![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 11 to 35 of 47. Go back in thread:
Posted by BarbaraCat on September 11, 2003, at 22:07:47
In reply to Re: ok so who is knowledgeable about meth?, posted by Festus on September 10, 2003, at 21:57:21
Can you talk more about your neighborhood, Festus? Not to give anything away about the who and where of you, but you know of this dark, creepy yet seductive world and we want to know of it too - at least how you interpret it. So much of our entertainment and advertisement world gets created from this dark, dank and glamourous tomb. It's seductive. It's the lure of the vampire thing, the grunge, the dabbling in the dark. I've never done crack, it was after the jones of my addiction, but I can only imagine!!? It's the hollow craving but more so. One begins to crave the dark excitement without ever realizing it's enthralled you. The stories of mothers leaving their babies to die while they toot says it all. What can do this to a human being?
Please write more. Your words will be appreciated and honored here where they will be understood. - BarbaraCat
> Your very realistic post painted a near-perfect picture,Barbra Cat,of the past when I lived in a neighborhood propelled by "Meth"or that,s what they called this particular mixture.One guy,s bro was a chemist ,had it analyzed,stuff had a little baby powder,a touch of strychnine(yea,the poison they use to kill rats,but a little of it helps the overall effects )and some other trash.Oh,yea,just the kind of crap you,d want to inject right into your purty little vein!I saw some of em,dark,hollow eye sockets,sunk-in cheek bones,all layin around in the room,shades pulled tight to keep out that nasty ol,sunlight so the room would take on more of a tomb-like aura.Oh,yea,I forgot:this was suppose to be a party.Nobody was laughin,though,they all just chain-smoked and hacked up brown crud from their lungs,"enjoyin"themselves,waitin till their pulses slowed juuuust enough to shoot another hit,so they would,nt have cardiac arrest or any of them Party-Poopin type spoilers,you know,where someone goes into Amphetamine Pshychosis and starts foamin at the mouth or somebody else"crashes" after only bein up for 4 days.Whimps!But,hey,this is a party afterall,so lets all have some"fun",to heck with those party wreckers!We can go to the ER later,but for now.......
Posted by judy1 on September 13, 2003, at 11:00:51
In reply to Re: ok so who is knowledgeable about meth? » starlight, posted by BarbaraCat on September 11, 2003, at 20:11:16
I'm very curious about what your pdoc has to say about your past drug use and your bipolar diagnosis. I also have a bp1 dx, and used cocaine extensively in my 20's- a decade ago- but really had bp symptoms since my teens (my father was also dxed with manic depression and was an alcoholic). I guess I always looked at it as a way to self-medicate, are those your feelings too? Have you had any brain studies done- PET scan, etc.? I did and have a small hippocampus which my pdoc claims is a result of childhood abuse or PTSD, he never mentioned any changes in brain structure as a result of drug abuse. Although if you think about it, the same pathways are affected so I would think it has to contribute. How are your symptoms now? Are you on meds currently? Thanks and sorry to get away from the meth subject- the people I knew on meth were a whole lot scarier then the people I knew on coke.
take care, judy
Posted by BarbaraCat on September 13, 2003, at 15:41:14
In reply to Re: ok so who is knowledgeable about meth? » BarbaraCat, posted by judy1 on September 13, 2003, at 11:00:51
A very good question and one that I've wondered many times. I don't know about long term use of meth/coke and doubt if anyone knows for sure. None of my pdocs have been particularly knowledgeable about this subject which I think is more in the realm of neuropsychiatry and neurophysiology. Yes, I definitely used it to self medicate. A friend in high school ripped off some black beauties from her pharmacy sales clerk job and I thought 'Oh my God, this is what normal feels like!' But I had had a very abusive situation because of my father's BP and I was already very depressed, and understandably so. If I had been able to use it therapeutically and not need more more more, who knows where I'd be? It could have been enough to offset the severe depression that was just getting a foothold, and happily retrained my neural circuitry because it did make me feel so very very much better, at first. Perhaps I was really ADD which is why I felt so focussed, calm and normal on an amphetamine, but perhaps I developed a much more severe BP-1 condition because of neuro-damage from meth? Would I be less prone to a neurochemical imbalance if I hadn't fried my brain 30 years ago? I think that's probably a given, but to what extent?
