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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by portage on June 7, 2005, at 18:26:28
I don't know if these are panic attacks--I don't know if it's dissociation...I've head the term "cognitive slippage", and that seems like the best way to describe it. It doesn't start with a conscious thought...and there are no external cues I'm aware of that precipitate it. It starts with a vague feeling of a slowing of time. I'm not scared at this point, I just feel...dreamy. Things seem to move in slow motion. Within moments my throte tightens and my arms tingle. I just feel strange. Within about another minute, I become terribly confused- my thoughts, my senses seem all out of sync. For example, this happened this afternoon, I was driving, and when I started to feel confused I pulled over. I stuck three xanax under my tongue. I watched the cars passing me, but did hear the "vroooom" they made as they passed until they were nearly out of sight. Does this make sense? it was soo surreal. My leg muscles were twitching, and all my limbs felt numb and tingly. I had a weird rash across my chest and neck, I felt nauseous. I couldn't stop holding my breath- it was awful just trying to take a breath, it was like i had to concentrate soo intensely just to do that. I had to concentrate SO INTENSELY just to will my hand to move to turn off my engine, my body felt like it wasnt mine, I knew how absurd that was but it felt so real. I curled up in my seat and closed my eyes, but that was worse, because then I got paranoid, thinking, this is what psychosis feels like. I felt so DUMB, i couldnt put together a sring of thoughts, and all my senses were meshed- I'd move my hand and see it move, but didn't FEEL it move for a few seconds later, after it was resting on my leg again. I sat paralized with fear for i dont know how long, and then, still not any less confused, drove home at 10 miles per hour, i ran into my house and curled up on the floor beside my front door.
this has happened before, once when i smoked pot, once after i missed two nights of sleep, and maybe 5 other times with no trigger at all. Is this a panic attack!? My doctor says probably, hence the xanax, but the xanax doesnt help! it helps with general anxiety, which i have occassionally, usually in social situations. But these suppossed panic attacks never happen when I feel even mildly anxious, always completely out of the blue, and I dont panick untill after my thoughts slow and my body numbs...
BUT, i think i'm really skilled at suppressing dread, to the point of where im not even conscious of it, and perhaps thats why it seems to start with my body?
Are these symptoms i described common in panick attacks? they last much longer than normal panic attacks- usually an hour or longer.
im unnerved, afraid itll happen again
Posted by TerraJo on June 7, 2005, at 22:00:20
In reply to dissociation and panic? or, or, what?!, posted by portage on June 7, 2005, at 18:26:28
dissociating can feel very "foggy" and happens much easier when driving especially. sometimes you can panic because of what is coming to conscious thought, and sometimes you can panic just because "oh, no... this is happening again." before you even have anything to actually panic about. you can medicate panic attacks in a variety of ways, but a good therapist can help with the dissociation. how your body is able to react can depend on where you are at in that process.
hope that helps a little. sorry that happpened to you. sounded very scary and unnerving.
t.
Posted by portage on June 8, 2005, at 2:33:21
In reply to Re: dissociation and panic? or, or, what?!, posted by TerraJo on June 7, 2005, at 22:00:20
I haven't heard that dissociation happens more easily while driving - I wonder why?
This was more than just feeling "foggy", it felt closer to an out - of-body experience, but not quite...
I want to put a label on this, "Panic Disorder" doesn't do it for me. It's too bizzarre. how i cant feel my body, how all my senses feel so jumbled. the fact that xanax doesnt help.
I've heard that "uncued" panic attacks always occur at least once for a diagnosis of panic disorder, but to my understanding, usually only the first panic attack one experiences is uncued.
I've also heard that a full-fledged panic attack can begin with one single fleeting thought, even so brief that it isn't registered consiously.
But I am wondering if the panic I experience is a response to the "cognitive slippage"- because I always feel confused and disoriented, dissociated BEFORE i become scared.
I'm just frusterated and unnerved and , and, annnd> hope that helps a little. sorry that happpened to you. sounded very scary and unnerving.
>
> t.Yes, it helped, thanks. I don't think therapy would be appropriate me, I'm convinced changes in my cognition won't help this. I'm convinced its completely biological. I am taking zoloft also, which helps with general anxiety and my chronic depression, but has not lessened these "panic attacks", if thats what they are.
anyone knowladgable with panic disorders, dissociation....or trippy out-of-body feelings, can you tell me anything?
