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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 64. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Daisym on April 21, 2007, at 17:38:44
I'm not on this board very much. I sometimes travel around the different Babble boards, particularly when I'm having a hard time and nights get long. Being on the west coast often means no one is up when I'm lonely and flitting around. But that also means I don't get embroiled very often in controversy. (OK, yes I've been PBC'd, I'm not perfect!) I stay over on psychological where I can nurture and be nurtured. We are known as the "soft" group but I'm OK with that. There is a wonderful mix of minds and hearts that push and pull and soothe and support and sometimes even challenge one another. We've all said the wrong thing on occasion and we've all posted things we wish we could take back. And more than a few of us have written "I guess no one cares about this/me" when there is a lack of responses. It hurts when we feel slighted by friends or the group. I think it feels way too familiar for many of us, to be on the outside looking in.
But who defines the "in" group? I have been thinking about this a lot. My whole life I've been the smart, fat girl. I'm practical, not wild, not emotional and certainly never suicidal. But here - I can be all those things, because they might all be true at different times. There is freedom in being Daisy, her body is a non-issue and she doesn't have to hide her feelings. Sometimes those feelings are more welcome and sometimes less welcome here (like talking about suicide). It depends on the mood or "busyness" of the group, and I'm OK with that, because most of the time I know (or can be reminded) not to take it too personal.
My "group" expands and contracts frequently. There are a core of us who have been on babble for years. Many were here already when I arrived. Some have dropped off, some have drifted away, some have died. I mourn these losses but I also am glad for those who have joined, who are now "new" friends and I celebrate the appearance of the "used to be here" babbler when they drop in. And yes there are threads I avoid, for my own reasons.
Why am I writing this? Babble has come to mean a great deal to me. In my journey to find myself and figure out how to know what I know and navigate therapy, Babble has been my AAA: roadside service, emergency repair and insurance against accidents. (Do other states have AAA?) Twice it has very literally saved my life. "It" meaning the people here and the forum that allows honesty, safety and support.
It makes me sad when we don't stop for a minute and think about how hard it must be to provide all those things, and still try to keep this as open as possible for posters to express themselves. I don't want to debate whether Babble is open or supportive or whatever. That isn't my point. I find myself wanting to write something stupid like, "can't we all just get along?" But I really feel that way. And I so appreciate how hard it is to be a deputy here -- it is like being a mom in so many ways. You have to keep it together behind the scenes, enforce the rules, keep everyone safe and meet their individual needs and for all that you end up being the target of their frustration when things go south. "It's not fair! You are so mean!" I've had these things screamed at me by my children so many times. It hurts me when I'm trying to do the right thing for them, even as they hate me for it in the moment.
So to all the deputies, please know that I appreciate what you do and how hard it is to keep doing it. You are loved and I miss you when you disappear and don't post much. IRL I know all too well how it feels to be in charge and yet want to be part of the group too. It is the hardest balancing act there is. You all do it well.
Love and hugs to all Babblers,
Daisy
Posted by tofuemmy on April 21, 2007, at 18:23:46
In reply to An Open Letter to Babblers - please read, posted by Daisym on April 21, 2007, at 17:38:44
Agreed. Big hugs to all the (((((Deputies)))))
emsky
Posted by TexasChic on April 21, 2007, at 19:53:23
In reply to An Open Letter to Babblers - please read, posted by Daisym on April 21, 2007, at 17:38:44
> I find myself wanting to write something stupid like, "can't we all just get along?" But I really feel that way.
Me too. The phrase has been turned into a joke, but the original sentiment is no joking matter.
I hate that anyone has gotten hurt here. But this is a format destined for miscommunication. Combine that with the highly sensitive souls that populate this place and how can the result be anything other than what it is? All we can do is try to keep all this in mind, and try to give people the benefit of the doubt. Not every situation is going to work out, but I think we can at least attempt to steer things in the right direction.
