![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Gracie2 on October 18, 2001, at 4:59:09
I know ya'll have just been waiting on the edges of your seats for my opinion on self-medication.First, I don't consider myself a nit-picker but as some people on this board are fond of covering every base, I have to say that no intelligent person can be 100% against self-medication (diagnosing, prescribing and treating oneself with drugs, and monitering their own symptoms and adjusting medication without legal medical advice). Under this premise, the emergency rooms would be filled with people complaining of minor aches and pains that could easily be treated by Tylenol or some other OTC medication. In extreme cases, patients would continue to take prescription medication as directed despite alarming allergic reactions because they were instructed to finish the medication by their doctor. Stopping the medication on their own would be an act of self-diagnosis.
With that silliness out of the way, I was not at first opposed to patients who order non-narcotic drugs from overseas. This was because I can understand the hopelessness and frustration of someone who has experimented with drug after prescribed drug, first adjusting doses and trying different cocktails, waiting the 6 or 8 weeks for the drugs to take full effect, and ending up with unsatisfactory results time after time. For a seriously anxious or depressed patient, 6 or 8 weeks can be prolonged
torture. The Pulitzer Prize-winning author of Sophie's Choice, William Styron, admitted that he had no words to describe the horrors of serious depression in his autobiographical work, Darkness Visible. To a person that has sunk to such depths, the morality and ethics and legality of ordering overseas drugs becomes irrelevant, because the only alternative is suicide. Ordering these drugs is a sheer act of desperation, a last straw to grasp.We must remember that people who self-medicate who suffering, and they deserve our compassion. Alcohol abuse is also a form of self-medication, yet one poster on this board proclaimed all alcoholics to be "disgusting". This poster is a sociopath (hopefully she will look up the word) if she is actually aware of how dangerous such remarks can be. It would be interesting to know if this Valley Girl has ever heard
of John Berryman, Dylan Thomas, Lord Byron, Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Edgar Allen Poe, Ernest Hemingway, Jackson Pollock, and the countless other disgusting drunks that have added immeasurably to the richness and beauty of our world.A well-adjusted person will pay little or no heed to such an ignorant remark, but it may be enough to cause an unbalanced person to self-destruct. Such a remark only affirms their sense of worthlessness. Many people on the edge of suicide hang from this earth from a filament, a mere spiderweb, and the most inconsequential action can make them decide whether to go or to stay - a hurtful remark, or a child's cough from the bedroom down the hallway. Horton hears a Who.
After all that, I have to admit that I have changed my mind about self-medication for one reason, and that is because of my own profession as a radiologic technologist. It may surprise most people to know that it is not illegal for a nurse, a medical aide or a janitor to order x-rays and perform x-ray examinations.
This is a shameful practice by doctors who put money and time ahead of their patient's well-being. If the nurse is allowed to order x-rays before the patient has been seen by the doctor, it saves him time on performing a preliminary examination. If he "teaches" his nurse to operate x-ray equipment, it saves him the expense of hiring an RT. Doctors themselves, aside from radiologists, are not trained to operate x-ray equipment and are therefore unable to train nurses. The result is a poor-quality x-ray that is usually so bad, the doctor cannot make an accurate diagnosis and may miss anything from a fracture to malignant bone damage. Nurses know nothing about correct positioning, proper shielding or adjusting the machine's controls to improve x-ray quality, as they are unaware of what a good x-ray is supposed to look like. They also do not know enough about x-rays to order them, which means that a reputable doctor with an RT on staff must repeat the x-ray, resulting in unnecessary expense and radiation exposure to the patient. While most, if not all, hospitals hire only registered and licensed technologists, many private offices do not wish to spare the expense. Podiatrists and chiropractors are particularly notorious for this practice.
1.) If a nurse orders an x-ray before you have seen the doctor, politely decline. Tell them you wish to see the doctor before your x-ray.
2.) Feel free to ask the person performing your x-ray if she is licensed with the ARRT. If not, have your x-ray performed elsewhere, unless there is an RT on staff.A poor-quality x-ray infuriates me. In this light, I can understand the impatience of Cam and others with people who wish to order drugs from overseas. You deserve the best medical care by trained personnel.
Climbing off the soapbox-
Gracie
P.S. Every patient deserves at RT.
Climbing back off the soapbox-G.
