![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 28. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by meltingpot on November 11, 2009, at 11:43:58
Hi,
As I've probably mentioned before in 2005 my Seroxat seemed to lose it's affect and since then I've been back and forth to various psychiatrists and have tried adding other agents and switching to other meds to no avail. Having said that I've always been better on medication than off it. Last December I started to feel awful even on Lexapro, I was wretching, pacing my room in the morning, feeling really anxious and suicidal.
At that point, incidently, I was referred to a new NHS psychiatrist because the previous ones last year had all been different locums. I was feeling fairly hopeful, afterall I was seeing a permanent psychiatrist who I would hopefully be able to build up a good and collaborative relationship with.
I went to see him and told him how bad I was feeling, he said without any emotion or empathy "he was sorry to hear that" to which I replied "your being sorry doesn't really help me very much". He then went on to say that he wouldn't be trying any new medications and that perhaps I should try a more hollistic approach I asked him what he suggested and he said mindfulness. I said that I'd already been seen (for several months) by a therapist and we had tried "mindfulness" and I didn't find it in the slightest bit helpful. So at the end of the session I was left with no recommendations, no advice, just him saying that he would have a word with my previous therapist to see if it would be worthwhile my having more therapy. To be honest that was the start of a really awful relationship, I've never felt such hatred for a psychiatrist as I have him. (with the exception of one other one). This guy was like a robot when it came to treating me.
After months, he got back to me he told me that he had spoken to my therapist and she didn't think having any more therapy would help me so he said that he was sending me for a second opinion which admittedly was good of him.
I got my appointment for a second opinion (after about another three months, the Psychiatrist was a psychiatrist who specialised in both medication and therapy, a Dr Albeniz. After telling him all about myself and my feelings he started to move the conversation towards (guess what) mindfulness. He compared my situation to that of two men who had both lost their legs and where one who accepted his condition and where the other one would not accept his condition and wanted his doctors to grow him new legs. I have to say tht at this point I was feeling exasperated. I could see his point of view but to be perfectly honest if I was in a wheelchair now, it wouldn't be the fact that I couldn't walk that I would be complaining about, it would be the depression and thee anxiety I feel. After our lengthy discussion he asked me if I felt any better after our conversation to which I replied "no". His manner towards me then went from being friendly and sympathetic to hostile.
Anyway I again left his appointment feeling frustrated. After this appointment I heard nothing further from anyone so I complained and was then sent an appointment to see the first psychiatrist who had sent me for a second opinion. I asked him what he was going to recommend and he just simply said "nothing".
Fortunately, I am now seeing a private psychiatrist and I do have somebody I can turn to for help. I have told her that I am coming off meds (except for Zyprexa) for 6 months in the hope that the Seroxat will work again. It has now been two months and every day I feel completely wretched, lack energy, listless, lifeless, nauseas and very apathetic. If I thought that I would feel like this for the rest of my days then it would be unbearable. I will not be able to last for six months and can only keep this up for 3 months. I'm also not feeling very optimistic about Seroxat ever working again.
I have now put in a formal complaint to the NHS to which they have responded and to which I am complaining again.
I guess I can sort of see there point of view, after all they have been trying since 2005 and my question is, is it right for me to expect the NHS Mental Health Services to carry on trying to get me better or should I just take the meds that no longer work as they used to and settle for a generally unhappy existence?
With all their talk of being "mindful" I feel as though they are telling me that I should just go away and just concentrate on accepting the fact that I feel completely crap (when not on medication) and not as good as I'd like to feel when on it.
Denise
Posted by Phillipa on November 11, 2009, at 12:01:55
In reply to At what point should they give up trying???, posted by meltingpot on November 11, 2009, at 11:43:58
Hi Denise. Your're seeing the private psychiatrist right? No advise from him/her? No new meds? In reading your threads the waits between appointments sound really hard. Are you able to still work? I don't know what to say about the NHS not being from there. Sounds like you still have a lot of fight in you. And could be the serozat no longer works. Do you have any thoughts for you? Love Phillipa
Posted by SLS on November 11, 2009, at 12:38:47
In reply to At what point should they give up trying???, posted by meltingpot on November 11, 2009, at 11:43:58
Do you have a choice as to when they should give up trying?
