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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by ralphrost on January 31, 2007, at 19:15:59
Hello,
after two weeks off Citalopram, I started Tianeptine 3 days ago, 3 x 12.5 mg daily. One of the reasons for stopping the SSRIs is that I've always felt totally numb while on them.
The withdrawn was not so though, because of the low dosage I was on (5 mg/day).
However, since starting Tianeptine I've felt quite some anxiety coming back, as well as increased depressive thoughts. It's making me concerned (twice ;) because I still didn't hear such kind of report.
Do you have any experience to share about the initial period on Tianeptine?
Thank you,
Ralph
Posted by Iansf on February 1, 2007, at 0:20:16
In reply to SSRI to Tianeptine - side fx, posted by ralphrost on January 31, 2007, at 19:15:59
My guess would be the anxiety and depression are returning because you're no longer getting the benefit from citalopram but not yet getting help from tianeptine. It typically takes two to six weeks for tianeptine to start working but not nearly that long for citalopram to STOP working. Chances are the negative mood you're experiencing is exactly what you'd be experiencing with no drug at all. I think you need to give the tianeptine time to take effect.
> Hello,
>
> after two weeks off Citalopram, I started Tianeptine 3 days ago, 3 x 12.5 mg daily. One of the reasons for stopping the SSRIs is that I've always felt totally numb while on them.
>
> The withdrawn was not so though, because of the low dosage I was on (5 mg/day).
>
> However, since starting Tianeptine I've felt quite some anxiety coming back, as well as increased depressive thoughts. It's making me concerned (twice ;) because I still didn't hear such kind of report.
>
> Do you have any experience to share about the initial period on Tianeptine?
>
> Thank you,
>
> Ralph
Posted by ralphrost on February 2, 2007, at 12:02:27
In reply to Re: SSRI to Tianeptine - side fx » ralphrost, posted by Iansf on February 1, 2007, at 0:20:16
Thank you for your input.
Feeling difficult (!) my trial with Tianeptine... Very much fatigue and anxiety going on...
Sleep doesn't refresh me, so I wake up feeling tired already. Xanax offers me some help, though limited.
Thinking about halfing the dosis...
Best wishes,
Ralph
Posted by ralphrost on February 3, 2007, at 20:41:26
In reply to Re: SSRI to Tianeptine - side fx, posted by ralphrost on February 2, 2007, at 12:02:27
Update:
Since yesterday, I took 3 x half a pill through the day.
There was a very big difference, all the side fx were gone and sleep was quite good :)
I'll wait for one or two weeks and then try to rise the dosis back to the standard.
Ralph
Posted by Declan on February 3, 2007, at 22:50:47
In reply to Re: SSRI to Tianeptine - side fx (easy now ;), posted by ralphrost on February 3, 2007, at 20:41:26
I found it gave me a 3 month window of opportunity.
The more slowly you can increase the dose, the longer the window might be open for you.
Posted by ralphrost on February 4, 2007, at 6:34:06
In reply to Re: SSRI to Tianeptine - side fx (easy now ;) » ralphrost, posted by Declan on February 3, 2007, at 22:50:47
> I found it gave me a 3 month window of opportunity.
>
> The more slowly you can increase the dose, the longer the window might be open for you.Hi Declan,
by window of opportunity you mean "remission"? Hope not, cuz I heard about some poop-out cases while on Tianeptine. Did you also start with a low dosis regimen?
The most important effect I'm noticing while under Tianeptine (and it's only about 5 days i'm on it) is that emotions are slowly coming back. I feel more human, though my old emotional problems seem to knock my door again. It's not bad at all. Maybe I'll have to deal with my problems, rather than hiding them.
It feels like I may have some anxiety problems in a near future, though. Do you use anything else with Tianeptine (Klonopin or something)?
Best wishes,
Ralph
Posted by Declan on February 4, 2007, at 17:45:27
In reply to Re: SSRI to Tianeptine - side fx (easy now ;) » Declan, posted by ralphrost on February 4, 2007, at 6:34:06
Well, something like remission, but I'm sceptical about remission, just like I am about depression.
