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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 41. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Phillipa on December 14, 2006, at 12:08:31
Something has to give I did it again. I couldn't sleep even on the 20mg of valium woke up in an hour had my husband give me 25mg of seroquel and took .5 I think of xanax . I'm not even dressed yet and feel like s*it. I want to be normal and normal people don't get up at ll am spaced out and starting 2.5mg of prozac feel worse. Also regulating thyroid. What is wrong with me and how to get over fear of anxiety that wakes me up. The day is over I've done nothing. I'm failing. Love Phillipa
Posted by saturn on December 14, 2006, at 12:26:14
In reply to I Did It Again and it 's My Fault, posted by Phillipa on December 14, 2006, at 12:08:31
Phillipa why is it your fault?
Posted by Phillipa on December 14, 2006, at 12:44:14
In reply to Re: I Did It Again and it 's My Fault » Phillipa, posted by saturn on December 14, 2006, at 12:26:14
Because I can't accept not sleeping like others and then sleep late. And I'm not giving myself to society in the role of worker or something. Even my dogs know. They look at me funny. And afraid of everything? It's not right.Love Phillipa ps I shouldn't have taken the seroquel should have just lay there.
Posted by stargazer on December 14, 2006, at 13:13:28
In reply to Re: I Did It Again and it 's My Fault » saturn, posted by Phillipa on December 14, 2006, at 12:44:14
Phillipa,
do you think Valium is the best drug for you? I don't know enough about it but you have too much anxiety and is it reducing it at all?
You try so hard but nothing seems to be working. I wish there was something else you could try to get some relief.
I always thought the SSRI's were the best for anxiety but I don't know. Have you tried Celexa ever, that helped me for awhile. Prozac and Paxil also helped me. Effexor,Zoloft, Cymbalta made me worse. Pamelor is a sedating AD, as is Remeron and Trazadone, commonly used successfully for sleep.
I took Ativan briefly and Buspar, which didn't help me but might help you.
Are there any studies down in Fl you could enter? You have to get some relief, too much of any one condition is overwhelming...I'll look into the studies for you if you want me to.
Celexa is a good AD for someone with other health conditions or taking other meds like you do. Perhaps if you could find an AD to reduce anxiety you could wean off Valium a bit, maybe its making anxiety worse without even knowing it. I see it can have a paradoxical effect of causing anxiety.
Not sure, don't have as much knowledge as others for best suggestions. Last thought...Can you increase Prozac to at least 10 mg for a few days?
Just looked up Valium in my med book, there is an extended release capsule (15 mg), are you aware of that?
Stargazer
Posted by Phillipa on December 14, 2006, at 13:20:02
In reply to Re: I Did It Again and it 's My Fault/ No it isn't, posted by stargazer on December 14, 2006, at 13:13:28
Stargazer no I didn't know that. Since my 20's I've been on all the benzos. I think a lot is psychological? Yes I've tried all the SSRI's SNRI's nothing. I managed to stay on luvox for years but it didn't get me undepressed. Low dose. Love Phillipa ps thanks for caring
Posted by Dunder on December 14, 2006, at 13:23:05
In reply to Re: I Did It Again and it 's My Fault » saturn, posted by Phillipa on December 14, 2006, at 12:44:14
Phillipa, I can really relate to your feelings about sleep. I feel so frightened of the effects of not having enough sleep that I end up taking valerian and 5-HTP which helps me sleep but makes me sleep in late. I don't get to work till 11am (I work in a university so I can get away with that) but it makes me feel very guilty and abnormal that I get up so late. I wish I could change but when I don't have enough sleep my psychological problems are so much harder to deal with. So I can totally understand why you took the seroquel and Xanax. Maybe it is the fear of not having enough sleep that makes us take desperate action. Maybe we should accept that not having enough sleep is ok at times and our bodies will make us sleepy when we really need the rest.
I don't know if I am making any sense - I have had a couple of beers and I am feeling quite philosophical. Anyway please don't give yourself such a hard time. It really is understandable
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on December 14, 2006, at 14:09:48
In reply to I Did It Again and it 's My Fault, posted by Phillipa on December 14, 2006, at 12:08:31
Hey PJ!