Posted by KayeBaby on June 8, 2005, at 10:06:13
In reply to is this a PANIC ATTACK? » TerraJo, posted by portage on June 8, 2005, at 2:33:21
Could this be a TIA (I believe Trasient Ischemic Attack is what it stands for) My MIL had this condition and while I cannot say what she felt in an internal sense your description reminds me of her reaction.
Just an idea.
Take Care,
Kaye
Posted by portage on June 9, 2005, at 15:15:37
In reply to Re: is this a PANIC ATTACK?, posted by KayeBaby on June 8, 2005, at 10:06:13
> Could this be a TIA (I believe Trasient Ischemic Attack is what it stands for) My MIL had this condition and while I cannot say what she felt in an internal sense your description reminds me of her reaction.
>
> Just an idea.
>
> Take Care,
> Kaye
Thanks Kaye, I hadn't heard of TIA, but I just looked up the symptoms and they sound like they match mine almost exactly.
Some more symptoms, when panic isn't invovled- sometimes I become terribly confused and can't recall obvious things and have trouble understanding speech. this is always fleeting. I often feel "spacy", I can stare at a wall for hours sometimes.
When there is panic, often things look too far away, and have trouble feeling how my body is positioned- I'll end up sitting in an abnormal position for a long time and not realize it, to later find that I'm sore. Everything in my feild of vision is out of perspective- the horizen seems to go onnn and onn and onn..things seem crooked.
Posted by 4WD on June 9, 2005, at 22:11:12
In reply to some more symptoms, posted by portage on June 9, 2005, at 15:15:37
> > Could this be a TIA (I believe Trasient Ischemic Attack is what it stands for) My MIL had this condition and while I cannot say what she felt in an internal sense your description reminds me of her reaction.
> >
> > Just an idea.
> >
> > Take Care,
> > Kaye
>
>
> Thanks Kaye, I hadn't heard of TIA, but I just looked up the symptoms and they sound like they match mine almost exactly.
>
>
> Some more symptoms, when panic isn't invovled- sometimes I become terribly confused and can't recall obvious things and have trouble understanding speech. this is always fleeting. I often feel "spacy", I can stare at a wall for hours sometimes.
> When there is panic, often things look too far away, and have trouble feeling how my body is positioned- I'll end up sitting in an abnormal position for a long time and not realize it, to later find that I'm sore. Everything in my feild of vision is out of perspective- the horizen seems to go onnn and onn and onn..things seem crooked.
>
>I think you should go to a doctor and get this checked out. You can have a CT scan and it will tell whether you've been having TIAs or not. And if you are there is medication you can take to prevent or reduce the likelihood of further ones. You really should find out what's causing this.
Marsha
Posted by portage on June 10, 2005, at 0:27:18
In reply to Re: some more symptoms » portage, posted by 4WD on June 9, 2005, at 22:11:12
Hi, Marsha. Thanks for listening.
and for the advice.>I think you should go to a doctor and get this checked out.
Me too. I will next week ask my pdoc to a referal to a neurologist.
>You can have a CT scan and it will tell whether you've been having TIAs or not.
I don't know much about TIAs, and didn't know a CT scan can detect them. I DID have a CT scan, when I wound up at the ER durring my first attack. They told me it looked normal. but they told me they were for tumors. and this was the ER on a saturday night, so they were rushed I'm sure. AND, this was before some of the more bizarre symptoms started. And I was in such distress that I didnt articulate my symptoms clearly; they told me it was most likely panic.
>You really should find out what's causing this.
yes! i know!
