![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 15 to 39 of 54. Go back in thread:
Posted by janejane on January 1, 2010, at 5:33:44
In reply to Re: New Year...New Plan, Advice needed.... » Phidippus, posted by inanimate peanut on December 31, 2009, at 17:56:38
> "All of the drugs you take will work upon reinstatement."
>
> I would be careful saying this. Everyone's body is different. For me, every drug I've ever gone off of has not worked when I've tried to go back on it, even if I was only off it for a couple of weeks. There is a very real possibility that you could go off the meds and then not have them work if you were to try to go back on them!I was thinking the same thing. I've certainly had the experience where a drug hasn't worked upon reinstatement. I've read about this happening to other babblers too.
Posted by Buckeye Fan on January 1, 2010, at 8:55:44
In reply to Re: New Year...New Plan, Advice needed...., posted by SLS on December 31, 2009, at 8:50:46
> My inclination is to first discontinue the Pristiq. If the objective is to remain free of depression and GAD, you might as well find out as soon as possible whether or not you need the primary drug that is supposed to manage these core symptoms. I would then get rid of the trazodone. Leaving the Librium in place might mitigate the withdrawal syndromes of the other two drugs. Then, you can begin the taper process to discontinue the Librium.
>
> Good luck.>
> - Scott
After thinking it over, I have decided your reply is sound advice...so today is my first "cut" of Pristiq.
Your post reminded me that this AD has become my primary medication.
I started out years ago simply on Xanax...nothing else.
Later on... I was impressed upon by my MD to add Zoloft.
Then 2 1/2 years ago...Trazadone was prescribed as I tapered off my xanax addiction, because of tolerance, as I had gone from .25mgs per day to 4-6mgs daily!!!So...my plan is, Pristiq first. I am going to go slowly, although it is very difficult to cut these 50mg pills.( 50 being the lowest available dose of pristiq)
I will keep a posting of my progress and what I encounter, I hope everyone doesnt mind.
I have tried once before to taper...but I told no one, and the withdrawl was too much for me to remain objective about...so I ended up reinstating.
Thanks for the advice Scott.
Posted by Buckeye Fan on January 1, 2010, at 9:04:50
In reply to Re: New Year...New Plan, Advice needed.... » Buckeye Fan, posted by 49er on December 31, 2009, at 9:13:01
BF,
>
> As one who has slowly tapered off of 4 psych meds down to 3.79mg of Doxepin, I would save Trazadone for last since that is your sleep med.
>
> If you taper that first and then do the other meds, you may have more rebound insomnia than you would be saving it for last. Of course, saving it for last doesn't guarantee you won't have rebound insomnia. But I think it will be less.
>
> I am not sure if you should taper Librium or Prisitiq first. I would pick the drug that is causing you the most problems.
>
> I don't mean to sound discouraging but you're not going to know who the real you is for awhile. You will see flashes of that person but even a slow withdrawal will cause alot of adjustments for your brain.
>
> Also, remember, you're not the same person you were 12 years ago. No one is.
>
> By the way, I started tapering in 2006 after starting on meds over 10 years ago. You can do this but please taper slowly at 10% of current dose every 3 to 6 weeks. You may need to even go more slowly.
>
> Yes, it will take awhile but you're chances of being more successful will increase with a slow taper. Your body needs time to adjust to the neurochemical changes these drugs have made throughout it during the 12 years you have been on the meds. This isn't a case of lowering a drug level like Tylenol.
>
> Write me off list if you want support. You can do this.
>
> 49er
Thanks for the advice 49er...you mentioned what is one of my biggest concerns.......that over a decade of artificial prevention of the re-uptaking of sertraline and other brain chemicals, MAY have left my system atrophyed as far as being able to produce my own "feel good" chemicals( dopemine, noropheneophrine, etc..)I will take you up on your offer for e-mail support.
Thanks
BF
Posted by Buckeye Fan on January 1, 2010, at 9:09:58
In reply to Re: New Year...New Plan, Advice needed.... » 49er, posted by janejane on December 31, 2009, at 9:19:56
> Buckeye... I've read that it's better to taper off drugs in spring time since winter can be SAD for many people.
You raise a valid point janejane....I will try and remember that on these cold,gray winter days.
I have somewhat of a timetable that does not afford me the luxury of waiting till Spring to start.Thak you for your advice
BF
Posted by 49er on January 1, 2010, at 9:10:54
In reply to Re: New Year...New Plan, Advice needed...., posted by Buckeye Fan on January 1, 2010, at 8:55:44
BF.
In my opinion, to have a successful taper, you need to not cut by more than 10% of current dose every 3 to 6 weeks.
You're right, Pritiq is a hard drug to cut. Here are your options.
1. Switch to Effexor since the chemical makeup is similar. I have no clue how to do this because I have never been on Effexor. But there are folks on Paxil Progress boards who are tapering it. The site is www.paxilprogress.org.
2. Switch to Prozac since it comes in liquid form and would be very easy to make small cuts with. You do risk startup side effects in the switch so keep that in mind.
