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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by fuchsia on October 18, 2005, at 23:58:42
In reply to Anyone else find the walls interesting?, posted by Maxime on October 16, 2005, at 23:14:27
> Has anyone else had this kind of depression? What got you out of it?
I've had that kind of depression (but without the cutting impulse). When people say a job will help I don't think they understand how physical it is.
I just pop out of it sort of randomly but predictably because I'm rapid cycling. I wish I could suggest something useful.
If there is any sunlight I do sometimes drag myself out onto a blanket and sit on it for half and hour.
Posted by Maxime on October 19, 2005, at 12:05:48
In reply to Re: Anyone else find the walls interesting?, posted by Phillipa on October 17, 2005, at 18:56:21
I'm glad you made it.
Usually I can force myself. Push and push and push. But this time I have no push left. I have tried and I keep landing on my face. If I do have moments where I can get stuff done it's sending out resumes.
But no bites yet. I don't even think I can handle a job right now. But usually it's the one thing that keeps me going.
If I could eat a bit more it would help. But that's easier said that done.
It's really bad.
Hugs,
Maxime
> Maxime, I've been out of town. And I see nothing has changed. I was forced to be in the "real world" for 5 days. And it wasn't easy and I had to take more valium to sleep at night. But I had to get up as we will be moving and I had to get furniture and pretend to my Daughter That I was still functional. And she's going through a divorce and living in same house with husband. Talk about stress. But I made it and from knowing you and your volunteer work from the past. Could you try and do something like that again? How about a crisis line from home? Just an idea. Talk is cheap. I should be doing the same thing. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Maxime on October 19, 2005, at 12:08:04
In reply to Get a pet from a shelter, posted by Camille Dumont on October 17, 2005, at 19:25:44
> Sounds silly but it worked wonders for me. It forces me to get up and go to work because they need me. While I have yet to find a reason to live for me, in the interim, they are my reason to keep going on. Pets are also fun to watch, are happy most of the time and ready to play with you or just cuddle with you whenever you want.
It's not silly at all. In fact I do have a pet but had to leave her with my mother when I moved. No pets allowed for now. She is a lovely lab and I miss her so much. Hopefully I will be able to get her back again soon.
Pets have been proven to help with depression and anxiety.
Maxime
Posted by Maxime on October 19, 2005, at 12:11:10
In reply to Re: Anyone else find the walls interesting?, posted by med_empowered on October 18, 2005, at 3:59:50
Thanks. You make a lot sense. This will be very hard for me as I am my own critic. I have zero self-esteem.
But you have given me some actual things I can try. I have never believed that meds are the answer ... especially when they never work.
Thanks again.
Maxime
> I guess...you could first accept what you're feeling. Fighting it--thinking "oh, I shouldn't be doing/feeling this" or "I **should** be doing/feeling this"--is only going to make things worse. Then, try to divert your attention--to TV at first, maybe later reading, writing, etc. Then try to focus on what it is in your life you *do* like--what your value are, what your personal strengths are, what your goals are. Try to focus on those, and creating an existence that kind of conforms to those (ex: i like kids--pursue training in childcare). Reach out to other people--it may be hard at first, but social interaction is **vitally** important, and the more engaged you can get with other people then (eventually) the better you'll feel. I find that one thing that helps is to flip the question around. For instance...instead of "I want to kill myself" (and I think we've ALL thought that one a bunch of times), I try to ask myself "why HAVEN'T I killed myself?" Its like the logotherapy technique..figure out what's important to you, whats keeping you going, and then try to work on accentuating that instead of foucsing on your pain. Also, like I said..sometimes, for me at least, its best to accept a certain amount of suffering; I find that, increasingly, the best thing (again, this is for **me**) is to focus not so much on **feeling** better but on **doing** better. So...I can focus on being more productive, or being more assertive, or accomplishing goal X...whatever. It engages my mind, produces results (which boosts mood and self-esteem), and jumpstarts the healing process for my underlying problem. For some people, having the right med(s) is important, but its also important to remember that human suffering and misery has been around for as long as people have existed. Prozac, valium, adderall--these are all **very** recent arrivals on the scene. They can make things easier, but the meds aren't going to really "fix" anything--its best to put faith in one's self, not one's prescriptions. Good luck!
