![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 27. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by floatingbridge on January 18, 2010, at 16:04:48
Header: if you dislike whining, please don't read.
God knows why. For 3-4 days, I woke up and felt o.k. Like, really, who was that depressed, f'd-up, neurotic person? It was really weird. Carpe Diem, I thought. I'll take it.
This morning upon awakening, the flooding back of futility, the fatigue, the aches, the inability to counter any negative thought, the haunted house. What's the f'n point?
I know so many of you soldier on, year after year. I hesitate to whine. In my own quiet way, I march along, too. After feeling unexpectedly good, this feels cruel. What can I expect? How can I plan a life never knowing how I'll feel? And now the fr*gg'n exhaustion. At my age, what are the chances of healing? Bulldog mentioned in another thread, (paraphrased) when does one just have to come to acceptance?
Anyone who has read this, please don't judge me too harshly for whining. And for the heavy use of rhetorical questions. I need a hand to hold. Any one free today?
Posted by inanimate peanut on January 18, 2010, at 16:45:44
In reply to pity party at my house: three day remission over, posted by floatingbridge on January 18, 2010, at 16:04:48
(((floatingbridge))) you're not whining- you're pointing out a sudden shift in your mood. I, for one, wish you didn't have to go through it. Remember I'm here to listen.
Posted by polarbear206 on January 18, 2010, at 17:15:27
In reply to pity party at my house: three day remission over, posted by floatingbridge on January 18, 2010, at 16:04:48
> Header: if you dislike whining, please don't read.
>
> God knows why. For 3-4 days, I woke up and felt o.k. Like, really, who was that depressed, f'd-up, neurotic person? It was really weird. Carpe Diem, I thought. I'll take it.
>
> This morning upon awakening, the flooding back of futility, the fatigue, the aches, the inability to counter any negative thought, the haunted house. What's the f'n point?
>
> I know so many of you soldier on, year after year. I hesitate to whine. In my own quiet way, I march along, too. After feeling unexpectedly good, this feels cruel. What can I expect? How can I plan a life never knowing how I'll feel? And now the fr*gg'n exhaustion. At my age, what are the chances of healing? Bulldog mentioned in another thread, (paraphrased) when does one just have to come to acceptance?
>
> Anyone who has read this, please don't judge me too harshly for whining. And for the heavy use of rhetorical questions. I need a hand to hold. Any one free today?Your depression appears to cycle, right? Can you tell me meds you have tried and combos? Are you female?
Posted by floatingbridge on January 18, 2010, at 17:45:13
In reply to Re: pity party at my house: three day remission ov, posted by inanimate peanut on January 18, 2010, at 16:45:44
> (((floatingbridge))) you're not whining- you're pointing out a sudden shift in your mood. I, for one, wish you didn't have to go through it. Remember I'm here to listen.
Thanks peanut. Self-pity is one of my unhelpful vices. I appreciate the acceptance.
((hugs back--through the fog--hope it's lifted))
fb
Posted by bulldog2 on January 18, 2010, at 17:45:26
In reply to pity party at my house: three day remission over, posted by floatingbridge on January 18, 2010, at 16:04:48
> Header: if you dislike whining, please don't read.
>
> God knows why. For 3-4 days, I woke up and felt o.k. Like, really, who was that depressed, f'd-up, neurotic person? It was really weird. Carpe Diem, I thought. I'll take it.
>
> This morning upon awakening, the flooding back of futility, the fatigue, the aches, the inability to counter any negative thought, the haunted house. What's the f'n point?
>
> I know so many of you soldier on, year after year. I hesitate to whine. In my own quiet way, I march along, too. After feeling unexpectedly good, this feels cruel. What can I expect? How can I plan a life never knowing how I'll feel? And now the fr*gg'n exhaustion. At my age, what are the chances of healing? Bulldog mentioned in another thread, (paraphrased) when does one just have to come to acceptance?