3. Have your psychiatrist write the correct dose for a compound pharmacy since you wouldn't be able to get a smaller dose at your local CVS. Here is a site for locating one near you:
http://www.iacprx.org/site/PageServer?pagename=home_page
I like this option the best because you know you will be getting the correct dose and you don't have to worry about switching meds.
Unfortunately, not all insurance companies cover compound pharmacies and even if they do, your co-payment may be more than it would if you had gone to your local CVS pharmacy.
Good luck.
49er
Posted by Buckeye Fan on January 1, 2010, at 9:21:24
In reply to Re: New Year...New Plan, Advice needed...., posted by Relapse on December 31, 2009, at 10:31:56
> Be careful - I too wanted to find the real me after years of meds. A year @ 1/2 ago I came off all my meds. I found the real me several months later lying face down, quivering in a pool of sweat. Maybe someday.
> Dave
Dave...thank you for acknowledging the 800 pound Gorilla in the room that I didnt want to talk about.~
After reading hundreds of experiences from others who have attempted being Med Free, and ending up in a similiar state you described...it IS A BIG CONCERN OF MINE!
That of course is why "failed reinstatement" is such a concern to me.Some would advise me to just remain on my Meds since they are "working".
I guess I want more.
The old me that was full of life, energy and had a natural flow of emotional responses without medication.Were there problems that prompted me to seek help? Certainly.
Anxiety and panic attacks combined with Agoraphobia were my personal demons.But that was 15 years ago !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am hoping that NOW my knowledge will allow me to understand my nervous systems response to stress, and be able to objectively see the inevitable "rebound effect" of both anxiety and depression.
I hope to go through the process of these likely nervous system responses...and to come out on the other side .I would however be less than honest if I didnt admit I am somewhat afraid.
Thank you for advice and concern
BF
Posted by Buckeye Fan on January 1, 2010, at 9:23:27
In reply to Re: New Year...New Plan, Advice needed...., posted by Relapse on December 31, 2009, at 10:31:56
> Be careful - I too wanted to find the real me after years of meds. A year @ 1/2 ago I came off all my meds. I found the real me several months later lying face down, quivering in a pool of sweat. Maybe someday.
> Dave
Dave...thank you for acknowledging the 800 pound Gorilla in the room that I didnt want to talk about.~
After reading hundreds of experiences from others who have attempted being Med Free, and ending up in a similiar state you described...it IS A BIG CONCERN OF MINE!
That of course is why "failed reinstatement" is such a concern to me.Some would advise me to just remain on my Meds since they are "working".
I guess I want more.
The old me that was full of life, energy and had a natural flow of emotional responses without medication.Were there problems that prompted me to seek help? Certainly.
Anxiety and panic attacks combined with Agoraphobia were my personal demons.But that was 15 years ago !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am hoping that NOW my knowledge will allow me to understand my nervous systems response to stress, and be able to objectively see the inevitable "rebound effect" of both anxiety and depression.
I hope to go through the process of these likely nervous system responses...and to come out on the other side .I would however be less than honest if I didnt admit I am somewhat afraid.
Thank you for advice and concern
BF
Posted by 49er on January 1, 2010, at 9:35:38
In reply to Re: New Year...New Plan, Advice needed...., posted by Buckeye Fan on January 1, 2010, at 9:04:50
>
> Thanks for the advice 49er...you mentioned what is one of my biggest concerns.......that over a decade of artificial prevention of the re-uptaking of sertraline and other brain chemicals, MAY have left my system atrophyed as far as being able to produce my own "feel good" chemicals( dopemine, noropheneophrine, etc..)
>
Hi BF,Getting your system back in gear simply takes time and it will require patience. Easier said than done, I know.
In one of your other posts, you talked about having fear which I think is normal.
When I was having severe rebound insomnia, I wondered if I would ever be able to get off the drug and sleep normally. But I try to take it one step at a time.
Again, easier said than done.
49er
Posted by Buckeye Fan on January 1, 2010, at 9:35:58
In reply to Lou's response-grtglf » Buckeye Fan, posted by Lou Pilder on December 31, 2009, at 13:30:57
> BF,
> You wrote,[...I am tired of the side-effects of long-term drug use...my goal..med free in 2010...nor do I know if it the right thing to do..have to try and see if I can function drug-free...the real me may no longer exist...if I have to reinstate...].
> I see a picture of you standing at The Great Gulf. On the other side I see a new life, before drugs, the real you, where I think that there were once green fields and valleys where rivers run, and an everlasting love. Now there are dark clouds and cold winds and you want to see if the real you exists so that you can return to the green fields and the everlasting love. Is that where you are at?
> If this is the picture that you see, you can return to the green fields, where that was your home.
> Lou
Lou...this is exactly where I am.,,,you nailed it.Thanks...
BF
Posted by Buckeye Fan on January 1, 2010, at 10:07:37
In reply to Re: New Year...New Plan, Advice needed.... » Buckeye Fan, posted by Phidippus on December 31, 2009, at 15:40:20
> > After more than 12 years of benzo's and anti-depressants, I feel I have lost too much of the real me.
