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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by kalyb on June 5, 2003, at 15:58:20
I know this topic has been raised before but I can't find any relevant posts....
I've been having trouble getting off to sleep since I started taking Effexor, and I understand taking benadryl at bedtime can help. I'm often lying awake till 4am or so, and then once asleep I sleep soooo long, not waking till noon some days! Though, I did that before the Effexor, so, hey...
Anyway I'll look in the local pharmacy tomorrow to see how much it costs - I think here in the UK it's pretty darn expensive... from memory, about £5 - £7 for only 12 tablets (that would be around $7-$10).
In the meantime, can anyone answer these for me...
* How much to take
* Whether I'd be likely to sleep even longer in the mornings !
* Could I become dependent on it?
* Is there anything else I can get over the counter in the Uk which would do as well, preferably cheaper?
* Should I just wait and talk to my pdoc with this when I see him in 2 weeks time?
and
* Can someone send me a plane ticket so I can go to WalMarts and buy a big tub of 100 for $4....? (j/k).
Cheers,
Kalyb xx
Posted by Felicity on June 5, 2003, at 16:05:59
In reply to Benadryl, posted by kalyb on June 5, 2003, at 15:58:20
Lots of people here in the states take Benadryl to help with sleep. It's simply an antihistamine that makes you drowsy. In fact, Tylenol makes an over-the-counter product called "Simply Sleepy" that is the same ingredient as Benadryl. You would want to take one or two about an hour before you want to go to bed. Don't drive or drink alcohol. It shouldn't make you drowsy in the morning as long as you allow yourself a good 8 hours of sleep.
Take Care and keep us posted!
~Felicity~
Posted by maxime on June 5, 2003, at 16:16:55
In reply to Benadryl, posted by kalyb on June 5, 2003, at 15:58:20
Hi there. When I was in the psych ward in March there were patients receiving Benadryl for sleep! I was really surprised because I don't think of it as a psych med.
Anyhow, don't go over the recommended dosage (whether it's one or two tablets) or else you will have a very dry and furry mouth the next morning. You will also feel groogy all day!
You could become dependant on it but it's not addictive. When I say dependant I mean that for now 1 tablet might work for you, but later on you will need more.
I would use it until you see your doctor in two weeks. Another over the counter med I have used it dramamine (sp?) - tablets to stop you from getting motion sickness.
It would make sense that if the Benadryl helps you fall sleep at a "normal" time then your body will not want to continue sleeping until noon the next day - but hey, common sense isn't always common, so who knows. :-)
Pleasant dreams.
Max
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 5, 2003, at 17:18:48
In reply to Benadryl, posted by kalyb on June 5, 2003, at 15:58:20
> I know this topic has been raised before but I can't find any relevant posts....
>
> I've been having trouble getting off to sleep since I started taking Effexor, and I understand taking benadryl at bedtime can help. I'm often lying awake till 4am or so, and then once asleep I sleep soooo long, not waking till noon some days! Though, I did that before the Effexor, so, hey...Benadryl seems appropriate, then, as it reduces sleep latency (the length of time it takes to fall asleep).
> Anyway I'll look in the local pharmacy tomorrow to see how much it costs - I think here in the UK it's pretty darn expensive... from memory, about £5 - £7 for only 12 tablets (that would be around $7-$10).
Look for the generic, diphenhydramine. I can't believe the price you pay. Gad!
> In the meantime, can anyone answer these for me...
>
> * How much to take1 or 2, 25 mg capsules/tablets.
> * Whether I'd be likely to sleep even longer in the mornings !
No, it should have worn off by then. You'll likely "reset your clock", so you're waking more nearly when you'd expect (because you'd start to sleep more nearly when you'd expect).
> * Could I become dependent on it?You could become tolerant, fer sure. Dependency would require more time. 10 days straight is the maximum recommended time-frame, without medical supervision.
> * Is there anything else I can get over the counter in the Uk which would do as well, preferably cheaper?Don't know that.
> * Should I just wait and talk to my pdoc with this when I see him in 2 weeks time?No, not if your sleep is that screwed up. (My non-medical opinion.) You'll have something to report (success or failure).
> and
>
> * Can someone send me a plane ticket so I can go to WalMarts and buy a big tub of 100 for $4....? (j/k).Actually, that's about what they cost. It's *almost* worth the trip.
> Cheers,
>
> Kalyb xxGood luck,
Lar
Posted by McPac on June 5, 2003, at 17:22:11
In reply to Benadryl, posted by kalyb on June 5, 2003, at 15:58:20
"Can someone send me a plane ticket so I can go to WalMarts and buy a big tub of 100 for $4....?"
Which airline?