Posted by Jane Doh on October 18, 2001, at 16:56:07
In reply to Self-medicatiom, posted by Gracie2 on October 18, 2001, at 4:59:09
First, I would like to commend you on your eloquent writing. (applause ensues) I am a writer in my free time - which is now since I am on medical leave from my job for an undetermined amount of time. I am a very rapid cycler - every 3 months or so, I attempt suicide,(9 times in the last 18mos) then ramp up to manic then level off is the pattern. I am a mechanical engineer in aerospace - in need absolute mental clarity to work and function as well as physical presence - I've missed practically 1/3 of the yr being in the hospital. (I'm in the process of finding a publisher for a novel I'm writing on bp see my home pg www.geocities.com/jane_doh/jane_doh to get to know me better)
I cannot fathom self-medication. It scares the hell out of me. With the cocktail that I am on presently: Effexor, Topomax, Seroquel and Klonopin, I am afraid to fool with dosages without any guidance for fear of my schizo-affective side affects getting worse. And they have.
Today I met with a new psychiatrist and expressed how I still hear voices and did have hallucinations- it is the scariest thing I have ever, ever experienced - next to the physical and mental abuse from my untreated bipolar mom when I was growing up - and from this board I learned alot of information about Geodon and suggested to him that I would like to try it. He is now tapering off my seroquel of 500mg and is implementing slowly the Geodon into my med-mix. I got my way with logical facts and suggestion.
With the psychiatrist's help, I learned that rapid cycler's, like myself, shouldn't be on anti-depressants for too long, as the AD's cause rapid cycling. And, there is a strong possiblity that he may want to cut down on my Effexor XR at 300mg to something lower in the very near future. This was very helpful. I would not have know this on my own - even though I try to find as much information as I can on meds and bp all the time - the professionals still do know more than us patients. Clearly.
However, we know our bodies. True. There must be a cohesive relationship between ourselves and the professional we have the relationship with. If you don't have a good enough relationship with your psychiatrist to tell them that you need to switch because of bad side effects or that something isn't working, or you want to try something else - get a new one. I say this to whoever is listening as I say it to myself.
I just got a new psychiatrist because my insurance ran out and my moron money grubber pdoc dropped me immediately which was a relief. But, I should have booted him long ago since I felt he was over-medicating me anyway with 500mg of seroquel that wasn't working and that was too sedating for me.
Ok, the soapbox podium is clear now for the next speaker :)
Jane
Posted by judy1 on October 18, 2001, at 20:25:43
In reply to Re: Self-medicatiom, posted by Jane Doh on October 18, 2001, at 16:56:07
I seem to remember this type of thread popping up periodically and being burned for my opinions. As someone who experiences similar symptoms as Jane (BTW have you ever tried wearing earphones with continuous music to help with voices?) and going through every FDA approved med (and some unapproved) and still experiencing symtoms, 15 psychiatrists, etc., etc., I am very much in favor of people educating themselves and self-medicating. I consider this a type of last resort for those whose symptoms and circumstances warrent it- Judy
Posted by Dr. Bob on October 18, 2001, at 22:55:59
In reply to Re: Self-medication, posted by judy1 on October 18, 2001, at 20:25:43
> This poster is a sociopath (hopefully she will look up the word) if she is actually aware of how dangerous such remarks can be. It would be interesting to know if this Valley Girl has ever heard
> of ... and the countless other disgusting drunks that have added immeasurably to the richness and beauty of our world.
>
> A well-adjusted person will pay little or no heed to such an ignorant remark...I appreciate the gist of what you said -- but please don't post anything that others could take as accusatory or put them down, thanks.
> I seem to remember this type of thread popping up periodically and being burned for my opinions.Yes, there's the potential here for discussion to polarize. But self-medication is neither always good nor always bad. I've included a number of different perspectives posted here in the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#decide
Bob
PS: Follow-ups regarding civility should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration, thanks.
Posted by Jane D on October 19, 2001, at 1:33:28
In reply to Self-medicatiom, posted by Gracie2 on October 18, 2001, at 4:59:09
Hi Gracie. So nice to talk to you again, too. I don't have either the energy or the inclination to get involved in another thread on self medication at the moment but I did find this statement interesting enough to want to continue it for a while.