>
> Anyone who has read this, please don't judge me too harshly for whining. And for the heavy use of rhetorical questions. I need a hand to hold. Any one free today?Go ahead and whine you have a right to. I believe you also suffered from childhood ptsd complex? From what I've read in the above link by kayla there is permanent damgage. This is a disease to be managed like diabetes. With meds and therapy you can improve the quality of your life. Like any disability, acceptance will make you feel better. This is who we are. Yes you have to be tough like a soldier and learn to trudge along. Some days will be better than others. If you have a bad day don't dispair because tomorrow might bring a better day. But I have long stopped believing that one day i will wake up and be just like any normal person whatever that is. Learn to be tough and resiliant because there still is pleasure and fun at times. But also you must learn to live with the pain. So think and feel like a soldier in a war. When they can they drink a glass of wine or smoke a cigarrete. Make love when they can. But also learn to live with shells and bullets raining on them at times. Be tough and courageous for this is our destiny.
Posted by bulldog2 on January 18, 2010, at 17:53:18
In reply to pity party at my house: three day remission over, posted by floatingbridge on January 18, 2010, at 16:04:48
> Header: if you dislike whining, please don't read.
>
> God knows why. For 3-4 days, I woke up and felt o.k. Like, really, who was that depressed, f'd-up, neurotic person? It was really weird. Carpe Diem, I thought. I'll take it.
>
> This morning upon awakening, the flooding back of futility, the fatigue, the aches, the inability to counter any negative thought, the haunted house. What's the f'n point?
>
> I know so many of you soldier on, year after year. I hesitate to whine. In my own quiet way, I march along, too. After feeling unexpectedly good, this feels cruel. What can I expect? How can I plan a life never knowing how I'll feel? And now the fr*gg'n exhaustion. At my age, what are the chances of healing? Bulldog mentioned in another thread, (paraphrased) when does one just have to come to acceptance?
>
> Anyone who has read this, please don't judge me too harshly for whining. And for the heavy use of rhetorical questions. I need a hand to hold. Any one free today?Yes please hold my hand and walk with me. It does help to soldier on together.
Posted by floatingbridge on January 18, 2010, at 17:58:12
In reply to Re: pity party at my house: three day remission over, posted by polarbear206 on January 18, 2010, at 17:15:27
> Your depression appears to cycle, right? Can you tell me meds you have tried and combos? Are you female?
Hi PB, thanks for your interest.
My moods shift daily. Sometimes a pattern emerges only to change. Mornings are worse, and usually, as the day goes on, lightens.
I am a woman. My current meds are pristiq 50mg, dexadrine 45-60mg, xanax xr 1-1.5mg, xanax prn (about .5mg).
Mood stabilizers have been depakote (I forget the dose; it's been about 10 years), and abilify.
I keep a mood chart / med chart daily. My current pdoc/t changed my dx from BP nos to major depression recurrent and ptsd.
When I first sought help twelve years ago, I was dx'd as soft BP and cyclothymic. Depakote didn't help, but it flattened me. So did abilify, without helping.
I have a consult next week at the depression clinic (not the BP clinic)....
The shift I was referring to is unprecedented. I've never felt 'free' of depression for, oh, 35 years. No mania, either. Just a nice feeling of 'life is possible' and enjoyment.
Thanks Polar Bear, for asking,
fb
Posted by floatingbridge on January 18, 2010, at 18:01:08
In reply to Re: pity party at my house: three day remission over, posted by bulldog2 on January 18, 2010, at 17:53:18
I know you know.
Posted by janejane on January 18, 2010, at 19:01:19
In reply to pity party at my house: three day remission over, posted by floatingbridge on January 18, 2010, at 16:04:48
Oh, fb, I'm so sorry you're feeling bad. You so don't deserve it.
It's funny but I've been feeling pretty stable lately (knock on wood), and I actually caught myself wondering today how I could ever have been depressed. (On the other hand, when I'm down, I can't remember what it's like to be normal and wonder why anyone would bother to live since it's so obviously pointless and unbearable.) It's so unfair that mood can be so fickle and independent of will, isn't it?
Don't worry about whining. You're allowed. You can hold my hand if you want, though I must warn you, it tends to get sweaty. (How do you make the emoticon for blushing?)
Your Stanford appointment is coming up, right? Maybe that can be your little beacon of hope to help get through the next week.
