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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by amigan on December 3, 2007, at 13:30:57
Hello everyone.
I didn't got any feedback on this subject in the previous thread, thus i thought to open a separate thread about this. I guess it's because Moclobemide has not been approved in the usa. :-DCondition: I don't suffer from depression. I have social phobia, agoraphobia and i'm somewhat dysthymic.
Treatment: I'm currently taking Diazepam + Fluoxetine (Prozac).The benzo is ok but i am... not sure that Prozac does much for me, so i want to try a MAOI.
I know that Nardil is the right MAOI for SP etc, but it's not available in here. Not even Parnate.
I have to chose between Selegiline (Deprenyl) and Moclobemide (Aurorix). Which one do you think that it would be most effective for phobias?Also which of the two is the more activating medication?
Diazepam make me drowsy and i could use some up-lifting. I suspect that it's Moclobemide, as it's a MAOI-A and it boosts Epinephrine+ NorEpinephrine+ Dopamine!, (Serotonine is not activating) while Selegiline only boosts dopamine at <=10mg... Right?
On the other hand, Selegiline is metabolized into L-(meth)Amphetamine, BUT i read that the l- isomer is not considered to be psychoactive at all! It has only peripheral action.PS: Another question sprung to mind since i've being digging this forum to find some answers to my questions: Why almost everyone here, writes (more or less) that Moclobemide is cr*p, while there so much excitement for Selegiline? "On paper", Moclobemide looks so much better. (see above info) There is got to be a reason. Perhaps Selegiline does some additional stuff that i'm not aware of?
Thank you.
Posted by sonic_gb on December 3, 2007, at 14:24:42
In reply to Selegiline or Moclobemide? - Help me decide, posted by amigan on December 3, 2007, at 13:30:57
I thought Moclobemide was absolutely great for about 5 days. It kicked in instantly, and I was feeling maybe slightly hypomanic. This lasted for 4-5 days, and then I woke up one morning and the effect was gone. We increased my dose 3 times, with the final dose being higher than the maximum recomended dose, and had absolutely no effect. It was the biggest poop out ever. But until then, I had never felt better since childhood. So maybe give it a try. I've never tried selegiline to compare it with.
Posted by tecknohed on December 3, 2007, at 20:43:52
In reply to Selegiline or Moclobemide? - Help me decide, posted by amigan on December 3, 2007, at 13:30:57
I have SP (Social Phobia) & I've tried moclobamide for it - it WAS cr*p! Also its supposed to be somewhat activating but it knocked me out after every dose once I hit 450mg.
I haven't tried selegiline but its definitely said to be activating. And combine that with a benzo then you probably have a good SP combo.
By the way, why are you on Valium? Its certainly not the best benzo for SP. Have you considered clonazepam? Usually first choice benzo for SP, depending on where you live & whether you have a pdoc or not. I take it & it kicks Valium's *ss for my SP.
Posted by amigan on December 3, 2007, at 22:15:16
In reply to Re: Selegiline or Moclobemide? - Help me decide » amigan, posted by tecknohed on December 3, 2007, at 20:43:52
> I have SP (Social Phobia) & I've tried moclobamide for it - it WAS cr*p!
Yes. I read that many people agree with you, although SP is one of the indications for this drug along with depression. (While it's not for selegiline)
> Also its supposed to be somewhat activating but it knocked me out after every dose once I hit 450mg.
Hmm.. You must be idiosyncratic with this drug. It is generally considered non-sedating.
> I haven't tried selegiline but its definitely said to be activating.Yes but, the same have been said for moclobemide.. I guess only someone who has tried both meds, can inform us for sure..
> And combine that with a benzo then you probably have a good SP combo.
>
> By the way, why are you on Valium?Because that's what my doc put me on. For some reason, Clonazepam is not particularly popular in some european countries, as it is in the usa for example.
> Its certainly not the best benzo for SP. Have you considered clonazepam? Usually first choice benzo for SP, depending on where you live & whether you have a pdoc or not. I take it & it kicks Valium's *ss for my SP.
I should try to make him prescribe me clonazepam then.
