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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by winddancer on April 19, 2005, at 23:47:19
In reply to Re: 4 Wks off Effexor-/joint pain » winddancer, posted by Corafree on April 18, 2005, at 21:26:19
Hi Corafree, Elroy, and everyone else,
I’m not familiar with the 2 drugs you mention – Voltaren 2x a day and Flexeril 3x a day - did you get a prescription for them??
My opinion about all this is that – even if it’s expensive – I/we should have a doctor or whoever willing to do a blood or saliva test to determine what hormones our body is making on its own and what it is missing and then have the doc prescribe a natural bio-identical hormone made up at a compounding pharmacy that has just what YOUR body needs. Hormones are pretty powerful things and it could be just as damaging and inappropriate to take more than you need as it would be to allow yourself to suffer with low hormone levels. I think Phillipa referred to having a cream made up especially for her own specific metabolism.
As far as other nutritional supplements go – I hope to follow the same plan – find out what my body has or manufactures on its own with a good diet and supplement with what’s missing. I learned the hard way that taking Calcium supplements since I was post-menopausal and Osteoporetic was not a good idea FOR ME and resulted in kidney stones – twice. Only recently am I being evaluated by a Nephrologist doctor who was surprised that after the first stone, I was not advised by my MD or the Urologist who did the surgery, that I should avoid Calcium supplements and Hi-oxalate foods - even though I asked – and my urinalysis indicated hi Ca and Oxalates - go figure?Now I’m seeing an Internest MD who offers some very alternate options for pain management and biochemical optimizing. He suggests that I can promote changes in my biochemistry with diet and supplements whereby the excess Ca and Oxalate will be better dissolved, thus avoiding kidney stones and allowing the bones to absorb Ca and collegen (as important or more important than Ca), thus reversing osteoporesis.
MD’s, though very smart about lots of stuff, tend not to be trained in specific nutritional metabolic needs and natural means of optimising health – too bad – since most people usually think of their MD’s as “optimal health doctors” but MD’s are only trained to think of how our ailments can be treated with MEDicines. On the other hand, Naturopaths, Homeopaths and other alternative practitioners are better trained and knowledgeable in these areas. More and more MD’s are beginning to respect their specialized expertise. And, at least in my state, are now covered by BC/BS just like MD's.I believe that there are some excellent companies supplying nutritional supplements. Many are multilevel marketed, which does not diminish their product quality, and often enhances it. I personally tend to think that whole food supplements will be by far the best choice, since whole food is really “more than the sum of its parts” as the nutrients in whole foods operate synergistically with each other and have traces of necessary things that vitamins miss. The companies that I have learned about and believe are well researched are Wholefood Farmacy, Awarenesslife, Nikken, Juice Plus+, Mannetech, and Melaleuca (ask Phillipa about this one). Here are a some websites:
www.colorful.wholefoodfarmacy.com
[THE GREAT AMERICAN WHOLE FOOD FARMACY - Convenient Organic Raw Whole Food]
I keep some of these products in my car for a quick and very healthy snack when I’m late for or missing a meal – better than those sweet power bars and very economical.http://www.wendyjo.awarenesslife.com/
Nikken: www.5pillars.com/833692900;
you can also go to www.nikken.com They have some amazing research and not many people know that they have excellent nutritional supplements – (they are known for their high quality magnet therapy)
Check this out too.
http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2000/oct2000_report_lactoferrin.htmlwinddancer
Posted by winddancer on April 19, 2005, at 23:54:39
In reply to Re: 4 Wks off Effexor-/joint pain, posted by helpless51 on April 19, 2005, at 23:20:35
Geez, the more I read, the more I'm convinced that there is some connection with joint pain and Effexor - there are just too many people finding this pain associated with weaning off the drug. I hope the pharmaceutical company becomes aware of this and does more research!! or will it take a class action suit to get that going?? Probably. Maybe if enough of us get a "disability evaluation" and can't work, it will get investigated. Maybe 5 - 10 years from now!! Yikes!!