Posted by Maxime on October 19, 2005, at 12:13:55
In reply to Re: Anyone else find the walls interesting? » Maxime, posted by tecknohed on October 18, 2005, at 7:53:45
Thanks for the ideas. I feel worse than I did two days ago. I feel more like a failure. I feel really weak physically which is from limiting my food intake. It's really all my fault. I shouldn't even be complaining. I have brought it all on upon myself.
Maxime
> In drug rehab, they taught us many tricks and methods for dealing with depression, alot of which involved starting with very basic stuff.
> One of these that works for me (when in your situation) is to choose a colour, and glance around the room counting as many objects in that colour as I can find. Repeat with other colours/shapes. Even though it seems ridiculous and pointless at first, the distraction can help to refocus your thoughts and bring your mind to the present. I think there's also a theory that the eye movements help to stimulate parts of the brain too.(?) Anyway, I've often found this enough to snap me outa that trance - its all about 'starting the ball rolling'.
>
> Another thing that has worked for me (and others I think) when feeling like you do, is to skip sleep for a night. Might sound hard to do if you're tired, but when you get your 'second wake' its surprising how refreshing you can feel, with results sometimes lasting many days.
>
> Finally, about something else you mention, heres a link you might like to read:
>
> http://www.palace.net/~llama/psych/self.html
>
> Well, I hope find some relief soon. It was 2 days ago you first posted, how do you feel now?
>
> Teck.
Posted by Maxime on October 19, 2005, at 12:19:49
In reply to Re: Anyone else find the walls interesting? » Maxime, posted by 4wd on October 18, 2005, at 22:28:08
Last week there were tons of tears. Now I am not crying at all anymore. I don't feel anything. My face is void of expression.
But as I responded to some posts prior to yours, I realised that this is all my fault. I am restricting my food too much so naturally my depression is going to get worse. I have no energy.
I stopped taking my AD 3 days ago but have remained on the mood stabiliser because I will go through withdrawal.
And I keep thinking that it CAN'T get any worse. But you know what? It can and it does. So I don't know how far down the black I am going to go. I would like to stop now please.
Maxime
> Oh Maxime, I am so sorry you are feeling this way. There is a poem by Coleridge that kind of describes it "Dejection: An Ode" or maybe "Ode to Dejection"
>
> Do you ever get to the point of feeling so horrible that you cry uncontrollably? Sometimes that helps me. To just let go, feel as horrible as I possibly can, think I can't go on, surrender to it and let it have me and think I can't bear it. After an hour or so of weeping (and praying) I will drag myself up from the floor, make myself take a shower and realize I have found some small measure of relief. I'm not there right now , I"m feeling okay at this moment but that has worked a little bit in the past.
>
> How do you think you would feel if you were on no meds? Could you feel worse than you do? Starting with a clean slate and all that? Shock the system? I don't know. I don't have the experience that others here have with meds - I can only offer empathy and share in your sorrow.
>
> Love,
> Marsha
>
>
Posted by Maxime on October 19, 2005, at 12:25:18
In reply to Re: Anyone else find the walls interesting?, posted by CK1 on October 17, 2005, at 0:04:42
I wrote a long post to you but accidently checked off "no message" ... moron. I can't even re-write it now. I don't remember what I wrote.
All I know is that I have tried to get "any"
job and no one will hire me. I have dummed down my resume for them and still they say I am overqualified. Then I use my regular resume and I can't find a job. I can't take it!Maxime
> Maxime,
>
> You seriously need to find a way to get back on Adderall XR. That would help with the apathy, boredom, and possibly the depression. FORCE YOURSELF to get a job, no matter what kind of job it is. You need to work so you can pay for your meds! There are lots of depressed people who are going to work. In my case, I get more depressed when I'm not doing anything. I am taking a full courseload in college and, if I wasn't doing that, I'd feel totally worthless! Maybe if you were employed again and making a little money, you'd actually feel better because you didn't have as much time to sit around and think about your depression. If you have nothing else to think about besides your depression, that's not going to help things. Obviously, nothings going to help except the right meds, but you at least need to try to "get out there" and start living! Easier said than done.............
