Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 135426

Shown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

abilify for social anxiety?

Posted by jonh kimble on January 11, 2003, at 20:52:06

this abilify sounds rather interesting. apparently it can have pro dopaminergic effects at low doses, which is just what I need. Anybody found it effective for sociability, negative thinking, depression etc... Thanks

 

Tarditive dyskinsia won't help you get laid =)

Posted by utopizen on January 12, 2003, at 1:05:03

In reply to abilify for social anxiety?, posted by jonh kimble on January 11, 2003, at 20:52:06

> this abilify sounds rather interesting. apparently it can have pro dopaminergic effects at low doses, which is just what I need. Anybody found it effective for sociability, negative thinking, depression etc... Thanks
>>>

I'm not sure the severity of your social anxiety, or if you have an accompanying psychosis or anxiety psychosis, but Abilify is something to be cautious over if you do not have these disorders.

If you do not have psychosis or anxiety psychosis or some very rare, debiliating form of social anxiety in which no drugs available have succeeded and you are not able to leave your house ever as a result, then, maybe, with exercised caution and a willingness to tolerate the 4% probabability you will have tarditive dyskinsia, and won't care if you're flapping your arms and legs uncontrolablly at some point in the future for the rest of your life, then yes, maybe, the dopaminergic effects sound interesting.

Otherwise, they sound like hell to me, and I'm happy to take the Klonopin and chill. Heck, it's not even likely (or at least established) it'll work so well on social anxiety anyhow.

And dopaminergic effect might sound cool, but it's still poking at the same part of your brain that a drill would during a lobotomy, so watch out. Side effects are anything but clean, and 4% is a rather large probabability when you consider it'll leave you looking like a monkey with Tourtette's for the rest of your life if you get it. And by then you'll be wishing social isolation was your being problem.

 

Re: Tarditive dyskinsia won't help you get laid =)

Posted by cybercafe on January 12, 2003, at 17:34:50

In reply to Tarditive dyskinsia won't help you get laid =), posted by utopizen on January 12, 2003, at 1:05:03


>
> I'm not sure the severity of your social anxiety, or if you have an accompanying psychosis or anxiety psychosis, but Abilify is something to be cautious over if you do not have these disorders.
>
> If you do not have psychosis or anxiety psychosis or some very rare, debiliating form of social anxiety in which no drugs available have succeeded and you are not able to leave your house ever as a result, then, maybe, with exercised caution and a willingness to tolerate the 4% probabability you will have tarditive dyskinsia, and won't care if you're flapping your arms and legs uncontrolablly at some point in the future for the rest of your life, then yes, maybe, the dopaminergic effects sound interesting.
>
> Otherwise, they sound like hell to me, and I'm happy to take the Klonopin and chill. Heck, it's not even likely (or at least established) it'll work so well on social anxiety anyhow.
>
> And dopaminergic effect might sound cool, but it's still poking at the same part of your brain that a drill would during a lobotomy, so watch out. Side effects are anything but clean, and 4% is a rather large probabability when you consider it'll leave you looking like a monkey with Tourtette's for the rest of your life if you get it. And by then you'll be wishing social isolation was your being problem.
>

oh has abilify been linked to tardive dyskinesias already?
or are you just quoting the rate for the average atypical?

 

getting laid isn't all there is

Posted by River1924 on January 12, 2003, at 19:15:20

In reply to abilify for social anxiety?, posted by jonh kimble on January 11, 2003, at 20:52:06

My social anxiety is very severe and I would be a introvert regardless. I've taken klonipin and an ssri for it and they are helpful. Since I began abilify, I go up to people I know in the grocery store, I call people on the phone, and I'm much more talkative. It does have side-effects: good-I have a social life and the motivation and pleasure of it; bad-a cerain restlessness and the possibility of long term effects. For me, there isn't a whole lot of choice. Abilify works for severe social malfunctioning. If, however, you can use cognitive therapy and other meds and get the same result, you should use those approaches.

