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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Maniz on March 27, 2001, at 22:39:20
Hello,
I think this is a good study from Univ. Toronto.
http://www.nevapress.com/cnsdr/full/5/3/193.pdfPlease post comments!
Thanks
BTW: where is the post only form page? this one is too slow to load just to post.
Posted by jb on March 28, 2001, at 22:30:54
In reply to good scientific article on adrafinil/modafinil, posted by Maniz on March 27, 2001, at 22:39:20
Thanks for taking the time to post the very interesting and informative article on Adrafinil and Modafinil. I've been trying to obtain more info regarding Adrafinil after someone posted that it was 100% effective for his social phobia.
This article seems to discuss some limited data for Adrafinil's use for depression and, potentially, social phobia.
Are you aware of any other study or clinical experience regarding its efficacy for "social phobia?"
Thanks.
JB
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 29, 2001, at 8:15:09
In reply to good scientific article on adrafinil/modafinil, posted by Maniz on March 27, 2001, at 22:39:20
> BTW: where is the post only form page? this one is too slow to load just to post.
I think you mean this:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/iex.html
Bob
Posted by Maniz on March 29, 2001, at 12:41:18
In reply to Excellent! Social phobia or Depression?, posted by jb on March 28, 2001, at 22:30:54
Hello,
I am glad you liked it.
Regarding studies, no I have not found any. However our dear contributor to this forum JohnL posted many times (as some other people) that adrafinil is of great help.
Due to gastrointestinal distress (and fear from liver toxicity which many times I read mentioned but not demonstrated) I get from 300mg I am taking half a dose/day.
Two times I took 150mg adrafinil with 750 mg aniracetam and I noticed a better effect. Hope to try pramiracetam, but it is expensive. I am thinking in combining with vinpocetine for its neuroprotective effect (glutamate toxicity). I am not sure if the combination is good. From the article it seems adrafinil elevates glutamate. Sorry this is speculative and just my attempt to understand how this work.
Please post your comments/experiences.
> Thanks for taking the time to post the very interesting and informative article on Adrafinil and Modafinil. I've been trying to obtain more info regarding Adrafinil after someone posted that it was 100% effective for his social phobia.
>
> This article seems to discuss some limited data for Adrafinil's use for depression and, potentially, social phobia.
>
> Are you aware of any other study or clinical experience regarding its efficacy for "social phobia?"
>
> Thanks.
>
> JB
Posted by AndrewB on March 31, 2001, at 11:39:56
In reply to good scientific article on adrafinil/modafinil, posted by Maniz on March 27, 2001, at 22:39:20
Maniz,
Thank you for posting this excellent article on adrafinil. Finally some solid information on it! I don't think I was the only one who was leary of this med. due to the lack information on it. I particularly noted the article's substantiation of the long-term safety and effectiveness it appears to have. The article also confirms that it is an arousal and motivational agent that does not disturb sleep or cause anxiety. It seems to improve mood in many. It was my hunch that this med was a centrally acting alpha 1 agonist via glutaminergic actions. While the article makes the same speculation, clearly its exact mechanisim of action is unclear. Some people feel tension or overstimulation on this med, I wonder if these people already have normal or hyperglutaminergic activity. Also adranifil seems to have some differences in action between it and modafinil. First hand accounts indicate this also. Interesting that adrafinil has another metabolite besides modafinil though this does not necessarily explain their differences. I didn't understand the article's discussion on how sleep structure is changed. Was the implication that adrafinil can restore healthy sleep structure in those who have disturbed sleep structure?
BTW, it is interesting that the combo of aniracetam and adrafinil was beneficial to you. Aniracetam I believe increases glutaminergic activity in the hippocampus, a structure involved with memory. What specific improvement did you see with this med combo. Maniz?
AndrewB
Posted by Maniz on March 31, 2001, at 16:34:18
In reply to Re: good scientific article on adrafinil/modafinil, posted by AndrewB on March 31, 2001, at 11:39:56
Hi AndrewB, thanks for your comments
> Maniz,
>
> Thank you for posting this excellent article on adrafinil. Finally some solid information on it!Yes, maybe sometime Lafon puts some info on the site they are building.
>I don't think I was the only one who was leary of this med. due to the lack information on it.sure, and we still lack substantiated information on side effects
>I particularly noted the article's substantiation of the long-term safety and effectiveness it appears to have. The article also confirms that it is an arousal and motivational agent that does not disturb sleep or cause anxiety. It seems to improve mood in many. It was my hunch that this med was a centrally acting alpha 1 agonist via glutaminergic actions. While the article makes the same speculation, clearly its exact mechanisim of action is unclear.
What do you know about glutamate excitotoxicity?. I read about it in many websites but I am not sure how it works. It seems that calcium gets into the cells, bla bla...
Do you think adrafinil can be neurotoxic?. I do not want to risk my poor neurons for just a temporary lift.
I do not know if adrafinil can be combined with neuroprotective substances. I have read magnessium conteracts calcium influx into the cell and also the drug nimodipine. Vinpocetine is also said to be anti excitotoxic. I am not sure if the commbination will help or just block the action of adrafinil.
> Some people feel tension or overstimulation on this med, I wonder if these people already have normal or hyperglutaminergic activity.
Well, I used to be very nervous but now it seems all my enery dissapeard and I am more inhibited than I used to be, especially regarding social situations. I do not know if this is depression or what but I do not want to take ADs.