Just out of curiosity, does this downturn have anything to do with your menstrual cycle? I'm asking since it seems pretty sudden, and this is how it sometimes happens for me. I definitely have 4-5 days per month when there is a much greater tendency for me to feel abysmal. (Other times can be bad too, but the most dismal, dreadful, tearful days seem to be associated with that certain time in my cycle.) When it happens, I try to tell myself that the worst will be over in a few days. Until then, I just keep the tissue box handy and try to pamper myself. I'm really not looking forward to menopause since part of what gets me through the really bad times is their predictability.
What things do you like to do to be nice to yourself? Have you done any today? I'll put a vote in for chocolate and flowers. Chocolate for obvious reasons (in ice cream form is especially good). Flowers just feel so wonderfully indulgent, even if they're only a $5 bouquet from the grocery store. When I buy them, I'll put the vase in my office in view of where I'm sitting so I can look at them intermittently. I find that enjoying their beauty and smell provides a little bit of a distraction from ruminating thoughts. They also help to make me feel special and deserving of good things.
I don't want to buck the trend here, but I think we should all strive for full remission. I actually read this in a psychopharm book, and I think it's a good goal to have. Never give up on feeling better. I lived with partial remission for a long time and regret having compromised. My goals are loftier now.
Posted by polarbear206 on January 18, 2010, at 19:02:09
In reply to Re: pity party at my house: three day remission ov » polarbear206, posted by floatingbridge on January 18, 2010, at 17:58:12
> > Your depression appears to cycle, right? Can you tell me meds you have tried and combos? Are you female?
>
> Hi PB, thanks for your interest.
>
> My moods shift daily. Sometimes a pattern emerges only to change. Mornings are worse, and usually, as the day goes on, lightens.
>
> I am a woman. My current meds are pristiq 50mg, dexadrine 45-60mg, xanax xr 1-1.5mg, xanax prn (about .5mg).
>
> Mood stabilizers have been depakote (I forget the dose; it's been about 10 years), and abilify.
>
> I keep a mood chart / med chart daily. My current pdoc/t changed my dx from BP nos to major depression recurrent and ptsd.
>
> When I first sought help twelve years ago, I was dx'd as soft BP and cyclothymic. Depakote didn't help, but it flattened me. So did abilify, without helping.
>
> I have a consult next week at the depression clinic (not the BP clinic)....
>
> The shift I was referring to is unprecedented. I've never felt 'free' of depression for, oh, 35 years. No mania, either. Just a nice feeling of 'life is possible' and enjoyment.
>
> Thanks Polar Bear, for asking,
>
I can see some similarities with your situation. My symptoms started after my son was born 21 years ago. Ended up in the psyche ward for 3 day with PPD. I have soft bipolar. No real hypomania. Good energy, creative, can get alot accomplished. Of course, I need less sleep at times. Doesn't interfere too much with my day to day routine. I'll crash and take naps on occasion. I try to nip it in the butt before it gets worse, so I'll pop a klonopin so I can get more sleep. Winter is worse because there is a seasonal pattern to my illness. PMS worse too. I have been pretty stable for a long time now. I diagnosed myself. Went to the p-doc and told him that I needed a mood stablizer because AD's alone were exacerbating my depression. My mornings were the worse!!! It would lift as the day went by. I would get out of bed and feel like I got hit by a truck even though I thought I was getting enough sleep. I had the atypical depression symptoms (hypersomnia, hyperpahgia,body aches, anxiety, etc..My body felt like it got hit by a truck. Big effort to even brush my teeth, etc... I wonder if your stimulant is exacerbating your depression? You probably need an AD that targets norep/serotonin like what you are on, but perhaps a higher dose or switch to other SNRI? Mood stablizers that I have tried were depakote, and Lithium with no success. Tried Ritalin too for the overwhelming fatigue I would get and no go. Lamictal has worked wonders for me and I take 200mg with 300 of effexor. My BP is depression dominated. I'm typing this real fast because I got to go make supper. Have you ever tried Lamictal? Psycheducation.org is an excellent site to do some research.