 

Re: getting laid isn't all there is

Posted by agencypanic on January 12, 2003, at 22:03:06

In reply to getting laid isn't all there is, posted by River1924 on January 12, 2003, at 19:15:20

> Re: getting laid isn't all there is

Unless you're not getting laid.

 

Re: getting laid isn't all there is

Posted by utopizen on January 13, 2003, at 11:00:17

In reply to Re: getting laid isn't all there is, posted by agencypanic on January 12, 2003, at 22:03:06

> > Re: getting laid isn't all there is
>
> Unless you're not getting laid.

lol- was about to say same thing

 

Re: Tarditive dyskinsia won't help you get laid =)

Posted by oracle on January 13, 2003, at 11:25:10

In reply to Re: Tarditive dyskinsia won't help you get laid =), posted by cybercafe on January 12, 2003, at 17:34:50

> oh has abilify been linked to tardive dyskinesias already?
> or are you just quoting the rate for the average atypical?

No it is common sence. All AP's carry this warning. No reason to expect a new one that works through the same pathways to be any different.
Movement disorders and NMS are mentioned in the monograph:
http://www.bms.com/cgi-bin/anybin.pl?sql=select%20PPI%20from%20TB_PRODUCT_PPI%20where%20PPI_SEQ=101&key=PPI

 

Re: getting laid isn't all there is

Posted by lonesomeloser on January 13, 2003, at 21:10:11

In reply to getting laid isn't all there is, posted by River1924 on January 12, 2003, at 19:15:20

Are you a guy or a girl?

"Getting laid" can be a big deal to a guy with or without mental illness, who hasnt had sex for years.

I guess it isnt such a big deal with most women however.


>Re: getting laid isn't all there is:
> My social anxiety is very severe and I would be a introvert regardless. I've taken klonipin and an ssri for it and they are helpful. Since I began abilify, I go up to people I know in the grocery store, I call people on the phone, and I'm much more talkative. It does have side-effects: good-I have a social life and the motivation and pleasure of it; bad-a cerain restlessness and the possibility of long term effects. For me, there isn't a whole lot of choice. Abilify works for severe social malfunctioning. If, however, you can use cognitive therapy and other meds and get the same result, you should use those approaches.

 

Re: getting laid isn't all there is lonesomeloser

Posted by bozeman on January 13, 2003, at 22:16:51

In reply to Re: getting laid isn't all there is, posted by lonesomeloser on January 13, 2003, at 21:10:11

> Are you a guy or a girl?
>
> "Getting laid" can be a big deal to a guy with or without mental illness, who hasnt had sex for years.
>
> I guess it isnt such a big deal with most women however.
>

Sorry that your own experiences with women have (apparently) led you to believe that it isn't. Believe me, you couldn't be more wrong. =-} 'Nuff said.

 

Enough already

Posted by River1924 on January 13, 2003, at 22:27:32

In reply to Re: getting laid isn't all there is lonesomeloser, posted by bozeman on January 13, 2003, at 22:16:51

getting laid is great

without meds, I have no chance of even caring about sex, too depressed

without meds, I have no chance of sex because talking to new people or looking them in the eye is very hard

WITH most meds, I can't have sex

So for me, life on meds and off meds is a trade-off

My point was, Abilify, lets me get to know people and lets me be physically capable of the act BUT in the end, I can live without it if I'm happy, not suicidal, and enjoy being with people

Yes, I am a man. River

 

Re: getting laid isn't all there is

Posted by colin wallace on January 14, 2003, at 9:08:13

In reply to Re: getting laid isn't all there is, posted by utopizen on January 13, 2003, at 11:00:17

> > > Re: getting laid isn't all there is
> >
> > Unless you're not getting laid.
>
> lol- was about to say same thing


My own observation:

Pre-Lamictal I'd have had 'intimate relations' with a Vietnamese pot-bellied pig- now I'm a lot more choosy.

