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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 83. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Maxime on September 19, 2010, at 23:06:07
Sometimes I post on Crazy Meds, not often though. I posted a question about how the dexedring was making me tired and this I got this nasty post from a moderator.
They think I am a drug junky or something like that!
And I know you are going to think that I am stupid, but the post below actually made me cry. I think because it made me so angry.
____________________________________________Overwhelming tiredness is completely normal for someone who is not ADD and should not be being prescribed stimulants in the first place.
In your other thread, you said you were being prescribed stimulants "for depression". Let's take a look at your meds:
Dx'd with Bipolar depression & Anorexia (restricting subtype)
Current meds:
Parnate 100 mg
Nortriptyline 75 mg
Adderall XR 30 mg
Trileptal 600 mg
Klonopin .5 mgI'll go through them one by one.
Parnate: an anti-depressant with a usual dose of 30 mg per day, but a max daily dosage of 60 mg (you're on 100 mg), that is absolutely contraindicated for use with -
--- Nortriptyline (or any dibenzazepine-related entities or tricyclic antidepressants)
--- Carbamazepine (that would be that Trileptal you're taking)
--- Sympathomimetics (that would be ANY of the amphetamines you have been taking)
--- A whole bunch of different foods that your doctor should have told you aboutNortriptyline: a tricyclic anti-depressant which falls into the dibenzazepine class and the sympathomimetics class.
Adderall XR: an amphetamine of the sympathomimetics class with a recommended dose of 25 mg per day of which you are taking 30 mg day.
Trileptal: an anti-convulsant used as a mood-stabilizer, but contraindicated in use with Parnate.
Klonopin: a benzodiazepine approved/utilized for seizure disorders, anxiety disorders, and the manic side of bipolar. It is not Rx'd for people sitting in the depressive end of bipolar as it simply makes them more depressed.
Ok, now that we have the fact that every single med you are on, save the Klonopin, is in complete contradiction with one another, we need to look at two things: who is trying to kill you, and why.
If you have one doctor who is prescribing these medications, they are simply incompetent, and should be reported to the authorities for gross negligence. If you have multiple doctors, they should all be reported for not looking at your meds list. You are showing them your meds list, right?If it is you that is responsible for making sure you obtain these medications, in whatever way possible, you are in need of therapy far more than you are in need of a place like CrazyMeds. Please do not ask any more questions along this vein. Your data does not add up, and we have an extremely low tolerance for such things.
Dymphna
Moderator
Posted by Maxime on September 19, 2010, at 23:18:41
In reply to Crazy meds IS crazy, posted by Maxime on September 19, 2010, at 23:06:07
I did however post all the abstract of articles I have about taking MAOISs, stims and TCA for treatment resistant depression.
Psycho Babble is kinder place. I think I will stay here from now on.
Posted by Phillipa on September 20, 2010, at 0:08:26
In reply to Re: Crazy meds IS crazy, posted by Maxime on September 19, 2010, at 23:18:41
Personally I feel whoever Crazy Med is Is a bit crazy himself. I wouldn't post there. I'm comfortable here. Good and bad. I'm sorry he made you cry. Love Phillipa
Posted by Christ_empowered on September 20, 2010, at 0:19:00
In reply to Re: Crazy meds IS crazy » Maxime, posted by Phillipa on September 20, 2010, at 0:08:26
Your med combo is a bit unconventional, but...it happens. People sometimes end up on combos that aren't exactly standard; as long as there's informed consent and the doc(s) watch over the patient's safety, no big deal.
I can't believe they were so rude to you there; just post here, where we're (usually) much nicer.
Posted by huxley on September 20, 2010, at 1:05:21
In reply to Crazy meds IS crazy, posted by Maxime on September 19, 2010, at 23:06:07
lol maxime I have had a few run ins with her.
Don't give her the time of day. She is a nasty piece of work and doesnt really deserve to be giving anyone advice. Really one of the most pointless nasty people you will find out there.
Have a look at some of her other posts, they are nearly all like that. She enjoys putting people down.
Someone gave her a little power and it went straight to her head.
Add to that she gives out alot of misinformation.
Some people just shouldnt be allowed on the internet.
Posted by ed_uk2010 on September 20, 2010, at 4:07:34
In reply to Crazy meds IS crazy, posted by Maxime on September 19, 2010, at 23:06:07
I think I would have cried if someone posted that to me, how horrible. Also, she is clearly not as knowledgable as she believes.
About your original question, does Dexedrine make you tired when it's working or when it's wearing off? Tiredness is very common several hours after taking Dexedrine - once your blood level starts to go down. Tiredness can also occur if the stimulant disturbs your sleep, exhausting your body. Another possibility is that stimulants can cause drowsiness if they change your thought patterns, a bit like they do in ADD. Not sure if that makes sense.
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 20, 2010, at 5:42:07
In reply to Crazy meds IS crazy, posted by Maxime on September 19, 2010, at 23:06:07
Friends,
There has been a continual body of reports concerning the combining of psychotropic drugs. The moderator, Dymphna, has listed the class of chemical structure to the different chemicals and I think that indicates a depth of knowlege that could give credibility to his/her statements about the combining of the drugs in question. I also have a strong background in the chemical structure of these mind-altering drugs and have a respect for that moderator's understanding of the combining effects of those chemicals.
