![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Meltingpot on November 19, 2009, at 16:34:30
I know that I am not severly depressed in the sense that I am not suffering from psychomotor retardation or completely slowed down by my depression and yet I still feel suicidal a lot of the time.
When I was mildly depressed and untreated between the age of 17 and 24 I never felt suicidal it is only when all of the symptoms came back at the age of 35 that I started to feel really suicidal. I'm not sure if I just had more hope between 17 and 24 and if it's just that now I feel enough is enough!
Can somebody who has mild depression feel suicidal and somebody with severe depression not feel suicidal?
I just don't really know what I suffer from anymore. If I'm depressed or just suffer from a complete lack of interest in life or in living.
I do know though that when I was on medication and feeling well I enjoyed life and felt interested in a lot of things.
I tried joining a dating internet agency but where it asks about interests I felt like putting "none", I had to make somethings up. All I'm interested in is finding something to make me interested again. It sounds so sad.
Denise
Posted by Phillipa on November 19, 2009, at 16:55:52
In reply to Why do I feel suicidal?, posted by Meltingpot on November 19, 2009, at 16:34:30
Denise my depression is not severe and often think of suicide but it's based on age and what is left for me? As for interests mine were the profession I had and doing fun things not able to now do. Due to money, physical health. So I guess you can feel suicidal. Sometimes I have a good thing happen and feel motivated and interested in things again and then wham something knocks me down another problem. For me I think it's psychological? Maybe some others will have some better answers. Love Phillipa
Posted by SLS on November 19, 2009, at 17:09:20
In reply to Why do I feel suicidal?, posted by Meltingpot on November 19, 2009, at 16:34:30
> Can somebody who has mild depression feel suicidal and somebody with severe depression not feel suicidal?
Sure. People with agitated depression can be suicidal. Even people in mixed states who are activated can be suicidal. Mania is no absolute protection against suicide.
At my baseline unmedicated depressed state, I am not plagued by thoughts of suicide. I am not sure of all the reasons why. However, there have been drugs that have made me feel crushed by suicidal thoughts. This usually is accompanied by anxiety. I believe that there is a neurochemical substrate for suicidality that is not necessarily concordant with cognitive slowing or psychomotor retardation.
If you haven't investigated it yet, perhaps psychotherapy can help you address the content of your suicidal thoughts and enable you to be better able to deal with them when they arise.
> I just don't really know what I suffer from anymore. If I'm depressed or just suffer from a complete lack of interest in life or in living.
Could be both.
> I do know though that when I was on medication and feeling well I enjoyed life and felt interested in a lot of things.Once upon a time...
I remember it well.
> All I'm interested in is finding something to make me interested again.
That's only logical.
Still, you might find better ways to live your life with your current psychobiological state. Psychotherapy might help you make the most of what you have to work with while working towards the return of your mental health. The key to having psychotherapy be productive in this role is if the therapists fully understands the biological nature of your depressive disorder. It would be helpful if the therapist also acts as a life-coach.
- Scott
Posted by Katgirl on November 21, 2009, at 9:54:50
In reply to Re: Why do I feel suicidal? » Meltingpot, posted by SLS on November 19, 2009, at 17:09:20
I know when I was "horrifically" suicidal, meaning that is all I could think about every second of the day, it was very biochemical. rTMS stopped that. Now, I can get what I call situationally suicidal. Like, "Well what is the point with all this". But this is definitely a "thought" thing. In other words now if I get to a bad space in my head about it, I can let go of it (sometimes not as quickly as I would like, but I can.) I guess what I'm saying is that when I was biochemically suicidal, the only thing that was going to help that was biochemical intervention (in my case rTMS since unfortunately, the medications/withdrawals were all making me suicidal!!) However, now when I go into a pit, I can get myself back out of it. I can use some of the "tools" I've learned etc. I don't know if this makes any sense or is at all helpful. My thoughts and prayers are still with you!!
Posted by floatingbridge on November 21, 2009, at 23:23:51
In reply to Why do I feel suicidal?, posted by Meltingpot on November 19, 2009, at 16:34:30
Hi Meltingpot,
I'm so sorry that you are feeling suicidal--you sound very depressed to me, maybe not just full-blown (meaning bed-ridden or overly agitated).