Posted by Snoozy on June 5, 2003, at 17:39:36
In reply to Benadryl, posted by kalyb on June 5, 2003, at 15:58:20
I've been using Benadryl (diphenhydramine) as an occasional sleep aid for several years. I think things have been pretty well covered in previous posts. It's an antihistamine, so sometimes it does double duty for me when I'm having allergies. There is another OTC antihistamine with sedating qualities here in the US, I don't remember the name though. Perhaps you could ask your pharmacist (chemist?) about this.
Another nice thing about Benadryl is that it has some anti-nausea effects. Not very pronounced, but it has helped me with that occasionally. I don't find that I have any depressive hangovers like I have had with some sleeping pills. There may be some grogginess in the morning, but not a depressed feeling (for me at least).
Over here it usually comes in 25mg tablets, and I take one. If you do try it, you may want to do so when you don't have to get up and going early, to see if you do have any hangover.
*It takes about one hour for the drowsiness to kick in, unlike the 15-30 minutes with sleeping pills.
I don't know if you've looked into the possibility of ordering some online, but isn't the exchange rate favorable for you? The generic I buy at my drugstore is pretty inexpensive.
Hope this helps!
Posted by kalyb on June 5, 2003, at 17:50:13
In reply to Re: Benadryl, posted by McPac on June 5, 2003, at 17:22:11
> "Can someone send me a plane ticket so I can go to WalMarts and buy a big tub of 100 for $4....?"
>
> Which airline?Ooooh..... not fussy... though I do like British Airways.... ;)
Kalyb xx
Posted by paxvox on June 5, 2003, at 18:17:57
In reply to Re: Benadryl, posted by kalyb on June 5, 2003, at 17:50:13
Well I know you Brits like to charge a pound or two for a pint that would be about a dollar here in the U.S. So, I guess that price correlation must apply to your meds as well. Benadyl as diphenhydramine, is VERY cheap here, like 3 dollars for 100 25mg caps. I have taken it for years as 25-50 mg about an hour befor bed. It *helps*, but is not the best med for sleep, nor will it help some people that much who have chronic insomnia (like me) where multi-medication is required to induce sleep. You may also want to consider taking valerian root capsules. It has been used for years to help sleep problems,and has no side effects that I am aware of (except that it smells terrible!). I also took that for years before I was able to get a reliable script for benzos. As far as the generic Benadryl, I don't think that there would be any rules precluding you purchasing it in the U.S. to be shipped to you in the UK,as it is not a controlled substance. Or you could find one of your American friends who would send you a few hundred in a mailing that might cost $10 to mail to the UK and $5-6 for the meds. That would hold you over for a few months. I will note here that I am not suggesting that you do anything that might be illegal for you in the UK. I work for the US Postal Service, and I can find no rule in the International Mail Manual that says it cannot be mailed to the UK (each country has its own importation rules). So, hope that helps.
PAX
Posted by kalyb on June 6, 2003, at 9:41:04
In reply to Re: Benadryl, posted by paxvox on June 5, 2003, at 18:17:57
Paxvox wrote:
> Well I know you Brits like to charge a pound or two for a pint that would be about a dollar here in the U.S.Yikes!! try about £3 a pint... which at the exchange rate of 1.662 USD to the GBP, that's $5....!
>Benadyl as diphenhydramine, is VERY cheap here, like 3 dollars for 100 25mg caps.
Woweeeeeeee......... that's like... um.... £1.80 for 100 caps!!! You have to be joking!
Well I went to the pharmacy today to get another scrip for Effexor (can't believe I've been on it a month already) and did some checking out of the Benadryl family available here.
That was an eye-opener. It seems that we have two main kinds of Benadryl here (apart from the one which also relieves congestion - those I didn't look at). But none of them contain Diphenhydramine!!
The two kinds I looked at contained Cetirizine hydrochloride, and Acrivastine. These two drugs appeared to be the major ingredients in all the other allergy meds we can get over the counter here too. None of them had diphenhydramine. How odd.
And I was about right with the price. 12 tablets are about a fiver (£5) = $8.31 ... 24 tablets circa £7.99 = $13.27 ...
>You may also want to consider taking valerian root capsules.
I used to take tincture of Valerian for period pain and also as an occasional sleep remedy. BUT I would not want to use it regularly. Valerian is the natural source of the drug in Valium, and because of that, it can be addictive or at least habit-forming. But we can get valerian root capsules available in pharmacies here over the counter. Might consider trying it, but does valium interact with some AD's?
> As far as the generic Benadryl, I don't think that there would be any rules precluding you purchasing it in the U.S. to be shipped to you in the UK,as it is not a controlled substance.
Thinking about it, as it's not in the Benadryl available over here, diphenhydramine *might well* be a controlled substance - what we'd term a Prescription Only Medicine. Our drug laws are very strange...