But what I was trying to say was that tianeptine worked well for me for 3 months before I got a tolerance, which I guess is what people mean by poopout. It still works, but it's not the same either.
That 3 month period was really useful to me.
Now I could keep on increasing the dose, but I think that's unwise (biochemically) and I don't want to end up like that bloke who took a hundred a day.
I started on 2 tablets a day and I should really have stayed on that longer, but it made me feel so very much better.
I'm just saying that relief is rare and precious and it is best to make it last.
I use Valium with tianeptine, the smallest amount possible, currently around 10mg/d.
Posted by ralphrost on February 4, 2007, at 20:18:01
In reply to Re: SSRI to Tianeptine - side fx (easy now ;), posted by Declan on February 4, 2007, at 17:45:27
Think I understand what you mean by skepticism...
In my mind, I don't expect to achieve full remission (whatever that means) either. I just wish I had some things back again, like the capacity of feeling more emotions (depression feels like negative schizophrenia symps to me) and having some humor sense back. It may look weird, but sometimes I wish I could feel sadness (most of the time I have sort of blunted feelings). I don't expect to feel great after all.
How does depression feel to you? What's missing for you to have back from your "old self"?
Sorry for the questions. You may not answer if you think I'm being invasive.
Cheers,
Ralph
Posted by Declan on February 6, 2007, at 20:37:48
In reply to Re: SSRI to Tianeptine - side fx (easy now ;) » Declan, posted by ralphrost on February 4, 2007, at 20:18:01
You're not being invasive at all.
It's interesting that you should mention sense of humour.
For me tianeptine has been good for that, perhaps because I feel more comfortable/pleasant being me and so don't have to be so careful??I have no desire to feel less. I'd much rather feel worse than less, because I can (just) handle being me.
For much of my life I have felt amused and agonised in some kind of mix.
I've never taken SSRIs and won't bother now. The only ADs I'm interested in are deprenyl and tianeptine, and if it came to the crunch, Nardil and Parnate.But old self? Afraid I haven't got one. My mood has waxed and waned over the years, and I spent MUCH too long staring at clocks in a challenging manner waiting for time to pass, and I could have read a little less terrible history and looked after myself way better, but apart from that I have felt more or less the same most of my life.
Posted by ralphrost on February 7, 2007, at 7:38:55
In reply to Re: SSRI to Tianeptine - side fx (easy now ;) » ralphrost, posted by Declan on February 6, 2007, at 20:37:48
Hello Declan,
thank you for your post. It's good to know you seem satisfied with your treatment, despite looks like you had a very difficult past.
I also used to feel "amused and agonised", very much like you said. Some days I'd feel really funny and "alive", interacting with people in an amazing way. The day after I could be deeply sad and suicide. I didn't really notice I had such mood problems, I was just living.
I think my good days used to balance the bad ones. I started noticing something was wrong after I'd feel bad 6 days in a week.
Through the last year something weird happened. From January to October I stopped having some good days, and never felt the same. It's scary, but it coincided with my Accutane use (would it interact with mood, as suspected?). Might be only a coincidence, and I really hope it is.
As you said, I prefer to feel worse than being devoid of emotions. Having emotions and humor sense makes me always socialize. It's crucial for me. It would mean remission. It's interesting I found an article with a similar point of view, though GHB is out of question:
http://www.biopsychiatry.com/ghb/authentic.html
I think it doens't matter how bad is your life, if you are able to laugh at it and are around people.
I'm still trying Tianeptine, now 2 tablets a day. I started this month, so think it needs more time. By now, I feel a strong drowsiness in the morning. Let's hope for the best.