I think Scott's advice seems very sound--having or finding the right therapy to help examine your suicidal thoughts.
I sense mine are both biochemical and 'habitual', meaning once they start, they run a rut into my brain--the old 'broken record' (does that date me, or what?). Therapy (and meds) help me.
Hang in there Meltingpot and keep us in the loop!
fb
Posted by Meltingpot on November 23, 2009, at 15:46:17
In reply to Re: Why do I feel suicidal? » Meltingpot, posted by Phillipa on November 19, 2009, at 16:55:52
Hi Phillipa,
Thanks for responding. I just wonder sometimes why ideas of not being here any more seem to make me feel better than anything else.
I just don't know why I'm like this and how to stop being like this. I get sick of feeling the same way year in year out, things change around me and yet nothing changes at all.
If somebody told me I only had a few months to live I think it would be a huge relief although the dying process would obviously scare me.
Denise
Posted by Meltingpot on November 23, 2009, at 15:56:58
In reply to Re: Why do I feel suicidal? » Meltingpot, posted by SLS on November 19, 2009, at 17:09:20
Scott,
Thanks for answering my question, of course nobody can really answer that question but me. I think I just wonder if I'm not as good as coping with feeling depressed as other people. I did see a very good therapist who was lovely but it didn't really help me in the long run but she was supportive. Unfortunately I had to wait 2 years to see her on the wonderful UK NHS and then once you've had a course that's it, you don't get a second chance.
The reason I often feel suicidal is that it is a source of comfort to me especially when I'm at my lowest. The idea that I might just cease to be conscious really seems appealing at times as I know it does to other people.
However, I'm never in a state where I lose all sense of reason and don't know what I'm doing. Also I'm not impulsive by nature so I tend to think of all of the rammifications of taking an overdose, what if I don't do it properly, what if I just end up brain damaged and even worst, still depressed.
Having said that all I really want is to feel better and enjoy life again and taking an overdose isnt' really congusive to that. Sometimes I think though that it just istn't going to happen so then we get back to suicide again.
Ok, well thanks for taking the trouble to respond anyway.
Denise
Posted by Meltingpot on November 23, 2009, at 15:58:52
In reply to Re: Why do I feel suicidal?, posted by Katgirl on November 21, 2009, at 9:54:50
Hi,
It's great that rTMS helped you. Unfortunately, it didn't help me at all.
Denise
Posted by Meltingpot on November 23, 2009, at 16:07:36
In reply to Re: Why do I feel suicidal? » Meltingpot, posted by floatingbridge on November 21, 2009, at 23:23:51
Hi FB,
Thanks for the advice. I was seeing a therapist but that finished last year. The NHS only give you a course of therapy and then that's your lot. I'm reluctant to pay out money (privately) for something that didn't really help me long term.
I am off all medication (apart from the Zyprexa), I'm stopping it for three months in the hope that it will work again on restarting it (but I don't hold out a lot of hope). The psychiatrist (who I am seeing privately) is going along with this, well she can't really do much else apart from go along with it. I have been worst since coming off medication so I know that I just have to get through the end of the year and then I can start back on antidepressants (although that is not going to be a bundle of fun either, with all of the start up anxiety I get)
I really want to try everything I can for this depression/anxiety/whatever it is. I want to try a full course of ECT simply because I haven't tried it but all of the psychiatrists I've seen wouldn't recommend it for me. I'm not sure what my options are now. I keep wondering about Deep Brain Stimulation (I'm fixated on that at the moment) but there is no way I'd ever get on a trial for it. Besides, I'd need some encouragement in order to do it. Right now I don't have anyone encouraging me.
That's what I need at the moment, hope and encouragement.
Denise
Posted by SLS on November 23, 2009, at 17:25:45
In reply to Re: Why do I feel suicidal? To Floatingbridge, posted by Meltingpot on November 23, 2009, at 16:07:36
Encouragement? Hope?
I have been on some 60 psychotropic drugs, including 25-30 antidepressants. Throughout most of my history, I could barely feed myself because the psychomotor retardation was so pronounced. I would need to pause when bringing the fork to my mouth. I couldn't make it all in one movement. That's pretty heavy-duty.
Encouragement? Hope?
