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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by snapper on July 1, 2006, at 4:23:13
what does one do in the case of constant "what if and only if" rumination most of the "crap" that happened to me and came about me, came in 97' through 2003' It was legal stuff and very close to my heart...for I was being sued by investors, losing my business, living in severe anxiety depression and I was in a position of no way out. I started and created a business that for many years was very successful and then all s&iT hit the fan fgor many reasons. I ended up broke, legally screwed in aspects of things I did and did NOT do hopeless, helpless, and very depressed that I would never end up in my field of business ever again. My self esteem is none the less shattered. Ch 7 Bankruptcy was really the only option out . I also to this day am fighting a legal issue that should have been put to bed 6 to 7 years ago. I am sick of the what ifs and what ifI did this or that. Especially since I have intrusive and very ruminative, OCD thoughts and feelings...I am sick of thinking and going throught the same stuff hr by hr day by day and the dr.s therapists and what not just don't know what to do with me. Does anyone have any real good suggestions or advice for a circular thinker like me. I find it very hard to go on when everything seems to be a "triggr" no wonder I am not getting any better and I feel shame , sad, shameful, regretful, and at times, suicidal....Damn I have been on all the meds. I feel like I am bankrupt, phisically, morally, spiritually, and least but last financially. What to do.? I live each day in semi-conciousness of well maybe "it" will go away... it wont. I have a ghost I created and it will not go away.
Snapper
Posted by Phillipa on July 1, 2006, at 12:26:48
In reply to Rumination-----, posted by snapper on July 1, 2006, at 4:23:13
Snapper I'm so sorry. It's a horrible disease. Love Phillipa
Posted by Jost on July 1, 2006, at 13:02:28
In reply to Rumination-----, posted by snapper on July 1, 2006, at 4:23:13
That sounds terrible. I know some SSRIs are used with OCD or excessive rumination. I'll try to look it up.
Also Cognitive Behavior Therapy is very helpful.
I've know three people in my life who've gone through business failures and this is a horribly demoralizing, and even devastating, experience.
Please try (if you can) to forgive yourself. There are many many factors in business success or loss outside the control of the person who owns the business. Esp. now in the US, there are economic pressures and changes that have upended many people's lives, by radically restructuring the business environment.
There's a book I have somewhere on coping with excessive rumination. I'll also look for that today. My CBTherapist recommended it.
Jost
Posted by Squiggles on July 1, 2006, at 20:56:53
In reply to Rumination-----, posted by snapper on July 1, 2006, at 4:23:13
Never having a yearn for business success,
myself, I have never been in your position.
However I sympathize with the tremendous
stress you must be experiencing. Losses
of this type are very stressful. I have
experienced one loss in academia (among others), which may very well have resulted in PTSD and then
bipolar/anxiety.I wonder if you have not become so involved
and obsessed in your business to begin with,
as part of your temperament, and now it's
not helping at all.Practically, I would say don't look back,
and get a financial advisor or counsellor
to help you through.Then, maybe reconsider a less volatile
occupation.Just my 2 cents.
Squiggles
Posted by Racer on July 2, 2006, at 0:17:59
In reply to Rumination-----, posted by snapper on July 1, 2006, at 4:23:13
Hey! When you look in the mirror, do you see me?
Seriously, though, I'm just now finding some relief from my own negative ruminations. It's kinda sorta miraculous, really, and surprisingly I just noticed today that it's much better! Just suddenly noticed that I didn't feel nauseous, and frightened, and generally miserable, and tried to figure out what was different. Oh. Yeah. None of the horrible negative ruminations! Whoohoo!
Now, it's not perfect, there are some still there, but not nearly as intrusive, and they're bringing only about half the shame and fear with them now.
I think it's the Buspar kicking in, and I'm pleased about it. Benzos never helped me, and often made me MORE franticly anxious. This is a very friendly drug for me, it's working (after about four weeks now, I think?) and only having one very slight side effect for me, which is sleepiness. There is a down side -- with the anxiety coming under control, the depression is much more apparent -- but this is so much better than it was! If you haven't tried Buspar, it might be worth a shot.
Otherwise, what has helped you in the past? If you haven't tried some of the SSRIs, it's worth giving them a fair shot.
Also, truly, therapy is going to do some good, too. And maybe discussing with an attorney whether your current disabling mental health issues might protect you from the legal troubles. It may not, but it's still worth asking. (If need be, you could also apply for disability. It would show that you're not just making up an excuse.)
Good luck, and I hope that helps.
Posted by Jost on July 2, 2006, at 14:29:14
In reply to Rumination-----, posted by snapper on July 1, 2006, at 4:23:13
Hi again. This is he title and author of the book I mentioned.
Title: Stop Obsessing: How to Overcome Your Obsessions and Compulsions
Author: Foa, Eda B, And Foa, Edna, And Wilson, Reid
Publisher: Bantam Books
Yr. Published: 1991I bought it for only a few dollars (second hand) through one of the online bookstores. Maybe reading it would help a little.