> Or you could find one of your American friends who would send you a few hundred in a mailing that might cost $10 to mail to the UK and $5-6 for the meds. That would hold you over for a few months. I will note here that I am not suggesting that you do anything that might be illegal for you in the UK. I work for the US Postal Service, and I can find no rule in the International Mail Manual that says it cannot be mailed to the UK (each country has its own importation rules). So, hope that helps.
Cheers, mate. No I wouldn't do anything illegal - but it's often hard to find information on what is legal to bring in. Asking one of my american friends is an option, though if it got intercepted at this end, it might get confiscated and I'd never get it . Worse case scenario, it gets confiscated AND I get a uniform knocking on the door....
Much easier just to bring it back with me after a trip, 'cos I could probably blag my way out of that if they found it in my suitcase. And I'd get a nice holiday too..... fun in the sun!! I find it hard to be depressed in hot weather!! Shame I'm broke..... lol
:)
Kalyb xx
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 6, 2003, at 10:05:20
In reply to Benadryl different in UK...!! » paxvox, posted by kalyb on June 6, 2003, at 9:41:04
> >Benadyl as diphenhydramine, is VERY cheap here, like 3 dollars for 100 25mg caps.
>
> Woweeeeeeee......... that's like... um.... £1.80 for 100 caps!!! You have to be joking!Nope. No joke.
> Thinking about it, as it's not in the Benadryl available over here, diphenhydramine *might well* be a controlled substance - what we'd term a Prescription Only Medicine. Our drug laws are very strange...Did you ask? They may just keep it behind the counter. Or elsewhere than where you looked. Just a thought.
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 6, 2003, at 10:12:33
In reply to Benadryl different in UK...!! » paxvox, posted by kalyb on June 6, 2003, at 9:41:04
According to the U.K. drug formulary, diphenhydramine is marketed as Nytol and Medinex. You can also get Benadryl branded diphenhydramine from UK-based suppliers (according to Google).Lar
Posted by kalyb on June 6, 2003, at 15:46:14
In reply to Re: Benadryl different in UK...!! » kalyb, posted by Larry Hoover on June 6, 2003, at 10:12:33
Thanks Larry!
I've done some Googling myself and so far, not found a UK supplier of diphenhydramine benadryl. But I did find a reference on a forum (somewhere) that Benadryl in the Uk no longer contains diphenhydramine, so they must have removed it for some reason!
I forgot to look for Nytol in the pharmacy - this would seem the better option, if I can get it and they haven't removed that too. I'll pop in there tomorrow and ask - Nytol's a little cheaper than the Benadryl we get here anyway!
Cheers,
kalyb xx
Posted by djmmm on June 6, 2003, at 16:27:21
In reply to Re: Benadryl different in UK...!! » Larry Hoover, posted by kalyb on June 6, 2003, at 15:46:14
> Thanks Larry!
>
> I've done some Googling myself and so far, not found a UK supplier of diphenhydramine benadryl. But I did find a reference on a forum (somewhere) that Benadryl in the Uk no longer contains diphenhydramine, so they must have removed it for some reason!
>
> I forgot to look for Nytol in the pharmacy - this would seem the better option, if I can get it and they haven't removed that too. I'll pop in there tomorrow and ask - Nytol's a little cheaper than the Benadryl we get here anyway!
>
> Cheers,
>
> kalyb xxThe Uk version of Benadryl contains the non-sedating antihistamine acrivastine, there is also Benadryl Plus which contains acrivastine and pseudoephedrine. Warner-Lambert also markets a longer acting Benadryl in the UK which contains cetirizine. The only dyphenhydramine Benadryl product in the UK is a skin cream.
It seems that Warner-Lambert develops the Benadryl (only containing a non-sedating antihistamine) for European countries, while the Pfizer division of Warner-Lambert, develops the dyphenhydramine version for the US/Canada market.
Posted by Boba Fat on June 6, 2003, at 18:12:35
In reply to Re: Benadryl different in UK...!!, posted by djmmm on June 6, 2003, at 16:27:21
There are loads of sedating antihistamines available over the counter at UK chemists, just ask the pharmacist. Not as cheap as in America I'm afraid but they are available. I used to succesfully use Boots own version of Piriton (chlorpheniramine maleate) which is cheap as chips but not quite as sedating as the more expensive Nytol combined with valerian.
Posted by slinky on June 6, 2003, at 19:34:37
In reply to Re: Benadryl different in UK...!!, posted by Boba Fat on June 6, 2003, at 18:12:35
I took nytol when on zoloft because of insomnia...it does help.
There is a herbal nytol that's useless..so make sure you buy the right one.