After all of that, I am now responding to my treatment regime comprised of five drugs. I persevered because I believed that there were just too many drugs and drug combinations not to find a successful treatment. Since I had once reached remission, I could not be certain that I would not reach it again.
- Scott
Posted by floatingbridge on November 23, 2009, at 17:39:47
In reply to Re: Why do I feel suicidal? To Floatingbridge, posted by Meltingpot on November 23, 2009, at 16:07:36
> Hi FB,
>
> Thanks for the advice. I was seeing a therapist but that finished last year. The NHS only give you a course of therapy and then that's your lot. I'm reluctant to pay out money (privately) for something that didn't really help me long term.For about two years, I saw a therapist who was supportive, kind, and I really liked her. We got no where, really. Most therapy has been unhelpful. (CBT helped, along w/ a dose of DBT.) However, my new therapist is different, and 'things' are moving along fast. Will I be cured? I doubt that's even a viable question for me--but I function better, and my pain (depression and anxiety) have gone down--.
However, in reference to a discussion on another thread, I clearly have psychological components to my depression. I think, though, CBT and DBT based therapies can be of help to many, despite cause of depression or anxiety.
>
> I am off all medication (apart from the Zyprexa), I'm stopping it for three months in the hope that it will work again on restarting it (but I don't hold out a lot of hope). The psychiatrist (who I am seeing privately) is going along with this, well she can't really do much else apart from go along with it. I have been worst since coming off medication so I know that I just have to get through the end of the year and then I can start back on antidepressants (although that is not going to be a bundle of fun either, with all of the start up anxiety I get)This sounds grueling--how difficult for you--I'm sorry.
>
> I really want to try everything I can for this depression/anxiety/whatever it is. I want to try a full course of ECT simply because I haven't tried it but all of the psychiatrists I've seen wouldn't recommend it for me.I'm curious as to their objections. Also, I'm sorry rTMS failed you.
>I'm not sure what my options are now. I keep wondering about Deep Brain Stimulation (I'm fixated on that at the moment) but there is no way I'd ever get on a trial for it. Besides, I'd need some encouragement in order to do it. Right now I don't have anyone encouraging me.
>
> That's what I need at the moment, hope and encouragement.
>Your pdoc does not support your idea on deep brain stimulation?
I feel that if you have in memory a good baseline, (that you remember enjoying things), you will find a way. Right now, you are probably at a nadir, being off all meds.
(Warning: next paragraph contains advice.) I'm wondering if you have tried any sort of group therapy or support therapy. The facilitator would be key. I have been in groups that were unendurable. Yet the right group helped me significantly. There is nothing worse, I feel, than being even further isolated by an illness that many people cannot comprehend. The few groups that worked did so by giving me hope and encouragement and camaraderie.
hugs,
fb
Posted by Meltingpot on November 24, 2009, at 5:27:10
In reply to Re: Why do I feel suicidal? To Floatingbridge » Meltingpot, posted by floatingbridge on November 23, 2009, at 17:39:47
Hi FB,
Thanks for your post, in what way are you finding your new therapist helpful? How is she different to the one that you really liked but who ultimately didn't help you.
I have asked about group therapy but they don't do it in my area on the NHS. I might do some further investigation though.
As to why they won't give me ECT I think it's because I'm not classed as having a major depressive episode. My depression is definately chronic, infact sometimes I wonder if this is just who I am (and that really does scare me). I don't cry uncontrollably or anything like that I just feel incredibly anxious, irritable, weak, despondent and apathetic.
I'm taking the Zyprexa every 7 days just to stop myself from really going down but if I don't take it then I just lose the will to live. It seems that when I'm unmedicated no matter what I try to do, exercise, speak to friends, do something constructive etc etc, nothing makes a scrap of difference and it just feels hopeless.
Thanks so much for your comments.
Denise
Posted by floatingbridge on November 24, 2009, at 11:21:02
In reply to Re: Why do I feel suicidal? To Floatingbridge, posted by Meltingpot on November 24, 2009, at 5:27:10
Denise,
You sound like you are in allot of pain--I'm really sorry. And it sound like maybe you aren't getting the support you need from NHS and your doc. Do you think they understand how much you are suffering?