Anybody heard of anyone who had these symptoms who had them got away after awhile?
winddancer
Posted by winddancer on April 20, 2005, at 0:02:54
In reply to Re: Anyone have their biochemistry evaluated? » winddancer, posted by Elroy on April 18, 2005, at 16:51:16
Elroy,
Interesting site! Pretty complex. I think I would feel better having a health care practitioner who specializes in this biochemistry evaluate and advise me about this. But I have always been proactive about my health care, and have really been stumped at all that is happening with my health since being on all these AD drugs - Boy! what we get ourselves into when we start taking meds.
winddancer
Posted by winddancer on April 20, 2005, at 0:19:23
In reply to Re: Anyone have their biochemistry evaluated?, posted by Corafree on April 19, 2005, at 22:56:31
CF,
There is a product called "Female Balance" by Awarenesslife, for relief of mild menopausal and PMS symptoms. It has what you're looking for: $25.46 plus shpng and tax = $33.16 for 60 caps; 1 month at 2x per day
A friend of mine swears by this and some of their other products - she has done extensive research for the highest quality supplements she can find for the best price. It is network marketed and if you elect auto-ship, you can get it cheaper and your own website - then anyone who gets it off your site, gives you a commission and therefore reduces your cost further. Let me know if you decide to do it and I will send you the website.
[jf_206@hotmail.com]winddancer
Posted by Phillipa on April 20, 2005, at 0:37:21
In reply to Re: Anyone have their biochemistry evaluated? » Elroy, posted by winddancer on April 20, 2005, at 0:02:54
Corafree, Winddancer is right. If you should want to hear about Melaleuca please Babble me or winddancer can give you my E-mail. I just don't want to post it here. Actually if you accept Babble I'll send it to you quickly. It's the best product out there. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by winddancer on April 20, 2005, at 0:38:16
In reply to Re: 4 Wks off Effexor-/joint pain » winddancer, posted by Corafree on April 18, 2005, at 21:26:19
cf,
I'm reading a book by Jonathan Wright, MD and John Morgenthaler called "Natural Hormone Replacement" - so far - really excellent reading. The alternative MD 'gave' it to me.
Here's his website - perhaps their clinic could suggest someone similar closer to your location.
www.paracelsusclinic.com
tdorman@paracelsusclinic.comwinddancer
Posted by Dr. Bob on April 20, 2005, at 1:51:08
In reply to Re: 4 Wks off Effexor-/joint pain » Corafree, posted by winddancer on April 20, 2005, at 0:38:16
> I'm reading a book by Jonathan Wright, MD and John Morgenthaler called "Natural Hormone Replacement"
Sorry to interrupt, but I'd like to redirect follow-ups regarding natural hormone replacement to Psycho-Babble Alternative. Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20050414/msgs/486825.html
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by winddancer on April 20, 2005, at 1:55:58
In reply to Redirect: natural hormone replacement, posted by Dr. Bob on April 20, 2005, at 1:51:08
Thanks, Good Idea There was some earlier discussion along these lines too.
winddancer
Posted by Corafree on April 20, 2005, at 12:52:18
In reply to Re: 4 Wks off Effexor-/joint pain, posted by helpless51 on April 19, 2005, at 23:20:35
Hi. I have osteoarthritis and fibromyalgia. I was already on Voltaren (NSAID) and Flexeril (muscle relaxant) at the time I d.c. Eff-XR, so I probably would not have noticed if joint pain was an after effect. sorry, cf
Posted by Corafree on April 20, 2005, at 13:01:59
In reply to Natural therapy for Eff withdrawal symptoms » Corafree, posted by winddancer on April 19, 2005, at 23:47:19
Tks Winddancer. That's a print! cf
Posted by Corafree on April 20, 2005, at 13:04:42
In reply to Re: Anyone have their biochemistry evaluated? » Elroy, posted by winddancer on April 20, 2005, at 0:02:54
Just to throw in ... I am now off both anti-depressants Eff-XR and trazodone. I am on a mood stabilizer now. I feel so much better. cf
Posted by Corafree on April 20, 2005, at 13:06:08
In reply to Re: Anyone have their biochemistry evaluated? » Corafree, posted by winddancer on April 20, 2005, at 0:19:23
Tks again for passing info along ... cf
Posted by Corafree on April 20, 2005, at 18:03:20
In reply to Re: Anyone have their biochemistry evaluated?, posted by Phillipa on April 20, 2005, at 0:37:21
Yes pls babble Phillipa, tks, cf
Posted by Colin_in_OZ on April 20, 2005, at 23:25:05
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? YES! (nm), posted by Colin_in_OZ on April 20, 2005, at 23:00:46
Uh-oh, I think I stuffed that up, and lost it entirely.
