Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 471579

Shown: posts 1 to 25 of 25. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

Clonazepam (Klonopin) - steady state concentration

Posted by sdb on March 16, 2005, at 5:50:59

Does somebody know when the steady state plasma concentration of Klonopin is reached?

Thank you very much!

 

Re: Clonazepam (Klonopin) - steady state concentration

Posted by Ritch on March 16, 2005, at 10:58:28

In reply to Clonazepam (Klonopin) - steady state concentration, posted by sdb on March 16, 2005, at 5:50:59

> Does somebody know when the steady state plasma concentration of Klonopin is reached?
>
> Thank you very much!

Rough guess, but I think somewhere between 1-2 weeks, it depends on how fast your body eliminates it, and that would be somewhat individual.

 

Re: Clonazepam (Klonopin) - steady state concentration

Posted by ed_uk on March 16, 2005, at 11:20:14

In reply to Re: Clonazepam (Klonopin) - steady state concentration, posted by Ritch on March 16, 2005, at 10:58:28

Yep, I agree with Mitch.

Ed.

 

Re: Clonazepam (Klonopin) - steady state concentration

Posted by sdb on March 16, 2005, at 17:09:49

In reply to Re: Clonazepam (Klonopin) - steady state concentration, posted by ed_uk on March 16, 2005, at 11:20:14

Thanks for the answers

Where have you read that? Are there any sources?

I have frequented many sources and I have only found the elimination time (30hours). But that time means the elimination of all metabolites and they are not as strong as the original molecule. So in one intake efficacy is 12 hours max. But with time efficacy is >12 hours because of the elimination halflife. If you want to be exactly you should know all the metabolites and their efficacy and and... it is so complicated

regards

 

Re: Clonazepam (Klonopin) - steady state concentration sdb

Posted by ed_uk on March 18, 2005, at 8:29:15

In reply to Re: Clonazepam (Klonopin) - steady state concentration, posted by sdb on March 16, 2005, at 17:09:49

Hi :-)

The elimination half-life of the clonazepam molecule itself is 20-40 hours. I got the info from Martindale, the textbook. Why do you need this information?

Regards,
Ed.

 

Re: Clonazepam (Klonopin) - steady state concentration

Posted by sdb on March 21, 2005, at 12:59:27

In reply to Re: Clonazepam (Klonopin) - steady state concentration sdb, posted by ed_uk on March 18, 2005, at 8:29:15

Efficacy is only 12 hours (unfortunately) so it is not proportional with half-life. I dont know the book. But I will check up.
Thanks

 

Re: Clonazepam (Klonopin) - steady state concentration sdb

Posted by ed_uk on March 21, 2005, at 13:15:06

In reply to Re: Clonazepam (Klonopin) - steady state concentration, posted by sdb on March 21, 2005, at 12:59:27

Hi!

>Efficacy is only 12 hours (unfortunately) so *it is not proportional with half-life.*

That applies to most drugs, particularly in short-term use, there are other factors which affect duration of action as well as half-life.

Anyway, based on the half-life of clonazepam, it would make sense to dose it 2-3 times a day. Giving it as a single daily dose would produce large fluctuations in the plasma concentration.

Best regards,
Ed.

PS. Just out of interest, what country are you from?

 

Re: Clonazepam (Klonopin) - steady state concentration

Posted by missamor on March 22, 2005, at 14:49:11

In reply to Re: Clonazepam (Klonopin) - steady state concentration sdb, posted by ed_uk on March 21, 2005, at 13:15:06

so taking 1.5 mg of k in the evening rather than .5mg 3 x's a day is worse for you? what does it cause?
i have been taking k 1.5mg once daily instead of 3 x's per day.
thank you!

 

Re: Clonazepam (Klonopin) - steady state concentration missamor

Posted by ed_uk on March 22, 2005, at 15:31:58

In reply to Re: Clonazepam (Klonopin) - steady state concentration, posted by missamor on March 22, 2005, at 14:49:11

Hello,

Some people can successfully take clon as a single daily dose, other people find that it's better to take it in divided doses though- it should provide more consistent relief of anxiety throughout the day.

Regards,
Ed.

 

Re: Clonazepam (Klonopin) - steady state concentration

Posted by sdb on March 24, 2005, at 22:40:32

In reply to Re: Clonazepam (Klonopin) - steady state concentration, posted by missamor on March 22, 2005, at 14:49:11

I have the interesting reaction that Klonopin 2mg once daily without pretreatment cause *more anxiety* and what is normal with benzos some sedation, sleepiness and muscle relaxion. The anxiety is less when i take the Klonopin for a few days. This would prove when plasma levels accumulate-> it causes some more efficacy. But I cannot support that Klonopin immediately relieves anxiety.

Does somebody have the same experience?