Posted by Maxime on January 18, 2010, at 19:46:36
In reply to pity party at my house: three day remission over, posted by floatingbridge on January 18, 2010, at 16:04:48
To be honest, I don't know how you have gone so long without having a breakdown. I remember when you were waiting for your doctor to return in OCTOBER. You haven't felt well for a long time. You have the right to have a pity party.
Until your appt. be kind to yourself as possible. You deserve it. You don't deserve pain and depression. You are almost there, your appt is around the corner. Plus you may wake up sometime this week feel better. I will pray for you.
xoxox
Posted by Phillipa on January 18, 2010, at 21:48:12
In reply to Re: pity party at my house: three day remission over » floatingbridge, posted by Maxime on January 18, 2010, at 19:46:36
Fb reminds me of Scott's three day blip remission and back to status quo. I'm sorry. But Stanford is on the horizon and hopefully will get good answers. Love and walk with me Phillipa
Posted by floatingbridge on January 19, 2010, at 0:30:42
In reply to (((fb))) » floatingbridge, posted by janejane on January 18, 2010, at 19:01:19
>
> Just out of curiosity, does this downturn have anything to do with your menstrual cycle? I'm asking since it seems pretty sudden, and this is how it sometimes happens for me. I definitely have 4-5 days per month when there is a much greater tendency for me to feel abysmal.... I'm really not looking forward to menopause since part of what gets me through the really bad times is their predictability.Well, I think I'm hitting menopause. My last cycle was 40 days. This cycle is going on 50. Felt like menses was imminent for days, then blah. Nothing. I used to get a real boost the week and days before my period. The actual period itself was misery.
>
> What things do you like to do to be nice to yourself?Chocolate that I just happened to have on hand, a walk with a friend (that is when I am not afraid of everyone), taking in my son's beauty, fruit, and flowers, yes, but where do you shop? I haven't seen a 5$ bouquet in years!
>Flowers just feel so wonderfully indulgent, even if they're only a $5 bouquet from the grocery store. When I buy them, I'll put the vase in my office in view of where I'm sitting so I can look at them intermittently. I find that enjoying their beauty and smell provides a little bit of a distraction from ruminating thoughts. They also help to make me feel special and deserving of good things.
>
> I don't want to buck the trend here, but I think we should all strive for full remission. I actually read this in a psychopharm book, and I think it's a good goal to have. Never give up on feeling better. I lived with partial remission for a long time and regret having compromised. My goals are loftier now.What psychopharm book--is it worth recommending? My pdoc holds out this goal--but for me, it's too difficult to really believe. However, I do like to hear you say that--hold on to your goals! You seem to have found good coping strategies and ways to self-soothe.
No problem with sweaty hands--mine are like ice these days--darn raynauds syndrome!
thanks, sweetie,
fb
funny, the top of my reply was lost--about the emotional amnesia that you mention. Oh well. I also said I was feeling better, but a little shaken, and I thanked you for your kindness. So, thanks!
Posted by floatingbridge on January 19, 2010, at 0:52:07
In reply to Re: pity party at my house: three day remission ov, posted by polarbear206 on January 18, 2010, at 19:02:09
> I can see some similarities with your situation. My symptoms started after my son was born 21 years ago. Ended up in the psyche ward for 3 day with PPD.
No symptoms before your son was born?
>I have soft bipolar. No real hypomania. Good energy, creative, can get alot accomplished. Of course, I need less sleep at times. Doesn't interfere too much with my day to day routine. I'll crash and take naps on occasion. I try to nip it in the butt before it gets worse, so I'll pop a klonopin so I can get more sleep. Winter is worse because there is a seasonal pattern to my illness. PMS worse too. I have been pretty stable for a long time now.
I'm glad to hear you are stable. I used to have more energy--now nothing. I was creative once-upon-a-time. You seem to have a handle on self-care and preemptive measures
>I diagnosed myself. Went to the p-doc and told him that I needed a mood stabilizer because AD's alone were exacerbating my depression. My mornings were the worse!!! It would lift as the day went by. I would get out of bed and feel like I got hit by a truck even though I thought I was getting enough sleep. I had the atypical depression symptoms (hypersomnia, hyperpahgia,body aches, anxiety, etc..My body felt like it got hit by a truck. Big effort to even brush my teeth, etc...
