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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 25. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Taylor123 on May 9, 2003, at 14:37:10
HEY ALL,
THIS IS A DELICATE SUBJECT, AND TAKES QUITE A LOT TO TALK ABOUT... MY ARMS ARE COVERED IN SCARS FROM CUTTING. I KNOW I AM NOT AN ISOLATED CASE, BUT THE CIRCUMSTANCES IN WHICH I STARTED SELF-HARMING ARE NOT COMMON (I THINK)
I ONLY STARTED SELF-HARMING, AFTER TAKING CIPRAMIL (CITALOPRAM- SSRI). USUALLY IT'S THE OTHER WAY ROUND. I WONDER IF TAKING THE ROUTE OF PSYCHOTROPIC DRUGS WAS THE WRONG THING, IN ORDER TO TREAT MY DEPRESSION. (THOUGH I WAS VERY BAD.)
I AM NOW OFF THE CIPRAMIL NOW AND AM CURRENTLY WELL (THANK GOD)ON EFFEXOR (225MG) AND LITHIUM (600MG)
I WONDER IF ANYONE HAS ANY FEEDBACK/CASES OF SSRI'S DRIVING THE BRAIN TO THIS SORT OF BEHAVIOUR? MY RESEARCH HAS ONLY REVEALED THAT SUICIDE RATES ARE INCREASED DURING THE INITIATION OF TREATMENT, BUT I BELIEVE THAT IS BECAUSE OF RETURN OF DAILY FUNCTION, AND HENCE ABILITY TO CARRY OUT PLANS OF DELIBERATE SELF-HARM.
IT'S NOT A PLEASANT SUBJECT I KNOW, AND I'M SORRY IF IT OFFENDS ANYONE, BUT I REALLY WOULD LIKE TO UNDERSTAND WHAT HAS BEEN HAPPENING TO ME OVER THE LAST 2 YEARS.
ANY SCAR TREATMENTS ANYONE CAN RECOMMEND? I HAVE TRIED POPPING VIT E CAPSULES OVER MY SKIN... NO RESULTS SO FAR.
I CAN'T WEAR T-SHIRTS OR ANYTHING WHICH EXPOSES MY ARMS.
THANX FOR ANY FEEDBACK.
GOOD LUCK ALL
Posted by noa on May 10, 2003, at 17:29:34
In reply to SCARS - ANYTHING TO DO WITH MEDS?, posted by Taylor123 on May 9, 2003, at 14:37:10
SSRIs affect differenet people in different ways. Some people find that they are somewhat agitating. They can also be disinhibiting. It sounds like you should discuss with your pdoc switching to a different antidepressant if you feel this one is stimulating you to cut.
Posted by fanni on May 13, 2003, at 15:00:59
In reply to SCARS - ANYTHING TO DO WITH MEDS?, posted by Taylor123 on May 9, 2003, at 14:37:10
no fuck it if it offends anyone!people dont stimatise you if you have bronchitis,so why should they if youre so depressed you can only get it out by slashing yourself?!sorry to rant,its just something i feel stongly about.cant stand smug assholes who try and belittle you,just cos one is down.the first time i cut myself was when i was on prozac at 14,my shrink that im seeing now was telling me when i tried lexapro how this sometimes happens in the initiation period of ssris,when the depression begins to lift and your brain becomes active again. vit e like your taking helps,so does evening primrose oil,capulses or topical.aloe vera's great too.hope this is of some help.
Posted by fanni on May 13, 2003, at 15:00:59
In reply to SCARS - ANYTHING TO DO WITH MEDS?, posted by Taylor123 on May 9, 2003, at 14:37:10
no fuck it if it offends anyone!people dont stimatise you if you have bronchitis,so why should they if youre so depressed you can only get it out by slashing yourself?!sorry to rant,its just something i feel stongly about.cant stand smug assholes who try and belittle you,just cos one is down.the first time i cut myself was when i was on prozac at 14,my shrink that im seeing now was telling me when i tried lexapro how this sometimes happens in the initiation period of ssris,when the depression begins to lift and your brain becomes active again. vit e like your taking helps,so does evening primrose oil,capulses or topical.aloe vera's great too.hope this is of some help.
Posted by Taylor123 on May 13, 2003, at 17:00:58
In reply to Re: SCARS - ANYTHING TO DO WITH MEDS?, posted by fanni on May 13, 2003, at 15:00:59
hey fanni,
All I can say is..........
THANKYOU
It's so nice to see that someone understands. And I don't mean that some doc is sitting there going "Yes, I know that you feel cutting may ease your pain."
Thankyou for sharing, and promoting non-judgemental behaviour! You're so right: bronchitis, appendicitis, you name it, the person is the victim... anything mildly associated with "the mind", then it's something the person has brought on themselves.