> BTW, Your posts really make me feel bad for you. I wish I could give you med advice from my limited knowledge, but you said you've tried every single drug out there. I think you need to stop trying to rely on meds as the "only answer" and try to incorporate some form of "therapy/will power/?" into your recovery.
> I hate seeing people suffer! And I hate suffering myself too :)
Posted by ed_uk on October 19, 2005, at 13:42:37
In reply to side track » ed_uk, posted by tecknohed on October 18, 2005, at 18:36:06
Hi!
Did you drink alcohol to self-medicate your social anxiety?
~Ed
Posted by ed_uk on October 19, 2005, at 13:43:42
In reply to Re: Anyone else find the walls interesting? » tecknohed, posted by Maxime on October 19, 2005, at 12:13:55
Hi Maxie,
Have you called your old pdoc yet to ask which meds he will help you to import?
~ed xxx
Posted by CK1 on October 19, 2005, at 13:50:08
In reply to Re: Anyone else find the walls interesting? » CK1, posted by Maxime on October 19, 2005, at 12:25:18
Hey Maxime,
That's really dissapointing about the job thing. Maybe you can work from you home -- start an ebay business or something. ha! But you really need to find a way to make money so you can buy Adderall as it will at least help you get motivated. If you've been on stimulants long-term and suddenly stop taking them, of course you're going to get depressed. Of course it's not going to 'cure' your depression, but it will get you out of this dark pit you're in.
My new doctor whom I saw for the first time last week thinks meds can work for everyone. He's a very optimistic guy and uses these complex combos routinely to help people that don't respond to traditional therapy. It's a shame you tend to lactate on so many meds that could really help your condition! If Prozac and Parnate both worked for you for some time and then pooped out, that's an obvious sign of some "recurring depression/bipolar spectrum" disorder going on, which can be very difficult to treat. Maxime, here's me advice:
1) Find a way to get back on Addy - it will get you back on your feet
2) Find a way to generate 'any' income, either through your home or elsewhere. I know it's almost impossible with your depression (I understand) but not being able to buy anything (meds, food, etc) will only make things worse
3) Find the best pdoc you can find -- someone who specializes in treatment resistant depression. A great pdoc is worth sooo much.Maxime, with the medications out nowadays, very very few people suffer for their entire lives. It may take awhile to find something that works, but I know something will for you even though you don't think so. The fact that Prozac and Parnate helped you means that they can be re-activated if you throw in the right augmentation. The anorexia thing makes things extra complicated though and might be part of the reason why you aren't responding to meds.
Make an appt with a GREAT pdoc. I'd recommend Dr. Donald Klein or Dr. Leibovitz, both of whom are in New York. They are two of the most respected pyschiatrists in the field but cost an arm and a leg, around $700 for the first session!
Take control of your situation and do whatever you can to make it better. Sitting around is the worst thing you can do for depression, I have found.
Posted by Maxime on October 19, 2005, at 14:09:54
In reply to Re: Anyone else find the walls interesting? » Maxime, posted by ed_uk on October 19, 2005, at 13:43:42
> Hi Maxie,
>
> Have you called your old pdoc yet to ask which meds he will help you to import?
>
> ~ed xxxHe's away now and won't be back for 2 weeks. It doesn't matter. Nothing is going to help.
xoxo
Maxime
Posted by Maxime on October 19, 2005, at 14:18:51
In reply to Re: Anyone else find the walls interesting?, posted by CK1 on October 19, 2005, at 13:50:08
Thanks. I have $4 what can I do with $4? I could never afford $700 U.S. dollars to see a doctor. Never. I have to apply for social assistance(welfare)which will be about $600 a month. Every day something else goes wrong. If I don't get on Welfare I won't be able to pay the rent on the 1st, not that it matters.
