scared to do that now. I think I need to eat something healthy when I'm hungry instead of ignoring it.
> And continue to get all your information from the internet - both the stuff that makes you panic and the stuff that calms you down (pro anorexia site perhaps?) while ignoring your doctors. Did you even contact one today?
Oh there is no reason to. I just was having an anxiety attack.
>I know you went in for an EKG but you got that referral a week ago - was it even for the same >thing?
Well I talked to pdoc about my concerns over that new Celexa warning. That is why she ordered the EKG.
> Did you even tell that doctor you thought you were worse? If not, why not? Hm. Maybe >there's some truth to the statement that people don't value anything they get for free. (Unless >of course it's an unvetted source on the internet)I thought I was doing OK. Well I just really wanted to win this weight loss competition. I realize that's it's probably impossible now, so I'll just forget about that.
Posted by Dinah on September 14, 2011, at 20:46:11
In reply to Re: I'm sorry everyone » jane d, posted by Deneb on September 14, 2011, at 19:57:00
> I thought I was doing OK. Well I just really wanted to win this weight loss competition. I realize that's it's probably impossible now, so I'll just forget about that.
Deneb, don't you see that that's the real problem? And while you gave up on the weight loss competition, the fact is that you chose to restrict calories to an unhealthy degree in order to win a weight loss competition. People who are in good mental health and who make healthy choices don't make decisions like that. The weight loss competition and fasting itself is nowhere near as important as the fact that you made a very self destructive choice. And likely will again unless you recognize this as a problem and work to solve it. This is where therapy and some very honest self appraisal can be useful.
Maybe you did do it to try to keep your pdoc. Certainly I am the last person to judge the desire to do anything - anything at all - to keep a beloved therapist/pdoc.
Maybe the reason is what my therapist suggested (incorrectly) for me. A desire to create chaos in your life.
Maybe it's because you equate caring with caretaking. So you feel compelled to create situations where people will worry about you, and thus show their caring in a way you can understand and accept.
Maybe it's just because you reduced your risperdal dose and are acting according to obsessions and compulsions that were kept in check by the medication. Honestly, I think there was a time not that long ago when you would have made healthier choices.
Whatever the reason, concentrating on the latest incarnation of the problem is unlikely to be helpful if you don't address the underlying problem.
Why don't you bring it up with your pdoc, and say you think there are some deeper issues you have not yet addressed. (Yes, I'm not averse to helping you keep your pdoc/other mother.)
Posted by SLS on September 14, 2011, at 21:08:44
In reply to Re: I'm sorry everyone, posted by Dinah on September 14, 2011, at 20:46:11
Great post, Dinah.
Deliberate well, Deneb.
- Scott
---------------------------------------------
> > I thought I was doing OK. Well I just really wanted to win this weight loss competition. I realize that's it's probably impossible now, so I'll just forget about that.
>
> Deneb, don't you see that that's the real problem? And while you gave up on the weight loss competition, the fact is that you chose to restrict calories to an unhealthy degree in order to win a weight loss competition. People who are in good mental health and who make healthy choices don't make decisions like that. The weight loss competition and fasting itself is nowhere near as important as the fact that you made a very self destructive choice. And likely will again unless you recognize this as a problem and work to solve it. This is where therapy and some very honest self appraisal can be useful.
>
> Maybe you did do it to try to keep your pdoc. Certainly I am the last person to judge the desire to do anything - anything at all - to keep a beloved therapist/pdoc.
>
> Maybe the reason is what my therapist suggested (incorrectly) for me. A desire to create chaos in your life.
>
> Maybe it's because you equate caring with caretaking. So you feel compelled to create situations where people will worry about you, and thus show their caring in a way you can understand and accept.
>
> Maybe it's just because you reduced your risperdal dose and are acting according to obsessions and compulsions that were kept in check by the medication. Honestly, I think there was a time not that long ago when you would have made healthier choices.
>
> Whatever the reason, concentrating on the latest incarnation of the problem is unlikely to be helpful if you don't address the underlying problem.
>
> Why don't you bring it up with your pdoc, and say you think there are some deeper issues you have not yet addressed. (Yes, I'm not averse to helping you keep your pdoc/other mother.)
Posted by Deneb on September 16, 2011, at 1:32:24
In reply to Re: I'm sorry everyone, posted by Dinah on September 14, 2011, at 20:46:11
> Deneb, don't you see that that's the real problem? And while you gave up on the weight loss competition, the fact is that you chose to restrict calories to an unhealthy degree in order to win a weight loss competition. People who are in good mental health and who make healthy choices don't make decisions like that. The weight loss competition and fasting itself is nowhere near as important as the fact that you made a very self destructive choice. And likely will again unless you recognize this as a problem and work to solve it. This is where therapy and some very honest self appraisal can be useful.
I was never really fasting. I just ate very little, but yeah, I think I know what you mean. It's still not too healthy. I'm making sure I take my vitamins and supplements though.
In hindsight though, my extreme fears are unfounded. I spoke with more people at the hair forum and everyone agrees that extreme dieting for a couple of weeks is not harmful. People do month long water fasts without incident. I just really freaked out. I think it's because I skipped my meds for a couple of days. I ran out.