Here follows a QUOTE FROM GRACIE2:
> A well-adjusted person will pay little or no heed to such an ignorant remark, but it may be enough to cause an unbalanced person to self-destruct. Such a remark only affirms their sense of worthlessness. Many people on the edge of suicide hang from this earth from a filament, a mere spiderweb, and the most inconsequential action can make them decide whether to go or to stay - a hurtful remark, or a child's cough from the bedroom down the hallway. Horton hears a Who.
END QUOTE
I started another thread on this over on social to avoid hijacking this one and to avoid the infamous "redirect". If you or anyone else is interested it's at:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20011015/msgs/12684.html
Jane
(Valley Girl? ROTF....!)
Posted by JohnL on October 19, 2001, at 4:12:33
In reply to Self-medicatiom, posted by Gracie2 on October 18, 2001, at 4:59:09
I agree with everything said here about technical expertise required for good X-rays. I do not however believe comparing that situation to self medication is at all a good comparison. Apples and oranges. X-rays are a known finite science based on facts. How drugs work in the brain, and how they vary from one person to the next depending on unique chemistry, is a totally different story. There are no concrete facts to work with, and bucketfulls of unknowns variables. With X-rays, the best that can be done is based on science. In psychiatry, the best that can be done is more based on intuition, instinct, educated guesses, art, but not so much science or procedure. In short, getting good X-rays is a skill. Getting good psychiatric treatment is more a lucky guess, even for the most qualified psychiatrists.
John
>
> I know ya'll have just been waiting on the edges of your seats for my opinion on self-medication.
>
> First, I don't consider myself a nit-picker but as some people on this board are fond of covering every base, I have to say that no intelligent person can be 100% against self-medication (diagnosing, prescribing and treating oneself with drugs, and monitering their own symptoms and adjusting medication without legal medical advice). Under this premise, the emergency rooms would be filled with people complaining of minor aches and pains that could easily be treated by Tylenol or some other OTC medication. In extreme cases, patients would continue to take prescription medication as directed despite alarming allergic reactions because they were instructed to finish the medication by their doctor. Stopping the medication on their own would be an act of self-diagnosis.
>
> With that silliness out of the way, I was not at first opposed to patients who order non-narcotic drugs from overseas. This was because I can understand the hopelessness and frustration of someone who has experimented with drug after prescribed drug, first adjusting doses and trying different cocktails, waiting the 6 or 8 weeks for the drugs to take full effect, and ending up with unsatisfactory results time after time. For a seriously anxious or depressed patient, 6 or 8 weeks can be prolonged
> torture. The Pulitzer Prize-winning author of "Sophie's Chance", William Styron, admitted that he had no words to describe the horrors of serious depression in his autobiographical work, "Darkness Visible". To a person that has sunk to such depths, the morality and ethics and legality of ordering overseas drugs becomes irrelevant, because the only alternative is suicide. Ordering these drugs is a sheer act of desperation, a last straw to grasp.
>
> We must remember that people who self-medicate who suffering, and they deserve our compassion. Alcohol abuse is also a form of self-medication, yet one poster on this board proclaimed all alcoholics to be "disgusting". This poster is a sociopath (hopefully she will look up the word) if she is actually aware of how dangerous such remarks can be. It would be interesting to know if this Valley Girl has ever heard
> of John Berryman, Dylan Thomas, Lord Byron, Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Edgar Allen Poe, Ernest Hemingway, Jackson Pollock, and the countless other disgusting drunks that have added immeasurably to the richness and beauty of our world.
>
> A well-adjusted person will pay little or no heed to such an ignorant remark, but it may be enough to cause an unbalanced person to self-destruct. Such a remark only affirms their sense of worthlessness. Many people on the edge of suicide hang from this earth from a filament, a mere spiderweb, and the most inconsequential action can make them decide whether to go or to stay - a hurtful remark, or a child's cough from the bedroom down the hallway. Horton hears a Who.
>
> After all that, I have to admit that I have changed my mind about self-medication for one reason, and that is because of my own profession as a radiologic technologist. It may surprise most people to know that it is not illegal for a nurse, a medical aide or a janitor to order x-rays and perform x-ray examinations.