I haven't been on the Adderall since January so the depression is not from not being on it. I had only been on it for about 5 months. Yes, I think it could help, but I can't get it.
I know you are trying to help, but right now, none of it is feasible. Thanks for caring though. I do appreciate it.
Maxime
> Hey Maxime,
>
> That's really dissapointing about the job thing. Maybe you can work from you home -- start an ebay business or something. ha! But you really need to find a way to make money so you can buy Adderall as it will at least help you get motivated. If you've been on stimulants long-term and suddenly stop taking them, of course you're going to get depressed. Of course it's not going to 'cure' your depression, but it will get you out of this dark pit you're in.
> My new doctor whom I saw for the first time last week thinks meds can work for everyone. He's a very optimistic guy and uses these complex combos routinely to help people that don't respond to traditional therapy. It's a shame you tend to lactate on so many meds that could really help your condition! If Prozac and Parnate both worked for you for some time and then pooped out, that's an obvious sign of some "recurring depression/bipolar spectrum" disorder going on, which can be very difficult to treat. Maxime, here's me advice:
> 1) Find a way to get back on Addy - it will get you back on your feet
> 2) Find a way to generate 'any' income, either through your home or elsewhere. I know it's almost impossible with your depression (I understand) but not being able to buy anything (meds, food, etc) will only make things worse
> 3) Find the best pdoc you can find -- someone who specializes in treatment resistant depression. A great pdoc is worth sooo much.
>
> Maxime, with the medications out nowadays, very very few people suffer for their entire lives. It may take awhile to find something that works, but I know something will for you even though you don't think so. The fact that Prozac and Parnate helped you means that they can be re-activated if you throw in the right augmentation. The anorexia thing makes things extra complicated though and might be part of the reason why you aren't responding to meds.
>
> Make an appt with a GREAT pdoc. I'd recommend Dr. Donald Klein or Dr. Leibovitz, both of whom are in New York. They are two of the most respected pyschiatrists in the field but cost an arm and a leg, around $700 for the first session!
>
> Take control of your situation and do whatever you can to make it better. Sitting around is the worst thing you can do for depression, I have found.
Posted by ed_uk on October 19, 2005, at 14:27:56
In reply to Re: Anyone else find the walls interesting?, posted by Maxime on October 19, 2005, at 14:18:51
Hi Maxie,
>I have $4 what can I do with $4?
You can buy some generic fluoxetine (Prozac). It's very inexpensive, at least it is in the UK. If you start tapering the Parnate now you'll be able to start fluoxetine in a few weeks.
Love Ed xx
Posted by emme on October 19, 2005, at 15:52:28
In reply to Anyone else find the walls interesting?, posted by Maxime on October 16, 2005, at 23:14:27
Hi Maxime,
This may be an overly simplistic suggestion, but does caffeine do anything for you?
I hope you're able to eat a little more too.emme
Posted by Maxime on October 19, 2005, at 18:10:31
In reply to Re: Anyone else find the walls interesting? » Maxime, posted by ed_uk on October 19, 2005, at 14:27:56
Hey Ed, our med dispensing system is different than in the UK. We pay full price for our meds. They are cheaper than in the U.S., but for $4 I wouldn't be able to get any Prozac, generic or otherwise. :-(
Maxie
> Hi Maxie,
>
> >I have $4 what can I do with $4?
>
> You can buy some generic fluoxetine (Prozac). It's very inexpensive, at least it is in the UK. If you start tapering the Parnate now you'll be able to start fluoxetine in a few weeks.
>
> Love Ed xx
Posted by Maxime on October 19, 2005, at 18:12:51
In reply to Re: Anyone else find the walls interesting? » Maxime, posted by emme on October 19, 2005, at 15:52:28
> Hi Maxime,
>
> This may be an overly simplistic suggestion, but does caffeine do anything for you?
> I hope you're able to eat a little more too.