So, as time went by, you became more fatigued and achey? And that cleared up with the lamictal? My pdoc mentioned that, but with my med phobias and some negative reactions, I didn't want to try it as an add-on to my current regime--though he hasn't retracted my current dx. Hmmm.
>I wonder if your stimulant is exacerbating your depression? You probably need an AD that targets norep/serotonin like what you are on, but perhaps a higher dose or switch to other SNRI? Mood stablizers that I have tried were depakote, and Lithium with no success. Tried Ritalin too for the overwhelming fatigue I would get and no go. Lamictal has worked wonders for me and I take 200mg with 300 of effexor. My BP is depression dominated. I'm typing this real fast because I got to go make supper. Have you ever tried Lamictal? Psycheducation.org is an excellent site to do some research.Gosh, thanks PB for taking the time and sharing. I once did well on effexor (not the pristiq). Wellbutrin was a no-go, and strattera was awful. Things to think about. Will check out that link. How much lamictal works for you? I do feel that the dex is wearing me out--though I do have add, too (great, huh?), and it gives me focus, too, while putting the plug in my social anxiety. But I'd love to replace it or reduce it--not rely on it.
Hope your supper was good!
fb
Posted by floatingbridge on January 19, 2010, at 0:55:16
In reply to Re: pity party at my house: three day remission over » floatingbridge, posted by Maxime on January 18, 2010, at 19:46:36
Hope you are getting some good sleep tonight.
Hardly any faery dust tonight--light touch.
Posted by floatingbridge on January 19, 2010, at 0:58:04
In reply to Re: pity party at my house: three day remission over, posted by Phillipa on January 18, 2010, at 21:48:12
> Fb reminds me of Scott's three day blip remission and back to status quo. I'm sorry. But Stanford is on the horizon and hopefully will get good answers. Love and walk with me Phillipa
Thanks Phillipa. I haven't gotten my walking sticks yet--it would be fun to try them out together!
xo
fb
Posted by floatingbridge on January 19, 2010, at 1:00:13
In reply to Re: pity party at my house: three day remission ov, posted by inanimate peanut on January 18, 2010, at 16:45:44
> (((floatingbridge))) you're not whining- you're pointing out a sudden shift in your mood. I, for one, wish you didn't have to go through it. Remember I'm here to listen.
Hope you get the rest you need and have a good day tomorrow!
thanks for listening,
fb
Posted by g_g_g_unit on January 19, 2010, at 1:46:47
In reply to thanks peanut! » inanimate peanut, posted by floatingbridge on January 19, 2010, at 1:00:13
Hey floatingbridge,
You're always so indulging with my worries and woes that I couldn't help but return the favor. I must admit that over the course of the past two years, my remission capabilities wish-list has shrunk dramatically. Right now I'd settle for the attention span to read again, and refreshing sleep. Still, it's hard to break out of my idyllic daydreams about what being normal might feel like - they say it doesn't truly exist, which is even more discomforting because then I'm left wondering how everyone else copes!
Hope you find your peace.
Best
Posted by janejane on January 19, 2010, at 8:16:16
In reply to Re: (((fb))) » janejane, posted by floatingbridge on January 19, 2010, at 0:30:42
> Well, I think I'm hitting menopause. My last cycle was 40 days. This cycle is going on 50. Felt like menses was imminent for days, then blah. Nothing. I used to get a real boost the week and days before my period. The actual period itself was misery.
Interesting. I usually start to feel bad a day or two before my period, and it continues a few days into it. (I thought I was unusual since it's supposed to be PREmenstrual syndrome, right?) Are you doing anything hormone-wise? I know there have been threads regarding this, but I haven't kept up with them so forgive me for not knowing/remembering if you've discussed this elsewhere.
> What psychopharm book--is it worth recommending?