Anyway, the crux of my question was, has anyone else found that the AD effect of Effexor diminishes after a couple of years? For the past few months I've been feeling as depressed as I used to be, "BE".
I have an appointment with my GP next week, but I just thought I'd ask here meanwhile.
Colin
Posted by Corafree on April 21, 2005, at 2:12:33
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? YES!, posted by Colin_in_OZ on April 20, 2005, at 23:25:05
Recall the tablet Effexor (little house-shaped tab) ... took for maybe 1 to 2 yrs, and yes increased dosage w/ tolerance.
When Eff-XR capsules came out, tried right away. I was high as a kite, too high! Stopped it. Tried others.
One to two yrs later decided give Eff-XR capsules another try; I was totally fine, no real high or real low.
I feel my body must have recognized it, even after it had not been in my system for a year; knew where it left off and what it wanted now, ... or then. I am no longer on it.
Answer for me was, yes, did need to increase along the way w/ tolerance.
best wishes, cf
Posted by Rhonda Jo on April 21, 2005, at 8:11:39
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? YES!, posted by Colin_in_OZ on April 20, 2005, at 23:25:05
> Uh-oh, I think I stuffed that up, and lost it entirely.
>
> Anyway, the crux of my question was, has anyone else found that the AD effect of Effexor diminishes after a couple of years? For the past few months I've been feeling as depressed as I used to be, "BE".
>
> I have an appointment with my GP next week, but I just thought I'd ask here meanwhile.
>
>
> Colin
>effexor ex was the same for me too. a few years in and my depression started to creep back. bumped it to 150 feeling great! still a scatter brain, now I am taking adarall and my life is the best it has ever been. I am starting a new career. I took my state test yesterday and only missed 1 question. I was able to STUDY!!! the lady giving the test said that she does not get a lot of scores like mine. This is not the norm for me. I hated school so much and did so poorly that my senior year I gave up and gave in and took the GED. I wish I had these drugs back in "79"
talk to your doctor if you are sliding back!! don't waste a day!! ;o)
Posted by Keemo on April 21, 2005, at 10:03:20
In reply to Re: Anyone have their biochemistry evaluated? » winddancer, posted by Corafree on April 20, 2005, at 13:04:42
> Just to throw in ... I am now off both anti-depressants Eff-XR and trazodone. I am on a mood stabilizer now. I feel so much better. cf
What is a mood stabilizer? Just for future reference and what does it do besides the obvious?
Keemo
Posted by Corafree on April 21, 2005, at 11:45:10
In reply to ADD, posted by Rhonda Jo on April 21, 2005, at 8:11:39
Hi Rhonda Jo.
Did you spend a lot of yrs struggling w/ 'sort of catching onto things', before you realized you had ADD? Maybe I am older than you. I know I have lived that way forever.
I took the ADD test online a couple mos back and scored way up in the 90s. My P said if no one in my fam' has ADD, I don't! I know; I've heard that is a very 'limited' observation!
Thing is, if I had been treated for ADD 25 yrs ago, I may not have come to a frightening unreal breakdown (literally crumpled physically under all the overwhelming 'head' stress) last month, and now be dependent upon a regimen of mood stabilizers and Valium which is working well. I am sad I have to have these meds to live.
What I mean is ... if I had been able to think things out properly and clearly, my choices over the past 25+ years may have been different! I may not have opened doors to trauma after trauma. Looking back, can see my responsibility in every trauma I experienced. Exception; the physical violence sustained that left me with chronic back pain. But then ... I even wonder about that.
I wonder would a trial of an ADD med even help after so much damage done. Would like to think maybe would, and maybe I could actually make a decision on my own. Most importantly, I would like to be able to look back upon my choices and tell myself, .. wow, that was a good choice I made and I am proud of myself!
Instead, I CANNOT in retrospect say that (unless I rationalize) about many choices in my life.
Do you see any similarity in your situation and mine?