I don't have an answer for them, but for you, I refer you to Sir Winston Churchill's plea to never, never, never give up.
Is this fair to the sufferer to say such a thing?
I do not feel that it is a characterological weakness to give up.
What I find helpful is to give myself permission to give up, understanding that this is a normal human reaction to the frustration and despair I often feel. It seems that I rarely take advantage of this permit. However, when I do, it usually happens that I don't feel beaten and hopeless for very long. The state of mind passes.
I think you are the type of person to persevere.
Mindfulness? It's not such a bad thing. It won't reduce the severity of your depression, but it can help you interact with yourself in ways that allow you to grow emotionally and intellectually. It is a way to facilitate self-improvement. Ultimately, it enhances the way you interact with and experience the world around you. How can this be bad? So, I think the bottom line is that mindfulness can help you live your life within the limits that depression imposes on you.
I think you must begin to think in terms of drug combinations. When you think it is time to retry paroxetine, I think you should try to get a doctor to prescribe either bupropion or nortriptyline along with it and start them simultaneously. If you respond, but reach a plateau after a few months, then you can try adding lamotrigine or lithium.
- Scott
Posted by Maxime on November 11, 2009, at 13:11:22
In reply to At what point should they give up trying???, posted by meltingpot on November 11, 2009, at 11:43:58
I've never heard of pdocs acting that way. How awful for you! There are so many meds and combos to try. There is bound to one out there for you.
Don't give up. And find a pdoc who will give you meds.
Posted by linkadge on November 11, 2009, at 15:16:14
In reply to Re: At what point should they give up trying??? » meltingpot, posted by Maxime on November 11, 2009, at 13:11:22
I think it is wrong for them to respond to you the way they did.
There probably are med combiantions they haven't tried that you could try. It is wrong for them to waste your time and money with the response that you should just accept your condition. If they want you do accept your condition they should not offer you treatment and/or hope.
I don't mind realism, in the sense that they should try other combintation with the knowledge that chances for remission are reduced the more combinations that are tried.
It also depends on how serious your condition is. If you are feeling that bad it might be worth checking into a hospital where you can get another optinion and perhaps more prompt / agressive treatment.
Linkadge
Posted by bleauberry on November 11, 2009, at 17:17:11
In reply to At what point should they give up trying???, posted by meltingpot on November 11, 2009, at 11:43:58
Doctors in a national health care system don't have the freedom, flexibility, or the creative experience that comes from that, to treat patients properly. I am sure they get lucky with 30%...lexapro or whatever the government rules approve of. But the others, well, that's what happens in that kind of political environment. Their hands are tied. They are overburdened. In your post you demonstrated the long waiting times involved as well. All of those are working against you.
The private psychiatrist you saw should probably consider doing something else for a career. It would appear at first glance that he rather sucks at what he does. I am sorry.
But should you, I, or any of us ever give up? No!
When they suggested a more holistic approach, I strongly support that, either by itself or in combination with meds. But where I think they went wrong was assuming holistic meant only talk therapy. That is not holistic.
Holistic is plants, herbs, special food choices, supplements, accupuncture, exercise, swimming, saunas, meditation and/or prayer.
Meds can work. But without a comprehensive plan involving several of the above, results can be incomplete, sporadic, and problematic. In the great majority of people, I feel disease is much too complex for any single molecule to fix.
When I personally think of holistic, I primarily think of plants (herbs). I don't know if you believe God of the bible or not. But if you do, He says the animals are for us to eat and the plants are for medicine. If someone does believe in Him, but don't believe plants have the healing needed, then they basically are calling Him a liar.
Set that aside for anyone who doesn't believe. There are literally hundreds of clinical studies from around the planet on at least 50 herbs demonstrating their equal or greater efficacy than medicines, their much lower side effects, extremely low toxicity, and broad spectrum health benefits outside of their targeted purpose.