The book is "Depression and Bipolar Disorder: Stahl's Essential Psychopharmacology, 3rd edition". I got a used paperback version it so wasn't so expensive (under $20), but much of it is over my head. I believe the depression and bipolar volume simply consists of a few chapters of out "Stahl's Essential Psychopharmacology: Neuroscientific Basis and Practical Applications". I have a feeling that everything might have made more sense if I had been able to read some introductory material from the larger volume before delving into the depression material, but it was expensive so I skimped. I'm not really good at following heavy science stuff anyway, so it may not have made a difference. That said, there's lots of neat info in there that I have not seen elsewhere. You can do a "search inside this book" at the amazon link to page through. I just tried searching for milnacipran (since you had asked about it in a different thread), and there's some stuff in there about it even though it wasn't approved when it was printed.
There are also prescriber's guides in the series too, for example, "The Prescriber's Guide, Antidepressants". If you use the search feature, you can find milnacipran on page 125. (Actually, it looks like there's more info about it there than in the other book.)
Posted by janejane on January 19, 2010, at 9:31:49
In reply to Re: (((fb))) » floatingbridge, posted by janejane on January 19, 2010, at 8:16:16
Not that it matters too much, but I just realized that the link I gave for the depression book was for hardcover instead of paperback. Paperback is this one: "Depression and Bipolar Disorder: Stahl's Essential Psychopharmacology, 3rd edition (Essential Psychopharmacology Series) (Paperback)".
Posted by Maxime on January 21, 2010, at 16:44:52
In reply to Re: (((fb))), posted by janejane on January 19, 2010, at 9:31:49
Posted by floatingbridge on January 22, 2010, at 0:33:13
In reply to Re: thanks peanut!, posted by g_g_g_unit on January 19, 2010, at 1:46:47
Hi ggg, thanks for being here.
Normal sounds good, whatever that is. I did have three good days, and I enjoyed them. If I could sustain a decent baselevel, maybe I could work. I can read sometimes now. I know what you mean about reading and do the ordinary things some can take for granted. Have
you had a 'normal' baseline before? (I'm trying to invent one....)hugs, ggg. And thanks for indulging me.
Peace to you, too,
fb
> Hey floatingbridge,
>
> You're always so indulging with my worries and woes that I couldn't help but return the favor. I must admit that over the course of the past two years, my remission capabilities wish-list has shrunk dramatically. Right now I'd settle for the attention span to read again, and refreshing sleep. Still, it's hard to break out of my idyllic daydreams about what being normal might feel like - they say it doesn't truly exist, which is even more discomforting because then I'm left wondering how everyone else copes!
>
> Hope you find your peace.
>
> Best
Posted by floatingbridge on January 22, 2010, at 0:43:55
In reply to Re: (((fb))) » floatingbridge, posted by janejane on January 19, 2010, at 8:16:16
Thanks for the link--looks a little heady for me-- though I notice some info sticks upon the tenth exposure. I'll look for it used.
Hormones--guess I should find an endo. Sigh. I'm sure that's complicating everything. And the information seems so contradictory.
Thanks for the support on a rough couple of days,
fb
Posted by floatingbridge on January 22, 2010, at 0:48:39
In reply to Thinking of you (((FB))) (nm), posted by Maxime on January 21, 2010, at 16:44:52
Maxine, I read your sleep post earlier--was the interviewer an horse's rump or what? I'm angry on your behalf.
more good sleep, and better days to come, sweetie,
fb
Posted by g_g_g_unit on January 22, 2010, at 2:29:33
In reply to hi ggg » g_g_g_unit, posted by floatingbridge on January 22, 2010, at 0:33:13
> Hi ggg, thanks for being here.
>
> I know what you mean about reading and do the ordinary things some can take for granted.i know - i've wanted to punch walls trying to explain to my mom why i can't finish a book (let alone a chapter) lately. her response is that i simply need to force myself. i was gifted once .. supposedly .. and i think the expectations she has for me now probably make recovering harder.
>Have
> you had a 'normal' baseline before? (I'm trying to invent one....)i guess high school was my baseline? that's the last time i can recall feeling semi-normal before the chronic anxiety and OCD took center stage (i wouldn't say i was happy, though .. just more oblivious).
i was wondering how you're finding pristiq? my guess is i'll probably be put back on an AD once i see a new psych, so i'm curious how it rates compared to SSRI's etc?
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