My genes and abusive childhood make my illness highly probable, but how would I be had I not indulged to the point of neuro-toxicity? My brain is not going to be pink, grey and healthy no matter what because of the childhood abuse. Do others who had a wonderful childhood with no hint of genetic taint go on to develop a mood disorder by abusing stimulants?
The lines get so blurred because we both, and probably 90% of other abusers, have had childhood trauma which appears to definitely affect the brain structure. The hippocampal structure contains the amygdala, which is the 'fear' center of the brain, so any change to that structure is going to do something as regards to fear, anxiety, stress, etc. PTSD is going to do harm to that structure, but how much harm was postponed or reinterpreted due to the effects of 'self-medicating' due to an intolerable childhood?
There was a poll a while back on this board asking who had good childhoods and were still depressed/bipolar. It was very surprising how many had great childhoods, in fact, most did. But the question about drugs' contribution did not come up. Maybe it's time to do another poll.
Alot of publicity has been paid to celebrities' abuse of coke and their subsequent Parkinson's Disease. We personally know a few people like that. But even with something which seems a no-brainer in it's obvious connection, neurologists can't say for sure if there is a correlation. Some even say that the coke delayed the inevitable, that the coke was self-medicating a condition that was already in progress and actually acted as a protective agent. Hmmm, maybe in therapeutic quantities, but it seems very likely that persistent overuse is going to do SOMETHING unhealthy. I guess the question comes down to, is is permanent? This would be a very good subject for someone's dissertation.
Here's a question for you. What is it about meth vs. coke users that were different/darker? In what way and why do you think that's so? - Barbara
> I'm very curious about what your pdoc has to say about your past drug use and your bipolar diagnosis. I also have a bp1 dx, and used cocaine extensively in my 20's- a decade ago- but really had bp symptoms since my teens (my father was also dxed with manic depression and was an alcoholic). I guess I always looked at it as a way to self-medicate, are those your feelings too? Have you had any brain studies done- PET scan, etc.? I did and have a small hippocampus which my pdoc claims is a result of childhood abuse or PTSD, he never mentioned any changes in brain structure as a result of drug abuse. Although if you think about it, the same pathways are affected so I would think it has to contribute. How are your symptoms now? Are you on meds currently? Thanks and sorry to get away from the meth subject- the people I knew on meth were a whole lot scarier then the people I knew on coke.
> take care, judy
Posted by Festus on September 13, 2003, at 20:21:11
In reply to Re: ok so who is knowledgeable about meth? » judy1, posted by BarbaraCat on September 13, 2003, at 15:41:14
Good Evening Seb,B-Cat,All other bro/sis folk who would have to be to frequent this place,
To use a small analogy to perhaps,put the Dark and the Light of the areas to which we are transversing(hence the"meth"as the dark,the"Coke"as the light)into perspective,lets use 3 characters.The 3 that would best fit this analogy that come to my"grey,some pink,some chartruese"brain,are the jock,the Momma,s Boy,and the "hippie-freak"(AKA E.Estevez,A.M.Hall,Judd Nelson)in 1985,s"The Breakfast Club".The first 2 guys would probly be the "Coke sniffers",they fit the mold of the Class and the Bucks that go with those particular types.The third guy is gonna be the classic Meth type,the mold is there,middle or lower-middle class,with not a lot of bucks,Methis much cheaper than Coke and can be made by most anyone that can get the ingredients.You always see Meth labs in the Dark side of town.The jock and the Brain are from normal families that try to raise their kids to be the "ideal"students so they will grow to be part of the Beautiful People(the wealthy).The "punk,freak,thief,hippie"kid is sub-raised by older punk,freak,hippie types who have abused themselves ,grew up to become nothing and take their misery out on their children,as in the case of the kid Judd Nelson played(superbly,I thought.Remember the cigar burn on his arm?)If you think about the differences in the totally 2 different worlds these 3 kids grew up in,you see that something is wrong in all of them.Yet ,thwe one who is probably most sure of himself is Judd Nelson,s character,cause he know,s the"Dark Side"and shows it to the others who can only guess what it must be like,having been sheltered all their lives.They will be the ones to grow into drug users,only they will be the legal kind.I,m sure genetics play a huge part in how we turn out,but we can go for decades un-diagnosed with some of the things that we discover about ourselves later on.Were they there all along?Did they come about as a result of a bad childhood?Or could they even evolve later in life because we had too good of a childhood,created scene-by-scene by our protective,insecure parents?Festus
Posted by judy1 on September 14, 2003, at 12:30:39
In reply to Re: ok so who is knowledgeable about meth? » judy1, posted by BarbaraCat on September 13, 2003, at 15:41:14
Well I just typed a long answer and lost it, so this will be significantly shorter.
