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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by jedi on May 11, 2010, at 0:39:16
In reply to Re: NARDIL (Phenelzine) 4 weeks in, posted by Hunk20 on May 9, 2010, at 20:26:34
Hey Hunk20,
I've been on Nardil for most of the past 12 years so I'm going to throw a few things out. First, be very careful with the nifedipine. A lot of doctors will not prescribe it now because it can lower the blood pressure too quickly and for too long a time. Sometimes a minor tyramine reaction can turn into a major problem if the bite and swallow nifedipine lowers the blood pressure too much. I once spent a night in the hospital because the tyramine reaction was over and the nifedipine kept lowering my BP. My headache was bad, I almost bit another nifedipine capsule, I could have died. More people die from low BP than high BP.
Reference: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8861992
OK - Enough on BPI am assuming your depression is atypical and you have a very good doctor. Most will make you wade through multiple trials of SSRIs, a TCA and at least one newer medication before giving you the Nardil. Sounds like you may have picked a good one.
One more thing to look out for, and you are probably in the middle of it right now. When I first took Nardil and it kicked in 12 years ago, it was like throwing a switch. The depression just went away. However, it was replaced with a euphoric hypomania that lasted for weeks. My God, what a good feeling. When you are really depressed for a long time that euphoria just feels so good. It is a very common response, but do not mistake it for the true Nardil antidepressant effect. The people that do, sometimes end up chasing that euphoria, or think the medication has pooped out when it stops. Enjoy it, but do not make any major life changes while in this condition. It can make things appear just too rosy. Bad financial and social decisions can be made, similar to true mania in bipolars. Just recognize it for what it is, and it is a temporary condition.
I am a true Nardil believer. 45+ different combinations of antidepressants and augmenters. Nardil + clonazepam is the only combination that has ever worked for my atypical depression and social anxiety.
Be Well my friend,
Jedi
Posted by Hunk20 on May 11, 2010, at 18:08:52
In reply to Re: NARDIL (Phenelzine) 4 weeks in » Hunk20, posted by jedi on May 11, 2010, at 0:39:16
Jedi, good to hear you are doing well with nardil. What can i say i am a believer, too. I am on 2 pills now and am doing fine, mentally more fine than ever. Just the insomnia and slight hypotension. I try to handle it with a little salt.
I am using this time to do a lot of therapy, since my nardil "epiphany" showed me that there is need. And to make friends.
I kinda know what you are talking about with the euphoria. Hmm bad life decisions.. i never was a good decision maker so it can only get better, but ill try to control myself.I am new to the usa and might be staying for studies or job school. (whatever that might be. gotta do therapy first i hope then ill be able to choose better)
All i know is that i need a lot of therapy and find good friends.What about insomnia? how do you handle it, did it pass?
i heard often that most side effects pass with a couple of month?
Thanks and take care
The nifedipine.. thanks for that my doctor told me but in the case of a reaction i might have been not careful enough with it if you didnt warn me.
Posted by jedi on May 11, 2010, at 18:53:44
In reply to Re: NARDIL (Phenelzine) 4 weeks in, posted by Hunk20 on May 11, 2010, at 18:08:52
HUNK20,
At low dose I have little or no insomnia. Almost no side effects, but I've been on the medication for most of 12 years. At higher doses, I'm talking 90mg, the insomnia always has to be treated. Lucky for me, I am really sensitive to the histamine medications. Diphenhydramine Hydrochloride at 50mg knocks me right out. Weight gain is an issue at higher dosages because of carbohydrate cravings. I also think Nardil does something to your system where you can just keep eating way past the point of being full. Never had a problem with orthostatic hypotension, in fact Nardil actually treats my borderline hypertension and keeps me off the beta blockers. Ejaculation delay is the other biggie at higher dosages. Sometimes no ejaculation at all at 90mg. Oh well! There are worse things. Like lying in a fetal position on the floor, wondering how you are going to survive the next ten minutes of life. Depression Sucks! Side effects can be dealt with!