Tks cf
Posted by Corafree on April 21, 2005, at 12:44:19
In reply to Re: Anyone have their biochemistry evaluated?, posted by Keemo on April 21, 2005, at 10:03:20
Mood stabilizers? That's what I always said.
I said if that is an anti-psychotic, it's an anti-psychotic, right ?, and I am not psychotic, so I should not take it.
I said if that is an anti-seizure, it's an anti-seizure, right ?, and I am not epileptic, so I should not take it.
Well, I was wrong!
Ya' see ... the two mood stabilizers I take are actually an anti-psychotic and an anti-seizure; Seroquel and Trileptal.
When will the drug companies list them as 'mood stabilizers'? I don't know. I know their 'usage indicators' scared me, and it took a knock-down drag-out to get me to finally take them.
And what they have done to me is really simple - not falling apart at the drop of a hat, able to recognize a joke and laugh - they sort of enable your mood to be 'mood appropriate'!
best wishes, cf
Posted by Giulio on April 21, 2005, at 21:29:51
In reply to Anyone had success on Effexor XR? , posted by jp on October 24, 1999, at 14:59:14
Hi mate:
The first advise to you is "listen to your body": if you're unhappy with Effexor, talk to your doctor and drop it and find alternatives. No second thoughts; trust your gut!!!!
I've been using Effexor to treat anxiety and panic. I've used it for three years now, and I'm very happy with the progress. I'd had anxiety and occasional panic attacks for about 4 years, since 1997. In 2002 the problem had become overwhelming and my job was in jeopardy (let alone quality of life).. Before Effexor I'd tried Zoloft and Lorazepan (sublingual). I got addicted to Lorazepan, whereas I had the impression that Zoloft was of no help to me. So, after 10-12 weeks of Zoloft I tried Effexor. Within 6-8 weeks I began feeling better and I quite easily eliminated Lorazepan. At the present I feel very well and can deal with life problems at ease. I had no more sleepless nights and infact can fall asleep when I want to. So it seems tha Effexor has worked very well and my doctor and I recently agreed how I should move towards a drug-free life (more or less within the year). However, I want to highlight other factors that have affected my health. First of all my doctor is very good at communicating, listening and talking. He also has quite an amount of knowledge on some typical symptoms of anxiety - for example the 'fear of fear', the cycle of an attack, respiration, etc.-: so, talking to him is always 'easy'; I feel and I am sure he understands what I'm talking about. I always felt empowered when interacting with him; most of the decisions on planning a course of action are mine, while he monitored my progresses -he was quite directive when I was getting more and more dependant on Lorazepan. Secondly, some of the problems that were keeping me very much on my nerves slowly began to improve. I still have a lot to deal with (financial problems at the top of the list, but also quality of life), but I can get things out of my system very quickly now: I just do what I honestly can and don't waste my time in negative thinking. One thing that has helped me a lot is my professional knowledge of depression and anxiety (post-grad level) and pharmacology. Having clear ideas in regard to what was happening to me has helped me a lot. I have met many people who are dealing with problems similar to mine and /or with various degrees of depression and some of them told me that they were happy with whatever they were/ are using (Zoloft, Paxil, Valium, Clonazepan, etc. etc...).
Take care....
> Hi there,
>
> Anyone care to comment on the use of Effexor? Anyone
> "happy" with it? I have tried Prozac (too much anxiety),
> Serzone (too sedating). I am currently on Buspar for anxiety.
>
> Been reading many different reports... Effexor seems
> to have a lot of success...
>
> please share your thoughts on this.
Posted by StayceeIB on April 22, 2005, at 1:42:58
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? » jp, posted by Giulio on April 21, 2005, at 15:05:05
Hey Staycee here
You guys out there as I stare at this botle of Effexor XR 37.5 prescribed yesterday, I am panicing just thinking of taking it.. I am reallly sacred and not sure what to do...Help anyone..I really have bad anxiety attacks as it is and when i think about taking this i get so scared.. Does it really help ?? What costs? also I smoke daily ...will I have a a bad interaction??
I have near daily panic attacks .though I stil think they may be my heart but its been a year of them and they come and go so i guess it is anxiety..rgradless now i am afraid to take effexor ..what do I do..?? I am even afraid if I do choose to take it I will choke on the pill..also had badexperience with Zoloft like 7 years ago never took anything again ..i fill rxs but thats as close as ive gotten ..last year i filled lexapro..never even took
anyway people help me
really need advice..obsessing over tis too!