I, too, would like to see a poll reflecting substance abuse and bipolar/depresion disorders. Would I do this on yahoo?
I've tried both meth and coke- even though they are structurally very similar, the meth made me a lot more edgy. The meth users I knew as a group seemed quite paranoid and angry, I didn't see that in coke users. This could be a reflection of price- coke was very expensive in the late 80's early 90's and meth was not- so you had a culture of party coke users who usually held fairly good jobs to pay for their product. It also could be a result of how it was taken, those who free-based coke tended to isolate themselves more than those who snorted, just like the people who injected meth were much more hard-core. The heavy meth users I knew did have delusions I didn't see in coke users (but this is just personal experience).
hope this answered your question.
take care, judy
Posted by BarbaraCat on September 14, 2003, at 19:20:40
In reply to Re: ok so who is knowledgeable about meth? » BarbaraCat, posted by judy1 on September 14, 2003, at 12:30:39
Do you think that your use affected your mood disorder? Let's start the poll with you.
1. Did you feel supported/loved as a child from your parents/caretakers?
2. Is there a history of mental illness in your family?
3. Were you moody as a child?
4. When and why did you start using street drugs?
5. Do you feel that these substances affected your neuro chemistry either positively or negatively?
6. If you hadn't used these substances do you think your mood disorder would be the same or different now?
7. Do you still use or get the urge to use these substances?Or something like that. I don't know about Yahoo, unless you want to go outside the Board. Perhaps just putting out on a new thread on the Psycho-Babble board would get takers. Sometimes it takes a few go arounds to get the ball rolling.
> I've tried both meth and coke- even though they are structurally very similar, the meth made me a lot more edgy. The meth users I knew as a group seemed quite paranoid and angry, I didn't see that in coke users. This could be a reflection of price- coke was very expensive in the late 80's early 90's and meth was not- so you had a culture of party coke users who usually held fairly good jobs to pay for their product. It also could be a result of how it was taken, those who free-based coke tended to isolate themselves more than those who snorted, just like the people who injected meth were much more hard-core. The heavy meth users I knew did have delusions I didn't see in coke users (but this is just personal experience).
> hope this answered your question.
> take care, judy
Posted by judy1 on September 18, 2003, at 12:03:43
In reply to Re: ok so who is knowledgeable about meth? » judy1, posted by BarbaraCat on September 14, 2003, at 19:20:40
Okay, I'll start and see if anyone continues before trying to set up something more formal.
> 1. Did you feel supported/loved as a child from your parents/caretakers?
No, there was abuse in my home.
> 2. Is there a history of mental illness in your family?
Yes, father dxed with manic depression and almost certainly an anxiety disorder. There were probably other mental illnesses on my paternal side of the family.
> 3. Were you moody as a child?
Yes, probably starting in the pre-teen years.
> 4. When and why did you start using street drugs?
Pre-teen years, really coinciding with the onset of mental illness symptoms and I think as a relief for those symptoms.
> 5. Do you feel that these substances affected your neuro chemistry either positively or negatively?
Thatis so difficult to say. I was told it was the illness itself (PTSD) that affected my neurochemistry.
> 6. If you hadn't used these substances do you think your mood disorder would be the same or different now?
I think it would be the same.
> 7. Do you still use or get the urge to use these substances?