I will try evening primrose oil, and aloa-vera. And hope that with time the ugly scars fade.
Thanx
Best wishes
Taylor
Posted by Snoozy on May 13, 2003, at 20:19:06
In reply to Re: SCARS - ANYTHING TO DO WITH MEDS?FANNI, posted by Taylor123 on May 13, 2003, at 17:00:58
Hi Taylor -
I just wanted to let you know that I have some scars on my arm from cutting, and they did get better over time (and I do wear short sleeves). The only thing I can add about minimizing scars is that if the wounds are fresh, to keep them clean.
I was in extraordinary mental pain when I did this, and I hope that you are able to find some relief from your pain whether through meds or therapy. I know it's a terrible place to be in. Good luck to you.
Posted by Dr. Bob on May 14, 2003, at 0:54:47
In reply to Re: SCARS - ANYTHING TO DO WITH MEDS?, posted by fanni on May 13, 2003, at 15:00:59
> no f*ck it if it offends anyone!people dont stimatise you if you have bronchitis,so why should they if youre so depressed you can only get it out by slashing yourself?!sorry to rant,its just something i feel stongly about.
I feel strongly about stigma, too, but please don't use language that could offend others, thanks:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Bob
Posted by fanni on May 14, 2003, at 14:59:43
In reply to Re: please be civil » fanni, posted by Dr. Bob on May 14, 2003, at 0:54:47
but its an ancient anglo saxon word! but i see your point. i'll curb my tounge in future.
Posted by fanni on May 14, 2003, at 15:04:17
In reply to Re: SCARS - ANYTHING TO DO WITH MEDS?FANNI, posted by Taylor123 on May 13, 2003, at 17:00:58
hiya taylor,
cool,glad if that helped!one thing i do sometimes,to cover up my arms is wear sort of stylised 'arm warmers', now its coming into summer that kind of works and also cos the whole 'retro' thing is back in fashion it can sorta look funky,but it depends how you like to dress i guess!oh,e-45 cream is another good one to try.
Posted by Rob L. on May 15, 2003, at 1:26:33
In reply to Re: SCARS - ANYTHING TO DO WITH MEDS?FANNI, posted by fanni on May 14, 2003, at 15:04:17
If it is of any help, I have alot of scars from cutting myself. Some were done in angry psychotic states and others were done while on ssri's. I personally don't mind if people see my scars because with, few exceptions(an employer for example), I don't mind telling people about them and the stories behind them. I know that you wouldn't be rash about it, but just in case, if I were you I would give it alot of thought before showing yours. And, it's great that you are where you are now and thank God that you are. That's cool.
Oh, and Fanni, right on. I believe that more of us that have psychiatric illnesses shouldn't be stigmatised. I beilieve that people need to be better educated. This stigmatising has got to go. It just makes our chemical imabalances that much more difficult to deal with.
For what it is worth,
Rob
Posted by Taylor123 on May 15, 2003, at 16:02:55
In reply to SCARS - ANYTHING TO DO WITH MEDS?, posted by Taylor123 on May 9, 2003, at 14:37:10
Hey guys,
I just wanted to say that your feedback has warmed me. Thank you.
I feel better just knowing that I am not alone in this desperate search for inner peace.
That is not to say that I take comfort in the suffering of others, but feel uplifted by your positive attitudes.
I still have a long way to go before I can say that I have fully recovered, but i am starting my 2nd month without cutting.
I wish I had the confidence to leave them uncovered, but am afraid of the stigma. It's sad to say, but I am a health care professional, and you would think that collegues would be the most understanding. Unfortunatly not.
I will try the arm covers- fanni, and will think about options in the future about accepting that they are now a part of me, and people can take me or leave me... how they find me!
Thank you for sharing guys, and I hope that your journies are smooth from here on in.
Take care
Gratefully,
Taylor
Posted by Dr. Bob on May 15, 2003, at 20:07:14
In reply to Re: please be civil, posted by fanni on May 14, 2003, at 14:59:43
Posted by McPac on May 15, 2003, at 22:00:00
In reply to Re: SCARS » Taylor123, posted by Snoozy on May 13, 2003, at 20:19:06
Can someone here explain WHY you cut? Does it release tension or depression? Thanks.
Posted by Taylor123 on May 16, 2003, at 2:12:02
In reply to Cutting, looking for answers....Re: SCARS, posted by McPac on May 15, 2003, at 22:00:00
> Can someone here explain WHY you cut? Does it release tension or depression? Thanks.
Hey McPac,
hope all is well for you.
The theory behind it (in some texts) is that it provides momentary relief from the pain that you are feeling inside.