Best wishes for your life,
Ralph
Posted by ralphrost on February 7, 2007, at 8:06:35
In reply to Re: SSRI to Tianeptine - side fx (easy now ;) » ralphrost, posted by Declan on February 6, 2007, at 20:37:48
I've heard some good reports of people combining tianeptine with selegiline or another dopaminergic (maybe Cabergoline), because of the tianeptine's gentle AD effect.
You could try it if you feel the need of upping your dosis (as previously posted).
I had a good experience with selegiline (monotherapy) in the past, although i used to feel irritable while on it.
Ralph
Posted by Declan on February 7, 2007, at 11:48:55
In reply to Re: SSRI to Tianeptine - side fx » Declan, posted by ralphrost on February 7, 2007, at 8:06:35
I'm trying to remember how many people have come here mentioning this.
Three that I know of.
Posted by elanor roosevelt on February 7, 2007, at 21:27:53
In reply to Re: SSRI to Tianeptine - side fx » Declan, posted by ralphrost on February 7, 2007, at 8:06:35
Are you giving up on the Tianeptine?
I have emailed my pdoc a number of articles and will discuss the possibility of Taineptine with him in a few days.
I talked him into prescribing Adderall to prolong my Lexapro experience
the Adderall has made a world of change as far as my focus
however the Lexapro is fading in effectiveness
the Adderall as also had a somewhat socializing effect but not quite enough
what do you think of combining Adderall and Tianeptine
Also, how long did it take for the Tiane[tine to "kick in"
thanks
Posted by Declan on February 8, 2007, at 3:35:20
In reply to Declan:Tianeptine, posted by elanor roosevelt on February 7, 2007, at 21:27:53
I think Adderal and tianeptine might be OK.
YMMV.
I'm not giving up on tianeptine....just having a bad day. It's pretty good for me, all things considered.
Posted by psychobot5000 on February 8, 2007, at 9:42:09
In reply to Declan:Tianeptine, posted by elanor roosevelt on February 7, 2007, at 21:27:53
I've been on Adderall and Tianeptine. I do think the two are a natural combination--the stimulant adding motivation and energy to Tianeptine's (for me) gentle anxiolytic and antidepressant effect.
That said, I preferred pure dexamphetamine (dexedrine, dextrostat) to Adderall, because Adderall seems to cause more anxiety and heart-rate/blood-pressure increases. Whichever is your favorite stim I'd recommend trying (methylphenidate, too). Such combinations gave me some of the better periods in my recent life.
P-bot
Posted by liliths on February 8, 2007, at 13:10:14
In reply to Re: SSRI to Tianeptine - side fx (easy now ;) » ralphrost, posted by Declan on February 6, 2007, at 20:37:48
hi Declan,
this post in particular touched a real nerve in me.. some of what you wrote really resonated :)
Now of course, I look back and see a life spent more wasted than lived and it just makes me very sad
I thought I'd just join this thread rather than post a new one about starting tianeptine. Yes, it finally came!!
I've been taking it for about 5 days now... 2x daily.
In the morning, I also take focalin XR (40mg) and klonopin (1mg). I've noticed an almost immediate difference, though I still need to overcome a lot of the ingrained habits being depressed for so long left me with. But my ability to focus is intensified and it's easier to actually accomplish something. I'm not sitting around frozen though I have a long way to go towards achieving anything close to the levels of functionality I've experienced in the past. Depression used to come and go when I was younger, meds or not, and unfortunately, I'm dealing with some health issues which are keeping me down and housebound. Hopefully, that will improve.
But when I look back, even just a couple of years ago, I was like a different person in my ability to 'get out and do things'. But it's only that ability to "do" that's REALLY changed. I am what I am, as popeye used to say LOL
In the afternoon, with the tianeptine, I'm still taking 100mg wellbutrin, along with a number of supplements supposedly for stress and improved brain function (who knows if they do anything). I've been considering trying Piracetam and I want to discontinue the wellbutrin but figure I should wait till I'm on the tianeptine for a couple of weeks before stopping.