> Also adranifil seems to have some differences in action between it and modafinil. First hand accounts indicate this also. Interesting that adrafinil has another metabolite besides modafinil though this does not necessarily explain their differences. I didn't understand the article's discussion on how sleep structure is changed. Was the implication that adrafinil can restore healthy sleep structure in those who have disturbed sleep structure?I think so, but I would have to read the article again to tell the truth, it was long...
>
> BTW, it is interesting that the combo of aniracetam and adrafinil was beneficial to you. Aniracetam I believe increases glutaminergic activity in the hippocampus,I did not know that about aniracetam.
> a structure involved with memory. What specific improvement did you see with this med combo. Maniz?
well, a bit more alert, easy to do things and talk (action and communication I might say).
But I am not taking the combo on a regular basis so I am not sure. Besides, the adrafinil dose was very low and the aniracetam was passed the expiry date. Anyway, I think I got a better effect than from either alone. I will certainly try again.
I read about other noradrenaline agonists (or whatever they are):
amineptine
reboxetineand maybe also wellbutrin
Do you know anything about them?. Can they be taken on low doses?.
Maybe they are safer and better than adrafinil if what we need is a noradrenergic.
Thanks and sorry for any inconsistence I am just trying to learn.
Please comment on this if you can.
Posted by AndrewB on April 1, 2001, at 16:31:01
In reply to Re: good scientific article on adrafinil/modafinil » AndrewB, posted by Maniz on March 31, 2001, at 16:34:18
Maniz,
It appears that adrafinil and modafinil are unique in their ability to act as central alpha1 agonists. Others drugs like reboxetine with perphereal actions are quite problematic due to the inherent side effects of periphereal alpha1 agonism and, in my opinion, are to be used only as last resorts.
The aritcle seems to indicate the long-term safety of adrafinil but does not rule out excitotoxcity caused by its glutaminergic activity. I should say that glutaminergic excitotoxcity may occur to a greater degree in depressives in general, or at least certain subsets. Therefore, even if not taking adrafinil, there is justification to protect oneself against excitotoxcity. That being said, glutaminergic activity and calcium channel activity is essential for cellular function and overly limiting this process is toxic also.
The one drug that I am aware of that has been proven to prevent excitotoxcity with (harmful) side effects is memantine. Basically it modulates (versus blocking) calcium entering the cell via NMDA receptor action. (the NMDA receptor is one of the receptors located on the calcium channel on the cell membrane.
It can be ordered from Geramany with a prescription.
In time I will post further information on this medicine, which I take myself.
BTW: Your positive reaction to adrafinl and aniracetam may indicate that you would experience significant cognitive improvement with cycloserine. Cycloserine is a broad based antibiotic used to treat TB. However at lower doses, 50 mg.s a day, it is a partial agonist at the glycine site of NMDA glutamate receptor. It increases cognitive performance, like aniracetam, through enhanced glutaminergic activity of hippocampal neurons. Cycloserine is apparently safe too. It will increase glutaminergic activity only to the point of the NMDA receptor's 'physiological maximum', thus, not causing excitotoxcicity. Short term studies indicate it is effective for cognitive enhancement. Dr. Goldstein, a CFIDs specialist, indicates that it is effective in long-term use. Available by prescription. Note is has a narrow dosage window of effectiveness (approx. 50mg./day) for this purpose.
AndrewB
Posted by Maniz on April 3, 2001, at 22:22:33
In reply to Re: Maniz, posted by AndrewB on April 1, 2001, at 16:31:01
Hello,This is just a brief comment on how things are goin for me regarding adrafinil after 10 days.
*I started om 300mg/day but had to half the dose. I still get gastrointestinal side side effects (discomfort, altered color of discharges).
*No big stimulatory effect during the day, but I notice that I am awake at late time.
*I smell different. I feel a smell in my body I do not like and I am sure it is the drug.This week end I did not take it. I was feeling bad and tired due to a back ache an was not in the mood.
I am not sure if I will continue with adrafinil. Suggestions?
Posted by rick_number1001@yahoo.com on August 23, 2001, at 1:53:20
In reply to my experience Re: Maniz, posted by Maniz on April 3, 2001, at 22:22:33
Hi Maniz,
I have not taken adrafinil, but I have had
very good results with modafinil (Provigil).I am in the "very severe" category pre-treatment
days (Liebowitz test), and with a few good
treatment combos rate mild or moderate. I
am now trying to improve on that with CBT.I can't say for sure with adrafinil, but
with modafinil I get more wakefulness at night,
but I also get a definite stimulant vigilance
effect during day. Self confidence, assertiveness,
'eye contact', outwardness, and vigilance increase.
Also libido increase and assertion with women.
(I am a 34 year old male).However, I take 75-100mg Provigil
WITH Nardil 60mg and Klonopin 2.5-2.75.I welcome anyone to my new website
www.socialfear.comI've been on meds for 8 years and have tried
lots of combos and singles with meds from USA
and a few also from overseas (ie; moclobomide,
amineptine, tianeptine). Just about everything
reasonable in USA but didn't bother with
tricyclics.Good luck!
Craig (pseudoname Rick_number1001)
> Hello,
>
> This is just a brief comment on how things are goin for me regarding adrafinil after 10 days.
>
> *I started om 300mg/day but had to half the dose. I still get gastrointestinal side side effects (discomfort, altered color of discharges).
> *No big stimulatory effect during the day, but I notice that I am awake at late time.
> *I smell different. I feel a smell in my body I do not like and I am sure it is the drug.
>
> This week end I did not take it. I was feeling bad and tired due to a back ache an was not in the mood.
>
> I am not sure if I will continue with adrafinil. Suggestions?
This is the end of the thread.
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