It is not uncommon that we have to become our own advocates in our own knowledge of healing. That's because nobody else is going to do it for us!
I'm sure you are aware of the more common supplements used to battle depression. Rhodiola Rosea, SJW, Tyrosine, DLPA, 5htp, Siberian Ginseng, and others. It usually requires a combination of several of them...again, the comprehensive thing. Ok, now forget those studies. Instead just look at that anecdotal evidence of their actual realtime performance over hundreds of years in serious diseases. Literally millions of people find benefit or cure in plants, either alone or in combo with meds, from some very serious diseases. And in ways that meds just cannot duplicate.
As I see it, nearly all patients with depression...especially not respsonding well to common meds...have inflammation and toxicity as major co-factors or causes, that prevent healing from happening no matter what med. So supplemental strategies must be employed to deal with those. If there is unknown unsuspected infection going on, those same strategies would suppress the negative effects of them.
Give up? No way. Give up on those particular psychiatrists? Definitely.
I would say at this point you need to take the steering wheel away from those doctors. Find a plain jane doctor somewhere who sees a lot. Even better, one that knows something about integrative or alternative medicine.
Sometimes the specialists are the absolute worst ones for us to see. Especially in national systems.
No matter what, to get better will require becoming your own advocate, because no one else is going to do it for you. That's not a bad thing. It is usually the turning point in someone's life that begins the journey of improvement.
Many of the miracle stories involve patients becoming their own experts because the doctors said there was nothing else they could do.
Posted by johnj1 on November 11, 2009, at 19:29:20
In reply to At what point should they give up trying???, posted by meltingpot on November 11, 2009, at 11:43:58
Please do not ever give up. Remember the way you feel right now is not how you will feel for the rest of your life or even tomorrow or the next hour. That always gives me hope.
Sometimes when I "give up" in the sense I just stop thinking so much I get a reprieve from my feelings. When I just try to live and appreciate the small things like a delicious meal, another person's laugh, it makes me feel better. As for myself, I won't be what I dreamed of once upon a time but that is ok. Things are dynamic and changing everyday and evey minute. I hope you find some peace and please work through it and at times take a break from it but have hope.
Peace and Prayers
johnj
Posted by delna on November 12, 2009, at 2:58:26
In reply to At what point should they give up trying???, posted by meltingpot on November 11, 2009, at 11:43:58
Hi Denise,
I'm sorry you are going through this bad experience.
I agree with bleauberry about the NHS being overburdened etc. I have had my fair share of experience with the NHS- for all illnesss both physical and psych.
I have found that in the UK, pdocs are not aggressive enough when it comes to treating mental illnesses. They are happy to get a mere 'response' from treatment but don't aim for remission and to get you fully functional. They let you 'linger' on.... This is not acceptable in my view and you should not just "take the meds that no longer work as they used to and settle for a generally unhappy existence"
Why should you?? Don't give up because the system is failing you. I know you must be extremely frustrated and feel helpless but there is hope....You say you have a private pdoc and that can make a world of difference (one reason is that they are not trying to give you the cheapest drug). But of course you need a really good pdoc. Does your private pdoc have anything to add? Is she fine with you coming off your meds (except Zyprexia)?
If she's too wishy-washy, you need to find someone better. Since you are going private can I assume you have insurance? If so, seeing a private pdoc in London may be a good option. If you are feeling suicidal you can even admit yourself into a psychiatric hospital in London like Charter Nightingale. Your insurance should cover that (depending on what you have). I have a really good pdoc in London- she got me out of a severe episode of psychotic depression. I can give you her ref if you want. But there are many others too.
But please don't give up because the NHS is so frustrating.
You just need a good pdoc and being in the UK you can get one. It would help if you could travel and also if you have full insurance.
Keep us updated...