Posted by StayceeIB on April 22, 2005, at 1:47:00
In reply to Re: Anyone have their biochemistry evaluated?, posted by Keemo on April 21, 2005, at 10:03:20
> > Just to throw in ... I am now off both anti-depressants Eff-XR and trazodone. I am on a mood stabilizer now. I feel so much better. cf
>
> What is a mood stabilizer? Just for future reference and what does it do besides the obvious?
> KeemoIs Depakote one of theses???
Posted by winddancer on April 22, 2005, at 3:12:36
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR?, posted by StayceeIB on April 22, 2005, at 1:42:58
StayceeIB,
If you haven't done so yet - try to find someone who will help you evaluate your biochemistry. I'm learning more and more that if NATURAL hormones, and other chemistry are out of balance it can cause all sorts of things like anxiety or depression, heart disease, you name it. Wish I had found someone who knew how to evaluate this for me 10 years ago when I was perimenopausal and started having emotional problems and panic attacks which were better for a few years and came back last year.
I'm just reading this book that makes sense out of all this. You can get the book on Amazon or perhaps your library or used book store: "Natural Hormone Replacement for Women over 45" by Jonathan V. Wright who is director of the Tahoma Clinic in Kent, WA A good read even if you're younger than that and enlightening for men as well. Naturopathic and Homeopathic doctors can help with this or find someone who can. Unfortunately, not all medical insurance covers it - and main stream MD's and therapists do not study about natural remedies, only medical remedies promoted by pharaceutical companies, etc. Knowing what I know now, it might be worth a loan if you can get your health back on track - you sound like I was a year ago and got on all those meds. which probably helped the anxiety in the short term but has messed up so many other things.
Good luck and keep us posted about what you decide to do.
winddancer
Posted by Rhonda Jo on April 22, 2005, at 8:51:31
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR?, posted by StayceeIB on April 22, 2005, at 1:42:58
> Hey Staycee here
>
> You guys out there as I stare at this botle of Effexor XR 37.5 prescribed yesterday, I am panicing just thinking of taking it.. I am reallly sacred and not sure what to do...Help anyone..I really have bad anxiety attacks as it is and when i think about taking this i get so scared.. Does it really help ?? What costs? also I smoke daily ...will I have a a bad interaction??
>
> I have near daily panic attacks .though I stil think they may be my heart but its been a year of them and they come and go so i guess it is anxiety..rgradless now i am afraid to take effexor ..what do I do..?? I am even afraid if I do choose to take it I will choke on the pill..also had badexperience with Zoloft like 7 years ago never took anything again ..i fill rxs but thats as close as ive gotten ..last year i filled lexapro..never even took
>
> anyway people help me
> really need advice..obsessing over tis too!
Staycee.........Take the effexor!!It will help you!! I have been taking it for several years and I am doing great! I stopped one time, because I was feeling so much better I thought I didn't need it anymore, my husband and I are scuba divers, with out the drug I had a panic attack everytime I hit the water. I got back on it and I enjoy my diving again.....
Lexapro- my daughter takes it she is doing great!
Zoloft- they should take that "crap" off the market!! I was given that first- I spent 2 days in the bathroom sick. never again.
My wish for you is that you want a good life bad enough to take the steps to get there, courage is not something we have, it is something we do....
when you are feeling better you are going to want a long life and at that time ask for help to stop smoking. I will say a prayer for you.
good luck
RJ
Posted by StayceeIB on April 22, 2005, at 23:20:34
In reply to ADD, posted by Rhonda Jo on April 22, 2005, at 8:51:31
What were your side effects? I was horribly sick from 2 days of a zoloft trial 9 years ago.. thats why I am rally anti-med ..Repeat I know but really I had a broken had last 2 mos(cast off early this week) and I took one percocet paniked and never took a pain pill again..AND I HAD PAIN! Wish I wasnt scared I really am dying to have a GREAT life ..been along time coming an dnow I am getting older and see I nee dto play an active role butthe med thing i sso scary or is this fear all part of my illness??
?? Lexapro and Effexor what is th ereal diff? as for what they help with? and does lexapro have side effcts too?
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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