 

Re: getting laid isn't all there is

Posted by lonesomeloser on January 14, 2003, at 22:33:38

In reply to Re: getting laid isn't all there is lonesomeloser, posted by bozeman on January 13, 2003, at 22:16:51

> > Are you a guy or a girl?
> >
> > "Getting laid" can be a big deal to a guy with or without mental illness, who hasnt had sex for years.
> >
> > I guess it isnt such a big deal with most women however.
> >
>
> Sorry that your own experiences with women have (apparently) led you to believe that it isn't. Believe me, you couldn't be more wrong. =-} 'Nuff said.

I am not sure I understand what you are saying here, but I did not mean to be offensive, nor was I speaking about all women.

However there are two undeniable facts about women, mentally ill or not:

1. Any women can find and have sex much easier then any man. Thats just a fact of life.

2. Most women have a much harder time climaxing then most men.


Also, a recent poll of "normal" women indicated that a full 30 percent really did not care much about having sex on a regular basis( this poll did not factor in the intimacy involved, just the sex act itself, however).

Many married men seem to complain about a lack of sex in their relationships, indicating that the above poll has at least some validity to it.

 

Re: getting laid isn't all there is

Posted by syringachalet on January 14, 2003, at 22:58:06

In reply to Re: getting laid isn't all there is, posted by lonesomeloser on January 14, 2003, at 22:33:38

lonesomeloser,

I have had patients over the years that can confirm that the actual sex act is often more biologically needed for the male human than the female.

For all of us it is a biological release and for males it seems to be more pronounced.
My guess that it has to do with the often focused male approach to many things in daily life( the hunter complex) vs the female that is often exhibited by the ability to multitask at an early age( bake the cake, wash the clothes, feed the baby.. all corrdinated to go on at the same time)..

Maybe it is also the old Mars and Venus thing..men want sex and women want romance... face it,ladies, its tough to be thinking about love making when you have the cake burning, the baby crying and laudnry piled up to your A$$...

Just my thoughts....

syringachalet

 

Re: getting laid --- Sorry! lonesomeloser

Posted by bozeman on January 16, 2003, at 23:33:06

In reply to Re: getting laid isn't all there is, posted by lonesomeloser on January 14, 2003, at 22:33:38

You're right . . . reading it now, without taking into account what I was thinking at the time, it makes no sense whatsoever. Plus, I didn't mean for it to sound nearly as snippy or cryptic as it must have seemed. Sorry. You didn't upset me, and I hope I didn't upset you. You just got the muddy result of my frustration.

What I was *thinking* was, Gosh, I wish it was that simple, that sex wasn't that big of a deal. I have been celibate for ten years (that's right) not from lack of desire but to maintain a shred of sanity. Don't know if it's this way for anyone else, but for years for me, it was the only thing I *could* feel, everything else was monotone or nonexistent, so I have been supremely guilty in the past of using sex as a substitute for every other human interaction/emotion. (I suspect I'm probably not the only one who's ever done this.) This obviously comes at a high price and drags a lot of baggage, besides the obvious of being extremely dangerous -- with the risk of HIV et al, pregnancy, emotional and physical violence. And I suffered my share of the violence, both kinds. My seemingly sweet, faithful attentive ex-husband got me pregnant, then gave me a VD after we'd been married over a year, and got violent when I confronted him. As a result I lost the baby, left his sorry a$$ and went through a string of loser boyfriends that would make your head spin. I realized I was in trouble, addicted to feeling something, anything, and sex was all there was -- and tried to settle down, got engaged to a seemingly very nice, charming, attentive man, who after a year or so began to become more and more withdrawn, started accusing me of cheating on him (which regardless of how it might sound, I would never do), started following me around, even to work; said I was too demanding sexually (five or six times a week was too much for him), convinced me I was unattractive and sexually unappealing (while still accusing me of cheating on him, mind you), and the day he started throwing things and threatening me I walked out on him, too.