Take care
Love
D
Posted by bulldog2 on November 12, 2009, at 10:02:07
In reply to At what point should they give up trying???, posted by meltingpot on November 11, 2009, at 11:43:58
> Hi,
>
> As I've probably mentioned before in 2005 my Seroxat seemed to lose it's affect and since then I've been back and forth to various psychiatrists and have tried adding other agents and switching to other meds to no avail. Having said that I've always been better on medication than off it. Last December I started to feel awful even on Lexapro, I was wretching, pacing my room in the morning, feeling really anxious and suicidal.
>
> At that point, incidently, I was referred to a new NHS psychiatrist because the previous ones last year had all been different locums. I was feeling fairly hopeful, afterall I was seeing a permanent psychiatrist who I would hopefully be able to build up a good and collaborative relationship with.
>
> I went to see him and told him how bad I was feeling, he said without any emotion or empathy "he was sorry to hear that" to which I replied "your being sorry doesn't really help me very much". He then went on to say that he wouldn't be trying any new medications and that perhaps I should try a more hollistic approach I asked him what he suggested and he said mindfulness. I said that I'd already been seen (for several months) by a therapist and we had tried "mindfulness" and I didn't find it in the slightest bit helpful. So at the end of the session I was left with no recommendations, no advice, just him saying that he would have a word with my previous therapist to see if it would be worthwhile my having more therapy. To be honest that was the start of a really awful relationship, I've never felt such hatred for a psychiatrist as I have him. (with the exception of one other one). This guy was like a robot when it came to treating me.
>
> After months, he got back to me he told me that he had spoken to my therapist and she didn't think having any more therapy would help me so he said that he was sending me for a second opinion which admittedly was good of him.
>
> I got my appointment for a second opinion (after about another three months, the Psychiatrist was a psychiatrist who specialised in both medication and therapy, a Dr Albeniz. After telling him all about myself and my feelings he started to move the conversation towards (guess what) mindfulness. He compared my situation to that of two men who had both lost their legs and where one who accepted his condition and where the other one would not accept his condition and wanted his doctors to grow him new legs. I have to say tht at this point I was feeling exasperated. I could see his point of view but to be perfectly honest if I was in a wheelchair now, it wouldn't be the fact that I couldn't walk that I would be complaining about, it would be the depression and thee anxiety I feel. After our lengthy discussion he asked me if I felt any better after our conversation to which I replied "no". His manner towards me then went from being friendly and sympathetic to hostile.
>
> Anyway I again left his appointment feeling frustrated. After this appointment I heard nothing further from anyone so I complained and was then sent an appointment to see the first psychiatrist who had sent me for a second opinion. I asked him what he was going to recommend and he just simply said "nothing".
>
> Fortunately, I am now seeing a private psychiatrist and I do have somebody I can turn to for help. I have told her that I am coming off meds (except for Zyprexa) for 6 months in the hope that the Seroxat will work again. It has now been two months and every day I feel completely wretched, lack energy, listless, lifeless, nauseas and very apathetic. If I thought that I would feel like this for the rest of my days then it would be unbearable. I will not be able to last for six months and can only keep this up for 3 months. I'm also not feeling very optimistic about Seroxat ever working again.
>
> I have now put in a formal complaint to the NHS to which they have responded and to which I am complaining again.
>
> I guess I can sort of see there point of view, after all they have been trying since 2005 and my question is, is it right for me to expect the NHS Mental Health Services to carry on trying to get me better or should I just take the meds that no longer work as they used to and settle for a generally unhappy existence?
>
> With all their talk of being "mindful" I feel as though they are telling me that I should just go away and just concentrate on accepting the fact that I feel completely crap (when not on medication) and not as good as I'd like to feel when on it.
>
>
> Denise
>
>My personal opinion is that p-docs are some of the laziest and least motivated people in medicine. I've had p-docs turn me down as a patient because I'm to complicated. I guess that really makes me angry. You would think a good doctor would enjoy a challenge.
I try to practice mindfulness. It can help reduce the depression by learning a sense of acceptance. However that does not mean that I give up in my quest for a happier life.I can still strive to look for tools to help me attain remission.
Again it seems like psychiatry gets the bottom of the barrel. Often troubled themselves I see that look of boredom as if they can't wait for the session to end.