Yes, I use opiates. I no longer use alcoholthanks for putting the questions together.
take care, judy
Posted by BarbaraCat on September 19, 2003, at 21:34:19
In reply to Poll » BarbaraCat, posted by judy1 on September 18, 2003, at 12:03:43
Wow, Judy,
I think we might be twin sisters! The only thing I can see that's different is I still use alcohol, but no longer abuse it. Opiates continue to be the most successful alleviator for my bleak moods. Thanks for sharing. This should be an interesting poll.
Posted by starlight on October 2, 2003, at 14:57:44
In reply to Re: ok so who is knowledgeable about meth? » starlight, posted by BarbaraCat on September 11, 2003, at 20:11:16
Barbara Cat,
It's so interesting, the way you describe your father is exactly the way mine was. He could be perfectly normal for stretches of time and then turn psychotic for the dumbest things, like two open milk containers....In other news, I upped the dose of Lamictal to 300 mgs a day and like it thus far, am even taking off some weight quite easily, which is a nice lil side effect. Still smoking the herbage though........
Cheers,
Starlight
Posted by BarbaraCat on October 2, 2003, at 15:44:40
In reply to Re: ok so who is knowledgeable about meth?, posted by starlight on October 2, 2003, at 14:57:44
Hi Starlite,
Nice to hear from you! Now that I know more about this bipolar thing, I feel a great deal of compassion for my dad. To have to go through that and feel like there's no hope, plus having a wild daughter. But a person has to do whatever it takes so that they don't harm a little kid. That's just plain cowardly.I can't puff the herbage any more. I just had some about 1 week ago after not having any for quite a while. I felt shaky and tight all over. Thought, hmmmm, this feels alot like a hypoglycemic spell. Did a search on it and sure enough, pot can exacerbate existing hypoglycemia (that's me) and can eventually cause it if done on a daily basis. This explains the munchies.
It's probably my tweaky chemistry. I get frustrated when I'm trying to chill and nothing helps, pot, benzos, pstims, nothin'. I end up wired and tired but can't sleep. Thankfully, this is not always, but too often. Oh well, at least I don't live in Kabul. - Barbara
Posted by starlight on October 3, 2003, at 12:20:46
In reply to Re: ok so who is knowledgeable about meth? » starlight, posted by BarbaraCat on October 2, 2003, at 15:44:40
I have compassion for my dad as well, though find his lack of control inexcusable since the abuse started when I was about 3 years old. I think I've said this before, but I think there's a likely correlation between Bipolar disorder and abusive childhoods. It seems to me that being in a constant state of fear would be enough to really throw off the chemistry of the brain. So if the genetic tendency exists, that's probably enough to throw the switch.
I have an Aunt who has severe bipolar disorder and a serious substance abuse problem as well, which I find extremely disturbing since I enjoy experimenting some - I'd never do anything like meth, coke or heroin, but I've been known to mix a little muscle relaxant, pot and a glass of wine. I'm pretty good at moderating, but sometimes fear that as I age it could get worse, of course it could get better as well and is only to a small degree. I think that's a result though of still dealing with the residual effects of having been in a state of fear for so many years (until I was 17 and joined the Air Force).
Starlight
Posted by BarbaraCat on October 3, 2003, at 17:46:27
In reply to Re: ok so who is knowledgeable about meth?, posted by starlight on October 3, 2003, at 12:20:46
I agree about the Bipolar and abuse link. Was your father bipolar? My father was never formally diagnosed by he was close enough for jazz as far as I'm concerned. Out of 8 kids, at least 4 were very disturbed. But it's so difficult to say if it was because of their lousy childhoods or genetics. Nature or nurture, the age-old question. I think about our cats whom I love so much. The idea of hurting them in any way is horrible, totally repugnant to me. I would lay down my life than willingly hurt them. I just don't understand the kind of psychological torment that could allow that kind of perversion.
Yeah, our brains aren't meant to take that kind of ongoing stress. It clobbers the hippocampus and amygdala which keeps the fear response wired in. My naturopath sees alot of fibromyagia patients like myself and in her estimatation, over 90% have all had childhood abuse and suffer from ongoing PTSD. Our bodies don't like it either and something's gonna give sooner or later.