This was the final straw; my life was being endangered by this pseudo-addiction (pseudo only because the sex wasn't the ultimate goal, feeling an emotion was.) I spent several days rocking back and forth on the bed, had what you might call a "mini-breakdown" and when pseudo-sanity returned, realized that the only solution was to quit, cold-turkey. That was over ten years ago. I had to dig into my psyche and face the things that were driving me to such destructive behavior, and I'm a stubborn jerk sometimes, so it took a really long time. In and out of therapy for years -- it's only been in the last year that I've faced facts and admitted I had a problem I couldn't solve on my own, and in the last few months that I gave in to the doctors and agreed to try an AD (Lexapro) and good Lord, what a difference!!!! I can finally feel things again!!!! This makes purging all that poisonous crap out of my psyche possible.

I have been in a wonderful relationship with a sane, gentle man for over a year, who knows about my past and insisted that we not become physically involved until I can do it without harming myself. (We both agree I'm not quite there yet. :) However!!!! My basic constitution has not changed, I still think about sex all the time (admittedly not as frequently or as urgently as before), but at least I can laugh at myself about it now. Ironically, one of the side effects everyone complains about with AD's is the loss/diminishment of sex drive. For me, diminished sex drive was a blessing from God!!! Three and a half wonderful months of not thinking about it every waking moment, lots of discipline and prayer, and I'm getting past it. (Or maybe I'm kidding myself and if I went off the Lexapro I'd be right back where I started.) The last few weeks, the drive is back, strongly, but not so urgently as before, so now I can learn how to process and deal with it without going off the deep end.

I know I am the exception rather than the rule, but every woman I know who I'm close enough friends with to discuss it, says she would like to have sex more often -- if it wasn't such a hassle. Worrying about birth control, getting enough sleep, making schedules match, or how attractive she thinks she is or isn't, etc. just kills all their spontaniety. The biggest complaint I hear from them is that, for the men in their lives, sex is in the "utility" category, like taking a shower or cleaning the refrigerator -- something they like to do quickly and efficiently and move on to the next thing -- while for the women, it's like playing music or painting a landscape, something you express yourself by pouring your emotions and soul into. Of course, I can't argue with them either way, or they'd know the state I'm in (no one knows but my boyfriend, I haven't even been able to confess this to my doctor, he knows the pieces but not the story unless he's figured it out on his own.) What I *want* to say to them is, "Hey, why not take a little, give a little. Let your guy have his quick 'efficient' sex sometimes, monotony's boring anyway, and sometimes you go for a more leisurely luxurious encounter. No one has the time or energy to spend an hour or more every single time." But everybody sees it from their own perspective instead of the other guy's. I always thought creativity was the solution to keeping both partners satisfied with their sexual arrangement. But what do I know? I'm a pseudo-sex addict. :-)

So now you know more of what's in my head than anyone besides my boyfriend. And unless you knew what I was thinking (yikes!), that post made no sense! (and maybe not even then -- my apologies.)

> > > I guess it isnt such a big deal with most women however.
> > >
> >
> > Sorry that your own experiences with women have (apparently) led you to believe that it isn't. Believe me, you couldn't be more wrong. =-} 'Nuff said.
>
> I am not sure I understand what you are saying here, but I did not mean to be offensive, nor was I speaking about all women.
>
> However there are two undeniable facts about women, mentally ill or not:
>
> 1. Any women can find and have sex much easier then any man. Thats just a fact of life.
>
> 2. Most women have a much harder time climaxing then most men.
>
>
> Also, a recent poll of "normal" women indicated that a full 30 percent really did not care much about having sex on a regular basis( this poll did not factor in the intimacy involved, just the sex act itself, however).
>
> Many married men seem to complain about a lack of sex in their relationships, indicating that the above poll has at least some validity to it.

 

Re: getting laid --- Sorry!

Posted by syringachalet on January 16, 2003, at 23:57:02

In reply to Re: getting laid --- Sorry! lonesomeloser, posted by bozeman on January 16, 2003, at 23:33:06

I good friend of mine just bought a set of video tapes from John Gray, the Mars & Venus guy.. and one was titled Mars & Venus in the bedroom and another was What Your Father didnt know and Your Mother didnt tell you..