These people do take an oath. Hippocrates. Some of them should be ashamed of their conduct as doctors.
Posted by Meltingpot on November 12, 2009, at 13:32:35
In reply to Re: At what point should they give up trying??? » meltingpot, posted by Phillipa on November 11, 2009, at 12:01:55
Hi Phillipa,
This private psychiatrist is the only person who has given me any encouragement and hope, hope being the key word. She actually said that there are a lot more medications and combos that I still haven't tried which made me feel better. However, I'm not really sure she knows just how many meds I have already tried.
I was just getting to the stage, a couple of months ago, where I was thinking that nothing was working and perhaps if I came off everything and started from scratch three months later then perhaps Seroxat would work again.
I know it's a long shot and I'm not sure there's any rationale behind it (neither did she think there was any rationale behind it) but it's worth trying. She just seems to support me in what I want to do which is what I want. Mindyou I'm paying her £150 to do it :-)
As far as work goes, I'm still able to do temp work and I know I still do a good job but to be honest it feels a lot harder since coming off medication. I feel like not working until I go back on meds again but what would be the point in that, I'd just hang around the house feeling like crap instead of being at work. I have hardly any energy, I feel like I'm dragging myself around, I feel nauseas in the morning, my sleep is disturbed by dreams and then I go to bed just feeling tired and washed out as well.
Anyway, I won't carry on moaning, I know life's really hard for you with your awful anxiety and hormone problems.
Thanks for asking though.
Denise
Posted by Meltingpot on November 12, 2009, at 13:45:37
In reply to Re: At what point should they give up trying??? » meltingpot, posted by SLS on November 11, 2009, at 12:38:47
Scott,
Thanks but I already tried adding Bupropion to the Seroxat and lamictal (not lithium though).
As far as mindfulness goes, I do try it. I lie in bed just letting my thoughts come and go without emotionally reacting to them but to be honest I just find it boring (I guess that's an emotional reaction :-)) and it feels like time wasting.
The other day I sat there at work, just letting my thoughts come and go, my thoughts went like this "my head hurts, I feel sick, now I'm tired and so on and so on. I still felt quite ill at the end of it but I guess that's the point it's not supposed to change anything. But then if it doesn't change anything what's the point of doing it? I don't really find it gives me any insight into myself either. I'm glad that it helps you though. I think you are a lot more objective than I am anyway.
I know Scott that your depression is a lot worse than mine (mine I think coincides with a lot of tension and anxiety, perhaps more so than depression) and I'm glad it helps you. It must frustrate you to hear me moaning about my plight when yours has been even worse.
But thanks for telling me to persevere, it's just sometimes I feel I can understand why objectively the NHS psychiatrists might be thinking "look it's time to call it quits".
Denise
Posted by Meltingpot on November 12, 2009, at 13:46:37
In reply to Re: At what point should they give up trying??? » meltingpot, posted by Maxime on November 11, 2009, at 13:11:22
.
Posted by Meltingpot on November 12, 2009, at 13:50:29
In reply to Re: At what point should they give up trying???, posted by linkadge on November 11, 2009, at 15:16:14
Hi Linkadge,
Well the NHS psychiatrists aren't really wasting my money as I don't actually have to pay out on seeing them. This is the National Health Service in the UK so we pay national insurance tax out of our wages and that pays for any medical treatment we get.
You say that they shouldn't be offering me any treatment or hope if they want me to just accept my condition but that's just it, back in December they stopped offering me any treatment or hope and they are telling me I should just accept my condition. So they are actually doing what you say they should. It's just that I want them to keep encouraging me and giving me some hope that something out there will work (even if it's all lies)
Thanks for your response though.
Denise
Posted by Meltingpot on November 12, 2009, at 13:56:15
In reply to Re: At what point should they give up trying???, posted by bleauberry on November 11, 2009, at 17:17:11
Hi Bleauberry,
Thanks, I know that you are very much into herbs and vitamin supplements.
I just don't really have the patience to take them for months on end to see if they have any affect. I need something to work fairly quickly, even if it's just to give me a good nights sleep or take away some of the crappy feelings.