When particular chemicals are combined, they can depress the central nervous system to the point that the person could die. Many celebs are in the news that have died and there were the combinations of drugs that could have caused their deaths.
Now I think that the moderator of any mental-health forum has not only the duty to point out potentially lethal combinations of drugs, but also if they do not do so that they could be held liable for negligence if they do not point that out if a member dies from a combination of drugs that have been shown to be contraindicated.
Now the moderator there is IMHO very concientious to point out that one could question the prescribing of the drugs due to the potential to cause death. By doing so, other members could be warned that taking those combinations are listed in the liturature as the moderator posted. The moderator could then be saving lives to post the warning and IMO is in the public's interest.
Lou
Posted by ed_uk2010 on September 20, 2010, at 6:04:28
In reply to Lou's defense of Crazy meds- Dymphna, posted by Lou Pilder on September 20, 2010, at 5:42:07
I under what you're saying but the tone of the post was unpleasant.
>There has been a continual body of reports concerning the combining of psychotropic drugs. The moderator, Dymphna, has listed the class of chemical structure to the different chemicals and I think that indicates a depth of knowlege that could give credibility to his/her statements about the combining of the drugs in question. I also have a strong background in the chemical structure of these mind-altering drugs and have a respect for that moderator's understanding of the combining effects of those chemicals.
> When particular chemicals are combined, they can depress the central nervous system to the point that the person could die. Many celebs are in the news that have died and there were the combinations of drugs that could have caused their deaths.
> Now I think that the moderator of any mental-health forum has not only the duty to point out potentially lethal combinations of drugs, but also if they do not do so that they could be held liable for negligence if they do not point that out if a member dies from a combination of drugs that have been shown to be contraindicated.
> Now the moderator there is IMHO very concientious to point out that one could question the prescribing of the drugs due to the potential to cause death. By doing so, other members could be warned that taking those combinations are listed in the liturature as the moderator posted. The moderator could then be saving lives to post the warning and IMO is in the public's interest.
> Lou
>
>
Posted by SLS on September 20, 2010, at 6:47:35
In reply to Crazy meds IS crazy, posted by Maxime on September 19, 2010, at 23:06:07
The strength of the moderator you interacted with might be an ability to read text books and the PDR.
You know better than this, Maxime.
Was the posture and tone taken by the moderator helpful or hurtful to you? If I were to receive such a message, I would feel belittled, attacked, and shunned.
- Scott
Posted by ed_uk2010 on September 20, 2010, at 7:39:39
In reply to Re: Crazy meds IS crazy » Maxime, posted by SLS on September 20, 2010, at 6:47:35
>I would feel belittled, attacked and shunned.
Exactly. The tone was very hurtful. Definitely not civil!
There was talk of the chemical structure of the drugs but not their pharmacological activity - which is more relevent. For example, desipramine is structurally very similar to clomipramine but its properties are not the same. There was an attempt to appear scientific (dibenzazepines etc) but it gave the impression of being cut and pasted from the PDR. Some of the PDR is out of date, self-serving (for the manufacturers - think litigation) and not consistent with current expert opinion.
I am not sure of the motive behind the post, but I do not think it was to help Maxime.
Posted by Maxime on September 20, 2010, at 8:14:35
In reply to Re: Crazy meds IS crazy » Maxime, posted by SLS on September 20, 2010, at 6:47:35
Hi Scott, her post made me feel ashamed. I then posted to her all the abstracts of articles that indicate that MAOIs and stims and TCAs are often used to together. She then accused me of posting anecdotal evidence.
I don't know why I let it bug me so much. I did indeed feel belittled. I won't be going back there. Someone even posted that they were surprised that I was still alive!
Silly people.
Posted by Maxime on September 20, 2010, at 8:18:39
In reply to Lou's defense of Crazy meds- Dymphna, posted by Lou Pilder on September 20, 2010, at 5:42:07
Lou, there is a way to post and way not to post. Putting someone down because of the meds they take is the wrong way. It does not show that they care it just shows that they know fancy terms. She also accused me of ordering meds which I don't do. If she really cared, she would have been kinder. I guess that is we have the "please be civil" rule here on PB.
Posted by violette on September 20, 2010, at 12:31:17
In reply to Crazy meds IS crazy, posted by Maxime on September 19, 2010, at 23:06:07
Yeah i'd also be a bit sensitive to a response like that...
A patient doesn't necessarily need a dx of ADD to be prescribed a stimulant anyway. My doctor rx's stimulants for depression or to countereact side effects of depression. Is this woman a doctor?
Maybe if you just told her to f*ck off you'd feel better.
Posted by violette on September 20, 2010, at 12:33:16
In reply to Crazy meds IS crazy, posted by Maxime on September 19, 2010, at 23:06:07
oops meant to say rx'd to counteract side effects of ADs...