>
> emme
>It takes a lot of caffeine to get a boost. I have also been known to abuse it for weight loss purposes.
But your idea was a good one. :-)
Rhapsody
Posted by Phillipa on October 19, 2005, at 18:30:56
In reply to Re: Anyone else find the walls interesting? » emme, posted by Maxime on October 19, 2005, at 18:12:51
Maxie, Who the heck is Rapsody? Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Maxime on October 19, 2005, at 20:45:19
In reply to Re: Anyone else find the walls interesting? » Maxime, posted by Phillipa on October 19, 2005, at 18:30:56
> Maxie, Who the heck is Rapsody? Fondly, Phillipa
A large typo ... sorry.
Maxime
Posted by tecknohed on October 20, 2005, at 2:05:12
In reply to Re: side track » tecknohed, posted by ed_uk on October 19, 2005, at 13:42:37
> Hi!
>
> Did you drink alcohol to self-medicate your social anxiety?
>
> ~EdHi mate
I used amphetamines mainly as an attempt to control SP. I ended up taking it every day (high doses, base) which had the opposite effect, and then some! When I gave up I started drinking, socially at first but not for long. I virtually became a hermit, only leaving the house for drink (@16 cans beer/day). So no, I didn't use drink to cope with SP. I used it to blank the world out.
Still, HAPPY DAYS! (-:
Kev
Posted by tecknohed on October 20, 2005, at 4:14:41
In reply to Re: Anyone else find the walls interesting? » tecknohed, posted by Maxime on October 19, 2005, at 12:13:55
> Thanks for the ideas. I feel worse than I did two days ago. I feel more like a failure. I feel really weak physically which is from limiting my food intake. It's really all my fault. I shouldn't even be complaining. I have brought it all on upon myself.
>
> Maxime
>
I'm sorry you feel so bad. YOUR ILLNESS IS NOT YOUR FAULT. YOU'RE NOT A FAILURE. If anything its the world thats failed you! YOU DESERVE TO BE HAPPY. Hang in there, try to be patient. It will pass. THINGS WILL GET BETTER! Talk to someone. Keep talking to us. Talk to me if you like - my babblemails always on.Take care of yourself.
Kev.
Posted by ed_uk on October 20, 2005, at 14:19:57
In reply to Re: Anyone else find the walls interesting? » ed_uk, posted by Maxime on October 19, 2005, at 18:10:31
Hi Maxie,
>We pay full price for our meds.
I know........ but generic fluoxetine is very cheap. In the UK, 30 fluoxetine 20mg capsules cost about £1.50 (trade price). On a private (full price) prescription, the customer would pay about £4. All NHS prescriptions cost £6.50.
In the last few years, the price of generic fluoxetine has dropped, dropped, dropped, dropped........ it's now the cheapest AD in the UK, cheaper than any of the TCAs.
Love Ed xx
Posted by ed_uk on October 20, 2005, at 14:21:37
In reply to Re: side track » ed_uk, posted by tecknohed on October 20, 2005, at 2:05:12
Hi K,
I guess you got paranoid on the high dose of amphetamine?
~Ed
Posted by tecknohed on October 20, 2005, at 21:37:18
In reply to Re: side track » tecknohed, posted by ed_uk on October 20, 2005, at 14:21:37
> Hi K,
>
> I guess you got paranoid on the high dose of amphetamine?
>
> ~EdYes, and very agoraphobic. The physical deterioration got continually bad too. Add to that I was a chronic pot smoker at the time. Paranoia + paranoia. Bad mix. Asking for trouble. I was a silly boy. But despirate.
You ever dabbled?
Regards.
Kev
Posted by Declan on October 20, 2005, at 22:15:26
In reply to Re: side track » ed_uk, posted by tecknohed on October 20, 2005, at 21:37:18
Hey teckno, you might enjoy "Spun". It's a film, not a book, very funny US film about people taking far too much speed.
Declan
Posted by Declan on October 20, 2005, at 22:16:55
In reply to Re: side track » tecknohed, posted by Declan on October 20, 2005, at 22:15:26
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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