I did try rhodiola rosea and didn't really feel any difference, I tried valerian and didn't feel any different, I tried tyrosine and didn't feel any different and I think I tried Phenanaline (something like that) and didn't feel any different. But then again I only tried them for a week or so, how long are you supposed to actually give them. I did also try magnesium injections for months and that didn't seem to do anything either.
I do find it hard to understand when people say that they took Vitamin B (for a couple of days) and they felt a bit jittery because I don't feel anything at all. Maybe I'm just not very sensitive to these things.
Thanks anyway for taking the time to post such a long message and I will keep trying.
Denise
Posted by Meltingpot on November 12, 2009, at 14:07:17
In reply to Re: At what point should they give up trying???, posted by linkadge on November 11, 2009, at 15:16:14
Linkadge,
I guess you are right, my condition is really not that bad compared to other people on this board. I mean I always go to see the psychiatrist looking fairly smart and composed and I can express how I feel very well. I know they must see a lot of patients who are completely dishevelled, out of it and unable to communicate.
But I have been very bad in the past with a kind of anxious depression, where I think of suicide all of the time (even if I wouldn't do it) and my mum has suggested I go into hospital. I just don't really want to go into hospital because I can't see the point, I'm not sure exactly what the difference would be with the treatment I receive inside to what I receive outside. If i was admitted to hospital they are not going to suddenly produce a tablet that I've never taken before. I guess sleeping pills would help when I'm in a very bad state.
Like you say though perhaps they might take me a bit more seriously and try something more agressive. Maybe I should have turned up to my appointments after leaving my hair unwashed for a couple of weeks and wearing clothes that I'd slept in.
I know that my depression isn't as severe as many peoples but then again I think my condition is fairly chronic. Right now, off meds I feel like an old lifeless rag with hardly any energy or any inclination to do anything. My body aches as well and I feel sick all of the time. I'm not suprised that people who are depressed and anxious often mistake their symptoms for a physical, terminal illness because if I didn't know any better I would definately think there was something physically wrong.
Maybe I've just got a low threshold for feeling bad.
Denise
Posted by Meltingpot on November 12, 2009, at 14:09:30
In reply to Re: At what point should they give up trying??? » meltingpot, posted by johnj1 on November 11, 2009, at 19:29:20
Hi John,
Thanks for that lovely post. Don't you feel as though life is passing you by though?
Denise
Posted by Meltingpot on November 12, 2009, at 14:59:46
In reply to Re: At what point should they give up trying??? » meltingpot, posted by delna on November 12, 2009, at 2:58:26
Hi Delna,
Also I think the NHS Mental Health Services might have targets to meet and if they can get me off their books it will be one less person for them to worry about.
Really, I can't just blame them, I mean it's not their fault that the medication isn't working properly, they have tried but that one last NHS Psychiatrist I saw just seemed to be totally cold and didn't give me any encouragement at all. He just looked at me after I'd told him how bad I'd been feeling and didn't show any emotion at all and like you say then they just leave you in limbo.
The private psychiatrist at The Priory least gave me some hope but maybe she is just giving me hope of getting better because I'm paying her too. Having said that I did ask her that very question and she told me she wasn't. She is a very good psychiatrist and does specialise in psychopharmacy so I know she knows her stuff. I used to have private insurance when I had a good job but lost that when I lost my job (through the depression but that's another story)
She went along with my plan to come off medication because I had already stopped it. I don't think she thought it was a very good idea though. Mentally I haven't been too bad I just feel physically wretched.
I've never suffeered a complete breakdown and I've never had psychotic depression which I know is awful. I've been told (and I know) that I suffer with dysthymia and anxiety which sometimes gets worse so I'm not as bad as some people out there who can't even function. I feel guilty moaning about my plight really and I keep thinking one day God is going to look down on me and say "Suffering? You think you are suffering? I'll show you what real suffering is like?