Its not your fault! At all!! Everyone is different when it comes to sleeping patterns. Some people are morning people, some aren't. Some people are tall, some people are short. Its just the way it is!! Don't feel guilty about sleeping in - you're retired!! You've worked long and hard bringing up 3 kids, getting a nursing degree, being a good nurse....not to mention being an aerobics instructor!! So I think you deserve to lie in for whatever reason you feel like!
So, anyway you mention you started prozac? When I first started prozac I got bad insomnia. So it could be that perhaps.
Lots of love
Meri
Posted by blueberry1 on December 14, 2006, at 15:02:42
In reply to I Did It Again and it 's My Fault, posted by Phillipa on December 14, 2006, at 12:08:31
Jan, I feel so bad for you. I wish you could get a real good night's sleep. Whatever the case, it is absolutely not your fault. If there is a finger to be pointed at anyone, it is at the doctor. I think as much as they are paid, your doctor is at a point right now with you where he should be going the extra mile and really putting a serious effort into figuring out what is going on. Much more so than the average appointment.
Prozac causes insomnia, especially early in treatment. I always needed a sleep aid with it, whether it was remeron or zyprexa or ambien or whatever.
What drugs have you NOT tried? That is the place to look I think. Stuff like Depakote ER, remeron, whatever? Something that can calm the mind without having insomnia as a common side effect, and something that has a different mode of action from things you've tried.
Posted by ClearSkies on December 14, 2006, at 15:21:04
In reply to Re: I Did It Again and it 's My Fault » Phillipa, posted by blueberry1 on December 14, 2006, at 15:02:42
> Jan, I feel so bad for you. I wish you could get a real good night's sleep. Whatever the case, it is absolutely not your fault. If there is a finger to be pointed at anyone, it is at the doctor. I think as much as they are paid, your doctor is at a point right now with you where he should be going the extra mile and really putting a serious effort into figuring out what is going on. Much more so than the average appointment.
>
>I agree completely. I am only now realizing that my own pdoc is not looking at the whole picture of me - that anxiety and depression and insomnia and digestive woes and hair falling out and sweating - these are all going on in the same person! What I've seen happen is one prescription given that causes a severe side effect and then another prescription to counteract that, but then that causes another set of unwanted symptoms....
...and that what is really troubling us, what is really beneath the anxiety and insomnia and whatever, is forgotten, it feels like. I am lucky because right now I am good and angry with my pdoc for getting me to the awful state I'm currently in. I am scared, but I am going to find a new doctor and start again. Just thinking about it makes me want to cry. But I'll ask for my records to be transferred and hopefully will be able to go over my history to whoever the unfortunate sod is who will take me on as a patient.
Sorry for injecting my own rant and stuff... it really does feel that you and I are having some tough times now with sleep.
((((Phillipa))))
Posted by Maxime on December 14, 2006, at 16:23:33
In reply to I Did It Again and it 's My Fault, posted by Phillipa on December 14, 2006, at 12:08:31
There's no such thing as normal Phillipa. I haven't even slept yet. I've been awake for two days.
I can understand your frustration, but sometimes you act like you are the only person who is suffering. It could be a lot worse.
Maxime
> Something has to give I did it again. I couldn't sleep even on the 20mg of valium woke up in an hour had my husband give me 25mg of seroquel and took .5 I think of xanax . I'm not even dressed yet and feel like s*it. I want to be normal and normal people don't get up at ll am spaced out and starting 2.5mg of prozac feel worse. Also regulating thyroid. What is wrong with me and how to get over fear of anxiety that wakes me up. The day is over I've done nothing. I'm failing. Love Phillipa
Posted by saturn on December 14, 2006, at 17:25:14
In reply to Re: I Did It Again and it 's My Fault » saturn, posted by Phillipa on December 14, 2006, at 12:44:14
> Because I can't accept not sleeping like others and then sleep late. And I'm not giving myself to society in the role of worker or something.
You give plenty of yourself here
Posted by stargazer on December 14, 2006, at 19:28:14
In reply to Re: I Did It Again and it 's My Fault » Phillipa, posted by Maxime on December 14, 2006, at 16:23:33
I don't think you are being fair to Phillipa, we should all be able to come here and express ourselves freely without judgement. I would hate to think others here are judging who is suffering more or less. This is not a contest to judge level of one's suffering, we would all lose, that's why we are here. We all have lots of suffering, no one's is any better or worse than our own, even though in words it may seem like it. You would know from all of the postings here that one good day can turn into many bad days overnight.