>
> Be sure you're not confusing symptoms with the 'real you'. Drugs do little to take away from the basic person you are and are really designed to eliminate the symptoms of mental illness which do much more to abscond the 'real you' than the side effects of most drugs. I can not function as the 'real' me without Lithium, period. I lose myself to the symptoms of my illness without a simple metal.
I understand where you are coming from
Phidippus....but I must say in my case and in testimonies of others I have read about and posted with....long term PDrugs can and do have an effect on ones basic personality.
I think it stands to reason that by ingesting Meds that dull the responses to Life, a person will "adjust" to these dulling effects by incorporating new responses and thinking patterns in response to Life's challenges, after years and years of antidepressants, tranquilizers and mood stabilizers.At least I believe that is true in my case.
The Meds we take take have a blanket effect on our nervous system, and our reaction to Life.
That is the purpose for many of these Meds.
To compensate or lessen our bodies OVER-REACTION to stress, trauma , and misplaced thinking patterns.
They DO serve their purpose by dampening our CNS
so we can deal with reality and our problems, challenges and attain our Goals.
Unfortunately....these Meds cannot be "turned-off" selectively...we cannot get properly excited when something great happens in our life...nor do we fall into a suicidal despair when things done go our way.
PDrugs are a mixed bag...and we take the good with the bad.
> Does the cancer patient lose themselves to the bone-burning effects of their chemotherapy? No, but when the cancer spreads to their brain, they certainly do. We mentally disabled may not have cancer encroaching on our minds, but instead were born with inadequacies instilled in our thinking organ and those inadequacies can cripple us in an instant. We toil with invisible disabilities and need medication just as much as the sufferer of MS.
>
> Without medication we can't be ourselves, otherwise riddled with anxiety, fending off voices or riding the waves of impossible emotions. An array of pills are available to us and more than likely we choose the pills that make us feel best and suit our basic selves. Pills can never make us something we are not because we reject those that make us feel not-ourselves.Again...you raise some excellent points!
I believe in many cases these drugs are every bit as life saving as insulin to the diabetic.
Many are predisposed to severe mental illness that history records drove them to an untimely grave or worse.I guess I need to find out if I can be one that functions without them.
Maybe I cannot...but I feel I must try.
> P
Thanks for your insight, and I will keep you postedBF
Posted by bulldog2 on January 1, 2010, at 18:00:25
In reply to Re: New Year...New Plan, Advice needed...., posted by Buckeye Fan on January 1, 2010, at 10:07:37
> > > After more than 12 years of benzo's and anti-depressants, I feel I have lost too much of the real me.
>
> >
> > Be sure you're not confusing symptoms with the 'real you'. Drugs do little to take away from the basic person you are and are really designed to eliminate the symptoms of mental illness which do much more to abscond the 'real you' than the side effects of most drugs. I can not function as the 'real' me without Lithium, period. I lose myself to the symptoms of my illness without a simple metal.
>
>
> I understand where you are coming from
> Phidippus....but I must say in my case and in testimonies of others I have read about and posted with....long term PDrugs can and do have an effect on ones basic personality.
> I think it stands to reason that by ingesting Meds that dull the responses to Life, a person will "adjust" to these dulling effects by incorporating new responses and thinking patterns in response to Life's challenges, after years and years of antidepressants, tranquilizers and mood stabilizers.
>
> At least I believe that is true in my case.
>
> The Meds we take take have a blanket effect on our nervous system, and our reaction to Life.
> That is the purpose for many of these Meds.
> To compensate or lessen our bodies OVER-REACTION to stress, trauma , and misplaced thinking patterns.
> They DO serve their purpose by dampening our CNS
> so we can deal with reality and our problems, challenges and attain our Goals.
> Unfortunately....these Meds cannot be "turned-off" selectively...we cannot get properly excited when something great happens in our life...nor do we fall into a suicidal despair when things done go our way.
> PDrugs are a mixed bag...and we take the good with the bad.
>
>
>
> > Does the cancer patient lose themselves to the bone-burning effects of their chemotherapy? No, but when the cancer spreads to their brain, they certainly do. We mentally disabled may not have cancer encroaching on our minds, but instead were born with inadequacies instilled in our thinking organ and those inadequacies can cripple us in an instant. We toil with invisible disabilities and need medication just as much as the sufferer of MS.
> >
> > Without medication we can't be ourselves, otherwise riddled with anxiety, fending off voices or riding the waves of impossible emotions. An array of pills are available to us and more than likely we choose the pills that make us feel best and suit our basic selves. Pills can never make us something we are not because we reject those that make us feel not-ourselves.
>
> Again...you raise some excellent points!
> I believe in many cases these drugs are every bit as life saving as insulin to the diabetic.
> Many are predisposed to severe mental illness that history records drove them to an untimely grave or worse.
>
> I guess I need to find out if I can be one that functions without them.
> Maybe I cannot...but I feel I must try.