Be Well,
Jedi
Posted by Hunk20 on May 12, 2010, at 0:50:45
In reply to Re: NARDIL (Phenelzine) 4 weeks in » Hunk20, posted by jedi on May 11, 2010, at 18:53:44
Help people i havent been sleeping last night already.
sh.. the sleep is really getting a problem. So just an antihistamine knocks you out? Im taking zyprexa 2.5 mg and 5mg and im still here not a sleep.
I have benadryl here. Can i combine the two? zyprexa plus benadryl?
I dont want to have to give up on nardil.. no way not after i felt the efficiancy of this drug and this "epiphany". I know what i need to do. I know nardil helps me to be myself and can support me big time.
Posted by jedi on May 12, 2010, at 10:55:42
In reply to Re: NARDIL (Phenelzine) 4 weeks in, posted by Hunk20 on May 12, 2010, at 0:50:45
> Help people i havent been sleeping last night already.
>
> sh.. the sleep is really getting a problem. So just an antihistamine knocks you out? Im taking zyprexa 2.5 mg and 5mg and im still here not a sleep.
>
> I have benadryl here. Can i combine the two? zyprexa plus benadryl?
>
> I dont want to have to give up on nardil.. no way not after i felt the efficiancy of this drug and this "epiphany". I know what i need to do. I know nardil helps me to be myself and can support me big time.Hunk20,
Benadryl works for me most of the time, as long as I have not built up tolerance. I would not think Benadryl would be a problem with Zyprexa. Some will say it is a problem with a MAOI. Just straight Benadryl is not. On MAOIs you have to read labels. They mix different medications together and almost all over the counter cold aids are no-nos. Don't give up on a medication that is working because of insomnia. That can be treated. I also use micro doses of quetiapine fumarate(Seroquel) from 12.5 to 25mg This just puts me down. In the past I have used trazodone at 100mg. This is a very common sleep aid for Nardil. Then there are the whole range of medications that are actually for sleep. Benzos work short time, but tolerance is built quickly to the sleepiness effect. Don't quit the Nardil. Almost everybody that uses a MAOI has to use a sleep aid. Just the way it is.
Good Luck,
Jedi
Posted by Hunk20 on May 12, 2010, at 21:01:53
In reply to Re: NARDIL (Phenelzine) 4 weeks in » Hunk20, posted by jedi on May 12, 2010, at 10:55:42
Thanks again, Jedi.
Ill try a 2.5 zyprexa and 50mg diphenhydramine tonight.
I gotta say i dont like zyprexa.. I dont like the feeling the next morning and day.
Feels like it takes an edge of the antidepressant effect of nardil the whole next day.
Is there anything that blocks dopamine action just for a couple of hours?
Posted by jedi on May 12, 2010, at 21:47:24
In reply to Re: NARDIL (Phenelzine) 4 weeks in, posted by Hunk20 on May 12, 2010, at 21:01:53
> Thanks again, Jedi.
>
> Ill try a 2.5 zyprexa and 50mg diphenhydramine tonight.
>
> I gotta say i dont like zyprexa.. I dont like the feeling the next morning and day.
>
> Feels like it takes an edge of the antidepressant effect of nardil the whole next day.
> Is there anything that blocks dopamine action just for a couple of hours?
>
Hi again,
This article refers to the antipsychotics and has information on half life:
http://www.psych.uic.edu/pmdc/pharmbook.pdf
Jedi
Posted by Hunk20 on May 12, 2010, at 22:47:49
In reply to Re: NARDIL (Phenelzine) 4 weeks in » Hunk20, posted by jedi on May 12, 2010, at 21:47:24
This is why i dont feel good today. Damn zyprexa.
30 hours half life vs 7 seroquel hours with seroquel.
I will tell my doc to give me seroquel.
Whats the sense in taking an antidepressant and a depressant that affects me during the day !! :(
could be taking nothing instead
Posted by Dan_MI on May 14, 2010, at 15:32:40
In reply to Re: NARDIL (Phenelzine) 4 weeks in, posted by Hunk20 on May 12, 2010, at 22:47:49
Hunk,
Just remember your brain is not a machine, and these drugs do not work instantly. And follow Jedi's advice: Don't get started chasing the euphoric dragon. Once you have a hypomanic episode your brain learns how to do it again...and then the real problems start.