She said on one it talked about all the different kinds of sex..quickie sex, gourment sex, and "all nighter"sex... that by having a combo of different kinds, you can still meet you or your partners needs and neither has to sacrifice very much. With everyones busy schedules..work, kids, church, etc., maybe these arent such far off concepts...

Just a share...

syringachalet

 

Re: getting laid --- Sorry!

Posted by lonesomeloser on January 17, 2003, at 0:50:50

In reply to Re: getting laid --- Sorry! lonesomeloser, posted by bozeman on January 16, 2003, at 23:33:06

Dear Bozeman,

You did not harm my feelings as I suspected that we mearly misunderstood each others perspectives on the subject.

Thank you for your reply and insight into your life. That takes a lot of courage, IMHO.

I am glad to hear that you have found a man that is understanding of your background and I wish you both wellness and happiness in your lives.

Regards,

Lonesomeloser


> You're right . . . reading it now, without taking into account what I was thinking at the time, it makes no sense whatsoever. Plus, I didn't mean for it to sound nearly as snippy or cryptic as it must have seemed. Sorry. You didn't upset me, and I hope I didn't upset you. You just got the muddy result of my frustration.

 

Re: Oracle - good post. DBob let thru eh?

Posted by chad_3 on January 17, 2003, at 12:26:11

In reply to Re: Tarditive dyskinsia won't help you get laid =), posted by oracle on January 13, 2003, at 11:25:10

Like your post Oracle.

What I have seen makes me think that Dr often use A/P's to "cover up" damange done by previous antipsychotic use (mask it) - which they can get away with under todays current standards.

Later dude,
Chad
http://www.socialfear.com/

> > oh has abilify been linked to tardive dyskinesias already?
> > or are you just quoting the rate for the average atypical?
>
> No it is common sence. All AP's carry this warning. No reason to expect a new one that works through the same pathways to be any different.
> Movement disorders and NMS are mentioned in the monograph:
> http://www.bms.com/cgi-bin/anybin.pl?sql=select%20PPI%20from%20TB_PRODUCT_PPI%20where%20PPI_SEQ=101&key=PPI
>
>

 

Tardive dyskinesia

Posted by Jaynee on January 18, 2003, at 22:56:49

In reply to Re: getting laid isn't all there is, posted by utopizen on January 13, 2003, at 11:00:17

I am not on a AP, but I am concerned for those who take them, especially if they work for people. So here is an article on it, it almost sounds promising.

Oxidative mechanisms and tardive dyskinesia.

Lohr JB, Kuczenski R, Niculescu AB.

Department of Psychiatry, University of California San Diego, San Diego, California, USA.

Tardive dyskinesia has been and continues to be a significant problem associated with long-term antipsychotic use, but its pathophysiology remains unclear. In the last 10 years, preclinical studies of the administration of antipsychotics to animals, as well as clinical studies of oxidative processes in patients given antipsychotic medications, with and without tardive dyskinesia, have continued to support the possibility that neurotoxic free radical production may be an important consequence of antipsychotic treatment, and that such production may relate to the development of dyskinetic phenomena. In line with this hypothesis, evidence has accumulated for the efficacy of antioxidants, primarily vitamin E (alpha-tocopherol), in the treatment and prevention of tardive dyskinesia. Early studies suggested a modest effect of vitamin E treatment on existing tardive dyskinesia, but later studies did not demonstrate a significant effect. Because evidence has continued to accumulate for increased oxidative damage from antipsychotic medications, but less so for the effectiveness of vitamin E, especially in cases of long-standing tardive dyskinesia, alternative antioxidant approaches to the condition may be warranted. These approaches may include the use of antioxidants as a preventive measure for tardive dyskinesia or the use of other antioxidants or neuroprotective drugs, such as melatonin, for established tardive dyskinesia.

PMID: 12467492 [PubMed - in process]


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