However, in reality, I guess it's quite different. I don't really get relief from cutting. I guess initially it was a way of making my pain tangible. If you have a broken arm, it is outwardly visible, and people can see you're in pain. It's not like I wanted people to know, because I hid them for 6 months without anyone seeing. But it was a way of justifying my mental anguish, to MYSELF, by turning it into something physical. ( I guess maybe something easier to understand?)
It was also an attempt at cutting my arteries on some occassions.
There is perhaps also an obsessive component. I have OCD, and perhaps for me, once I had started it became VERY hard to stop. A coping mechanism, I guess. Especially in stressful times.
I can only speak for myself, because I think that everyone has different thought processes, and would not want to comment on behalf of anyone else.
So, that's my experience.
I will say that any slight relief I got was fleeting, and then the vicious circle would start again, and I would hate myself for having another big ugly scar.
That's the best explanation i can give.Hope to hear back from anyone regarding this, because it would help immensly to hear other people's thought processes.
Good luck all,
Stay well.
Taylor
Posted by Mama Bear on May 16, 2003, at 17:32:01
In reply to SCARS - ANYTHING TO DO WITH MEDS?, posted by Taylor123 on May 9, 2003, at 14:37:10
My daughter who is 5 years old was put on the antipsychotic medication called Respirdal. I know that many of these psychiatric medication alter the dopamine in the brain which in turn makes you do things that are not your normal way of doing things. Are you still self mutiliating or has this stopped. Have you ever considered going to see a naturopathic doctor to see if you could come off the medication. I will never again believe in psychiatric medications. The Respirdal that my 5 yr old was on caused the permanent side effect called Tardive Dyskinesia. This is irreversable damage and it is also psychiatry's secret. If I were you I would seek some out some answers and do you research on all the medication(s) that you are taking. Do your homework. A good friend of mine just lost her Aunt because the medication gave her suicidal thoughts. Not only did it give her suicidal thoughts she commited suicide and leaves behind 2 young children. These medications have some good things about them but there is a very dark side to alot of these medications. If you were depressed before they can intensify the depression or in your case caused you to self mutilate. As far as the scars go, I just recently had a breast reduction and I find that vitamin E oil, not capsules, work quite well for me. You can also find some really good scar reducures at a health food store or even try wal-mart. The oil you can get at Wal-mart. It comes in a little glass jar. It has worked pretty good for me. Ask the pharmasist for help. I hope this has helped. Mama Bear
Posted by Caleb462 on May 17, 2003, at 3:06:36
In reply to Cutting, looking for answers....Re: SCARS, posted by McPac on May 15, 2003, at 22:00:00
> Can someone here explain WHY you cut? Does it release tension or depression? Thanks.
For me, it does - although I have mostly gotten over my cutting/hitting myself habit. For me, it was always - I feel horrible, I need to do something horrible. A way of physically expressing my mental/emotional state to myself and to others. It was also a way of self-punishment that I sometimes felt I deserved, I have major guilt issues.
And there is a physical component to it, pain elicits the release of enodrphins - and I've often experienced a momentary feeling of relaxation and tension relief after a cutting/hitting episode.
Posted by Dinah on May 17, 2003, at 13:24:14
In reply to Cutting, looking for answers....Re: SCARS, posted by McPac on May 15, 2003, at 22:00:00
It can definitely release tension. But I alone have a number of reasons I do it. I'm sure that among all self injurers, the reasons are legion.
Right now, my urges are building. I suspect it has something to do with going off Depakote (with my pdoc's blessing) a couple of weeks ago. The resulting itchy crawly feeling of overstimulation is causing me urges. If it gets any worse, I'm going back on the Depakote.
If you want more information on self injury, I really recommend the site:
Posted by fanni on May 17, 2003, at 13:33:43
In reply to Re: SCARS - ANYTHING TO DO WITH MEDS?FANNI, posted by Rob L. on May 15, 2003, at 1:26:33
its true,rob,
stigmatising people for having psychiatric quirks or imbalances is every bit as stupid as if you were to point at someone with their leg in a cast and say,'haha,look at that sap!'. definitely,education is needed.its come on leaps and bounds compared to 50 years ago,or whenever it was lobotomy was still routine!scary thought,innit?!least know theres more emphasis on therapy,getting to the real root of the person and the problems they may have and building them up from there.
Posted by maryhelen on May 17, 2003, at 13:38:07
In reply to Re: Cutting, looking for answers....Re: SCARS, posted by Caleb462 on May 17, 2003, at 3:06:36
I am not a cutter.