Some of it focuses on OCD. There are also sections on working with ruminations that don't involve obsessive actions--those were the most relevant for me, and probably would be for you, also.
Jost
Posted by Racer on July 2, 2006, at 15:48:26
In reply to Re: Rumination----- » snapper, posted by Jost on July 2, 2006, at 14:29:14
>
> Title: "Stop Obsessing: How to Overcome Your Obsessions and Compulsions"
> Author: Foa, Eda B, And Foa, Edna, And Wilson, Reid
> Publisher: Bantam Books
> Yr. Published: 1991
>
>If you enclose the title in two sets of double quotes, you'll get a link to the title at Amazon. It's great, although it's also voluntary. Just thought I'd post a reminder of the system...
Posted by Jost on July 2, 2006, at 20:32:32
In reply to Double Double Quotes (reminder) » Jost, posted by Racer on July 2, 2006, at 15:48:26
Posted by fuchsia on July 4, 2006, at 9:53:10
In reply to Re: Rumination----- » snapper, posted by Racer on July 2, 2006, at 0:17:59
Racer, I was asking my pdoc about Buspar only a few weeks ago as I'm very bothered by social phobia now. Do you think it might help with social phobia?
The only thing my pdoc could say about it was that it tended to be used for a period of several months only. Do you know why this might be and did your doctor say the same thing?
Snapper I do so relate to your post re the ruminations although my failings and losses are not in the business area. I cannot stop going over and over the 'if only this' and 'if only that' all the way back through my life until about the age of thirteen.
If Buspar could help with either the ruminations or the social phobia I would love to try it. It seems to be very expensive where I live which is odd because I thought it was being used to stop cats from spraying urine. Maybe that was in the UK though and not here.
fuchsia
Posted by Racer on July 4, 2006, at 14:32:06
In reply to Re: Rumination-snapper » Racer, posted by fuchsia on July 4, 2006, at 9:53:10
> Racer, I was asking my pdoc about Buspar only a few weeks ago as I'm very bothered by social phobia now. Do you think it might help with social phobia?
It seems as though Buspar is one of those drugs that helps some people, but not everyone. I'm glad it helps me -- especially because benzos make things worse for me. If it helps you with anxiety, then I'd expect it would help with social anxiety.
>
> The only thing my pdoc could say about it was that it tended to be used for a period of several months only. Do you know why this might be and did your doctor say the same thing?No, I've never heard that before. I'd only heard of it being used long term, the way antidepressants are. {shrug} I don't know what to tell you about that.
Posted by Squiggles on July 4, 2006, at 14:44:53
In reply to Re: Rumination-snapper » fuchsia, posted by Racer on July 4, 2006, at 14:32:06
> > Racer, I was asking my pdoc about Buspar only a few weeks ago as I'm very bothered by social phobia now. Do you think it might help with social phobia?
>
> It seems as though Buspar is one of those drugs that helps some people, but not everyone. I'm glad it helps me -- especially because benzos make things worse for me. If it helps you with anxiety, then I'd expect it would help with social anxiety.
> >
> > The only thing my pdoc could say about it was that it tended to be used for a period of several months only. Do you know why this might be and did your doctor say the same thing?
>
> No, I've never heard that before. I'd only heard of it being used long term, the way antidepressants are. {shrug} I don't know what to tell you about that.
>
>Just a postscript here, that buspirone is
not a benzodiazepine (you probably know that)
it is an azaspirodecanedione-- somewhere between
benzos and neuroleptics:http://www.mentalhealth.com/drug/p30-b03.html
It is used as an anxiolytic however and may
actually be superiour for phobia.On the other hand, it seems to carry more
serious risks in interactions with other drugs,
and medical conditions:see:
http://www.drugs.com/buspar.html
That may be why the dr. is hesitant to
give it more than 6 months.I think that benzos too can have bad interactions
with underlying medical conditions -- like
liver failure -- and with other drugs (potentiating respiratory or cardiac rhythm for
example) but I think this buspirone looks
dangerous.Squiggles
Posted by Racer on July 4, 2006, at 22:17:12
In reply to Re: Rumination-snapper » Racer, posted by Squiggles on July 4, 2006, at 14:44:53
>
> > It seems as though Buspar is one of those drugs that helps some people, but not everyone. I'm glad it helps me -- especially because benzos make things worse for me. If it helps you with anxiety, then I'd expect it would help with social anxiety.
>
>
> Just a postscript here, that buspirone is
> not a benzodiazepineI was trying to say that I'm glad it works for me, since it's not in the class of drugs that don't work for me.
Thanks for the references, though.