>
>
> > P
>
>
> Thanks for your insight, and I will keep you posted
>
> BF
>
>This obsession with the real you/me really baffles me. I think this concept is overrated. Has it ever occurred to you that the real you may be a mentally ill person with depression. I don't know but that may be the case. People born without legs wear prosthetic ones. Are they changing the real you? The deaf often get implants to help them experience sounds. Are you afraid you are offending God? For me the reality is life is about being as happy as I can be and if I require assistance so be it.
Nature is not always kind in her creations. The real you may not be a happy person. Just take whatever path makes you feel good wether it is drug free or on drugs.
You appear to feel guilty about being on meds. There is an undercurrent of that in your posts. If it turns out you need meds well that is the real you making the decision. Try being med free if you wish. But you are not required by any edict other than the opinions of others to be on or off of drugs. If you really don't want to go off of drugs than don't feel compelled to go off.You have posted this multiple times and you get the same answers. So tell us what is the real issue.Is there something else other than what you have told us?
Posted by Lou Pilder on January 1, 2010, at 19:49:49
In reply to Re: New Year...New Plan, Advice needed...., posted by bulldog2 on January 1, 2010, at 18:00:25
> > > > After more than 12 years of benzo's and anti-depressants, I feel I have lost too much of the real me.
> >
> > >
> > > Be sure you're not confusing symptoms with the 'real you'. Drugs do little to take away from the basic person you are and are really designed to eliminate the symptoms of mental illness which do much more to abscond the 'real you' than the side effects of most drugs. I can not function as the 'real' me without Lithium, period. I lose myself to the symptoms of my illness without a simple metal.
> >
> >
> > I understand where you are coming from
> > Phidippus....but I must say in my case and in testimonies of others I have read about and posted with....long term PDrugs can and do have an effect on ones basic personality.
> > I think it stands to reason that by ingesting Meds that dull the responses to Life, a person will "adjust" to these dulling effects by incorporating new responses and thinking patterns in response to Life's challenges, after years and years of antidepressants, tranquilizers and mood stabilizers.
> >
> > At least I believe that is true in my case.
> >
> > The Meds we take take have a blanket effect on our nervous system, and our reaction to Life.
> > That is the purpose for many of these Meds.
> > To compensate or lessen our bodies OVER-REACTION to stress, trauma , and misplaced thinking patterns.
> > They DO serve their purpose by dampening our CNS
> > so we can deal with reality and our problems, challenges and attain our Goals.
> > Unfortunately....these Meds cannot be "turned-off" selectively...we cannot get properly excited when something great happens in our life...nor do we fall into a suicidal despair when things done go our way.
> > PDrugs are a mixed bag...and we take the good with the bad.
> >
> >
> >
> > > Does the cancer patient lose themselves to the bone-burning effects of their chemotherapy? No, but when the cancer spreads to their brain, they certainly do. We mentally disabled may not have cancer encroaching on our minds, but instead were born with inadequacies instilled in our thinking organ and those inadequacies can cripple us in an instant. We toil with invisible disabilities and need medication just as much as the sufferer of MS.
> > >
> > > Without medication we can't be ourselves, otherwise riddled with anxiety, fending off voices or riding the waves of impossible emotions. An array of pills are available to us and more than likely we choose the pills that make us feel best and suit our basic selves. Pills can never make us something we are not because we reject those that make us feel not-ourselves.
> >
> > Again...you raise some excellent points!
> > I believe in many cases these drugs are every bit as life saving as insulin to the diabetic.
> > Many are predisposed to severe mental illness that history records drove them to an untimely grave or worse.
> >
> > I guess I need to find out if I can be one that functions without them.
> > Maybe I cannot...but I feel I must try.
> >
> >
> > > P
> >
> >
> > Thanks for your insight, and I will keep you posted
> >
> > BF
> >
> >
>
> This obsession with the real you/me really baffles me. I think this concept is overrated. Has it ever occurred to you that the real you may be a mentally ill person with depression. I don't know but that may be the case. People born without legs wear prosthetic ones. Are they changing the real you? The deaf often get implants to help them experience sounds. Are you afraid you are offending God? For me the reality is life is about being as happy as I can be and if I require assistance so be it.
> Nature is not always kind in her creations. The real you may not be a happy person. Just take whatever path makes you feel good wether it is drug free or on drugs.
> You appear to feel guilty about being on meds. There is an undercurrent of that in your posts. If it turns out you need meds well that is the real you making the decision. Try being med free if you wish. But you are not required by any edict other than the opinions of others to be on or off of drugs. If you really don't want to go off of drugs than don't feel compelled to go off.
>
> You have posted this multiple times and you get the same answers. So tell us what is the real issue.Is there something else other than what you have told us?
>bd2,
I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean here. If you could post answers to the following, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
A. In,[...This xxxxxxxxx with the real you/me...], what criteria do you use to write that the member's wanting to return to a life before taking chemicals for 10 years is an xxxxxxxxx? If it is an xxxxxxxxx, could you post here as to as if it is a good xxxxxxxx or not?
B In,[...are you afraid of offending God?...], could you post here what criteria you used to write that, and what God you are referring to, and what siginificance it could be if the member is or is not afraid of offending a God that they may cherish and worship and give service to, and not want to offend that God?