During a week on Klonopin i had no problems with longterm memory but a little bit with short term memory (with alcohol its the same). Klonopin sedates (I only took it for one week), but i cannot say it would cause depression. But its definately not energizing.

Does somebody have problems in memorizing things with Klonopin (learning facts)?

A bad sideeffect is a loss of libido. Perhaps there is the possibility to combat this with bupropion (i have never taken it) or even tadalafil. Buspirone does nothing, remeron does a lot for libido but i have bad sideeffects (sedation...), trazodone is the best because it improves libido and erection (feeling like a bull) but i feel bad with that drug, cannot concentrate anymore. Some persons have the opposite therefore positive effects for libido (a guy called Rick). But studies and I cannot support that. Every is different. Perhaps I should take the drug longer than seven days and the sideeffects could turn in the positive opposite way.

I have once taken 2mg Xanax retard and I think it only sedated me.

The best I have tried for physical anxiety are betablockers. Nadolol, oxprenolol (slow) and pindolol for short term does a lot. The rest of the betablockers are not that good. Above all propranolol (sedation, loss of libido etc.) and beta1-selectives like atenolol (only reduces exercise tachycardia mediated through nervi cardiaci, for isoprenaline (b1/b2 agonist like epinephrine) it does almost nothing. Only good in high dosages. I only take betablockers currently.

These are some experiences.

Every comment or all answers to questions are welcome!

to ed: I come from the eurozone.

 

Re: Clonazepam (Klonopin) - steady state concentration sdb

Posted by ed_uk on March 25, 2005, at 10:43:47

In reply to Re: Clonazepam (Klonopin) - steady state concentration, posted by sdb on March 24, 2005, at 22:40:32

Hello,

>I have the interesting reaction that Klonopin 2mg once daily without pretreatment cause *more anxiety*

Does it make you feel impaired or confused? If I take to much benzo I feel helpless because of the cognitive impairment it causes, this sometimes makes me more anxious.

>A bad sideeffect is a loss of libido.

Why not try Librium or Valium instead?

Ed.

 

Re: Clonazepam (Klonopin) - steady state concentration

Posted by sdb on March 25, 2005, at 13:48:29

In reply to Re: Clonazepam (Klonopin) - steady state concentration sdb, posted by ed_uk on March 25, 2005, at 10:43:47

Hi,

I would say that I have more nervous tension. Perhaps I feel some fatigue and I feel impaired. I am more nervous.

After two repeated dosages of 2mg Clonazepam I feel confident and the clonazepam works.

When I am "pretreatet" :-) with clonazepam the dosages to have relieve are lower.

I have never taken Valium. I saw many people under Valium in the hospital and they were all very sedated (like a zombie). Valium is also used during gastroenterological diagnostics to calm patients.

Bye the way, I have found a new pro erect. stimulant which seem to work not bad (doxazosin). It is an alpha1-blocker which dilates blood vessels and relaxes smooth muscles. But I am not yet experienced.

I dont know about librium. I will check it.

I will test a combo of low dosage clonazepam (1mg-1.5mg/day) with Nadolol (15mg, very low dosage) for some weeks to have a better impression of the drug.

Do you have experience with clonazepam (dosage, efficacy) or Xanax XR?

Regards

> Hello,
>
> >I have the interesting reaction that Klonopin 2mg once daily without pretreatment cause *more anxiety*
>
> Does it make you feel impaired or confused? If I take to much benzo I feel helpless because of the cognitive impairment it causes, this sometimes makes me more anxious.
>
> >A bad sideeffect is a loss of libido.
>
> Why not try Librium or Valium instead?
>
> Ed.
>

 

Re: Clonazepam (Klonopin) - steady state concentration sdb

Posted by ed_uk on March 25, 2005, at 14:17:19

In reply to Re: Clonazepam (Klonopin) - steady state concentration, posted by sdb on March 25, 2005, at 13:48:29

Hello,

>I have never taken Valium. I saw many people under Valium in the hospital and they were all very sedated (like a zombie).

Some people find clonazepam more sedating than Valium! People in hospital often look like zombies, they were probably on very high doses to control severe anxiety or agitation, also they are likely to be very ill and on other sedating drugs as well, such as Zyprexa. Valium doesn't turn me into a zombie!

>Do you have experience with clonazepam (dosage, efficacy) or Xanax XR?

No, clonazepam isn't prescribed much in England. Xanax XR isn't available here. Diazepam (Valium) is popular. Chlordiazepoxide, lorazepam and oxazepam are sometimes prescribed. I've tried lorazepam, I quite liked it.

Regards,
Ed.

> I live in the Eurozone

PS. You are very secretive! I live in England.