As far as your aunt's abuse problems, she probably didn't have access to the help we have today for our disorders. They had, what, valium, ECT, Elavil - whoopie. No one went to a 'shrink' for fear of the stigma, and if they did what good would it do. So self medication was about it for relieving stress. I don't subscribe to the 'alcoholism and drug addiction is a disease' concept. One can form a physiological dependence on it and at that point it gets harder and harder. But helpless? Nah, there was always a point to turn back before it got too far out of control. Blaming it on genetics allows a person to roll over too easily. Maybe not a popular sentiment, but it's mine.
The fact is that substances are fun, feel good, and are the most reliable source of an instant lifting of mood. If only I didn't feel like run over dog turd the next day I'd do it alot more. I've had some incredibly transcendant experiences on ecstacy and acid, absolutely lovely buzzes on Vicodin wine and pot, but ye gods, do I pay for it, and it's getting increasingly not worth the pain and self recrimination. The thing that's helping me clean up my act is reading about the effects of substance abuse on my brain and body. Not pretty. As I get older and deal with fibro and bipolar depression, it becomes clear that I have some choices to make if I want to pursue my goal of health and well-being. - Barbara
Posted by starlight on October 3, 2003, at 19:07:39
In reply to Re: ok so who is knowledgeable about meth? » starlight, posted by BarbaraCat on October 3, 2003, at 17:46:27
My father had psychotic breaks, but he's never been formally diagnosed either. He's also not my real father. My real father is a very low key tolerant type of person, which is so much more like who I am that it's kind of strange. It makes interesting discussion for nature vs. nurture.
starlight
Posted by btnd on October 12, 2003, at 18:38:18
In reply to Re: ok so who is knowledgeable about meth? » silmarilone, posted by BarbaraCat on September 6, 2003, at 12:37:08
> Its primary action is to release the stores of dopamine into the synaptic cleft. There is no reuptake mechanism as with SSRI's, so when the dopamine is used up, the natural stores are depleted and each successive dose is like beating a dying horse.
At doses prescribed for ADHD (Adderall 20-30 mg) there is no DRI involved, just the release of newly synthesized norepinephrine and dopamine. But once you go higher on the scale, and start using "recreational" amounts - amphetamines become potent NRIs and DRIs (mainly NRI).
> It's an amazingly addictive drug, mostly because of the horrible, awful coming down that impels you to take more just to keep the black depressions at bay.You can use GHB during the comedown from methamphetamine - it does wonders and is much much healthier on your body that another bump. Actually it is beneficial, because at a dose of 4g GHB you get immediate increase in dopamine production, which was depleted during the meth usage. Not to mention other GHB's positive health effects as a recreational drug and a medicine tool.
And also, I'm kinda stunned - why aren't people mentally addicted to amphetamines (I'm not talking particularly of you, just from what I've noticed on the boards), trying to find the cause or remedy to block increasing tolerance of amphetamines and decrease as much as possible neurotoxicity. Those 2 things which I mentioned are covered by few simple and easily obtainable drugs. I'll post more in few days, or you can use search on "NDMA antagonist" "NDMA DXM" "NDMA L-Theanine", if you're interested.
Take care.M
Posted by BarbaraCat on October 12, 2003, at 21:29:51
In reply to Few words on amphetamines addiction, posted by btnd on October 12, 2003, at 18:38:18
> At doses prescribed for ADHD (Adderall 20-30 mg) there is no DRI involved, just the release of newly synthesized norepinephrine and dopamine.
**Any theories why newly synthesized NE and D aren't released naturally, i.e., why do ADHD folks lack this production?
>
> You can use GHB during the comedown from methamphetamine - it does wonders and is much much healthier on your body that another bump.**Agreed. The FDA has nicely protected us from ourselves and made GHB a class, what 2 drug? So it's not that easy to come across anymore. I used to use it as a sleeping aid and had much deeper more restful sleep than anything prescribed by my docs.
>I'll post more in few days, or you can use search on "NDMA antagonist" "NDMA DXM" "NDMA L-Theanine", if you're interested.
**Very interested. I don't do amphetamines anymore because my brain chemistry has become very sensitized. But I am curious about the chemistry you speak of. And who knows, if there's a healthy touch-down, I might go for it.
