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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Barbara on October 7, 1999, at 21:03:52
How safe is Melatonin for a 12 year old female, who is ADHD, on Adderall, 20 mg./day? She sleeps 12 hours per day, but is always tired...the psychiatrist is suggesting that she isn't falling into the "deep" sleep...
Thanks.
Posted by andrewb on October 7, 1999, at 22:58:02
In reply to Melatonin, posted by Barbara on October 7, 1999, at 21:03:52
> How safe is Melatonin for a 12 year old female, who is ADHD, on Adderall, 20 mg./day? She sleeps 12 hours per day, but is always tired...the psychiatrist is suggesting that she isn't falling into the "deep" sleep...
>
> Thanks.Barbara,
A few things pop to mind:
1) Melatonin can worsen depression. For more info. go the top of this page, connect to the tips page and do a search under the keyword 'melatonin'.
2) Melatonin helps with the onset of sleep but I don't know if it helps sleep quality.
3) Would the girl benefit by being evaluated while she sleeps at a sleep center to pinpoint the problem.
Posted by Noa on October 8, 1999, at 0:55:23
In reply to Re: Melatonin, posted by andrewb on October 7, 1999, at 22:58:02
don't do anything based upon a hunch about her sleep. Get a sleep study done and find out what the source of the problem is. I have a sleep disorder and getting it evaluated has led to the right treatment, which has made a HUGE diffreence in my life.
I agree--the melatonin thing is not reputed to be a safe route to go.
Posted by dove on October 8, 1999, at 9:11:47
In reply to Re: Melatonin, posted by Noa on October 8, 1999, at 0:55:23
Well, I hate to disagree with the wise (no sarcasm) who posted before me but I do hold a different view of Melatonin. My daughter and I both take, I take it every night just about. We are both on Adderall and we both had severe trouble sleeping before we ever were diagnosed or taking any stimulants. My Dr. had me try antihistimines first, they made us sleepy and we fell asleep quick but didn't remain asleep and the sleep was very unfit.
He had us try the Melatonin next. Now, we tried 5 different kinds and different doses. Here is the low-down on the best in results and with no side-effects. Sublingual Melatonin, the kind that you let melt under your tongue. I only need half of 1 mg. ( 0.5 mgs) My daughter needs only 1/4 of a 1 mg. sublingual pill. The response is incredible, fast (I mean rapid) it doesn't leave you feeling droggy in the a.m., although it doesn't change the way a person normally acts in the morning (like me being scatter-brained and crabby) and it does NOT cause depression in either one of us. I truly believe it does the opposite, getting enough sleep is a God-send.
I go into hyper-mania without sleep. As a child and a teen-ager I never slept right. I would go days without sleep and then sleep for 48 hours straight. My daughter has very similar behavior and the Melatonin has truly made the difference between life and death in my case and hopefully it will save many years of madness for her as well.
We are both ADHD if that is relevant to you. If you use the sublingual you don't have to use as much, it is absorbed rapidly and the Psyche Doc strongly supports it's use. There are many parents of Autistic children that have been using it for well over 25 years with positive results. Try a search on "Melatonin" and "Autism" or "Autism Spectrum" and you should find some very useful information on it's uses and safety.
If you have any questions just ask :-)
dove~
Posted by Dee on October 8, 1999, at 10:53:06
In reply to Re: Melatonin, posted by dove on October 8, 1999, at 9:11:47
There's a thread with experiences about melatonin that started 9/2/99 'Over the counter antidepressants'. You may want to check it out
Posted by Bob on October 8, 1999, at 12:20:19
In reply to Re: Melatonin, posted by Dee on October 8, 1999, at 10:53:06
> There's a thread with experiences about melatonin that started 9/2/99 'Over the counter antidepressants'. You may want to check it out
But did much of anything come out of that? I thought it was a doc looking for what sorts of OTCs folks might be trying as the basis of a research project. Whatevah ... no harm in looking.
It's good to hear about that sublingual method, Dove. Before I started with the prescription meds, I tried both Valerian and Melatonin. Both started fabulously for me in terms of relaxing me and helping get some deep sleep. But after a few weeks, they'd give me headaches. Maybe it's that dosage difference between the pills you swallow and the sublingual stuff. Hmmmmmmmmm.
Bob
Posted by dove on October 8, 1999, at 15:02:05
In reply to Re: Melatonin, posted by Bob on October 8, 1999, at 12:20:19
My husband got head-aches from the 3mg Melatonin that is swallowed the normal way. We tried cutting them in half, then they didn't work as well. Went back to that higher dosage and he still got head-aches and had some depression in the mornings. Found the sublingual and have never gone back and you can take a fraction of the normal amount.
I also tried the Valerian, which worked okay for me with absolutely no side-effects. The price is more than Melatonin and it just didn't work as fast as that sublingual and the sleep wasn't as great or deep. I am not joking about the difference in my sleep, this is quite serious. I have never in my life slept like I do now, I mean it. I have lived 20 some years :-) without proper and normal sleep and rest. I used to be suicidal everynight and every morning. Now, I welcome the morning and the night I no longer live in fear of Insomnia or my delirious thoughts and emotions taking over my body. Why? Because I am asleep!
dove~ rambling as usual :-)
> It's good to hear about that sublingual method, Dove. Before I started with the prescription meds, I tried both Valerian and Melatonin. Both started fabulously for me in terms of relaxing me and helping get some deep sleep. But after a few weeks, they'd give me headaches. Maybe it's that dosage difference between the pills you swallow and the sublingual stuff. Hmmmmmmmmm.