 

Re: Clonazepam (Klonopin) - steady state concentration

Posted by sdb on March 26, 2005, at 12:21:18

In reply to Re: Clonazepam (Klonopin) - steady state concentration sdb, posted by ed_uk on March 25, 2005, at 14:17:19

Valium has a bad reputation. Perhaps because it was one of the first benzodiazepines or you have to elevate dosages from time to time similar as the Xanax (drug abuse). I have never taken Lorazepam. In the literature it is described as a primarely sedating, anxiolytic substance and it is used before operations. But honestly in the EMC and in other compendiums are written things like you have to take, it is allowed for, you should,... but everybody can react differently and drug companies are trying to market a substance for everything. Especially the ssris are not that good as some people believe (or the drug companies hammered them the efficacy in to the brain) and the drug companies have dirty tricks: selling a good old drug as a new substance (certainly much more expensive...)or modify a substance and telling the people it would be two hundred times more "selective" and therefore effective (for ex. lexapro, mirtazapine and so on...)

Have you ever taken clonazepam? What was the difference between Valium/Clonazepam/Lorazepam? Did you ever have difficulties to learn things by heart during longterm Lorazepam or Clonazepam?

Clonazepam is the only benzodiazepine you can use longterm for panic approved by the FDA. According to two studies the dosages dont have to be elevated and efficacy remains stable.

You stated Zyprexa: I have taken very low dosage zyprexa once and I slept two days...with almost no interrupt. They could marked that as a longterm sleeping pill.

It doesnt matter where I live in the eurozone but I was in the UK (london, Oxford,...) and I liked the wonderfull landscape and the houses with the "natural" roofs.

kind regards

 

Re: Clonazepam (Klonopin) - steady state concentration sdb

Posted by ed_uk on March 26, 2005, at 12:53:10

In reply to Re: Clonazepam (Klonopin) - steady state concentration, posted by sdb on March 26, 2005, at 12:21:18


>It doesnt matter where I live in the eurozone...

No, I guess not. I was trying to be friendly, I see that it didn't pay off.

 

Re: Clonazepam (Klonopin) - steady state concentration

Posted by ed_uk on March 26, 2005, at 13:12:16

In reply to Re: Clonazepam (Klonopin) - steady state concentration, posted by sdb on March 26, 2005, at 12:21:18

Hello,

>It doesnt matter........

I'm sorry, I was offended by this. I thought it was unnecessary since no one can identify you.

>Valium has a bad reputation.

It depends which country you live in. Different benzos have different reuptations in different countries.

>Perhaps because it was one of the first benzodiazepines or you have to elevate dosages from time to time........

Dose elevation is frequently necessary with all benzos, including clonazepam. Some people are luckly enough to find a stable dose which is effective for many years, other people are not so lucky.

>Have you ever taken clonazepam?

No.

>What was the difference between Valium/Clonazepam/Lorazepam?

Personally, I find diazepam slightly more sedating and muscle relaxant than lorazepam.

> Did you ever have difficulties to learn things by heart during longterm Lorazepam or Clonazepam?

I've never taken a benzo long term. All benzos can cause amnesia. All the benzos which I've tried have had a negative impact on my memory.

>According to two studies the dosages dont have to be elevated and efficacy remains stable.

Some people are lucky, some are not. I've known people who've developed tolerance to clonazepam's anxiolytic properties very quickly.

Regards,
Ed.

 

Re: Clonazepam (Klonopin) - steady state concentration

Posted by sdb on March 26, 2005, at 13:32:51

In reply to Re: Clonazepam (Klonopin) - steady state concentration sdb, posted by ed_uk on March 26, 2005, at 12:53:10

You seem to be friendly and very experienced in pharmacology!

I am trying to be friendly too.

I have perhaps some hours by aeroplane to go to the UK.

I am not secretive but I would like to be unidentified as much as possible in this forum. I please you of comprehension.

I would only correspond privately per E-Mail.

kind regards

 

Re: Hello sdb! sdb

Posted by ed_uk on March 26, 2005, at 13:47:40

In reply to Re: Clonazepam (Klonopin) - steady state concentration, posted by sdb on March 26, 2005, at 13:32:51

Hi :-)

I'm really sorry, I was in a bad mood when I replied to your post. I'm sorry for what I said. I get irritable sometimes and I say things which I regret, then I feel stupid for saying them!

>You seem to be friendly and very experienced in pharmacology!

Thank you! You are too kind!

>I am trying to be friendly too.

I know- you are friendly :-) I over-reacted :-S

>I am not secretive but I would like to be unidentified as much as possible in this forum. I please you of comprehension.

I understand :-)

Kind regards,
Ed.

 

Re: Hello sdb!