Posted by latina10 on June 10, 2005, at 14:03:11
In reply to Re: some more symptoms » 4WD, posted by portage on June 10, 2005, at 0:27:18
i feel dizzy, with body buzz like that comes and goes.I get pains in my chest right above my left breast left arm feel weird as well, i find it hard to breathe, doc does say that i have depression and panic attacks, Are these attacks (feelings) all in my mind or is ther a chance of really havin a heart attack or stroke, p.s. i took my self of effexor and syptoms are worst
Posted by latina10 on June 10, 2005, at 14:04:48
In reply to Re: some more symptoms, posted by latina10 on June 10, 2005, at 14:03:11
i wish i could only express my self in more detail so hard for me to say how i feel much like write it, lol
Posted by TABob on June 11, 2005, at 0:06:26
In reply to Re: some more symptoms, posted by latina10 on June 10, 2005, at 14:03:11
> i feel dizzy, with body buzz like that comes and goes.I get pains in my chest right above my left breast left arm feel weird as well, i find it hard to breathe, doc does say that i have depression and panic attacks, Are these attacks (feelings) all in my mind or is ther a chance of really havin a heart attack or stroke, p.s. i took my self of effexor and syptoms are worst
Latin10 has done a fairly well description of a panic attack, but they can be much more severe as the one I experienced about 20 years ago. Complete body numbness and an unbelievable urge to defecate.
The tri-cyclics (sp) helped me to a degree, and since that time, the degree of the attacks gradually become somewhat less intense. But it was still so bad, I was not able to have my children ride in the car with me.
Over the years, the attacks became muffled to the extent that I knew there were certain things I was not able to do. I own my own business and have visited customers maybe three times in the last 15 years and on all ocassions, I was extremely on edge and could not wait to leave. And, of course, eating in a resturant is impossible. The few lady friends I have have to come here. I cannot go there.
So now, approaching retirement age, and with the children gone and divorced from my wife, I spend my time at home in front of the TV. I go to work 6 or 7 days a week, but in order to do that I have to drive a very fast and bold looking car. I don't think I could do this in a standard type of car.
For me, a panic attacks occurs when the thought of one pops in my mind, particularly when a public bath facility is not available. Thens it just feeds on itself until it becomes a full blown attack.
There is, however, one thing that will stop the mind and the panic attack: It is a sudden and abrupt change of the thought process. As an example, which driving, a car pulls in front of me almost causing a collusion. The thoughts of panic attacks arer completely dispursed from my mind and replaced with the incident that almost occurred.
I have a friend whose wife has this condition. I told him that if his wife was having an attack, to slap her in the face (or something to that effect). The action of this would reassign her thoghts solely to the slap and the panic attack would not occur.
Again, in my case a form of panic attacks occurred while walking to Kindergarden class. I remember asking my cousin to punch me in the groin hoping that it would alleviate some of the pain.
Fortunately for me, there is a next life totally absence of physical and mental pain.
Posted by portage on June 11, 2005, at 22:15:48
In reply to Re: some more symptoms, posted by latina10 on June 10, 2005, at 14:04:48
>i feel dizzy, with body buzz like that comes and goes.I get pains in my chest right above my left breast left arm feel weird as well, i find it hard to breathe, doc does say that i have depression and panic attacks, Are these attacks (feelings) all in my mind or is ther a chance of really havin a heart attack or stroke, p.s. i took my self of effexor and syptoms are worst
this sounds a lot like a panic attack; i really really think you shouldnt be worried about a heart attack or stroke, the symptoms do not fit. your symptoms are worse since stopping the effexor- thats another indication that this is anxiety. are you on any other meds? why did you stop taking the effexor? i dont think that its "all in your mind", either- anxiety produces strange sensations- and they ARE caused by real physiological arousal. you arent imagining them, or going crazy. i really hope you see your doctor very soon; have you told him/her that you stopped your meds?
i'm sorry, i know how scary it can be.
do you have anyone to talk to about it? thats very important i think. this board is also a good place, i hope you feel free to share whatever else is on your mind.
keep us updated.
portage.
Posted by portage on June 11, 2005, at 22:31:47
In reply to Re: some more symptoms, posted by TABob on June 11, 2005, at 0:06:26
> The tri-cyclics (sp) helped me to a degree, and since that time, the degree of the attacks gradually become somewhat less intense. But it was still so bad, I was not able to have my children ride in the car with me.
>
> Over the years, the attacks became muffled to the extent that I knew there were certain things I was not able to do. I own my own business and have visited customers maybe three times in the last 15 years and on all ocassions, I was extremely on edge and could not wait to leave. And, of course, eating in a resturant is impossible. The few lady friends I have have to come here. I cannot go there.
>
> So now, approaching retirement age, and with the children gone and divorced from my wife, I spend my time at home in front of the TV. I go to work 6 or 7 days a week, but in order to do that I have to drive a very fast and bold looking car. I don't think I could do this in a standard type of car.