> This is a shameful practice by doctors who put money and time ahead of their patient's well-being. If the nurse is allowed to order x-rays before the patient has been seen by the doctor, it saves him time on performing a preliminary examination. If he "teaches" his nurse to operate x-ray equipment, it saves him the expense of hiring an RT. Doctors themselves, aside from radiologists, are not trained to operate x-ray equipment and are therefore unable to train nurses. The result is a poor-quality x-ray that is usually so bad, the doctor cannot make an accurate diagnosis and may miss anything from a fracture to malignant bone damage. Nurses know nothing about correct positioning, proper shielding or adjusting the machine's controls to improve x-ray quality, as they are unaware of what a good x-ray is supposed to look like. They also do not know enough about x-rays to order them, which means that a reputable doctor with an RT on staff must repeat the x-ray, resulting in unnecessary expense and radiation exposure to the patient. While most, if not all, hospitals hire only registered and licensed technologists, many private offices do not wish to spare the expense. Podiatrists and chiropractors are particularly notorious for this practice.
> 1.) If a nurse orders an x-ray before you have seen the doctor, politely decline. Tell them you wish to see the doctor before your x-ray.
> 2.) Feel free to ask the person performing your x-ray if she is licensed with the ARRT. If not, have your x-ray performed elsewhere, unless there is an RT on staff.
>
> A poor-quality x-ray infuriates me. In this light, I can understand the impatience of Cam and others with people who wish to order drugs from overseas. You deserve the best medical care by trained personnel.
>
> Climbing off the soapbox-
> Gracie
> P.S. Every patient deserves at RT.
> Climbing back off the soapbox-G.
Posted by Elizabeth on October 19, 2001, at 13:25:10
In reply to Re: please be civil, posted by Dr. Bob on October 18, 2001, at 22:55:59
[Dr. Bob:]
> ...self-medication is neither always good nor always bad.Well said.
-e
Posted by Gracie2 on October 19, 2001, at 17:27:27
In reply to Re: please be civil, posted by Dr. Bob on October 18, 2001, at 22:55:59
Sorry about the valley girl/sociopath remark. I must be in manic phase.
;-)
G
Posted by Gracie2 on October 19, 2001, at 19:13:46
In reply to Re: Self-medicatiom, posted by JohnL on October 19, 2001, at 4:12:33
John-
After some thought, I must agree with you. You do seem to understand more about radiology than the average person, who thinks that producing a good
(diagnostic) x-ray consists of sticking a "plate" under the appropriate body part and pushing a button. There's quite a bit more involved. An RT
is required to learn anatomy, physics, radiologic science, chemistry (the effect of developing chemicals on radiographs), proper positioning, radiation protection and shielding, how to operate many different brands and types of equipment (standard, portable, fluoroscopic), how to adjust machine settings (kilovolts, milliamperes and time) which vary from patient to patient, sterile techniques, treatment of badly injured patients (i.e. with possible cervical fractures), not to mention putting up with irate doctors and uncooperative drunks. All this requires extensive training at a 2-year school with preliminary EMT training, rotation at a hospital, an extremely difficult test to qualify as a registered technologist, and continuing education to keep our license current. That's why it infuriates me when untrained personnel operate x-ray equipment as if it takes no more education than, say, learning how to pot a plant. It's dangerous, and should be illegal.My comparison to radiology and pharmaceutical science was simply a nod and show of respect to the education and training required to become a qualified pharmacist, and why I understand their disapproval of self-medication.
While you - meaning you, John, personally - have taken the time to educate yourself about medication, particularly with certain drugs from overseas pharmacies- this is not the case with everyone. In fact, because you had success with amisulpride and/or adrinifil, we had some conversations about it and I tried both drugs myself. (Incidentally, you mentioned that you were not condoning my actions, could not guarantee results,that I was entirely responsible for my own actions and the outcome of trying these drugs, and I agreed. Very smart.) These two drugs did not help me (or hurt), but my expectations were not high anyway as I had already experienced disappointing results with Paxil, Prozac and Wellbutrin. I realize that it can be a crapshoot.
Anyway, I digress. I understand your point, or I think I do: in radiology, with proper training and good equipment, you can reasonably expect consistant results. Psychiatric medication is normally a case of trial-and-error, with some patients having an excellent response to a medication that produces poor results in the next patient. I agree with that. (Is that what you meant?)
Respectfully yours-
GracieP.S. I apologize to the folks who are getting tired with my dialogue. I quit taking my BP meds AMA and it's obvious to me that I'm starting to cycle again - I don't sleep enough and I talk too much. Also, I am not against a glass or two of a good Merlot, which makes it hard for me to shut up. -G
Posted by Gracie2 on October 19, 2001, at 20:43:49
In reply to Re: Self-medicatiom, posted by Jane Doh on October 18, 2001, at 16:56:07
Jane-
Again, I am not a doctor or a pharmacist but I do take seroquel, and 500 mg daily seems like a VERY
large dose, and I normally have a high tolerance for medication. I can't imagine how you could stay awake and function at that dose. Just my amateur opinion.