- Barbara
Posted by btnd on October 13, 2003, at 14:55:24
In reply to Re: Few words on amphetamines addiction » btnd, posted by BarbaraCat on October 12, 2003, at 21:29:51
> > At doses prescribed for ADHD (Adderall 20-30 mg) there is no DRI involved, just the release of newly synthesized norepinephrine and dopamine.
>
> **Any theories why newly synthesized NE and D aren't released naturally, i.e., why do ADHD folks lack this production?
>None that I know of. Probably genes (brain chemistry/structure)
> > You can use GHB during the comedown from methamphetamine - it does wonders and is much much healthier on your body that another bump.
>
> **Agreed. The FDA has nicely protected us from ourselves and made GHB a class, what 2 drug? So it's not that easy to come across anymore. I used to use it as a sleeping aid and had much deeper more restful sleep than anything prescribed by my docs.GHB, which by the way has many health effects, is now Schedule I. Meth is Schedule II. Xyrem on the other hand is Schedule III (?!). The whole situation with GHB is plain crazy (like many actions done by FDA). For a full picture take a look at xyrem.us
> >I'll post more in few days, or you can use search on "NDMA antagonist" "NDMA DXM" "NDMA L-Theanine", if you're interested.
>
> **Very interested. I don't do amphetamines anymore because my brain chemistry has become very sensitized. But I am curious about the chemistry you speak of. And who knows, if there's a healthy touch-down, I might go for it.Yes, it actually does work. Proper NDMA (glutamate) antagonist and Adderall/Dexedrine - will prevent poop-out.
Posted by Clayton on October 31, 2003, at 19:04:49
In reply to Re: ok so who is knowledgeable about meth? » silmarilone, posted by BarbaraCat on September 6, 2003, at 12:37:08
Not much to add except that I agree and think that amphetamines are probably the most pernicious, addictive and damaging of all drugs ever invented. Coming down is worse than hell and the addictive craving is insatiable.
I "predated" crystal meth and somehow, thank god, missed the whole cocaine scene. But I swallowed a lot of meth tabs ("whites") for about three years in my twenties. I only quit because my supplier moved away.
Right about the time I stopped swallowing pills, I developed GAD, severe SAD, horrific, unrelenting insomnia and an a amotivational syndrome that continues to this day (damage to the "reward system").
I read the reputable medical literature and I am aware of the permanent damage that is done to brain from amphetamine use. It is freightening but I have to face it. My psychiatric symptoms are well within the normal range of behavoral dyfunctions that results from the psysiological harm. And I have come through much better than some. Those folks you mentioned who are missing teeth are a good example.
I am lucky that I have found a good combination of psychotropics that somewhat diminish the dysfunctional behavior and rending mood problems. They are Paxil and Remaron, used synergistically (Paxil alone was almost worthless).
By the way, my father was a depressed and vicious alchoholic and I inherited the addictive predisposition with a vengence.
I cope as well as I am able and am always looking for ways to improve. I was a child of the sixties, far less wild than many who got caught up in that drug scene. I try not to regret it. When all else fails and I am feeling my worst, I try, at a minimum, to exercise my free will to behave ethically and with kindness to others.
Any suggestions are very welcome!
Posted by BarbaraCat on November 1, 2003, at 14:46:53
In reply to Meth, Brain Damage, Dysfunction and Life, posted by Clayton on October 31, 2003, at 19:04:49
Hello Clayton,
Interesting post. I have moments, hell, years, when I despair of what was lost during my unconscious youth. We think we're going to live forever, or at the least never have to pay the piper. I read an entry from my journal 35 years ago while rushing on meth 'I don't care if I have to give up 10 years of my life. This feeling is worth it!' Of course, those 10 years are now drawing nearer and it was definitely NOT worth it.We can only wonder about our symptoms being the result of burning out our brains or whether we'd get it anyway or to what extent. Looking at my father's violent/depressive legacy I don't think I would have escaped. No question that I added insult to injury and suffered biological damage by the stupid things I did. No body is designed to rev that high for that long. But I can't really kick myself too hard. I was a young inexperienced kid always seeking experiences, I was self medicating, and as you mentioned, absolutely in thrall to the most addictive substance I've ever experienced. The fact that you and I were able to crawl out of that pit of craving says alot about us.