Why do you say 'it could be a lot worse'? Who are you to judge that, some of your recent posts were also expressed in an 'urgent' light. Others might not have considered them 'urgent' but the best way to handle that is to refrain from posting a belittling or judgemental post to make them feel badly. That is uncalled for. It is obvious Phillipa feels badly enough.
Stargazer
Posted by Phillipa on December 14, 2006, at 20:12:06
In reply to Re: I Did It Again, posted by ClearSkies on December 14, 2006, at 15:21:04
First thanks stargazer. But Clear Skies I remember working and in a weeks time a patients medical card was two pages or even longer. Meds to counteract meds. Unbelieveable. Seriously a person comes in on one med and leaves on l0 no better than when they arrived lots of the time. The lucky ones are the ones who respond to a single med. But someone said on a thread that mostly treatment resistant people are here. But sometimes I wonder if only I had never swallowed that first ad. Or seen a pdoc? My first panic attack was treated by a GP our family had all used for years and the treatment was the same at the time. Is it my fault that in the 70's valium was what the docs prescribed? That's how docs make me feel now that it's my fault that somehow I prescribed for me. Go to the ER with a medical problem be honest in your current meds and immediately there is a social worker in the room. You must be a drug addict. Well for the people my age are there places we can all be together to change? Where if we feel scared or terrified or angry or whatever someone would talk to us and help us. No I know of no place unless you're extremely wealthy. It just makes me so angry. I was told to take higher doses of benzos I refused and now I'm taking to many according to protocol today. It just doesn't make sense to me. Love Phillipa the raving maniac.
Posted by elanor roosevelt on December 14, 2006, at 21:02:57
In reply to Re: I Did It Again » ClearSkies, posted by Phillipa on December 14, 2006, at 20:12:06
celexa or lexapro help me wake up okay in the morning
but i take knock-out pills to sleep
sleep quality on valium or xanax or such is not deep sleep -- is it?
do you take warm baths before you sleep?
helps get you out of your head and into your body
stop beating yourself upgood luck and sweet dreams
Posted by teejay on December 14, 2006, at 21:13:14
In reply to Re: I Did It Again » ClearSkies, posted by Phillipa on December 14, 2006, at 20:12:06
Hi phillipa,
felt really sad reading your posts recently. Been feeling really awful myself recently too, but I have to say you must try and stop beating yourself up about things. I do it all the time but it turns you into your own worst enemy sadly.
On the radio last night a scientist was explaining that REM sleep was everything and sleeping tablets just give us the illusion of sleep as we don't get genuine REM or restorative sleep. Maybe we should collectively bang our heads together and research on how to improve the amount of REM sleep we get?
A little trick I've learned. Put the radio on just quiet enough that you have to actually listen to it to hear it (ie a little concentration). I'm not sure of its mechanism of action but it does help you get to sleep.
Take care
TJ
Posted by Phillipa on December 14, 2006, at 21:49:48
In reply to Re: I Did It Again, posted by teejay on December 14, 2006, at 21:13:14
I'm sorry you're feeling badly yourself. Someone said that I should be on a true sleep med. They just prescribed temazapam for my Daugher. She worries me as she drinks wine each night with it. I asked my husband to hit me over the head with a baseball bat but he won't do it darn it. yes a campaign for good sleep meds. I do know one but can't have it anymore and don't want it it's not healthy chloral hydrate. Took a while to get off it never again. Love Phillipa
Posted by Quintal on December 14, 2006, at 22:26:23
In reply to I Did It Again and it 's My Fault, posted by Phillipa on December 14, 2006, at 12:08:31
Have you tried Ambien or Lunesta Phillipa? When I took benzos I still needed a sleep aid. As someone else suggested, you could try trazodone (which has antidepressant effects as well as being an effective sleep aid), or Remeron, trimipramine etc?
You are not to blame for taking the meds doctors told you to take - as you said, you refused to take the dose as high as they wanted you to in any case.
I was fully informed about the addictive nature of benzos before I started taking them, it is my fault I became addicted, but you were not aware of this problem when you first took them on the advice of your doctor Phillipa. It is *not* your fault that you are in this situation for taking drugs as the doctor prescribed. It's a shame on the medical profession that they are not doing more to help you.