C. In,[...you appear to feel guilty about being on...]
Could you post here what criteria you used to write that guilt is apparent to you? If so, could that guilt be good or not?
D. In,[...tell us what is the real issue...], (redacted by respondent)
Lou
Posted by Buckeye Fan on January 2, 2010, at 7:48:57
In reply to Re: New Year...New Plan, Advice needed...., posted by bulldog2 on January 1, 2010, at 18:00:25
> This obsession with the real you/me really baffles me. I think this concept is overrated.
Hi Bulldog2,..thanks for your response. I disagree with your "overated" statement. There is clearly a difference in my personality now...and that of my pre-Med years. I cannot speak for others,but if you re-read my "blanket effect" term of trying to describe the effects of PMeds, maybe it will shed some light on my real me comments.
Perhaps I could call it the Old me/ Current me..to better decribe what I am feeling and thinking.
Even when I take into consideration the years that have passed, and the changes any person would go through over a 12 year period....I am still faced with the FACT that my emotions, thought processes,reactions to life, and internal mental discourse...have been changed by the dampening effect of PMeds."Has it ever occurred to you that the real you may be a mentally ill person with depression. I don't know but that may be the case. People born without legs wear prosthetic ones. Are they changing the real you? The deaf often get implants to help them experience sounds."..
Yes...I am aware that I have had anxiety issues for as long as I can remember, way before I introduced PMeds into my system.
Having grown up in an alcoholic family ...I know that my early years were affected by fear and uncertainty.
However...my experiences of early trauma are MILD compared to those who have suffered through real hard core trauma and actual physical and mental abuse.
Next, in considering the comparison between physical helps and medical advances for those with physical injuries.....and Medication for those who suffer mental, emotional and phycological damage...I believe there is a difference.
Hearing Implants are clearly shown to improve the hearing ability of the deaf.
Prostetics are tremendous inventions to take the place of missing limbs.
These are clear-cut examples of physical limitations overcome by actual physical substitutes that closelt resemble the missing body parts.PMeds,...I believe....are a different.
While the same "attempt" is made by medical science, to repair, replace, or emulate something lacking in brain chemicals....we just do not currently have enough knowledge to understand the internal workings of the human brain.
Especially in the case of AD's...the labeling and definitions FROM THE PHARMACUTICAL COMPANIES AND THE PHYSICIANS clearly use terms like "..this medication is THOUGHT TO WORK on certain brain chemicals.....etc.. and "WHILE THE EXACT ACTION IS UNKNOWN"...etc..
This indicates that we just do not know for certain how these medication work.
Let me hasten to add that I am a fellow sufferer and fellow user of these medications...and my comments are in no way intended to make anyone feel bad, or to minimize the help these medication have been and continue to be for many!"Are you afraid you are offending God? For me the reality is life is about being as happy as I can be and if I require assistance so be it.
> Nature is not always kind in her creations. The real you may not be a happy person. Just take whatever path makes you feel good wether it is drug free or on drugs"Not quite sure where God was mentioned in my posts...but as I stated, I have trouble focusing and remembering...so maybe I brought it up elswhere. In any event, I would like to say I am a strong believer in God, and am thankful for His Son The Lord Jesus.~
I understand where you are coming from concerning being happy...and I would agree that medical assitance and advancements have added to the quality of Life for all of us...and for that I am thankful.> You appear to feel guilty about being on meds. There is an undercurrent of that in your posts. If it turns out you need meds well that is the real you making the decision. Try being med free if you wish. But you are not required by any edict other than the opinions of others to be on or off of drugs. If you really don't want to go off of drugs than don't feel compelled to go off.
>
> You have posted this multiple times and you get the same answers. So tell us what is the real issue.Is there something else other than what you have told us?"
I do not believe I am witholding any other information. I am certainly not confident that I can become drug-free. I may have used these Meds too often for too long to be able to stop now...we will see.
Thank you for your thought-provoking posts Bulldog2....I appreciate your interest and any follow up you may haveBF
Posted by Buckeye Fan on January 2, 2010, at 8:01:09
In reply to Re: New Year...New Plan, Advice needed...., posted by Buckeye Fan on January 2, 2010, at 7:48:57
I felt I should add the following...The side-effects of weight gain, itching, brain fog increased blood pressure and irregular heart beat since being on pristiq, have promptd me to take this step.
Although my mood is stable.....the above mentioned side effects are not healthy....and have been getting worse since starting this Med back in August of 2009.BF
Posted by 49er on January 2, 2010, at 8:52:42
In reply to Re: New Year...New Plan, Advice needed...., posted by Buckeye Fan on January 2, 2010, at 8:01:09
> I felt I should add the following...The side-effects of weight gain, itching, brain fog increased blood pressure and irregular heart beat since being on pristiq, have promptd me to take this step.
> Although my mood is stable.....the above mentioned side effects are not healthy....and have been getting worse since starting this Med back in August of 2009.
>
> BFBF,
As an aside, congratulations on your team winning.
Anyway, during your tapering when you have doubts about what you are doing and you will no matter how positive you try to be, I would refer back to this post to remind yourself why you are tapering.