Posted by paxvox on June 6, 2003, at 19:53:04
In reply to Benadryl different in UK...!! » paxvox, posted by kalyb on June 6, 2003, at 9:41:04
Just for information, Valerian is *not* the source of Valium, and is in no way chemically related, or addictive. As a matter of fact, in the May issue of Clinical Pyschiatry News (p.48) there is an article about a double-blind study done with Valerian that concluded that "An herbal supplement containing valerian significantly improved sleep-onset insomnia". This was reported by Paul Mills,Phd, in Salt Lake City, UT USA during the annual meeting of the society of Behavioral Medicine. The target amount of valerian was 160mg. The particular herbal med was called "Blissful Sleep", a product made by Maharishi Ayurvedic Products International, in Colarado Springs, CO. USA. Dr. Mills stated in his report that it was most likely the valerian that helped with sleep,although this herbal product was a combination of several other drugs, none known to have psychoactive properties (and thus legal for sale in the U.S.). I really don't think it is illegal to send diphenhydramine into the UK from what I found in the IMM (International Mail Manual). The UK is a member of the Inernational Mail Union that sets up laws for international mailing. Email me at paxvox2000atscdotrrdotcom and I will discuss the issue further with you.
PAX
Posted by Caleb462 on June 6, 2003, at 23:54:40
In reply to Benadryl, posted by kalyb on June 5, 2003, at 15:58:20
> I know this topic has been raised before but I can't find any relevant posts....
>
> I've been having trouble getting off to sleep since I started taking Effexor, and I understand taking benadryl at bedtime can help. I'm often lying awake till 4am or so, and then once asleep I sleep soooo long, not waking till noon some days! Though, I did that before the Effexor, so, hey...
>
> Anyway I'll look in the local pharmacy tomorrow to see how much it costs - I think here in the UK it's pretty darn expensive... from memory, about £5 - £7 for only 12 tablets (that would be around $7-$10).
>
> In the meantime, can anyone answer these for me...
>
> * How much to take
>
> * Whether I'd be likely to sleep even longer in the mornings !
>
> * Could I become dependent on it?
>
> * Is there anything else I can get over the counter in the Uk which would do as well, preferably cheaper?
>
> * Should I just wait and talk to my pdoc with this when I see him in 2 weeks time?
>
> and
>
> * Can someone send me a plane ticket so I can go to WalMarts and buy a big tub of 100 for $4....? (j/k).
>
> Cheers,
>
> Kalyb xxFor occasional insomnia, it's not a bad choice at all. But I personally couldn't use it as a sleep aid every night or even every other night because tolerance develops FAST... for me, atleast. It's not always effective either, and there are certainly better drugs for sleep, but as an OTC sleep aid - it ain't bad. Morning hangover - 30 minutes at most.
For me-
25 mg - Nothing.
50 mg - Moderately effective.
Over 50 mg - Weird, and not advised.
Posted by zenhussy on June 7, 2003, at 0:03:20
In reply to Re: Benadryl different in UK...!!, posted by paxvox on June 6, 2003, at 19:53:04
>>> Just for information, Valerian is *not* the source of Valium, and is in no way chemically related, or addictive. <<<
As a matter of fact, in the May issue of Clinical Pyschiatry News (p.48) there is an article about a double-blind study done with Valerian that concluded that "An herbal supplement containing valerian significantly improved sleep-onset insomnia". This was reported by Paul Mills,Phd, in Salt Lake City, UT USA during the annual meeting of the society of Behavioral Medicine. The target amount of valerian was 160mg. The particular herbal med was called "Blissful Sleep", a product made by Maharishi Ayurvedic Products International, in Colarado Springs, CO. USA. Dr. Mills stated in his report that it was most likely the valerian that helped with sleep,although this herbal product was a combination of several other drugs, none known to have psychoactive properties (and thus legal for sale in the U.S.). I really don't think it is illegal to send diphenhydramine into the UK from what I found in the IMM (International Mail Manual). The UK is a member of the Inernational Mail Union that sets up laws for international mailing. Email me at paxvox2000atscdotrrdotcom and I will discuss the issue further with you.
>
>
> PAX
Posted by kalyb on June 16, 2003, at 10:10:40
In reply to Re: Benadryl different in UK...!!, posted by djmmm on June 6, 2003, at 16:27:21
Just posting a few notes on this, maybe someone in the UK in future might need to know about obtaining Diphenhydramine here. Hopefully they'll be able to find these notes in the archives!
When I collected my allowance last week I had a look round the local pharmacy and found their own generic version of Nytol. The one I got was Lloyd's Pharmacy Extra Strength Sleep Aid, which was 20 tablets of 50mg diphenhydramine, and cost me £3.89 (approx.$6.50). Nytol was more expensive!!
I've been using it for about 5 days and yes, I noticed an immediate improvement of the insomnia, being able to fall asleep much faster than before. No more tossing and turning till dawn. Yippee!
Kalyb xx
This is the end of the thread.
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