Here's what I keep coming back to when I think the damage might be permanent and continuously torturing me. We're living and growing beings, constantly recycling cells. Given the right environment our organs will thrive, even damaged ones. Our neurons regenerated long ago and will continue to do so as long as they're given a fighting chance. Yes, there is brain damage, but that has more to do with tissue death from lack of oxygen than from a chemical assault. Although our drug use was very unhealthy and may have burnt our receptors, they've since adapted and regenerated. I think it's more to do with learning how to express a biological propensity to what society calls 'mood disorder'. I'm positive I got a priceless education in how to have spectacular bipolar mixed states nightmares from bad acid trips. I learned what black depressions feel like from coming down off meth. These things can be unlearned, however, or even better, looked at pragmatically as food for wisdom and empathy. Cells keep dying and being reborn no matter how badly we beat ourselves up. You look at some former 'hopeless' drunks who have survived cirhosis and worse and have gone on to feel, act, and look just great. Life has a way and wants to survive and thrive.
In many ways, I feel that at 52 my brain is finally coming into it's own. I feel clearer and more focussed than ever in my life, I have hope. That's saying alot considering the depths of a very disabling mood disorder which has been one of crushing despair where I thought I could not survive another day. It's taken alot of work and getting into the habit of choosing to treat my brain and body with honor and love. But very gratifying to know that I do have control over what goes into my body - heck, it's the only thing I have any control over at all - and that it's paying off. So please don't chuck it all to some fatalistic belief that there's no hope. As long as you're still drawing breath, there's hope no matter what anyone says. Here's to getting better and better, eh? - Barbara
Posted by Clayton on November 4, 2003, at 12:54:01
In reply to Re: Meth, Brain Damage, Dysfunction and Life » Clayton, posted by BarbaraCat on November 1, 2003, at 14:46:53
BarbaraCat,
Thank you for your kind, empatic and very optimistic reply to my post. You made my day!
By the way, my father was a violent alchoholic, too. I also will never know the ultimate causes of my afflictions.
I strive to stay positive and usually succceed. I look at my problems as no different than anyone elses. Some people are born with horrible congenital defects, some low IQ. Life is not fair and we must play the hand dealt us. We CHOOSE to be happy and productive despite any impediments we may have. When all else fails, and we are at the nadir of depression, we still have a choice: to say "yes" or "no" to life. Despite debilitaing emotional states,we still have the freedom to choose to do right or wrong; to behave as ethical human beings and cling to our values. Above all, we can choose, no matter how badly we feel, to be kind to other hunam beings as you have been to me. More than anything else, thinking about the well-being of others instead of embrassing my own mysery, has pulled meout of the wirst of depresions.Thank you again ffor your wonderful response.
Posted by BarbaraCat on November 5, 2003, at 12:52:04
In reply to BarbaraCat - Meth, Brain Damage, » BarbaraCat, posted by Clayton on November 4, 2003, at 12:54:01
And thank you, Clayton, for your kind words. We've all been through alot, some more than others, and hopefully we've learned alot because of the enforced growth of pain, if we're open to it. I know I'm working on patience and trust - biggies for me. I think of my earlier years which were pretty shallow and self centered and defiant - a little juvenile delinquent who thought only of herself and her immediate gratifications. Fine for a very young child but not serving for an adult.
A severe mood disorder has presented the choice to get a grip, get a heart, or die. When I'm not feeling too crazy I appreciate the crazy wisdom behind it all. When I asked a spiritual teacher why there was so much suffering and pain and depression he said 'We've come here to learn compassion. What better way to learn this than to soften the heart around pain and recognize it and the world as our teacher?' Wise words that I've often come back to when my inner and outer worlds got very rough.
You mention the damage to the brain. I also take heart in what Deepak Chopra says about the quantum field and how the intelligence and consciousness displayed at the atomic level presents infinite possibilities to us. The subtle fields in and around us are not static and can morph and evolve into anything we can imagine. Just because we don't know how to do this yet doesn't mean it's not in our power.