I've written to a number of top people here in the UK asking them for advice, including Professor Nutt, a couple of years ag:-) Not sure if you have heard of him. A Dr Geddes (who wrote an article on ECT) at Cambridge just suggested I try CBT which I have now tried and It didn't work.
I will keep you updated and I might end up asking you for the name of a good psychiatrist in London if all else fails :-)Thanks.....Denise
Posted by Meltingpot on November 12, 2009, at 15:01:08
In reply to Re: At what point should they give up trying??? » meltingpot, posted by delna on November 12, 2009, at 2:58:26
Hi Delna,
Also I think the NHS Mental Health Services might have targets to meet and if they can get me off their books it will be one less person for them to worry about.
Really, I can't just blame them, I mean it's not their fault that the medication isn't working properly, they have tried but that one last NHS Psychiatrist I saw just seemed to be totally cold and didn't give me any encouragement at all. He just looked at me after I'd told him how bad I'd been feeling and didn't show any emotion at all and like you say then they just leave you in limbo.
The private psychiatrist at The Priory least gave me some hope but maybe she is just giving me hope of getting better because I'm paying her too. Having said that I did ask her that very question and she told me she wasn't. She is a very good psychiatrist and does specialise in psychopharmacy so I know she knows her stuff. I used to have private insurance when I had a good job but lost that when I lost my job (through the depression but that's another story)
She went along with my plan to come off medication because I had already stopped it. I don't think she thought it was a very good idea though. Mentally I haven't been too bad I just feel physically wretched.
I've never suffeered a complete breakdown and I've never had psychotic depression which I know is awful. I've been told (and I know) that I suffer with dysthymia and anxiety which sometimes gets worse so I'm not as bad as some people out there who can't even function. I feel guilty moaning about my plight really and I keep thinking one day God is going to look down on me and say "Suffering? You think you are suffering? I'll show you what real suffering is like?
I've written to a number of top people here in the UK asking them for advice, including Professor Nutt, a couple of years ag:-) Not sure if you have heard of him. A Dr Geddes (who wrote an article on ECT) at Cambridge just suggested I try CBT which I have now tried and It didn't work.
I will keep you updated and I might end up asking you for the name of a good psychiatrist in London if all else fails :-)Thanks.....Denise
Posted by SLS on November 12, 2009, at 15:10:19
In reply to To SLS, posted by Meltingpot on November 12, 2009, at 13:45:37
> Scott,
>
> Thanks but I already tried adding Bupropion to the Seroxat and lamictal (not lithium though).I hope you realize that you are not frustrating me. I am not somehow let down by you just because you have not responded to the things that I or anyone else suggests. Perhaps we here have more patience and understanding than most doctors. Regarding Seroxat, it might still be interesting to add a tricyclic to it if you haven't tried that already. Is nortriptyline available there? If not, which TCAs do you have access to? Doxepin?
By the way, have you tried combining Seroxat with high-dose mirtazapine?
Regarding the comparing of the severity of depression between individuals, I have learned that it is very difficult to approximate the suffering inside by what appears on the outside. Each person's hell is the worst they will ever know. I am fortunate that I glean significant relief from using the 5 drugs I currently take. You seem to have a good memory for how I experience life when nothing is helping. I appreciate your acknowledgment. Because you know my history, you must also acknowledge that you will likely find a treatment that helps you as mine does me. I just hope that you find a doctor who is determined and enlightened enough to search out treatments that are creative and unorthodox. Challenge him.
You are in my thoughts and prayers.
- Scott
Posted by Meltingpot on November 12, 2009, at 15:55:29
In reply to Re: At what point should they give up trying??? » meltingpot, posted by delna on November 12, 2009, at 2:58:26
Hi Bulldog,
Yes I agree with you about psychiatrists. Although there are some good ones and I've had one who really did seem to care.
I think a lot of the NHS psychiatrists are just so negative themselves and the last thing you need when you are feeling depressed and negatve is somebody who doesn't offer you any hope or encouragement.