Posted by violette on September 20, 2010, at 12:35:30
In reply to Crazy meds IS crazy, posted by Maxime on September 19, 2010, at 23:06:07
Oh-the tiredness: if you just started the dexedrine, try taking just 5 mg for a few days..and see how that goes. You can get tired from taking too much.
Posted by maxime on September 20, 2010, at 14:28:50
In reply to Re: Crazy meds IS crazy, posted by violette on September 20, 2010, at 12:35:30
> Oh-the tiredness: if you just started the dexedrine, try taking just 5 mg for a few days..and see how that goes. You can get tired from taking too much.
Actually the tiredness is gone now. I increased my morning dose to 30 mg. Often I don't take an afternoon dose. I don't take unless I really need to do so. The reason my pdoc prescribed it was to get me going so that I didn't spend all in bed. Now that I am working, it's not a problem.
Posted by Roslynn on September 20, 2010, at 16:38:50
In reply to Crazy meds IS crazy, posted by Maxime on September 19, 2010, at 23:06:07
Forget her, Maxime, just hang out here with us!
Posted by weatherfreak on September 20, 2010, at 22:33:14
In reply to Re: Crazy meds IS crazy » SLS, posted by Maxime on September 20, 2010, at 8:14:35
Hey Maxime, those forums are very erratic and always have been. Just stay away from them. People like that have no idea how distressing it is speaking to someone in that tone that is ill. I only use Crazy meds for info on freaky side effects and PI sheets. Those forums are toxic. Don't let it get to you. You're better than an ill informed moderator like that.
Posted by europerep on September 21, 2010, at 5:22:18
In reply to Lou's defense of Crazy meds- Dymphna, posted by Lou Pilder on September 20, 2010, at 5:42:07
> The moderator, Dymphna, has listed the class of chemical structure to the different chemicals and I think that indicates a depth of knowlege that could give credibility to his/her statements about the combining of the drugs in question.
>
in my eyes, this is a rather questionable definition of knowledge or credibility.besides, Maxime has pointed out multiple times how ill she is, and that there is a possible risk of her doing harm to herself if she continues to feel as bad, or even worse, i.e. if she did not take these drugs.
Posted by SLS on September 21, 2010, at 5:45:30
In reply to Re: Lou's defense of Crazy meds- Dymphna, posted by europerep on September 21, 2010, at 5:22:18
> > The moderator, Dymphna, has listed the class of chemical structure to the different chemicals and I think that indicates a depth of knowlege that could give credibility to his/her statements about the combining of the drugs in question.
Alternatively...
This moderator has only demonstrated, at best, a rote memory of old textbook and PDR entries. Of course, if it were important enough to this person, it wouldn't take long to look up a few facts to appear knowledgeable about an issue. There is no creative synthesis of ideas displayed. The moderator might be absolutely brilliant and well-informed, but I don't think this can be deduced from a listing of molecular structures. In my opinion, the other presumptions portrayed by the moderator are archaic and do not reflect the state of the art. They are especially impotent when treatment resistance is evident.
- Scott
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 21, 2010, at 6:09:26
In reply to Re: Lou's defense of Crazy meds- Dymphna, posted by SLS on September 21, 2010, at 5:45:30
Friends,
If anyone tells you that you could take a combination of drugs that are listed as contraindicated in the liturature, I am requesting that you read the following article.
Lou
You can see this article by:
A. pull up google
B. Type in:
[Heath Ledger's cause of death made official]
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 21, 2010, at 6:19:42
In reply to Lou's request-heath, posted by Lou Pilder on September 21, 2010, at 6:09:26
Friends,
If anyone ells you anything that could lead to to think of taking a combination of drugs that the liturasture states has the potential to be lethal, I am requesting that you read the following article.
Lou
You can see this article by:
A. bring up google
B/ Type in:
[Officials:Smith's death caused by overdose]
Posted by 49er on September 21, 2010, at 6:33:49
In reply to Re: Lou's defense of Crazy meds- Dymphna » Lou Pilder, posted by Maxime on September 20, 2010, at 8:18:39
> Lou, there is a way to post and way not to post. Putting someone down because of the meds they take is the wrong way. It does not show that they care it just shows that they know fancy terms. She also accused me of ordering meds which I don't do. If she really cared, she would have been kinder. I guess that is we have the "please be civil" rule here on PB.
Maxime, I totally agree.
If she had expressed concern about the meds you were taking in a nice way, that is one thing. But to imply that you are the one who is at fault and a drug addict is simply mean and cruel.
I am sorry you had to deal with that.
49er
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 21, 2010, at 8:00:10
In reply to Lou's request-Anna, posted by Lou Pilder on September 21, 2010, at 6:19:42
Friends,
If you are considering being a discussant in this thread or parallel threads, I am requesting that you read the following.
Lou
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2537982/
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 21, 2010, at 9:06:52
In reply to Lou's request-compharm, posted by Lou Pilder on September 21, 2010, at 8:00:10
Friends,
If you are conidering posting in this thread, I am requesting that you read the following.
Lou
http://www.cchrint.org/pdfs/Criminal_Negligence_White_Paper.pdf
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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