Posted by Hunk20 on May 14, 2010, at 22:21:00
In reply to Re: NARDIL (Phenelzine) 4 weeks in, posted by Dan_MI on May 14, 2010, at 15:32:40
What do you mean by chasing the euphoric dragon?
Posted by Hunk20 on May 14, 2010, at 22:43:17
In reply to Re: NARDIL (Phenelzine) 4 weeks in » Hunk20, posted by jedi on May 11, 2010, at 0:39:16
I CAN enjoy it while it lasts?
or its dangerous and should be treated?It feels a bit strange to me because im supersocial in that state. I was not a very social guy before.
I take only 30mg.
Thanks
Posted by Hunk20 on May 15, 2010, at 1:20:58
In reply to Re: NARDIL (Phenelzine) 4 weeks in, posted by Hunk20 on May 14, 2010, at 22:43:17
And what do i have to watch out for, what does true mania feel like? You scared me a bit.
Posted by Dan_MI on May 15, 2010, at 11:48:22
In reply to Re: NARDIL (Phenelzine) 4 weeks in, posted by Hunk20 on May 15, 2010, at 1:20:58
"Chasing the dragon" is a phrase that means to chase a high you once experienced but now is unattainable.
For me, real mania is increased social/sexual activity, talking very fast, my facial muscles tense up, I roll my tongue and grind my teeth, and I go days without sleep. Each manic episode picks up where the other one left off, and the insomnia becomes more severe each time. I've walked out on 3 jobs when I've been manic. I spent $700 in Wal-mart once. I bought volumes of legal books in Barnes & Noble.
So I'd be real careful not to train your brain to have a tendency towards mania. It has been much more destructive to my life than depression.
> And what do i have to watch out for, what does true mania feel like? You scared me a bit.
Posted by Hunk20 on May 15, 2010, at 13:52:01
In reply to Re: NARDIL (Phenelzine) 4 weeks in, posted by Dan_MI on May 15, 2010, at 11:48:22
Thanks, Dan.
Bipolar or not thats the big question.
Maybe its just that im uncomfortable with being happy because its a very unfamiliar feeling.
I think so far i didnt have full mania since i still was in control, people reacted to me in a good way, they werent pissed of to talk to me or scared. They just think im a fun guy to be around wich indeed i can be. Some give me their number to hang.. or to do other stuff :P It just feels like im a sociable, confident guy with good mood that many people like. And thats kinda unreal to me and even a bit scary. Im quite good looking.. thats what people tell me.
On the other hand i had insomnia, that needs to be treated and i do sometimes feel bad even though not depressed. It feels kinda like i got kicked outta depression and out of denial faster than i can take. Just too much in too little time.
And after i take zyprexa my moods defenitly often f*ck*d. Wont ever take it again.. Abilify is up next on the list.Sometimes i get f*ck*d with or without zyprexa because i get so stuck in my head thinking about all those realizations about my life and my situation. Its alot at once, a huge experience with nardil.
Its real hard to tell. For the last 12 years i had low self esteem and felt uncomfortable/anxious around people and very often "down". Maybe even more than 12.. I just came out of denial more and more over the years. know what i mean? Mood fluctuations: absolutely.. but supernatural good mood combined with more than one mania symptom.. defenitly not prior to nardil.
I dont know how normal mood feels. Its subjective.
Im just really scared. Scared that i might be or turn bipolar, scared to fall back where i was and scared of whats coming because i made all these realizations about my life. Im kinda scared of happiness. But i know i want it and i wont give up.
Its tough to take you know. Even the good things are tough to take. There have often been good looking girls that showed initial interest in me. But i always managed to blow myself out or to get into a situation were i pay badly for using my wiener. Now i actually have a real shot and got pretty far with a gorgeos stripper. She asked for my number in the club. Just blew myself out after ive taken zyprexa yesterday and felt not so good again. Maybe it can be fixed, i told her whats up with me before that. Today told her im sorry and id give her a spontanous booty call when im in the mood and that ive been f*ck*d up yesterday. We are both looking for fun and no shes not in for the money i checked her out.