Reminding myself of the horrendous side effects these meds caused me has worked great when I reached points in my tapering where I wondered if it was worth it.
You also might tell yourself that you have no choice but to succeed in light of these side effects. That definitely was a prime motivator for me to to be successful in tapering.
I know what I am about to say is controversial but I don't think you're going to find psych meds that won't cause these problems. Maybe you'll eliminate a few of the side effects but for the most part, they definitely cause issues after long term use.
Of course, I realize some people might decide that is still an acceptable tradeoff and I totally respect that. But I am sensing that for you, it isn't.
You can do this.
49er
Posted by SLS on January 2, 2010, at 11:31:07
In reply to Re: New Year...New Plan, Advice needed...., posted by bulldog2 on January 1, 2010, at 18:00:25
"After more than 12 years of benzo's and anti-depressants, I feel I have lost too much of the real me."
I understand this sentiment, and agree that it can occur. However, I would also take into consideration that 12 years is a long time. People can change quite a bit as the decades pass. People evolve. I don't think you would be the same "you" now as you were then, even were you not to have taken psychotropic medication. Even if you have lost elements of your temperament and personality, it may be that these things return relatively quickly with the passage of time. You are in a different place now than you were then. I know it is very tempting to compare now versus then, but perhaps it is a good time to look forward and allow yourself to discover and nurture a new "you" as you proceed.
In what ways are you different?
- Scott
Posted by SLS on January 2, 2010, at 11:44:14
In reply to Re: New Year...New Plan, Advice needed...., posted by Buckeye Fan on January 2, 2010, at 8:01:09
.
Posted by janejane on January 2, 2010, at 13:17:57
In reply to Re: New Year...New Plan, Advice needed.... » janejane, posted by 49er on December 31, 2009, at 10:42:44
> > 49er... are you med-free now? How do you control your symptoms?>>
>
> I wish:).
>
> I take fish oil capsules and a multivitamin.
>
> Also, I use forms of self CBT.
>
> By the way, I realize not everyone can do this and I don't mean to imply that just because I can, everyone should be able to .
>
> 49erIf you don't mind my asking, what was your diagnosis, and how severe were your symptoms? Did you ever experiment with aminos, St. John's Wort, other supplements? Thanks!
Posted by 49er on January 2, 2010, at 13:57:06
In reply to Re: New Year...New Plan, Advice needed.... » 49er, posted by janejane on January 2, 2010, at 13:17:57
> If you don't mind my asking, what was your diagnosis, and how severe were your symptoms? Did you ever experiment with aminos, St. John's Wort, other supplements? Thanks!
Hi JaneJane,I become depressed do to not knowing how to deal with certain situations. If someone had given me that guidance, I feel I could have avoided psych meds.
I would say I had moderate depression that was greatly worsened by Prozac which then became even worse due to doubling the dose and then being CTd off of it. But eventually, I did stabalize on various antidepressants.
Funny you mention SJW because when I became very frustrated with the side effects of SSRIS, I decided to try it. It worked for about 3 years before I think all my psych meds started pooping out. I didn't realize what was going on at the time.
I tried Travacor for sleep but it did nothing. That is the only thing I have tried as far as taking aminos by themselves. They may be in my current multivitamin but I am not sure.
I have also tried whey protein but it didn't do any anything for me. I have also tried phosphatidylserine which helped. But the problem is my body seems to get used to it pretty quickly and it becomes less effective.
I wish I could find an alternative health practitioner I trusted. But unfortunately, I haven't been able to do so I am kind of on my own as far as experimenting.
Have you tried supplements and if so, what have you found to be useful?
49er
Posted by janejane on January 2, 2010, at 15:22:33
In reply to Re: New Year...New Plan, Advice needed.... » janejane, posted by 49er on January 2, 2010, at 13:57:06
49er-
I suppose my path has been similar to your own, though I appear to be struggling quite a bit more. Was on meds for over 10 years but discontinued last January and have been experimenting with various supplements since then... I've been trying to get up the gumption to start a thread on the alternative board about what I've been doing, but somehow it seems like a monster task so I've been putting it off. Maybe soon, though, since you've expressed an interest.
-Jane
Posted by Phillipa on January 2, 2010, at 20:05:23
In reply to Re: New Year...New Plan, Advice needed.... » 49er, posted by janejane on January 2, 2010, at 15:22:33
I truly would love you to start the thread. Phillipa
Posted by Lou Pilder on January 2, 2010, at 20:31:17
In reply to Re: New Year...New Plan, Advice needed...., posted by Buckeye Fan on January 2, 2010, at 7:48:57
> > This obsession with the real you/me really baffles me. I think this concept is overrated.
>
>
> Hi Bulldog2,..thanks for your response. I disagree with your "overated" statement. There is clearly a difference in my personality now...and that of my pre-Med years. I cannot speak for others,but if you re-read my "blanket effect" term of trying to describe the effects of PMeds, maybe it will shed some light on my real me comments.
> Perhaps I could call it the Old me/ Current me..to better decribe what I am feeling and thinking.