-Gracie
P.S. I smiled when you said that you are an aerospace engineer. I was very depressed as a child and a teenager - self-mutilation, rampant drug use, just name it - and practically begged my mother for psychiatric help (Dad was not in the picture). She wouldn't even consider it because, she said, the only people who need psychiatrists are lunatics and idiots. Of course, this is the same woman who would not allow me to attend a Catholic church because, she said, Catholics worship Mary and do not believe in Jesus. (?????) No wonder I have my wires crossed.
-G
Posted by Gracie2 on October 19, 2001, at 21:19:22
In reply to Re: Self-medicatiom, posted by Jane Doh on October 18, 2001, at 16:56:07
Jane,
Your website is impressive and you obviously have a great deal of creative skill. I have only one small piece of advice - as you are an attractive woman, your picture might attract the horndogs and detract from your writing. If it doesn't bother you it sure doesn't bother me - but as an artist myself, I have the usual horror of "not being taken seriously".
Have you read Touched With Fire? Particularly if you're bi-polar, as I am, I cannot recommend this book strongly enough to the artist. It addresses the problem of creativity vs. medication, as psychiatric drugs will often dampen a creative spirit. I wish I could remember the poem about "my candle burns at both ends..." because I believe it describes exactly the artistic manic-depressive.
We are brilliant lights.
-Gracie
Posted by Jane Doh on October 20, 2001, at 2:26:26
In reply to Re: Self-medication - Jane, posted by Gracie2 on October 19, 2001, at 20:43:49
Gracie - I am bipolar and have wondered about my creativity being affected by the medicinal cocktail - curtailing the edge that I once? had or still have, I don't know. But, therein lies the quandary, the everlasting question of artists who thrive on life's vast experiences to create masterpieces and minor pieces of work as expressions of themselves.
I'm disapppointed that noone has addressed the issue that I put on the table earlier about the self-medication issue vs. honest psychiatric relationships. Do the people that self-medicate have a psychiatrist? And, if yes, is it an honest communication between you and the doctor? Or, if no, is that why you self-medicate? Do you think you know more than the doctor?
Also, the post earlier that somone suggested to me to put on headphones to drown out the voices did not sit well with me. In addition to being creatively inclined, I am also a pragmatist - this is why I am mechanical engineer in the aerospace field. That suggestion is akin to putting earplugs in at night, is it not? This is not intended as a slam. What I did instead, is I asked my new psychiatrist to switch me to Geodon from the 500mg of Seroquel I've been taking and that's exactly what I'm starting tonight - a slow transfer process. We'll see how it goes.
And, as far as the X-Ray analogy goes, I completely agree with you, Gracie. If there's one thing that burns me, it is when people call themselves "engineers" when they are not - and did not go to college for the theory, the classes, the mathematics, nor the safety backround. You wouldn't want someone analyzing, and predicting calculations for the Boeing 747 you're on, not having a Bachelor's degree, would you? This is why I am opposed to self-medication and feel that a good relationship with your psychiatrist, and or a second opinion with another psychiatrist (if you are not happy with the first) is the way to go.
Everyone has their opinion, just like everyone has their own different...signature. :)
Jane
Posted by Kaysey on October 20, 2001, at 12:55:42
In reply to Re: Self-medication , posted by Jane Doh on October 20, 2001, at 2:26:26
> Gracie - I am bipolar and have wondered about my creativity being affected by the medicinal cocktail - curtailing the edge that I once? had or still have, I don't know. But, therein lies the quandary, the everlasting question of artists who thrive on life's vast experiences to create masterpieces and minor pieces of work as expressions of themselves.
>
> I'm disapppointed that noone has addressed the issue that I put on the table earlier about the self-medication issue vs. honest psychiatric relationships. Do the people that self-medicate have a psychiatrist? And, if yes, is it an honest communication between you and the doctor? Or, if no, is that why you self-medicate? Do you think you know more than the doctor?