Anyways would it be advisable to add low dose lithium or some lithium orotate for safety reasons? Omega 3 is good for bipolars i heard. Anything else that can be done for safety?
Please help im really going through a rough time bipolar or not.Id really feel better if i have a security for that matter.. right now there is defenitly a tendency. Underlying Bipolar or the tough circumstances/initial nardil hypomania.. Even my pdoc cant answer it.
Thanks in Advance
Posted by europerep on May 16, 2010, at 7:21:00
In reply to HELP: Underlying Bipolar? im scared!, posted by Hunk20 on May 15, 2010, at 13:52:01
hmm, I am really not an authoritative source on these questions, was I was just gonna add my thoughts.
If the supernatural mood and mania symptoms definitely did not appear prior to phenelzine(nardil), and the last twelve years were nothing but a dark hole, I'd think it's unlikely you actually suffer from bipolar disorder.. but phenelzine might cause mania in you, which surely isn't good, and I thought that when ADs produce mania this is quite a big problem for the ongoing treatment with that drug..
but I see your situation where you are not sure whether you're feeling "just good" or "just too good", so whether its manic symptoms or not.. what I'd suggest first of all is to not add any other drugs if you stay on phenelzine, and wait until this initial phase that jedi described should be over.. then try to evaluate the situation.. I would definitely suggest that you get in contact with some sort of psychologist, psychotherapist, etc., who can help sort out these diagnosis questions..
but as I said, I know little about phenelzine and bipolar, so you might want to ask "experts", possibly via a new thread..
Posted by Hunk20 on May 16, 2010, at 14:35:32
In reply to Re: HELP: Underlying Bipolar? im scared!, posted by europerep on May 16, 2010, at 7:21:00
i would describe my mood prior nardil like this.. 85 % of the time depressed, 15% normal/ok/good
So kind of a depressed bipolar or what..
Posted by Hunk20 on May 19, 2010, at 19:06:03
In reply to Re: HELP: Underlying Bipolar? im scared!, posted by Hunk20 on May 16, 2010, at 14:35:32
Update: so far good experience with nardil.
It kinda kicked me out of my sad depression world. Gotta pinch myself alot.
I guess i just freaked myself out way too much about bipolar. Old bad habits.
Posted by chujoe on May 19, 2010, at 20:52:26
In reply to Re: HELP: Underlying Bipolar? im scared!, posted by Hunk20 on May 19, 2010, at 19:06:03
Great news! Glad you're feeling better. That's a wonderful moment when you look around and notice that you feel good.
Posted by Hunk20 on May 21, 2010, at 12:40:21
In reply to Re: HELP: Underlying Bipolar? im scared! » Hunk20, posted by chujoe on May 19, 2010, at 20:52:26
Ok people good news..
im kinda doing as horrible as ever and as good as ever. I feel my heart again. I see the whole world in different eyes. I got to say this is the first time i gave any antidepressant a try and i went for the hardest but there is no more important thing than my soul to me.
Im feeling it, i feel all the pain, and i feel love from people who can give it and i love FEELING. I can even give a little back. To me depression is a disease of the heart. I just looked away because it was too tough to take. And i almost went down feeling it, but i will hold onto it.
Doing lots of therapy, letting it all out, showing people who i really am and its GOOD.
I had an "emotion attack" shivering all over my body and singing this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kc3Za3jfvJg . It was AWESOME.No i aint hypomanic, im free.
You hang in there guys there is hope i feel for you. You CAN get there!
Will check back in and tell you more if you want to.. im alone in a foreign country (usa) and im finding to myself here
Posted by Hunk20 on May 21, 2010, at 18:56:02
In reply to NARDIL EPIPHANY GODSENT, posted by Hunk20 on May 21, 2010, at 12:40:21
Problem is.. it is very hard to take. My whole family is totally f*ck*d up except my mom. And so was i.
They just dont unterstand it wich makes me angry and sad FOR THEM at the same time. I cant have contact with them :(
Posted by Phillipa on May 21, 2010, at 19:58:22
In reply to f*ck*d family, posted by Hunk20 on May 21, 2010, at 18:56:02
Hunk why? Your mood just completly seemed to change? Phillipa
Posted by Hunk20 on May 21, 2010, at 21:19:07
In reply to Re: f*ck*d family » Hunk20, posted by Phillipa on May 21, 2010, at 19:58:22
The worst but still the best time of my life.