Posted by Phillipa on December 4, 2007, at 0:24:47
In reply to Re: Selegiline or Moclobemide? - Help me decide » amigan, posted by tecknohed on December 3, 2007, at 20:43:52
Tech really you like klonopin better? I felt suicidal when I tried it wonder why any ideas? Phillipa
Posted by tecknohed on December 4, 2007, at 8:21:45
In reply to Re: Selegiline or Moclobemide? - Help me decide » tecknohed, posted by Phillipa on December 4, 2007, at 0:24:47
> Tech really you like klonopin better? I felt suicidal when I tried it wonder why any ideas? Phillipa
Well, at 1.5mg/day I myself thought it was making me depressed. But After coming off Nardil I increased to 3mg/day and WOW. It even felt antidepressant! I'd say its also knocked out my SP by 75% whilst 1.5mg bearly touched it, even with Nardil. You certainly need a good dose & although you'll be sedated a few days that'll soon go. But we're all different aren't we.
It probably also depends on whether or not you have bad SP because solving the SP in itself can give an antidepressant effect all of it's own, especially if the depression is completely SP related - get rid of the SP & the depression is gone! In theory! ;)
For me, Valium is a great 'general' anxiolytic for a couple of weeks but builds tolerance very quickly. And its never helped my SP, unless I add a mild stimulant with it like caffein, which I can't handle for very long anyway - gives me a 'come-down'.
Posted by Phillipa on December 4, 2007, at 18:38:28
In reply to Re: Selegiline or Moclobemide? - Help me decide » Phillipa, posted by tecknohed on December 4, 2007, at 8:21:45
Tech interesting as always took low very low doses of it and that was with xanax as an inbetween med. Doc at the time was trying to switch me over to klonopin. I remember two summers ago taking 2mg of klonopin instead of valium and didn't feel suicidal. And now feel horrible waking after taking the 20mg of valium maybe should switch? Love Phillipa
Posted by tecknohed on December 4, 2007, at 19:27:29
In reply to Re: Selegiline or Moclobemide? - Help me decide » tecknohed, posted by Phillipa on December 4, 2007, at 18:38:28
> Tech interesting as always took low very low doses of it and that was with xanax as an inbetween med. Doc at the time was trying to switch me over to klonopin. I remember two summers ago taking 2mg of klonopin instead of valium and didn't feel suicidal. And now feel horrible waking after taking the 20mg of valium maybe should switch? Love Phillipa
If you also take an AD with Klonopin theres obviously even less chance of depression. Though I'm not sure if the Luvox would suffice (unless you stayed on a low dose - which might not be enough anyway), especially as you find it somewhat sedating. Emsam might be particularly good for combining with Klonopin, as would desipramine. Or even simple Prozac if it agrees with you.
teck x
Posted by Phillipa on December 4, 2007, at 19:33:24
In reply to Re: Selegiline or Moclobemide? - Help me decide » Phillipa, posted by tecknohed on December 4, 2007, at 19:27:29
Tech always wanted to try EMSAM and have two boxes here. Will have to wait til after surgery though. Love Phillipa x0x0
Posted by sonic_gb on December 5, 2007, at 7:40:35
In reply to Re: Selegiline or Moclobemide? - Help me decide » tecknohed, posted by Phillipa on December 4, 2007, at 19:33:24
> Tech always wanted to try EMSAM and have two boxes here. Will have to wait til after surgery though. Love Phillipa x0x0
Hi Phillipa,
Just a question. You seem to ave a lot of medication "just lying around". How do you get your doc to try so many different things? I would like to explore my treatment options with my pdoc, but he wants to focus on one thing at a time, for a LONG time, even if it isn't working well. What's your secret?
Sonic
Posted by Phillipa on December 5, 2007, at 19:21:22
In reply to Re: Selegiline or Moclobemide? - Help me decide » Phillipa, posted by sonic_gb on December 5, 2007, at 7:40:35
No secret just had accumulated a lot of prescriptions never used and lots of samples never use and they last for years. Phillipa
Posted by amigan on December 6, 2007, at 12:16:11
In reply to Selegiline or Moclobemide? - Help me decide, posted by amigan on December 3, 2007, at 13:30:57
Ok, back on the subject...
I could appreciate some additional feedback on the questions i have posted. Preferably from people who have tried both substances, but all reports are welcome. I can't believe that noone here has tried both of them.
> Hello everyone.
> I didn't got any feedback on this subject in the previous thread, thus i thought to open a separate thread about this. I guess it's because Moclobemide has not been approved in the usa. :-D
>
> Condition: I don't suffer from depression. I have social phobia, agoraphobia and i'm somewhat dysthymic.
