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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by DynaUnity333 on October 13, 2004, at 11:11:42
I have had a very very weird experience today.
Over the past three years i have been experiencing awful awful anxiety (My doc thinks depression but i don't necessarily agree) both general and social that have started to make me very very unwell.
My physical wellbeing has suffered tremendously over the past two years in particular and continues to get worse. if anyone has read a few of my threads above they will get the jist.
Anyway after haggling with my doc he has put me on librium for a while to get some relief and while it has helped a few of the physical anxiety symptoms i have still been as anxious as ever mentally and the physical illness that goes with it, that is until today.
Two nights ago i started Teething (lol, thats what i like to call it, a bit childish but it tickles me, anyway enough said about that), in as much as my wisdom teeth are attempting to break through, my god does that hurt.Anyway, i have had to go to my dentists today because the pain has been unbearable, and was given some pain relievers containing 500 mgs and 30 mgs of codeine phosphate each.
I have taken four of these today, two at a time, and while the pain has gone which is a good thing, to my surprise both my low grade mental depression (dysthymia??) and social anxiety have completely dissipated. I still feel a bit nervous but i think that is because the pain killers feel almost narcotic, not quite a high as such, more of a very very slight stimulation.
Can anyone explain this at all. I have taken paracetamol many times before and never had anything like this. Am i just feeling some type of high?? Is it likely to be the codeine??? What is codeine exactly, and if it is the codeine is it possible to take this stuff on a regular basis or is that just wishful thinking???Im absolutely shocked at the level of relief of my mental problems that these painkillers have given me which has been totally and utterly unexpected. Any information would be greatly appreciated.
Posted by DynaUnity333 on October 13, 2004, at 11:14:50
In reply to Cured my depression and anxiety by mistake??!!, posted by DynaUnity333 on October 13, 2004, at 11:11:42
crumbs,
that should read each tablet contains 500 mgs PARACETAMOL, and 30 mgs Codeine phosphate.
Posted by partlycloudy on October 13, 2004, at 12:13:03
In reply to Re: Cured my depression and anxiety by mistake??!!, posted by DynaUnity333 on October 13, 2004, at 11:14:50
I believe coedine is an opium derivative. I would definitely tell your doctor about the relief you feel when taking it.
Good luck with the wisdom teeth!
pc
Posted by Jasmineneroli on October 13, 2004, at 18:55:03
In reply to Cured my depression and anxiety by mistake??!!, posted by DynaUnity333 on October 13, 2004, at 11:11:42
Codeine affects opioid receptors.That's how it's pain relief works. It also is a bit sedating.
Opium is mood-lightning. So you may well be experiencing a lifting of depression/anxiety.
There are several medications that affect these receptors that can be used to treat depression.
Report your findings to your doctor.
And if you can find him at Babble, ask Ames Sans Vie for info on opioid receptor meds for anxiety/depression. He is extremely knowledgeable
and has loads of experience with such drugs.
Try a post addressed to him...he might be lurking around :).
Jas
Posted by jboud24 on October 14, 2004, at 19:11:59
In reply to Re: Cured my depression and anxiety by mistake??!!, posted by Jasmineneroli on October 13, 2004, at 18:55:03
Ever heard of Buprenorphine?
A pdoc would probably be more inclined to try that before any of the morphine derivatives of which codiene is one. Codiene is chemically O-methyl morphine.
Good Luck,
Justin
Posted by Larry Hoover on October 14, 2004, at 22:51:34
In reply to Cured my depression and anxiety by mistake??!!, posted by DynaUnity333 on October 13, 2004, at 11:11:42
> Im absolutely shocked at the level of relief of my mental problems that these painkillers have given me which has been totally and utterly unexpected. Any information would be greatly appreciated.
Codeine is a pro-drug. Unlike some substances that are deactivated by liver enzymes, this is one case where codeine is activated by the liver, turning it into morphine.
The rate of conversion is rather low in most people, about 4% an hour, but that varies substantially, as the liver enzyme responsible (2D6) has a vast range of activity in different people.
Opiates used to be first-line treatment for depression in the first half of the 20th century, but the obvious problems with tolerance and addiction still remain today. You can extend resistance to tolerance by taking certain other substances along with opiates, but I have never heard of anyone able to make it work long-term (more than a few months).
Codeine is something like timed-release morphine. It just doesn't work long term. Sorry.
Lar
Posted by DynaUnity333 on October 15, 2004, at 7:54:51
In reply to Re: Cured my depression and anxiety by mistake??!! » DynaUnity333, posted by Larry Hoover on October 14, 2004, at 22:51:34
Cheers for that Larry,
Having done a bit of a search around the internet i would have to concur that you are prefectly correct, what a shame.
Seems to me that if someone could invent a medication that prevented tolerance to opiates that depression and anxiety disorders akin to mine would be a thing of the past, but i still think that the powers that be, Big Brother and all that, would much rather have us sedtade than depression free anyway. Maybe thats why there is such little research done on novel ideas. (Except the French, wonder why that is???)
Anyway, buprenorphine looks like the best bet if i was to go such a way but asking a GP in the UK to try something like that would be like asking Bush to comment on the home truths in the franheit 9/11 documentary. I would be laughed at and told to go away (in harsher words, you understand what im saying).
Posted by Larry Hoover on October 15, 2004, at 10:58:36
In reply to Re: Cured my depression and anxiety by mistake??!!, posted by DynaUnity333 on October 15, 2004, at 7:54:51
> Cheers for that Larry,
>
> Having done a bit of a search around the internet i would have to concur that you are prefectly correct, what a shame.Oh, I agree. It is a shame. Tramadol has a very beneficial effect on my mood, but only if used occasionally. I've had to take e.g. oxycodone for joint surgery, and I have had the most serious sort of mood crash after withdrawing from it. It seems that there was an underlying mood effect that lead to compensatory changes in brain function, but the withdrawal of the opiate left me totally "unsupported", and down I went.
> Seems to me that if someone could invent a medication that prevented tolerance to opiates that depression and anxiety disorders akin to mine would be a thing of the past, but i still think that the powers that be, Big Brother and all that, would much rather have us sedtade than depression free anyway. Maybe thats why there is such little research done on novel ideas. (Except the French, wonder why that is???)
It's being looked at, but we don't have a key piece of the puzzle. For pain management, dextromethorphan (and other NMDA-active drugs) can abolish the tolerance effect. A combination drug, called Morphidex (morphine and dextromethorpah), or something like that, is in trials.
The recognition of pain sensation (nociception) involves a different type of opiate receptor than the one that influences mood. We don't yet know how to block tolerance at that other receptor class.> Anyway, buprenorphine looks like the best bet if i was to go such a way but asking a GP in the UK to try something like that would be like asking Bush to comment on the home truths in the franheit 9/11 documentary. I would be laughed at and told to go away (in harsher words, you understand what im saying).
Oh, I get it. Still, it might be something to remember if and when a very serious depression takes hold of you.
Regards,
Lar
Posted by ed_uk on October 15, 2004, at 12:15:51
In reply to Re: Cured my depression and anxiety by mistake??!! » DynaUnity333, posted by Larry Hoover on October 15, 2004, at 10:58:36
You can buy dextromethorphan over the counter in the uk (as a cough supressant)but the pharmacist might get a bit suspicious if you buy loads of it because some people deliberately o.d. on it to hallucinate! I am not recommnding this btw, could be very dangerous.
Ed.
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