Nardil makes me see, understand you know.
Had a conversation with my dad and my brother.. they kinda live in a different world. They are far away from me.
I tell my brother that i almost died from this epiphany and i am fighting for my life and he answered "but you have to make some decisions soon" meaning getting into a job and have a lucrative career.F*ck that f*ck the money and f*ck these half dead two people who have no heart you know. They just stumble sh*t and dont even know how sick they are and how sick they made me.
Its real heavy for me to not be depressed, because i see everything now. Nardil blew denial completly away. Got enough to do to heal myself and they seem hopeless to me.
I need all my strength for this now.
Kinda gotta give them up.
On the other hand i have stripper girl and i been completly open and honest with her.. and shes propably coming over soon:)
Hope to feel another bit of real love again soon(not the tainted, fake kind.. i didnt know anything else prior to this epiphany).she must have a real good heart because otherwise she wouldnt have dealt with this. Im hoping the best. You know you open yourself completly and the people that are bad for you go away by themselves..
Posted by Phillipa on May 21, 2010, at 22:06:50
In reply to Re: f*ck*d family, posted by Hunk20 on May 21, 2010, at 21:19:07
Hi Hunk I must say I'm a bit concerned about you. Are you on the correct pdoc doseage of nardil? Not using anything you shouldn't or eating. I'm trusting you to reply. Phillipa
Posted by jedi on May 21, 2010, at 23:51:14
In reply to Re: f*ck*d family, posted by Hunk20 on May 21, 2010, at 21:19:07
Hi HUNK20,
This is Jedi again. Following your posts, you do seem to be experiencing the hypomania that I experienced when Nardil first kicked in for me. You do not have to be Bipolar to have this reaction to Nardil. After reading posts here for many,many years it seems to be quite common. Like Scott said you can get 3 hours sleep and feel like that is just plenty. It was a long time ago, but there were nights when I got working on a project and I did not sleep at all. You really need to talk to your PDOC about these feelings. You probably have already. For a person who is not bipolar, I believe the initial hypomania will soon pass. It can be kind of a downer, but the medication can still work. As I mentioned before, try not to make big life changes while in this state. Your perceptions can be somewhat skewed, and you can make decisions that you will regret later. Anyway, my friend, you are just sounding a little wired. Talk to your doc and get through these initial stages.
Take care and be well,
Jedi
> The worst but still the best time of my life.
>
> Nardil makes me see, understand you know.
>
> Had a conversation with my dad and my brother.. they kinda live in a different world. They are far away from me.
> I tell my brother that i almost died from this epiphany and i am fighting for my life and he answered "but you have to make some decisions soon" meaning getting into a job and have a lucrative career.
>
> F*ck that f*ck the money and f*ck these half dead two people who have no heart you know. They just stumble sh*t and dont even know how sick they are and how sick they made me.
>
> Its real heavy for me to not be depressed, because i see everything now. Nardil blew denial completly away. Got enough to do to heal myself and they seem hopeless to me.
>
> I need all my strength for this now.
>
> Kinda gotta give them up.
>
> On the other hand i have stripper girl and i been completly open and honest with her.. and shes propably coming over soon:)
> Hope to feel another bit of real love again soon(not the tainted, fake kind.. i didnt know anything else prior to this epiphany).
>
> she must have a real good heart because otherwise she wouldnt have dealt with this. Im hoping the best. You know you open yourself completly and the people that are bad for you go away by themselves..
>
Posted by violette on May 22, 2010, at 0:20:55
In reply to Re: f*ck*d family, posted by Hunk20 on May 21, 2010, at 21:19:07
Hopefully you are just adjusting to your new med, but to be frank, your reaction sounds like the type of mania that can progress into a delusional, psychotic breakthough. Not trying to scare you, but hoping you ask your gf to keep an eye on you for now and that you keep in regular contact with your pdoc.Its great your are feeling better and I hope it works out for the best. Just be cautious is all I am saying.
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