Posted by snapper on July 5, 2006, at 2:26:52
In reply to Re: Rumination-snapper, posted by Racer on July 4, 2006, at 22:17:12
Hey all, thanks for all of your responces , Ideas and helpful suggestion. They are kind and sincere.I know that. As far as getting into a different line of work, that part is basically impossible for many factors. Plus my brain just could not keep up with the frenetic pace of what I had and did in the eighties and early to mid nineties.... I am at this point being forced to make the best of it by hoping HUD will hopefully call me and say ...YES to my need. I am fortunate that I already have a very nice place in which to live with my sister...but all of my SSI goes to my half of the rent. Utilities are extra, of course.... My social anxiety plays a very significant part in what I can do or not do, and of course there is the issue of trying to work and feel worth while for a dollar to SSI basis and try to reintergrate in to a dollar worth while per amount of stress put out situation ( hope that makes sense) My illness has changed me in so many ways. I do realize that there are a lot of others out there who have things worse, maybe much,much worse and some who seem to have it just right... I am just looking to be stable in meds, money, life, social, love......yada ,yada, yada, I really feel it is out there and attainable. I think I have had it before even if I was in an up to my neck stress situation. I atleast had the monetary means to help offset some of the not so obvious wants, needs, and desires.....Now I continue to be all to stressed about things that 5 to 7 years ago were major and are now becoming to frution and going to hopfulley be behind me. I am now rambling--sorry. I do ruminate about how life used to be.... my triggers are everywhere. They say God truly does answer prayers. I need a lot of answers. I wish it were possible to be able to even be possible an a Med or at least a small combo of meds that would help the Major core features of Deprssion/Anxiety and BI-POLAR symtomologies---sadly----death is always lurking around hidden corners. Any and all positive and or negative ideas and or comments are surely welcome!
Thanks for listening - and reading
Bless you all
Snapper
Posted by snapper on July 5, 2006, at 4:14:58
In reply to Re: Rumination----- » snapper, posted by Squiggles on July 1, 2006, at 20:56:53
> I wonder if you have not become so involved
> and obsessed in your business to begin with,
> as part of your temperament, and now it's
> not helping at all.
>
Hey Squiggles, thanks for the reply and I am sorry for you academia loss(s) it all hurts. I ran my business very "to a "T" and even my old Pdoc....Said to me that I was tooo obsessive to be in the kind of business I was in. I have been in it for half of my 39 years... plus 4 or 5 years of my life....how, at this late date even begin to think of anything else? Especially when I do not have the cognitive and memory skills to even consider retraining my brain for a different kind of carreer. Sometimes I really feel f9*c#D!I still have an ideal of my old profession but it has changed sooo much in the last 6 to seven years and is so much more competitive. I just don't see how I could compete. Especially when I was litterally the origional in this biz in my major metro city!! Yes there is a lot of other legal garbage that is and was intertwined with my ultimate professional, personal and business demise. I have prayed and prayed and asked for grace and redemption and here I am. Broke and still very anxious and depressed......and on and on...... God said he had a plan for me....I am sorry that I continue to post and ramble.....I just don't get it. Getting out of bed everyday to take meds that usually don't give much help , is just to exist to exist. Taking space up on this -what I used to think Beautiful big opportunistic planet- I have been robbed by this illness. Some are by my own hand and others are out of my control.I guess all I can do is all I can do!!
Snapper
Posted by Squiggles on July 5, 2006, at 7:31:18
In reply to Re: Rumination----- » Squiggles, posted by snapper on July 5, 2006, at 4:14:58
Life is difficult enough without
having depression to cope with.
A lot of people are under stress
these days, and recently I read on
BBC or CNN that more and more people
have nobody to confide in about their
problems.I think the net helps - thanks Dr. Bob-
it's a good idea under these days of
alienation and social turmoil.Stay out of trouble and listen to your doc. :-)
Squiggles
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 5, 2006, at 22:02:46
In reply to Double Double Quotes (reminder) » Jost, posted by Racer on July 2, 2006, at 15:48:26
Posted by fuchsia on July 6, 2006, at 7:01:16
In reply to Re: Rumination-snapper » Racer, posted by Squiggles on July 4, 2006, at 14:44:53
Thanks for your thoughts, Racer and Squiggles.
Racer, I hope the Buspar continues to work for you. Benzodiazapines are not for me either; they stopped working after a year and then withdrawing from them was traumatic.
>
> Just a postscript here, that buspirone is
> not a benzodiazepine (you probably know that)
> it is an azaspirodecanedione-- somewhere between
> benzos and neuroleptics:
>
> http://www.mentalhealth.com/drug/p30-b03.htmlThat's interesting.
>
> It is used as an anxiolytic however and may
> actually be superiour for phobia.
>
> On the other hand, it seems to carry more
> serious risks in interactions with other drugs,
> and medical conditions:
>
> see:
>
> http://www.drugs.com/buspar.html
>
> That may be why the dr. is hesitant to
> give it more than 6 months.
>
> I think that benzos too can have bad interactions
> with underlying medical conditions -- like
> liver failure -- and with other drugs (potentiating respiratory or cardiac rhythm for
> example) but I think this buspirone looks
> dangerous.From where I am sitting everything looks dangerous (but maybe that's just the anxiety). Anything that could upset the dopamine balance makes me particularly nervous as I have a particular fear of extrapyramidal symptoms. I do need something to add to my Lamictal though.
fuchsia
This is the end of the thread.
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