I've found that if you try to be reasonable and non-confrontational with people, then they will usually respond in the same way. Most people aren't here to fight. If someone gets upset with you and you give a sincere apology for what must have been a misunderstanding (or for losing your temper - lets face it, it happens), 9 times out of 10 they will calm down and also apologize. I know its not easy, I'm not saying it is. If it was there wouldn't be any problem.
I'm in no way directing this towards anybody, I've just seen it happen over and over again here - people getting upset over what to me looks like a breakdown in communication. I've just always refrained from saying anything. Hopefully this doesn't come off all preachy and judgmental - I just felt the need to try to communicate what I was feeling.
-T
Posted by zazenducke on April 21, 2007, at 20:33:49
In reply to An Open Letter to Babblers - please read, posted by Daisym on April 21, 2007, at 17:38:44
Daisy how do you think people who don't agree with you should express themselves? You write sometimes about wanting to be heard...and I would really like your thoughts. Are you asking everyone to just not talk about any negative experiences here?
All of the deputies are middle aged white women who frequent the psychology board. Maybe it is easier for you to relate to them than it is for others.
I do not agree with your depiction of them as leaders. They are deputies acting for Bob aren't they? Rather than leading? But I am sure they do the best they can given the rules they work under and the life experiences and genetic endowments they bring with them.
My problem is with their actions and non actions as enforcers of Bob's policies not with them as people. I appreciate the time they spend.
I think the root of the problem is the length and rapid acceleration of the blocks. And the lack of uniform enforcement.
Posted by Gabbi-2 on April 21, 2007, at 20:55:29
In reply to Re: An Open Letter to Daisy - please hear » Daisym, posted by zazenducke on April 21, 2007, at 20:33:49
I didn't see the word leaders used, was it the "in charge?" comment that led to that. If it was I took that differently, simply as being their being in charge of enforcing the rules.
Posted by verne on April 21, 2007, at 20:55:57
In reply to An Open Letter to Babblers - please read, posted by Daisym on April 21, 2007, at 17:38:44
I tried but I only managed reading about half of your open letter. I felt compelled after the "please read" to actually read a post for a change.
I don't think your sigh after one of my posts meant to do anything but make me feel more alienated. "Sigh, he doesn't get it". "Sigh, he's not one of us". "Sigh..." Sort of like, the aforementioned, "Pardon Me". Same crap really.
Emotionally loaded *sighs* and *pardon me's* are allowed as *civil*. Just a different way of telling someone to jump off a cliff really.
I can play the babble word game with the best of them, but I refuse. I could run circles around you, even provoke you into getting yourself blocked, and still not be censored. I'm being nice, and extra civil, by leaving.
I could play your game but the cost is too high. To borrow from Dostovesky, "The price of admission is too high."
Verne
Posted by Gabbi-2 on April 21, 2007, at 21:02:06
In reply to Re: An Open Letter to Babblers - please read, posted by verne on April 21, 2007, at 20:55:57
and felt patronized and belittled.
Posted by zazenducke on April 21, 2007, at 21:05:02
In reply to Re: An Open Letter to Daisy - please hear » zazenducke, posted by Gabbi-2 on April 21, 2007, at 20:55:29
> I didn't see the word leaders used, was it the "in charge?" comment that led to that. If it was I took that differently, simply as being their being in charge of enforcing the rules.
>
>
Yes and this bit about being parental. I don't see their roles like that at all. Sorry I wasn't precise. Thanks for your reply and your interpretation..>> it is like being a mom in so many ways. You have to keep it together behind the scenes, enforce the rules, keep everyone safe and meet their individual needs
Posted by fayeroe on April 21, 2007, at 21:05:18
In reply to Re: An Open Letter to Babblers - please read, posted by verne on April 21, 2007, at 20:55:57
Emotionally loaded *sighs* and *pardon me's* are allowed as *civil*. Just a different way of telling someone to jump off a cliff really.
i totally agree with you on the "sighs"......pat
Posted by zazenducke on April 21, 2007, at 21:10:25
In reply to Re: An Open Letter to Babblers - please read, posted by verne on April 21, 2007, at 20:55:57
That's exactly how I interpreted the sigh.
But I was too snivelly and civil to say anything.