>
> Bob
Posted by janey girl on October 8, 1999, at 22:33:17
In reply to Re: Melatonin, posted by Dee on October 8, 1999, at 10:53:06
I gave melatonin the old college try and am sorry
to say it did nothing to help my sleep -- either
falling asleep or remaining asleep (chronic insomniac
since childhood).Valerian tea seems to help with generalized anxiety
to a slight degree for me.A calcium and magnesium supplement at night, along
with my trazodone works the best at this time,
although my trazodone is up to 375 mg at night.Best of luck.
janey girl
Posted by chy on October 8, 1999, at 23:13:34
In reply to My 2 cents, posted by janey girl on October 8, 1999, at 22:33:17
Melatonin never worked for me. Tried just about every variant. Gave me migraines; made me nauseated; made me dizzy -- didn't even make me drowsy.
My sister swears by it though.
As for Valerian -- works for me but can't take it most days because I use high doses of Kava Kava regularly. Kava/valaria has been know to induce serial nightmares in those prone to nightmares. Found that one out personally.
Back to melatonin -- it is listed in our references as being acceptable in micro-doses for children. The guideline say 1mg sublingual per 100pounds body weight. But not to exceed 5mg per week. It also suggests milk thistle to help boost the liver is clearing it. shrug.
chy
Posted by Bob on October 9, 1999, at 0:30:23
In reply to Re: Melatonin, posted by chy on October 8, 1999, at 23:13:34
Back when I was thin ... geez, I never really noticed the connection between my weight, how apnea my be disrupting my sleep, and how I just never remember any dreams anymore. DOH!
Anyway, I'm a lucid dreamer. It's soooooooooo much fun. Even helped me break out of a terrifying nightmare once. The one dream about dreaming that I have -- who knows? maybe it WAS an out-of-body experience -- was dreaming of flying. Only three times that I recall. The last one was almost ten years ago. I just floated up out of myself, through the roof, into the crisp, clear black night to glide around all over a sleepy, snow-muffled Ann Arbor. Pure joy -- so intense you'd think you were going to explode because your body couldn't contain it ... but ha! I wasn't in my body! It just flowed from me and out into the night....
When I tried melatonin and valerian, they gave me sleep deep enough to reclaim my dreams. Maybe I'll check out Lifethyme down in the Village tomorrow after I teach ....
Bob
Posted by Scott P. on October 13, 1999, at 23:39:26
In reply to Melatonin, posted by Barbara on October 7, 1999, at 21:03:52
> How safe is Melatonin for a 12 year old female, who is ADHD, on Adderall, 20 mg./day? She sleeps 12 hours per day, but is always tired...the psychiatrist is suggesting that she isn't falling into the "deep" sleep...
>
> Thanks.It's a damn shame GHB (gamma-hydroxybutyrate) is being banned everywhere, and for the wrong reasons at that. It used to be sold over the counter, but it was taken off the market.
GHB has the remarkable property of inducing the deep (stage IV) sleep that people with ADHD and narcolepsy are not getting enough of. A person who takes the proper dose of GHB will wake up feeling very refreshed from a good sound night's sleep, and will remain alert through the next day. In Europe GHB is commonly prescribed to ADHD and narcolepsy patients. GHB is nontoxic, has no side effects, and it is non-addictive, which is why it was once approved for over the counter sales. But the problem is that it works TOO good.
By itself, GHB is not a CNS depressant, and an overdose of pure GHB manufactured under tight controls with pharmaceutical grade ingredients will only make you sleep for a long time (24 hours straight). Which is often mistaken for a coma, since the person is nearly unarousable in that state. Unlike melatonin, anybody who takes enough GHB will fall deep asleep, just like anybody who drinks enough alcohol will get drunk. But unlike alcohol, GHB is odorless and tasteless. Which is why it is the drug of choice for date-rapes.
When combined with alcohol, which is usually served at the same nightclubs where GHB can be found, the effect is multiplied and GHB can be lethal because the person becomes so deeply inebriated that they forget to breathe and die of oxygen deprivation, or they die of the Jimi Hendrix effect (vomit in their sleep and choke on it). So officials everywhere banned the over-the-counter sale of GHB.
After being banned, someone has found a way to manufacture GHB using a certain industrial solvent. Since it is for industrial use, it is usually sold in bulk, and very impure, since it is not intended for the manufacture of pharmaceuticals. Since GHB is the "Mickey" of choice for date-rapes, people will brew it up in their garages solely for that purpose, without regards to purity of the ingredients or control of its manufacture. The resulting home-brew GHB often POISONS the date rape victim to death.
So a once wonderful alternative to ADHD, narcolepsy, and other sleep deprivation related mental disorders is no longer legally available in a safe form because of the stink that is now attached to it due to date rapes and accidental deaths of those who unknowingly ingested GHB.
This is the end of the thread.
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