>
> Also, the post earlier that somone suggested to me to put on headphones to drown out the voices did not sit well with me. In addition to being creatively inclined, I am also a pragmatist - this is why I am mechanical engineer in the aerospace field. That suggestion is akin to putting earplugs in at night, is it not? This is not intended as a slam. What I did instead, is I asked my new psychiatrist to switch me to Geodon from the 500mg of Seroquel I've been taking and that's exactly what I'm starting tonight - a slow transfer process. We'll see how it goes.
>
> And, as far as the X-Ray analogy goes, I completely agree with you, Gracie. If there's one thing that burns me, it is when people call themselves "engineers" when they are not - and did not go to college for the theory, the classes, the mathematics, nor the safety backround. You wouldn't want someone analyzing, and predicting calculations for the Boeing 747 you're on, not having a Bachelor's degree, would you? This is why I am opposed to self-medication and feel that a good relationship with your psychiatrist, and or a second opinion with another psychiatrist (if you are not happy with the first) is the way to go.
>
> Everyone has their opinion, just like everyone has their own different...signature. :)
>
> JaneThis is a good issue to discuss, and I respect the comments of everyone who posted. I agree that there are definite dangers involved in self-medication. I would not ordinarily recommend it; but (I guess you knew the but was coming) this is far from a perfect world. There are not psychiatrists everywhere who are familiar with 'cutting edge' research and the newest meds. In fact there are lots of medically underserved areas where there are NO pdcos.
Eleven years ago when I knew I was experiencing panic attacks and depression (had researched it throughly), I realized that I would have to bite the bullet and find a pdoc-- and I was frantic. I was a college professor and knew that I could tell no one about this, plus I knew of no one that treated anxiety disorders. GPs were recommending stress management, only. As a person who had taught stress management for years, I knew that wasn't the case. I ended up taking 'sick leave'--said I was seeing an allergist--and driving out of state two days a week in order to get diagnosed and get meds (found the name in the yellow pages--said he treated anxiety disorders)! After a period of trial and error, we found that minimum doses of Prozac, Ativan, and Lopressor worked (has long sense pooped out). However, my pdoc moved, and recommended that I see a GP colleague of his for continued prescriptions. This man wrote my scripts but was clueless as to why I took any of these meds! I had to practically give him a lesson in pharmacology!!!
Since then, GPs have written my scripts, generally based on my suggestions. Now are these appropriate methods for diagnosis and treatment? No. I certainly would never recommend looking up numbers in the yellow pages, or suggesting meds to doctors, etc. Neither is it fair that I had to sneak out to another state to get meds and not be able to tell my colleagues, and not be able to use my university insurance to pay for my visits and meds, lest someone should find out. However, sometimes we have to do unorthodox things to survive. Especially when it comes to the treatment of mental health problems--which as far as I am concerned is still in the dark ages.
I hated walking into my pharmacy and getting those meds filled for fear of being labelled as 'mentally ill.'
I am sure that I am not the 'lone ranger' with regard to this. The sad thing about it is most of us know more about ourselves and which meds would/could work than a number of physicians that we have access to (notice I didn't say physicians per se--I said physicians we had access to).
With regard to the issue of credentialling and areas of expertise: yes, I understand the frustration of having been educated, trained, and skilled in certain professions, when there are those who work or claim similar expertise in said fields without the training. However, I don't know that that really is the issue here.
I would never 'play' physician or pharmacist. However, to protect my health, I will research to the best of my ability and not fear making suggestions or 'doing what I have to do' to get some kind of quality of life (if that would possibly mean self-medication).
I have two undergraduate degrees and am completing my second graduate degree. One of those degrees also requires state and national board examination and licensure. Are there people out there who get jobs without these credentials? Yes,many and all the time. It isn't fair, but I realize that sometimes they may know more about certain 'practical' aspects of the field than I do.
OK, so much for the soapbox. Point being, if we had equitable access to high quality mental health care, we wouldn't even be debating this issue; but we do not. In the meantime we will have to do what we can to survive.
My very best to everyone.
Thanks.