>I think of xanax . I'm not even dressed yet and feel like s*it. I want to be normal and normal people don't get up at ll am spaced out and starting 2.5mg of prozac feel worse. Also regulating thyroid. What is wrong with me and how to get over fear of anxiety that wakes me up. The day is over I've done nothing. I'm failing. Love Phillipa
>Most of my days are like this and I'm 24. As other people have said you've worked hard all your life and now you've earned a rest - you're entitled to a 'lie in' in the morning if you feel like it!
Q
Posted by bipolarspectrum on December 14, 2006, at 22:52:12
In reply to I Did It Again and it 's My Fault, posted by Phillipa on December 14, 2006, at 12:08:31
Hi P,
I havent read all the other posts, but have u considered a mood stabilizer?? Depakote has helped my sleep significantly and my anxiety... Many of the other mood stabilizers can have similar effects... they are definately an option worth looking into, especially if your not responding to the regular antidepressants/benzos, etc...
bps
Posted by 10derHeart on December 14, 2006, at 23:06:17
In reply to Re: I Did It Again and it 's My Fault » Phillipa, posted by Maxime on December 14, 2006, at 16:23:33
> but sometimes you act like you are the only person who is suffering.
It's great to try to understand another poster's frustration, but at the same time, please be sensitive to their feelings by not posting things that could lead them to feel accused or put down.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Follow-ups regarding these issues should be directed to Admin and should of course be civil. Dr. Bob has oversight over deputy decisions, and he may choose a different action.
Respectfully,
10derHeart acting as deputy for Dr. Bob
Posted by 10derHeart on December 14, 2006, at 23:06:24
In reply to Re: I Did It Again and it 's My Fault?maxime, posted by stargazer on December 14, 2006, at 19:28:14
>>refrain from posting a belittling or judgemental post to make them feel badly.
I appreciate your intent here to post something supportive to Phillipa and the community as a whole, stargazer. Thank you for that.
But in order to abide by the rules here, it's usually best to stay away from characterizing posts negatively, so as not to cause the posters to feel accused or put down [as well].
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Follow-ups regarding these issues should be directed to Admin and should of course be civil. Dr. Bob has oversight over deputy decisions, and he may choose a different action.
Respectfully,
10derHeart, acting as deputy for Dr. Bob
Posted by Phillipa on December 14, 2006, at 23:12:51
In reply to Re: I Did It Again and it 's My Fault, posted by bipolarspectrum on December 14, 2006, at 22:52:12
No I haven't looked into Depakote although Scott mentioned it the other day. I did get to 50mg of lamictal liked it but got an uncommon side effect of excess salivation couldn't deal with the spitting disgusting. I was on trileptal at l50mg stopped it cause of the expense. What do you think of trileptal?Think I still have a few in my big box of meds. Love Phillipa
Posted by UgottaHaveHope on December 14, 2006, at 23:24:16
In reply to Re: I Did It Again and it 's My Fault » bipolarspectrum, posted by Phillipa on December 14, 2006, at 23:12:51
Please, Jan, please continue to share what is going on with your life. That is what this board is for. As you can see, there are plenty of people that want to help you.
Posted by Phillipa on December 14, 2006, at 23:26:09
In reply to Re: This board is for expressing yourself, posted by UgottaHaveHope on December 14, 2006, at 23:24:16
Michael you're a sweetie. Love Phillipa
Posted by MidnightBlue on December 15, 2006, at 0:08:54
In reply to Re: I Did It Again » ClearSkies, posted by Phillipa on December 14, 2006, at 20:12:06
I took Valium in the 70s and in the 80s at least part of the time. It helped migraine headaches and helped counter agitation from high doses of Wellbutrin. I never took Xanax or Antivan. The only benzo type drug I take now is Ambien. I can live without it, I just don't sleep.
If you want to go off Valium, I think you can. It will just be a long slow process. I still think your thyroid is your main problem. Hang in there!
MB
Posted by saturn on December 15, 2006, at 7:40:11
In reply to I Did It Again and it 's My Fault, posted by Phillipa on December 14, 2006, at 12:08:31
Phillipa have you ever tried Remeron?
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