The first psychiatrist I saw back in 2001 was a private psychiatrist and his attitude was brilliant, he was passionate about what he did, he actually listened to me and believed what I was telling him and he seemed to see me as a challenge. He really was what I needed at the time although he didn't get me better :-) I'm not sure how he would view me now though 8 years down the line and after trying so many different medications.
I will carry on trying to be mindfulness but it just makes me more aware of how life is passing me by and I'm not really experiencing it as I feel I should be.
I managed to get an NHS psychiatrist to provide me with a medical report and I have to say I did find it disheartening reading the report. It really did bring home to me how long I'd been trying so many different drugs and treatments. It's even got on the report that I've tried MAOIs, rTMS, magnesium injections. From an observers point of view I must seem totally obsessed and it must seem like it's ruling my life (well it is)Nevermind I won't carry on whinging anymore just wanted to vent my frustrations and ask the question.
Thanks for the support.
Denise
Denise
Posted by johnj1 on November 12, 2009, at 18:35:13
In reply to To Johnj, posted by Meltingpot on November 12, 2009, at 14:09:30
At times I feel that way but doesn't everybody? I used to think money would make life happy but it doesn't matter what you have because you can still appreciate a sunset or sunrise, a good book, a beautiful smile, etc., just as much as the next person. The best things in life are free.
You can still chose to participate in things even if you are down. Actually, I often think that I should do the opposite of what I feel at that time. For example, have you ever been so tired that you don't want to exercise at all? But once you get moving you realize that you were very glad you did. It is like that with a lot of things.
For me, I am my own worst enemy because I try and talk myself out of things instead of going with my gut. Anxiety is my big problem with pure "O" ocd. When I just ignore or laugh at some of my thoughts I proceed much easier.
I know we all just don't want to struggle but we all do. Everyone is fighting some type of battle. A very good OCD doctor said "We are all fu**ing nuts." Once I realized that I am human I felt better.
So, if you can get out and move. Exercise is great. Even just walking! Do little things for yourself and then be proud of yourself. Eat something healthy and say "that was good for me" and if you eat something not so healthy say "it won't kill me, don't sweat it." What I am getting at is give youself a break and use positive reinforcement even if you do something not so great. We are all human, accept it. But don't give up, keep trying.
regards
johnj
Posted by johnj1 on November 12, 2009, at 18:41:12
In reply to To Johnj, posted by Meltingpot on November 12, 2009, at 14:09:30
Denise:
Also, I have found that sometimes the message boards can be somewhat unhelpful for people if you spend too much time here. I really like what SLS has to say. He is far more wise than I will ever be and his posts are very supportive. Just be careful with posts because the fact is you might never take advice from some of us, me included, if you knew me in person. I don't mean that people are not good people but just be careful ok?
Best regards
johnj
Posted by Phillipa on November 12, 2009, at 19:01:03
In reply to Re: At what point should they give up trying???, posted by Meltingpot on November 12, 2009, at 13:32:35
Denise your're a sweetie. I do hope the trial works. Thanks for thinking of me when you feel so horrible. Love Phillipa
Posted by linkadge on November 12, 2009, at 19:51:48
In reply to To Linkadge, posted by Meltingpot on November 12, 2009, at 13:50:29
>It's just that I want them to keep encouraging >me and giving me some hope that something out >there will work (even if it's all lies)
I agree. Just have them throw some new placebos at you if thats the best they can do. Telling you to go home and live with it is no good.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on November 12, 2009, at 20:03:50
In reply to Linkadge - one more thing, posted by Meltingpot on November 12, 2009, at 14:07:17
>I mean I always go to see the psychiatrist >looking fairly smart and composed and I can >express how I feel very well.
Well thats where doctors weight the pros and cons. If they think your condition is mild compared to others, they are probably more likely to shrug you off.
I would never tell anybody to fake symptoms that they don't have but at the same time the doctor needs to get a good picture of how this is affecting your life.
That being said, going in with an "agenda" has never really helped me. I have pushed for this med or that based on what I had heard from this patient or that doctor. None of it has really got me anywhere.
Not sure what to suggest. Just try and keep your foot in the door somehow, I guess.
Linkadge
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