Kaysey
Posted by judy1 on October 20, 2001, at 17:57:00
In reply to Re: Self-medication , posted by Jane Doh on October 20, 2001, at 2:26:26
Hi Jane,
It was me who suggested the music; basically because I have been on every antipsychotic made- both atypical and typical, oral and depot injections. The side effects including EPS were what led me to try other methods and I found this helpful which is why I suggested it (and no it is not like earplugs, in a sense it causes me to pay more attention to the music then the very negative comments I sometimes hear). While I do self-medicate I also see a psychiatrist and psychologist. I am also pregnant which complicates matters a great deal. I have a doctorate in Immunology but am on disability and have been so for almost 4 years. I find much of my time (aside from caring for my family) researching medications in various trial phases- thanks to former co-workers- and educating myself on different therapies. My shrink and therapist have been very supportive but I did go through 15 psychiatrists before I found one willing to work with me. I hope some of this helps- Judy
Posted by judy1 on October 20, 2001, at 18:11:40
In reply to Re: Self-medication » Jane Doh, posted by judy1 on October 20, 2001, at 17:57:00
My psychiatrist claims I am one of the most sensitive patients he has ever worked with; your comment hurt me (re: earphones) and I wonder if you are aware of the effects of your comments to others who are simply trying to help (I also have bipolar disorder, PTSD, panic, etc). This is the main reason Dr. Bob why I don't get into these discussions and tend to disappear for lengths of time- this is in reference to my post about being burned here. I hope you find what you are looking for Jane.
Posted by Jane Doh on October 20, 2001, at 19:25:29
In reply to P.S. to Jane, posted by judy1 on October 20, 2001, at 18:11:40
I am sorry, Judy that I hurt you with my post. At first, your comment about the earphones to me was confusing. I didn't know how to take it. I didn't mean any harm and I apologize sincerely. Please accept my apology.
The voices I hear and the hallucinations I have been experiencing over the past 8 weeks have been paralyzing me with fear like I've never had before. I'm scared to go to sleep and to sleep in the dark. I live alone in a studio and feel like a freak at 29years old. I am very, very scared of everything right now. I just want some help and I'm just looking for safety, that's all.
Really, I can see how one like yourself can go through a whole barrage of psychiatrists and be frought with a dilemma of finding a cure for one's own symptoms by self-medication. I do take things also with an open mind with reasonable facts. It scares me that you tell me that your symptoms pervade and you've been on disability for 4 years.
For myself, I'm looking for a little bit of hope and safety. That's all. And, I'm looking to make some friends, not enemies. I thank you for passing on your suggestion as to what works for you. I just have a bit of frustration right now because I am on disability myself and would like to return to work without any symptoms - especially no voices- that is my biggest fear.
I'm very scared, I had to relive my abuse this past week with my new doctors which brought about open wounds, and I deeply regret what I wrote.
Best of luck to you,
JaneP.S. See my website and you can see for yourself that I'm harmless. www.geocities.com/jane_doh/jane_doh
Posted by judy1 on October 20, 2001, at 22:28:34
In reply to Re: P.S. to Jane » judy1, posted by Jane Doh on October 20, 2001, at 19:25:29
Thank you for your apology. You have a beautiful web site and I wish you great successs with that. I read over your meds and as you said the AD is extremely destabilizing in a rapid-cycler. I hope once you are off of it (and effexor can be difficult in a lot of people to taper off), many of your symptoms may disappear. I agree that auditory hallucinations are terrifying; in my case I had a bipolar father who was abusive and exhibit a lot of symptoms of a dissociative disorder- my therapist is questioning if the voices may stem from that rather than psychosis. I assume you are in a depressed state, your writing is too understandable for someone in a manic state. Seroquel was the least effective for auditory hallucinations, risperdal the best at 4mg/day but the most energizing (some pdocs feel it causes mania in some people). So zyprexa seems to be in favor with the atypicals. You made no mention of a psychologist, I also have been bulemic and I self-injure which is seperate from my suicide attempts. I have found my therapist to be extremely helpful with these symptoms (perhaps because she has overcome many of them herself). My psychiatrist also does therapy and doesn't 'just' prescribe which is a rarity but again has helped me. Please don't get discouraged by the length of time of my symptoms, I worked in my field for 8 years before I got ill for a second time- the first was a 3 year period when I was 18. The key is day to day and try to put more energy into therapy than meds; I've been on as many as 6 and found myself treating side-effects of other meds- another reason why I self-medicate. My regimen is klonopin, an opiate, (and depakote and zyprexa only when manic). Depakote is a very depressing medication for me and I refuse to take it on a routine basis and since I cannot take an AD, I hope you understand the logic. Take care, Judy
Posted by Gracie2 on October 23, 2001, at 23:33:36
In reply to To Jane, posted by judy1 on October 20, 2001, at 22:28:34
This is the end of the thread.
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