I do notice as the focalin starts to diminish, I'm still falling into my sluggish evening behavior. Someone on this board has posted that focalin lasts for 12 hours for her - that's definitely not my experience but overall, I'm quite happy with it. In terms of duration, I'd say the focalin works similarly to concerta for me. But as I tend to naturally have trouble with sleep, I don't want to augment with more stims and that was actually the reason I decided not to take the tianeptine 3x daily. I have considered splitting my focalin dose to 20mg in the morning and the other 20mg in the afternoon but one thing I learned when it came to meds was to change only 1 thing at a time! Right now it's tianeptine's turn :)
I'd really prefer to not take anything, though I'm pretty sure I wouldn't last long that way.
I haven't had any noticeable side effects. 'Maybe' I'm slightly more gaseous in the evenings but that could be dietary and it's minimal anyway
so... so far, so good. I only hope it lasts long enough to deal with getting back into living again. I'm still not really able to socialize (part of that is the whole evening 'comedown') but even during the day, it's still hard to go out of the house. And getting/staying in touch with people is still a huge hurdle.
But I do feel a bit returned to myself. I think I'm more interested again and less consumed by self-hate, at least part of the time.
please keep your fingers crossed for me. I've been through and continue to be experiencing some of the worst luck in the world... what's that saying: if it weren't for bad luck, I'd have no luck at all. Well, that's been me.
and I could really use a break or I'm giving up
hope you're having a better day. I read further down this thread that you'd had a bad one. Be well and thank you for all your help
namaste,
lilith
> It's interesting that you should mention sense of humour.
> For me tianeptine has been good for that, perhaps because I feel more comfortable/pleasant being me and so don't have to be so careful??
>
> I have no desire to feel less. I'd much rather feel worse than less, because I can (just) handle being me.
> For much of my life I have felt amused and agonised in some kind of mix.
> I've never taken SSRIs and won't bother now. The only ADs I'm interested in are deprenyl and tianeptine, and if it came to the crunch, Nardil and Parnate.
>
> But old self? Afraid I haven't got one. My mood has waxed and waned over the years, and I spent MUCH too long staring at clocks in a challenging manner waiting for time to pass, and I could have read a little less terrible history and looked after myself way better, but apart from that I have felt more or less the same most of my life.
>
Posted by liliths on February 8, 2007, at 14:32:10
In reply to just started tianeptine » Declan, posted by liliths on February 8, 2007, at 13:10:14
I swear, there ought to be a law against admitting you 'might' be feeling better.No sooner do I post that I end up in front of the computer mindlessly playing cards while hating myself
sigh
lilith
Posted by Iansf on February 8, 2007, at 23:12:03
In reply to Re: just started tianeptine, posted by liliths on February 8, 2007, at 14:32:10
> I swear, there ought to be a law against admitting you 'might' be feeling better.No sooner do I post that I end up in front of the computer mindlessly playing cards while hating myself
>
> sigh
>
> lilithTry not to look on admitting you might be feeling better as leading to your feeling worse. Moving to a happier state after a long period of depression is difficult, and there will almost certainly be fluctuations. This period of self-hate is one of the them. While self-hate is a state you no doubt know too well, don't deny yourself the knowledge of having felt better. Feeling happy may be less familiar, but it's no less real than feeling unhappy.
Posted by liliths on February 9, 2007, at 6:17:24
In reply to Re: just started tianeptine » liliths, posted by Iansf on February 8, 2007, at 23:12:03
Thank you very much for your kind words.
The habit of being depressed can be hard to break. I sometimes fear I sabotage my own attempts to climb out of the pit.
but you are right... both states are transitory and not being attached to either can be a helpful way of coping
namaste,
lilith> Try not to look on admitting you might be feeling better as leading to your feeling worse. Moving to a happier state after a long period of depression is difficult, and there will almost certainly be fluctuations. This period of self-hate is one of the them. While self-hate is a state you no doubt know too well, don't deny yourself the knowledge of having felt better. Feeling happy may be less familiar, but it's no less real than feeling unhappy.