Umm. My therapist of the past 1.5 years doesn't seem afraid or hesitate to ask me difficult questions, incisive yet kind. He's older than me (70's) maybe, and for a variety of reasons, I trust him. (He could see beyond my 'personality', or how I 'present', and see the pain I was in.) He's provided a useful diagnosis (he is also my pdoc) that has begun to help me see more deeply into my illness (and I am a good candidate for therapy). He isn't afraid to change his mind when observation calls for it. My other therapist (a woman) was kind and compassionate, but sometimes would just let me cry the way a good friend might. Ultimately, without insightful input and information, I found myself not progressing, and in some ways, deteriorating. However, even 'good' therapy does not work well for me unless I am well-medicated.
>My depression is definitely chronic, in fact sometimes I wonder if this is just who I am (and that really does scare me).
My current doc is really the first one who addressed this same belief in me head-on. Sadly, it had never really occurred to me before. It is a scary thought, and anxiety provoking--but when one is depressed for so long...well, I understand. I really do. It isn't who you are. Remind yourself daily, even if you feel doubtful. Get others to remind you that you are more than your illness. I know right now you are largely unmedicated. What will you try next? You can feel better--it's really possible.
At times, I have thought about 12 step meetings. I know many folks in the program deal with mood disorders. Also, in the states, there is NAMI, and they run support groups. Airing out thoughts and fears really helps me maintain.
hugs and peace,
fb
> Hi FB,
>
> Thanks for your post, in what way are you finding your new therapist helpful? How is she different to the one that you really liked but who ultimately didn't help you.
>
> I have asked about group therapy but they don't do it in my area on the NHS. I might do some further investigation though.
>
> As to why they won't give me ECT I think it's because I'm not classed as having a major depressive episode. My depression is definately chronic, infact sometimes I wonder if this is just who I am (and that really does scare me). I don't cry uncontrollably or anything like that I just feel incredibly anxious, irritable, weak, despondent and apathetic.
>
> I'm taking the Zyprexa every 7 days just to stop myself from really going down but if I don't take it then I just lose the will to live. It seems that when I'm unmedicated no matter what I try to do, exercise, speak to friends, do something constructive etc etc, nothing makes a scrap of difference and it just feels hopeless.
>
> Thanks so much for your comments.
>
>
> Denise
Posted by stargazer2 on November 25, 2009, at 21:57:45
In reply to Why do I feel suicidal?, posted by Meltingpot on November 19, 2009, at 16:34:30
Hi MP,
I have had suicidal ideation, i.e. thoughts of suicide often, and at times they have haunted every waking hour.
I have only had a real plan once, or perhaps twice. THe first time was very scarey, as I was close to doing something to eliminate the pain.
I just considered them part of my depression but never got used to them. Often they were thoughts of questioning what was my purpose in life, other times thoughts of what would be the best, least painful way to kill myself.
But for some reason, in the few months, the thoughts have gone away. I just saw my doc yesterday and told him that I wondered if it had something to do with reaching menopause. THis is the first time in 30 years, my depression does not seem to be talking to me me everyday, it has finally shut up or taken a vacation someplace else.
As depressed and suicidal as I have been, I never took it to the next level. I often just ignored the thoughts and didn't even tell anyone most of the time, just when I was really bad, and became non functional. But I have functioned the majority of my life with ongoing depression and at times believed that was how it would always be.
I think this is my longest stretch of stability, or the longest that I can remember. I used to write down my thoughts daily because I wanted to keep track of how bad I was and go back to read what different meds were doing, since it is almost impossible to remember one day from the next, even if every day is miserable. There were some that were more miserable, than others, so I kept track of my moods, responses to meds, evry symptom I had.
If you are so consumed by the thoughts and if you think you may act on them, that is the time to call your doctor. I was given some medication once and it turned things right around. I think it might have beeen Zyprexa or Seroquel, but it worked.
For many people with depression, having suicidal thoughts is a guage of how well your treatment is working. The thoughts should diminish with effective treatment but may never go away completely. If you can live with it, you have to in order to keep trying and praying for relief.
It is certainly a nice change to not have these thoughts right now. They could always return, but that is something I will always have to deal with. I almost forgot what that feels like anymore but I can sympathize with you. Depression is a nasty condition and it takes a lot of strength to keep fighting it. I understand why some people give up, but I was too afraid to take that route. IT is a permanent one.
Good luck in your struggle.
Stargazer
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.