> Maybe you did do it to try to keep your pdoc. Certainly I am the last person to judge the desire to do anything - anything at all - to keep a beloved therapist/pdoc.Well the thought did cross my mind to drop weight quickly so that pdoc would notice, but she wants me to lose some weight.
> Maybe the reason is what my therapist suggested (incorrectly) for me. A desire to create chaos in your life.
>
> Maybe it's because you equate caring with caretaking. So you feel compelled to create situations where people will worry about you, and thus show their caring in a way you can understand and accept.I don't want my friends to worry about me. It makes me feel bad. I like it more when people praise me for doing well.
>
> Maybe it's just because you reduced your risperdal dose and are acting according to obsessions and compulsions that were kept in check by the medication. Honestly, I think there was a time not that long ago when you would have made healthier choices.
>
> Whatever the reason, concentrating on the latest incarnation of the problem is unlikely to be helpful if you don't address the underlying problem.
>
> Why don't you bring it up with your pdoc, and say you think there are some deeper issues you have not yet addressed. (Yes, I'm not averse to helping you keep your pdoc/other mother.)I will bring it up next time. It's just hard because I only see her for 30 mins each month.
I'm trying to eat more now but it's actually really hard. I just have no appetite. At this point restricting food is not voluntary anymore. I literally cannot eat much. It's not worrisome yet because I'm still fat. I hope at some point I'll be able to eat a normal amount again.
I'm really sorry if I upset you in any way Dinah. I didn't mean to. I'll try to address the underlying problems.
Posted by jane d on September 16, 2011, at 4:21:25
In reply to Re: I'm sorry everyone » Dinah, posted by Deneb on September 16, 2011, at 1:32:24
Well I don't know about Dinah but I sure feel relieved. Let's see if I got this straight.
It's all OK because you weren't fasting you were only almost fasting and that's ok because a) you were taking your vitamins (but not your meds) and b) the folks on a hair growing forum say it is okay. You haven't managed to talk to your psychiatrist about this because half an hour just isn't enough time even though you've had eating related problems in the past. But maybe you'll mention it in another month. And finally, you're going to keep right on almost fasting but that's ok because nothing bad can happen to you as long as you're still overweight. Is that about right?
Yup. I'm relieved. What about you?
Posted by Dinah on September 16, 2011, at 8:15:49
In reply to Re: I'm sorry everyone » Deneb, posted by jane d on September 16, 2011, at 4:21:25
Deneb, I think that post is the sort of thing you need to bring up with your doctor. As Jane said, it is not very reassuring to your health now, or in the future. Please do tell her what you've done and your reasoning on the topic. If she thinks your reasoning is healthy, when you describe it in just this way, please do let me know.
You've quit taking your meds? Why? That seems a sure road to crisis, as it would be for me as well. If you've quit taking your risperdal, I'd be interested to know if your thoughts change after being back on the drug for a week or so.
I don't feel that there's any way at all I can be helpful to you.
Posted by Dinah on September 16, 2011, at 8:35:37
In reply to Re: I'm sorry everyone » Dinah, posted by Deneb on September 16, 2011, at 1:32:24
> I'm really sorry if I upset you in any way Dinah. I didn't mean to. I'll try to address the underlying problems.
I think I wouldn't be a good friend if I weren't angry at someone who is hurting you. Even if that someone is you.
Posted by Deneb on September 16, 2011, at 9:51:55
In reply to Re: I'm sorry everyone, posted by Dinah on September 16, 2011, at 8:15:49
:-(
I'm sorry.
I don't know what to say to make everyone unmad at me. :(
I've started to eat more. I think I'm eating the right amount now for normal weight loss.
I don't really get why everyone gets mad when I undereat but not when I overeat. Isn't overeating just as bad?
I didn't stop taking meds for very long and it wasn't on purpose, I just ran out.
Posted by SLS on September 16, 2011, at 12:16:24
In reply to Re: I'm sorry everyone, posted by Deneb on September 16, 2011, at 9:51:55
> I don't really get why everyone gets mad when I undereat but not when I overeat. Isn't overeating just as bad?
You can probably die much more quickly by undereating rather than overeating. It's called starvation. Nobody is suggesting that you choose between being fat or being dead. There is usually a middle ground of moderation and common sense.
How do you make people unmad? Perhaps this is not to be your concern at this juncture. I think people would be much happier to see you take care of yourself responsibly rather than seeing you constantly screaming alarms of hurt and doom by destroying yourself with your own hands. I think your decision making process sucks. This is, in large part, the result of the dysfunctional influences exerted by the biological counterparts of your mental illness. You need to be treated both pharmacologically and psychotherapeutically.
For me, it is indeed maddening to see you forgo medical expertise and common sense in favor of the self-mutilation of your mind and body. Yes, it does get old. Sorry.
You need help. There are professionals who have been educated and trained to help you. Have you concluded that you are more adept at treating yourself than they are? Is procrastination a problem? Low energy? How do you account for not going to doctors and playing with your medications?
- Scott
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