> Even when I take into consideration the years that have passed, and the changes any person would go through over a 12 year period....I am still faced with the FACT that my emotions, thought processes,reactions to life, and internal mental discourse...have been changed by the dampening effect of PMeds.
>
>
>
> "Has it ever occurred to you that the real you may be a mentally ill person with depression. I don't know but that may be the case. People born without legs wear prosthetic ones. Are they changing the real you? The deaf often get implants to help them experience sounds."..
>
>
>
> Yes...I am aware that I have had anxiety issues for as long as I can remember, way before I introduced PMeds into my system.
> Having grown up in an alcoholic family ...I know that my early years were affected by fear and uncertainty.
> However...my experiences of early trauma are MILD compared to those who have suffered through real hard core trauma and actual physical and mental abuse.
> Next, in considering the comparison between physical helps and medical advances for those with physical injuries.....and Medication for those who suffer mental, emotional and phycological damage...I believe there is a difference.
> Hearing Implants are clearly shown to improve the hearing ability of the deaf.
> Prostetics are tremendous inventions to take the place of missing limbs.
> These are clear-cut examples of physical limitations overcome by actual physical substitutes that closelt resemble the missing body parts.
>
> PMeds,...I believe....are a different.
>
> While the same "attempt" is made by medical science, to repair, replace, or emulate something lacking in brain chemicals....we just do not currently have enough knowledge to understand the internal workings of the human brain.
> Especially in the case of AD's...the labeling and definitions FROM THE PHARMACUTICAL COMPANIES AND THE PHYSICIANS clearly use terms like "..this medication is THOUGHT TO WORK on certain brain chemicals.....etc.. and "WHILE THE EXACT ACTION IS UNKNOWN"...etc..
> This indicates that we just do not know for certain how these medication work.
> Let me hasten to add that I am a fellow sufferer and fellow user of these medications...and my comments are in no way intended to make anyone feel bad, or to minimize the help these medication have been and continue to be for many!
>
>
>
> "Are you afraid you are offending God? For me the reality is life is about being as happy as I can be and if I require assistance so be it.
> > Nature is not always kind in her creations. The real you may not be a happy person. Just take whatever path makes you feel good wether it is drug free or on drugs"
>
>
>
> Not quite sure where God was mentioned in my posts...but as I stated, I have trouble focusing and remembering...so maybe I brought it up elswhere. In any event, I would like to say I am a strong believer in God, and am thankful for His Son The Lord Jesus.~
> I understand where you are coming from concerning being happy...and I would agree that medical assitance and advancements have added to the quality of Life for all of us...and for that I am thankful.
>
>
>
> > You appear to feel guilty about being on meds. There is an undercurrent of that in your posts. If it turns out you need meds well that is the real you making the decision. Try being med free if you wish. But you are not required by any edict other than the opinions of others to be on or off of drugs. If you really don't want to go off of drugs than don't feel compelled to go off.
> >
> > You have posted this multiple times and you get the same answers. So tell us what is the real issue.Is there something else other than what you have told us?"
>
>
> I do not believe I am witholding any other information. I am certainly not confident that I can become drug-free. I may have used these Meds too often for too long to be able to stop now...we will see.
> Thank you for your thought-provoking posts Bulldog2....I appreciate your interest and any follow up you may have
>
> BF
>
BF,
You wrote,[...I may have used these meds too often and too long...].
If you have used a Benzodiazepine for 10 years or so, then you could use some special help to discontinue such.
There is a group called benzo.org out of the U.K that is involved with Dr. Heather Ashton in helping people discontinue benzodiazepines.
There was a person in Columbus that helps people with discontinuing benzodiazepines. Her name is Yvonne Day. I suggest that before you discontinue any benzodiazepine that you be aware of what is known concerning such and she could be a good person to contact if you like and I hope she still is active in helping people.
Be advised that there is the potential of a horrific withdrawal syndrome that you could find yourself in if you discontinue a benzodiazepine. You might want to prepare for such by talking with Yvonne and maybe there is a support group in Col.
This could be compounded in your case because of the other psychotropic drugs that you also take.
Be advised that this could take many months to overcome, and that there could be life-threatening consequences from withdraw from benzodiazepines.
Lou
>
>
>
>
>
>
Posted by Phillipa on January 2, 2010, at 21:38:32
In reply to Lou's response- benzowithdrawal » Buckeye Fan, posted by Lou Pilder on January 2, 2010, at 20:31:17
Hi Lou I seem to be able to just lower benzos after 40 years of use with no withdrawal strange no? Love Phillipa
Posted by floatingbridge on January 2, 2010, at 22:06:08
In reply to Re: New Year...New Plan, Advice needed.... » Buckeye Fan, posted by 49er on January 1, 2010, at 9:10:54
BF, I'm very interested in your taper, and I do hope you post updates.
I've heard prozac is easier to taper than pristiq. (I take 50 pristiq.) I switched from lexapro to prozac w/o a hitch. (Now I regret signing on for pristq!)
49er, does the 10% rule hold for prozac as well?