There are so many miracles and so much grandeur to life. When we're depressed and sick we get cut off from the awareness of that splendour, we only see the inside of a static filled grey box. But that splendour is there anyway. Sometimes I remember to look at my screen shots of the Hubble pictures of galaxies and star nurseries and I remember and think 'ah, yes, there is more here than my pain and confusion.' It doesn't take it away but it does give me something to hold onto, like a warm hand in my mind. So, good luck, Clayton, and keep in touch. - Barbara
Posted by CraigD on November 20, 2003, at 1:10:51
In reply to Re: BarbaraCat - Meth, Brain Damage, » Clayton, posted by BarbaraCat on November 5, 2003, at 12:52:04
I managed to stop smoking meth after about a year and two trips to the hospital. I was only able to stop after stopping takings Celexa. It gave me big cravings which I never had before and don't have now.
I was proud -- almost smug- for having the strength to stop. Wish I had earlier. Six months after my last hit I found out the big party left me with HIV.
Posted by KimberlyDi on November 21, 2003, at 10:31:51
In reply to I stopped Meth and it's still killing me..., posted by CraigD on November 20, 2003, at 1:10:51
Incredible courage to say that. Even with that disease, you can realize more blessings now than ever before. That's a time bomb that could drop on many of us. Prayers going out to you.
KDi in TX> I managed to stop smoking meth after about a year and two trips to the hospital. I was only able to stop after stopping takings Celexa. It gave me big cravings which I never had before and don't have now.
>
> I was proud -- almost smug- for having the strength to stop. Wish I had earlier. Six months after my last hit I found out the big party left me with HIV.
Posted by cookie0876 on November 22, 2003, at 11:59:26
In reply to Re: I stopped Meth and it's still killing me... » CraigD, posted by KimberlyDi on November 21, 2003, at 10:31:51
Hi, you guys. I smoked way too much ice. I haven't done it in 8 mos. now. I feel like I'm constantly on speed now even though I don't do it at all. It's weird. I am jittery all day every day - on edge and have weird vibrations all over my body. Did y'all ever have sleep paralysis accompanied by vibrations and a roaring in your head? I had that happen to me and so did my boyfriend - we figured it was from being sleep deprived for so many days and blew it off. I get it now, though, even though I don't do dope anymore. I am taking Wellbutrin and Seroquel - not working yet (6 weeks). I've taken stuff for bipolar too (zyprexa, depakote, gabitril) and everything freaked me out and put me in a panic. My dr. thinks I'm experiencing mania - funny how I was in no way bipolar before doing speed. I am 100% positive my symptoms are related to drug use, and I pray that in time my symptoms will go away. Any advice would be appreciated. I am desperately hoping someone will read this post who also has these strange seizure like vibrations which are truly driving me insane. I just cry and cry when I feel them. My boyfriend can't handle me complaining about it and has left me because I changed (he was the one who gave me the speed in the first place but it's my fault). I used to be independant and self-sufficient and I can't handle life stresses anymore while I am dealing with all these physical symptoms.
Posted by cookie0876 on November 22, 2003, at 20:08:16
In reply to Re: I stopped Meth and it's still killing me..., posted by cookie0876 on November 22, 2003, at 11:59:26
I am so excited I jushad to submit one more post! :) My mom made me see an MD today - not a psychiatrist. He told me that my symptoms are more like partial complex seizures than anxiety attacks or mania. He said he didn't think I was bipolar. I told him about my tingly tongue and vibrations. He gave me Ativan and a referral to a neurologist. Thank God. Do y'all know anyone who has suffered seizures after doing ice?
Posted by Festus on November 23, 2003, at 21:58:29
In reply to I stopped Meth and it's still killing me..., posted by CraigD on November 20, 2003, at 1:10:51
Man,you got a hard lesson learned,Craig,I,m damn sorry for ya.I don,t care if some smug poster comes along and"Well,if you play with fire,you gonna git burned",does that judgemental trip,or you,ll get a few like the kid that posted right after the first gal did,totally oblivious to what you had said in your post,askin for sympathy for her"tingly hands"from too much Ice,but for the most of us I speak:You have a lotta guts and pure courage to come into a forum and lay down that kind of testimony,no cryin or pleadin,just a HUGE warning and reminder,to all of those out there that DO play with fire!Hang in there,Bro!Festus
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