Posted by Declan on February 10, 2007, at 1:28:30
In reply to Re: just started tianeptine » Iansf, posted by liliths on February 9, 2007, at 6:17:24
>Feeling happy may be less familiar, but it's no less real than feeling unhappy.<
I wish I could remember the good things I've read about this, and I wish I could believe it too....I mean really believe it, deep down and without effort.
Force of habits of thought?
Posted by liliths on February 10, 2007, at 7:20:56
In reply to Re: just started tianeptine, posted by Declan on February 10, 2007, at 1:28:30
hi Declan,
I know what you mean. Ever since my initial post I've been consumed by despair. My biggest fear is that I have become so 'comfortable' with pain, I can't let the light in anymore.
But for a few obligations (mainly my aging cat), I'm about ready to just give up. I wish I truly believed I could be restored but the notion of accumulating any time feeling good seems a distant memory
I do think the 'habits' of depression are like some sort of insidious demon
I hope you are having a better day.
namaste,
lilith> >Feeling happy may be less familiar, but it's no less real than feeling unhappy.<
>
> I wish I could remember the good things I've read about this, and I wish I could believe it too....I mean really believe it, deep down and without effort.
>
> Force of habits of thought?
>
>
Posted by elanor roosevelt on February 10, 2007, at 13:39:35
In reply to Re: just started tianeptine » Declan, posted by liliths on February 10, 2007, at 7:20:56
met with my pdoc yesterday and we are not on the same page w/ the tianeptine
i just got slammed by the lexapro and i need to pull out of this state of mind
pdoc was lost as to the next step so i walked away with a paxil (not cr) script --
i have tianeptine and would like to start
from what i have read here, it takes a while to kick in and i am deciding if i should try to pull out of this bad spot with the paxil first
actually, just writing this has helped me decide
f*ck the paxil
i am going to start on 2 half-tabs of the stablon today
i am also taking 5mg adderall 2x daily,
10mg ambien and xanax as needed -- approx 2mg daily
Posted by Declan on February 10, 2007, at 21:30:30
In reply to Re: just started tianeptine » Declan, posted by liliths on February 10, 2007, at 7:20:56
I am having a better day. Thanx for thinking of me.
Do you know what it is you are despairing about?
Posted by Declan on February 10, 2007, at 21:32:39
In reply to Re: just started tianeptine, posted by elanor roosevelt on February 10, 2007, at 13:39:35
Elanor, tianeptine worked for me straight away pretty much.
Like Valium or something like that.
Posted by liliths on February 11, 2007, at 6:20:23
In reply to Re: just started tianeptine, posted by elanor roosevelt on February 10, 2007, at 13:39:35
hi elanor
I felt the taineptine immediately as well - though I started at 1 tab 2x daily. It hasn't 'changed' my world but it has made a difference and every little bit helps. I think, for me, changing some of my depressed, self-defeating habits have become 1/2 the battle
have you always taken your adderall in a split dose? how does that work for you? I've been thinking of splitting my focalin as I feel the effects of the tianeptine much more in the a.m. along with my add meds than I do in the afternoon.
personally I wouldn't waste my time with paxil, unless you've done well on ssri's in the past. They make me numb, anorgasmic and just 'blunt' everything... not my idea of living
Good Luck with the tianeptine... please keep us updated :))
namaste,
lilith> met with my pdoc yesterday and we are not on the same page w/ the tianeptine
> i just got slammed by the lexapro and i need to pull out of this state of mind
> pdoc was lost as to the next step so i walked away with a paxil (not cr) script --
> i have tianeptine and would like to start
> from what i have read here, it takes a while to kick in and i am deciding if i should try to pull out of this bad spot with the paxil first
> actually, just writing this has helped me decide
> f*ck the paxil
> i am going to start on 2 half-tabs of the stablon today
> i am also taking 5mg adderall 2x daily,
> 10mg ambien and xanax as needed -- approx 2mg daily
>
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