Since my own difficulties with depression and pain medication followed by 5 hospitilization and 3 substance abuse programs I have met a lot of people, with a multitude of different psychiatric problems. Personally, I have never met a person who cuts themselves. I would imagine there would have been cutters but, if so, it was 'hidden' either by staff or the patient, being afraid of others not understanding and choosing not to. Or from, the staff, the shock of seeing all the cuts could be upsetting to other patients. Too bad. Of course, I am only speculating and do not know this as being a fact ...but I wonder.
I wonder if cutting is not at the forefront along with all other different 'mental illnesses' because it it too hard for them to come forth and when they do get the standard responses as the rest of us, and so the person goes back into hiding. Our pain doesn't show on the outside, there's does, but there should be no difference.
I was watching a television show on cutters but had come in late. This show was excellent becasue it focus on a number of girls who were cutters and therefore, you get a great deal of information and perspective and understanding that you wouldn't get with a clinical review from a doctor.
The thing that struck me was, as another poster said, for the person cutting they get some relief from the emotional pain they are in because endorphins are released and endorphins can make us feel good. Runners get endorphins, so not suprising a lot get addicted to running.
I guess my point is, if a cutter gets some relief, no matter how small, like a runner, in my mind I can see why they would continue to cut.
Sadly, some of the stories on this showed, that when some of the girls went for help because she cut too deep, the treatment received at the emergency department was deplorable. It would show that in almost every facet of life cutting is the least understood and, somehow, needs to be brought to the forefront.
Many of us drank, did drugs, pain meds, anything to get some refief from the depression
and that seems unacceptably, acceptable.What is the difference for the cutter.
Just quickly, to end, they profiled ONE doctor that these girls could see and his approach has helped almost all the girls. Why is there only one. (there may be more but the show couldn't find anyone else). Sorry, I can't remember the name of the program but if I see that it is coming on again I'll let you know. I wish they had more like it.
I am a little reluctant to send this post because I am not a cutter but I sure can relate the all the feelings that goes around it and I just want to lend my support.
maryhelen
Posted by fanni on May 17, 2003, at 13:39:50
In reply to Re: Cutting, looking for answers....Re: SCARS, posted by Taylor123 on May 16, 2003, at 2:12:02
your lucky to be asking, mcpac, that you never felt so bad and crazed inside with pain the only thing you can do is slash into yourself in pure frustration and pain and rage with the nearest sharp thing you can find.its a very sad thing.it makes no sense,but somehow after sometimes your left sort of blank,which may is a level up from where you were before.maybe it releases natural endorphins,i dunno.one things for sure though,anyone ive ever met who does it,barring 15 yr old mini rockers wrting 'satan rules' on their arm,its never for attention.
Posted by fanni on May 17, 2003, at 13:45:39
In reply to Re: SCARS - THANK YOU, posted by Taylor123 on May 15, 2003, at 16:02:55
cool,glad i could help.wish id found this website years ago when i was really bad!everyone is so sound on it.yeah and remember like rob said,if anyone asks you about your scars,dont be embarresed,theyre just a part of you,like someone going to ibiza on a drunken holiday and getting bart simpson smoking a spliff tattooed on their ass! (i knew someone who had this done,its true!)
Posted by Dr. Bob on May 18, 2003, at 14:58:01
In reply to Cutting, looking for answers....Re: SCARS, posted by McPac on May 15, 2003, at 22:00:00
> Can someone here explain WHY you cut?
Great question, but since it doesn't involve medication, I'd like any further follow-ups to it to be redirected to Psycho-Social-Babble, thanks.
Bob
PS: And any follow-ups regarding posting policies to be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration.
Posted by katia on May 18, 2003, at 15:36:22
In reply to Redirect: Cutting, looking for answers, posted by Dr. Bob on May 18, 2003, at 14:58:01
Where did you re-direct this? I didn't see it in socialbabble. I'd like to comment on this thread.
do I just start the new one there?
thanks.
katia> > Can someone here explain WHY you cut?
>
> Great question, but since it doesn't involve medication, I'd like any further follow-ups to it to be redirected to Psycho-Social-Babble, thanks.
>
> Bob
>
> PS: And any follow-ups regarding posting policies to be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration.
Posted by Dr. Bob on May 21, 2003, at 13:31:56
In reply to Re: Redirect: Cutting, looking for answers » Dr. Bob, posted by katia on May 18, 2003, at 15:36:22
> Where did you re-direct this? I didn't see it in socialbabble. I'd like to comment on this thread.
> do I just start the new one there?If I don't move something over myself, it's fine to start a new thread yourself -- which you can do just by redirecting your follow-up. But here you go:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20030517/msgs/228095.html
Bob
Posted by katia on May 21, 2003, at 16:35:37
In reply to Re: Redirect: Cutting, looking for answers, posted by Dr. Bob on May 21, 2003, at 13:31:56
This is the end of the thread.
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