Posted by sdb on March 26, 2005, at 14:18:01

In reply to Re: Hello sdb! sdb, posted by ed_uk on March 26, 2005, at 13:47:40

I like this forum because you can share applied knowledge and you can also speak out. Talking with understanding and unique human beings is giving you the certainty to be never alone and connected with people sharing similar problems.

I wish you ed, and all in this forum happy easter and dont forget to adjust your watches* !


*only in concerning countries

 

Re: Hello sdb! sdb

Posted by ed_uk on March 26, 2005, at 15:06:42

In reply to Re: Hello sdb!, posted by sdb on March 26, 2005, at 14:18:01

Hi!

HAPPY EASTER :-)

Kind regards,
Ed.

PS. If you have any more questions about benzodiazepines I would be happy to try to answer them.

 

I have a question

Posted by rev on March 27, 2005, at 9:31:04

In reply to Re: Hello sdb! sdb, posted by ed_uk on March 26, 2005, at 15:06:42

> Hi!
>
> HAPPY EASTER :-)
>
> Kind regards,
> Ed.
>
> PS. If you have any more questions about benzodiazepines I would be happy to try to answer them.

May I ask a question? Why would my doctor prefer Ambien to Clonazepam?

I have been taking .50 mg clonazepam for about 7 years. Recent move, went to new doctor who doesn't like clonazepam. Wants me to take Ambien instead. I tried 2.5 mg Ambien. It makes me dizzy for most of the next morning.

Thanks
rev (in US)

 

Re: I have a question rev

Posted by ed_uk on March 27, 2005, at 16:51:03

In reply to I have a question, posted by rev on March 27, 2005, at 9:31:04

Hello,

>Why would my doctor prefer Ambien to Clonazepam?

Ambien seems to be less likely to cause physical dependence (ie tolerance and withdrawal symptoms) than clonazepam. Also, Ambien is less likely to cause daytime drowsiness than clonazepam.

>I have been taking .50 mg clonazepam for about 7 years.

To treat insomnia? Was it still helping?

Ed.

 

Re: I have a question rev

Posted by ed_uk on March 28, 2005, at 6:53:52

In reply to I have a question, posted by rev on March 27, 2005, at 9:31:04

PS. Did you stop taking the clonazepam abruptly? Are you having any withdrawal symptoms?

Ed.

 

Re: I have a question ed_uk

Posted by rev on March 28, 2005, at 11:57:43

In reply to Re: I have a question rev, posted by ed_uk on March 28, 2005, at 6:53:52

> PS. Did you stop taking the clonazepam abruptly? Are you having any withdrawal symptoms?
>
> Ed.

No, very gradual reduction while at the same time reducing zoloft. At first the night terrors came back but that has subsided. But now I can only sleep 5-6 hours a night. Dizziness came back--resolved with minute doses of each med (12.5 zoloft and .25 clonazepam.) Heart palpitations/slight pain are coming back but benign.
From past experience I know that Ambien is a great "get to sleep" med but doesn't last for me. Also, I get crying spells in the morning after taking Ambien. But not with Klonopin. I am trying to decide between 2 new doctors. I went in just to get established and told each that I wanted to wean off meds. The first did not like Klonopin (clonazepam.) But thought I would be better off staying on meds. i.e. thought I would have depression/anxiety related illnesses if I wean off. That doctor wanted me to switch to Ambien and increase Zoloft and take Reglan for gastro related problems caused by Zoloft. My family wanted me to get a second opinion. Went to another doctor and said I wanted to wean off meds. That doctor suggested I stay on Klonopin (because it is harder to get off of) and decrease Zoloft. I have found that the 2 meds work better together, increasing or decreasing each at same rate.

I cannot get to sleep if I do not take something! Klonopin alone depresses me (I think) and Zoloft alone keeps me awake. But perhaps I am a typical "mood disorder" patient who is always blaming meds for physical/mental illnesses.

I had reached the point where the apathy/lethargy was causing me to take 30 mg Sudafed and one Excedrin for motivation. Then I got a potential glaucoma scare. That made me want to get off all meds.

The second doctor said it would probably take 10 days of feeling yucky to get off the zoloft. I haven't had 10 days yet where I haven't resorted to taking some--mainly because of dizziness and diarrhea and heart.

Long answer to your short question. I think I might be like the poster who takes eensy weensy bits of a med and does better. And to my original question--why Ambien over clonazepam?

By the way, originally clonazepam was added to Effexor as a mood stabilizer.

rev

 

Re: I have a question rev

Posted by ed_uk on March 28, 2005, at 15:55:01

In reply to Re: I have a question ed_uk, posted by rev on March 28, 2005, at 11:57:43

Hello,

Perhaps you could just continue clonazepam at a very low dose, say 0.125mg/day. What do you think?

>And to my original question--why Ambien over clonazepam?

I answered that earlier, not in my last post but the one before!

Kind regards,
Ed.


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