Thanks,
fb
Posted by Lou Pilder on January 3, 2010, at 4:21:06
In reply to Lou's response- benzowithdrawal » Buckeye Fan, posted by Lou Pilder on January 2, 2010, at 20:31:17
> > > This obsession with the real you/me really baffles me. I think this concept is overrated.
> >
> >
> > Hi Bulldog2,..thanks for your response. I disagree with your "overated" statement. There is clearly a difference in my personality now...and that of my pre-Med years. I cannot speak for others,but if you re-read my "blanket effect" term of trying to describe the effects of PMeds, maybe it will shed some light on my real me comments.
> > Perhaps I could call it the Old me/ Current me..to better decribe what I am feeling and thinking.
> > Even when I take into consideration the years that have passed, and the changes any person would go through over a 12 year period....I am still faced with the FACT that my emotions, thought processes,reactions to life, and internal mental discourse...have been changed by the dampening effect of PMeds.
> >
> >
> >
> > "Has it ever occurred to you that the real you may be a mentally ill person with depression. I don't know but that may be the case. People born without legs wear prosthetic ones. Are they changing the real you? The deaf often get implants to help them experience sounds."..
> >
> >
> >
> > Yes...I am aware that I have had anxiety issues for as long as I can remember, way before I introduced PMeds into my system.
> > Having grown up in an alcoholic family ...I know that my early years were affected by fear and uncertainty.
> > However...my experiences of early trauma are MILD compared to those who have suffered through real hard core trauma and actual physical and mental abuse.
> > Next, in considering the comparison between physical helps and medical advances for those with physical injuries.....and Medication for those who suffer mental, emotional and phycological damage...I believe there is a difference.
> > Hearing Implants are clearly shown to improve the hearing ability of the deaf.
> > Prostetics are tremendous inventions to take the place of missing limbs.
> > These are clear-cut examples of physical limitations overcome by actual physical substitutes that closelt resemble the missing body parts.
> >
> > PMeds,...I believe....are a different.
> >
> > While the same "attempt" is made by medical science, to repair, replace, or emulate something lacking in brain chemicals....we just do not currently have enough knowledge to understand the internal workings of the human brain.
> > Especially in the case of AD's...the labeling and definitions FROM THE PHARMACUTICAL COMPANIES AND THE PHYSICIANS clearly use terms like "..this medication is THOUGHT TO WORK on certain brain chemicals.....etc.. and "WHILE THE EXACT ACTION IS UNKNOWN"...etc..
> > This indicates that we just do not know for certain how these medication work.
> > Let me hasten to add that I am a fellow sufferer and fellow user of these medications...and my comments are in no way intended to make anyone feel bad, or to minimize the help these medication have been and continue to be for many!
> >
> >
> >
> > "Are you afraid you are offending God? For me the reality is life is about being as happy as I can be and if I require assistance so be it.
> > > Nature is not always kind in her creations. The real you may not be a happy person. Just take whatever path makes you feel good wether it is drug free or on drugs"
> >
> >
> >
> > Not quite sure where God was mentioned in my posts...but as I stated, I have trouble focusing and remembering...so maybe I brought it up elswhere. In any event, I would like to say I am a strong believer in God, and am thankful for His Son The Lord Jesus.~
> > I understand where you are coming from concerning being happy...and I would agree that medical assitance and advancements have added to the quality of Life for all of us...and for that I am thankful.
> >
> >
> >
> > > You appear to feel guilty about being on meds. There is an undercurrent of that in your posts. If it turns out you need meds well that is the real you making the decision. Try being med free if you wish. But you are not required by any edict other than the opinions of others to be on or off of drugs. If you really don't want to go off of drugs than don't feel compelled to go off.
> > >
> > > You have posted this multiple times and you get the same answers. So tell us what is the real issue.Is there something else other than what you have told us?"
> >
> >
> > I do not believe I am witholding any other information. I am certainly not confident that I can become drug-free. I may have used these Meds too often for too long to be able to stop now...we will see.
> > Thank you for your thought-provoking posts Bulldog2....I appreciate your interest and any follow up you may have
> >
> > BF
> >
> BF,
> You wrote,[...I may have used these meds too often and too long...].
> If you have used a Benzodiazepine for 10 years or so, then you could use some special help to discontinue such.
> There is a group called benzo.org out of the U.K that is involved with Dr. Heather Ashton in helping people discontinue benzodiazepines.
> There was a person in Columbus that helps people with discontinuing benzodiazepines. Her name is Yvonne Day. I suggest that before you discontinue any benzodiazepine that you be aware of what is known concerning such and she could be a good person to contact if you like and I hope she still is active in helping people.
> Be advised that there is the potential of a horrific withdrawal syndrome that you could find yourself in if you discontinue a benzodiazepine. You might want to prepare for such by talking with Yvonne and maybe there is a support group in Col.
> This could be compounded in your case because of the other psychotropic drugs that you also take.
> Be advised that this could take many months to overcome, and that there could be life-threatening consequences from withdraw from benzodiazepines.
> Lou
>
> > BF,
Here is a link that has much infomation that could help you with understanding the aspects of withdrawal from benzodiazepines.
Lou
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzodiazepine_withdrawal_syndrome
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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