> Treatment: I'm currently taking Diazepam + Fluoxetine (Prozac).
>
> The benzo is ok but i am... not sure that Prozac does much for me, so i want to try a MAOI.
> I know that Nardil is the right MAOI for SP etc, but it's not available in here. Not even Parnate.
> I have to chose between Selegiline (Deprenyl) and Moclobemide (Aurorix). Which one do you think that it would be most effective for phobias?
>
> Also which of the two is the more activating medication?
> Diazepam make me drowsy and i could use some up-lifting. I suspect that it's Moclobemide, as it's a MAOI-A and it boosts Epinephrine+ NorEpinephrine+ Dopamine!, (Serotonine is not activating) while Selegiline only boosts dopamine at <=10mg... Right?
> On the other hand, Selegiline is metabolized into L-(meth)Amphetamine, BUT i read that the l- isomer is not considered to be psychoactive at all! It has only peripheral action.
>
> PS: Another question sprung to mind since i've being digging this forum to find some answers to my questions: Why almost everyone here, writes (more or less) that Moclobemide is cr*p, while there so much excitement for Selegiline? "On paper", Moclobemide looks so much better. (see above info) There is got to be a reason. Perhaps Selegiline does some additional stuff that i'm not aware of?
>
> Thank you.
Posted by sonic_gb on December 6, 2007, at 15:41:34
In reply to Re: Selegiline or Moclobemide? - Help me decide, posted by amigan on December 6, 2007, at 12:16:11
> Ok, back on the subject...
> I could appreciate some additional feedback on the questions i have posted. Preferably from people who have tried both substances, but all reports are welcome. I can't believe that noone here has tried both of them.
>
>
> > Hello everyone.
> > I didn't got any feedback on this subject in the previous thread, thus i thought to open a separate thread about this. I guess it's because Moclobemide has not been approved in the usa. :-D
> >
> > Condition: I don't suffer from depression. I have social phobia, agoraphobia and i'm somewhat dysthymic.
> > Treatment: I'm currently taking Diazepam + Fluoxetine (Prozac).
> >
> > The benzo is ok but i am... not sure that Prozac does much for me, so i want to try a MAOI.
> > I know that Nardil is the right MAOI for SP etc, but it's not available in here. Not even Parnate.
> > I have to chose between Selegiline (Deprenyl) and Moclobemide (Aurorix). Which one do you think that it would be most effective for phobias?
> >
> > Also which of the two is the more activating medication?
> > Diazepam make me drowsy and i could use some up-lifting. I suspect that it's Moclobemide, as it's a MAOI-A and it boosts Epinephrine+ NorEpinephrine+ Dopamine!, (Serotonine is not activating) while Selegiline only boosts dopamine at <=10mg... Right?
> > On the other hand, Selegiline is metabolized into L-(meth)Amphetamine, BUT i read that the l- isomer is not considered to be psychoactive at all! It has only peripheral action.
> >
> > PS: Another question sprung to mind since i've being digging this forum to find some answers to my questions: Why almost everyone here, writes (more or less) that Moclobemide is cr*p, while there so much excitement for Selegiline? "On paper", Moclobemide looks so much better. (see above info) There is got to be a reason. Perhaps Selegiline does some additional stuff that i'm not aware of?
> >
> > Thank you.
>
>OK, well I tried both of them. Selegiline was a short trial of oral Eldepryl tablets (Not Emsam) 5mg/day. I only did this for ~2 months. I noticed next to nothing except for a slight increase in energy, insomnia, and sex drive. I think doubling the dose *might* have done something different, i.e. help my depression.
As I mentioned before, I had a *wonderful* but short-lived experience with Moclobemide. I started at 300 mg/day, and within 24 hours was borderline hypomanic, feeling better than I had in over a decade. The hypomania faded to just positive, well-balanced thinking, and general happiness in a day or two. Then all of a sudden a couple of weeks later, the effect vanished, and even increasing the dose to 900mg didn't help. So it was good while it lasted but it pooped out like you wouldn't believe.
Does that help you at all or just make the choice more confusing?
Sonic
Posted by amigan on December 6, 2007, at 16:00:59
In reply to Re: Selegiline or Moclobemide? - Help me decide » amigan, posted by sonic_gb on December 6, 2007, at 15:41:34
> Does that help you at all or just make the choice more confusing?
Well, it's an objective report from someone who tried both meds, so i think it helps.
This is the end of the thread.
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