>
> For me, a panic attacks occurs when the thought of one pops in my mind, particularly when a public bath facility is not available. Thens it just feeds on itself until it becomes a full blown attack.
>
> Fortunately for me, there is a next life totally absence of physical and mental pain.God, life can be so damn cruel, please excuse my language. Are you still having frequent panic attacks? It sounds to me that you may have a lot of generalized anxiety, also- maybe a low level of agoraphobia. you shouldnt have to live in a state of perpetual anxiety!!!!! you shouldnt! have you tried other meds? benzos can work absolute wonders for generalized anxiety, as can the ssri's. are you still on tri-cyclins? can you talk to anyone? do you see a psychiatrist? i dont mean to bring you down, but your post made me very sad...just because your life sounds much like mine did before i began taking zoloft and alprazolam a couple years ago... i was verry unhappy, i couldnt find much joy because i was always so unnerved by everything.
i still have these awful attacks, but now i am not plagued by low-level perpetual anxiety about irrational things. my social anxiety has totally dissapeared.
i hope you keep posting.
portage
Posted by tabob on June 23, 2005, at 23:55:49
In reply to Re: some more symptoms, posted by portage on June 11, 2005, at 22:31:47
Finally got to see a psychiatrist today. I told him I was extremely depressed, but he prescribed Geodon which is used to treat schizophrenia. He's the doctor. We'll see how well this works.
Posted by TABob on June 24, 2005, at 21:15:01
In reply to Re: some more symptoms, posted by tabob on June 23, 2005, at 23:55:49
Portage,
How do I get around in this web site. I'm looking for the thread on Lunesta, but have not been able to locate it when searching. Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by portage on June 24, 2005, at 21:48:04
In reply to Re: some more symptoms, posted by TABob on June 24, 2005, at 21:15:01
> Portage,
> How do I get around in this web site. I'm looking for the thread on Lunesta, but have not been able to locate it when searching. Any help would be appreciated.
> Thanks,
> Bobhi Bob. I'm a little new here too. The thread your looking for could be in the archives, try clicking on a different date towards the top of the page; or, even easier- enter "Lunesta" in the Google search bar at the bottom of the PB page. Make sure to check the "dr-bob.org" box before you enter the search.
good luck.
portage
Posted by portage on June 24, 2005, at 22:00:15
In reply to Re: some more symptoms, posted by tabob on June 23, 2005, at 23:55:49
I'm so glad you saw a psychiatrist! My friend started taking Geodon for anxiety a few weeks ago and she's been much happier on it.
I wish you the best; will you let me know how your doing as the meds start to kick in?portage
Posted by TABob on June 27, 2005, at 23:06:59
In reply to Re: some more symptoms » tabob, posted by portage on June 24, 2005, at 22:00:15
>
>
> I'm so glad you saw a psychiatrist! My friend started taking Geodon for anxiety a few weeks ago and she's been much happier on it.
> I wish you the best; will you let me know how your doing as the meds start to kick in?
>
> portage
>I have mixed feelings. The first day on this stuff fired me up. I felt good and I completed more work (paperwork -- answering mail, etc.) that day than I have in a long time. But, this state-of-mind has dissipated over the next several days to the point when I now feel as in the past. But with one exception: I no longer have problems going to the store, etc. I went to Krogers tonight because I wanted some things, not because I was out of food.
I hope this part lasts!
Posted by TABob on September 2, 2005, at 23:31:56
In reply to Re: some more symptoms, posted by TABob on June 27, 2005, at 23:06:59
Well, so much for the psychiatrist!
I had a heart attack on June 28. I wonder if it wasn't the geodone that started the heart attack cycle.
It wasn't a major attack and I was back to work in 5 days.
But, the MOST INTERESTING things that ocurred was that after coming home:
1. I slept so much better than I had in the previous 30 years. I was going to bed at a normal time, and falling into a deep sleep almost right away, sleeping a straight 8 hours, and WAKING UP COMPLETELY REFRESHED. This was great.
2. For the men: My prostate was fully functionally (I'm 64). I had a powerfull stream and complete evacuation.
3. My optimism: Perhaps it was the above two things that caused my optisism, but at any rate, it was great.
Unfortunately these things started waning after 7 days and were gone after the tenth. In otherwords, I reverted to normalcy.
This is the end of the thread.
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