You speak the truth verne.
Posted by Happyflower on April 21, 2007, at 21:20:39
In reply to Re: An Open Letter to Babblers - please read, posted by verne on April 21, 2007, at 20:55:57
Hi Verne,
Just a sidenote, I like Dostovesky too after reading some of his stuff in Philosophy class. I loved the Notes From the Underground! I am so interested in him, I bought "The Idiot" and "Crime and Punishment" to read over the summer! ;-) I would love to be able to write like him! ;-) Maybe I could do "Tales from Babble Underground " LOL Take care! ;-)
Posted by tofuemmy on April 21, 2007, at 22:37:52
In reply to Re: An Open Letter to Babblers - please read, posted by verne on April 21, 2007, at 20:55:57
The sigh *I* am thinking of made me think, "I am exasperated, and feel without words". To me, it's a sound indicating a sad sense of feeling defeated or vaquished. Sorta giving up.
I guess others see it differently?
em
Posted by Honore on April 21, 2007, at 22:41:39
In reply to Re: An Open Letter to Babblers - please read » verne, posted by Happyflower on April 21, 2007, at 21:20:39
How can any of us really know what kind of sigh a "sigh" is? There are so many ways of sighing, and so many undercurrents, and crosscurrents, too.
I personally interpreted the sigh very differently-- but I suppose I can't be at all certain that my reaction was more correct.
I feel sad and dispirited more than anything that so many of us seem disturbed and disappointed in one another or ourselves--
Is there an "in" crowd? I don't feel that way mostly. When I do, I usually think I'm just telling myself a bad story about myself-- the one in which I'm left out and don't belong. I sometimes forget, but I try to remember that that's my story.
To me, the deputies are leaders here (not the only ones, but important ones). I respect and admire their dedication. It means a lot to me, even though I wasn't here when they were participating more actively as posters. They have a lot of history and I respect and admire that as well.
This evening, when I was out, I was telling someone what an amazing place this is, how many intelligent and thoughtful people contribute so much of themselves-- the deputies, as deputies and posters, and so many other posters here. That's it's really amazing that such a place exists-- that it was created by one person and that it continues in such a fine and deep way. Also that I felt bad that there was a bad time here now-- a lot of bad feelings-- and that I thought it was so easy to forget what a special thing it is here.--even now.
I just hope that we can stick with one another here- through the rougher times-- and not become so disillusioned that we lose sight of what we've created together.
Honore
Posted by zazenducke on April 21, 2007, at 22:45:45
In reply to A sigh, posted by tofuemmy on April 21, 2007, at 22:37:52
Posted by Declan on April 21, 2007, at 22:54:06
In reply to A sigh, posted by tofuemmy on April 21, 2007, at 22:37:52
Since I have a bad back I have not read all the posts.
But didn't it start with Phil asking about jokes?
And it goes on and on, with more offence created, and no one knows how to stop it.
Anyway, Verne was not given an escalated block, which is something.
Posted by Declan on April 21, 2007, at 22:55:37
In reply to Re: An Open Letter to Babblers - please read » verne, posted by Happyflower on April 21, 2007, at 21:20:39
"Notes From Underground" is one of the funniest books I have read, especially the first half.
Posted by Gabbi-2 on April 21, 2007, at 22:57:16
In reply to A sigh, posted by tofuemmy on April 21, 2007, at 22:37:52
I think that's probably how it was meant, it was likely a sigh about everything going on. When it's directed directly after a certain post, (not a lengthy thread) and at someone you don't frequently post to, or perhaps never have, I don't think it should be surprising that it's found offensive.
IF I posted one post that was important to me, no matter what the content, and someone I didn't really know took the time to simply post *sigh* underneath it, it would make me feel I wasn't even being acknowledged as a person, and it's a closed comment, it obviously instigates feelings in the person it's directed at but doesn't convey that you consider them even worthy of the dignity of responding.
I'm not saying that's how it was meant (Though at times on Babble I'm quite sure that's the intent)
I'm just saying it seems quite justifed that someone feel looked down upon when it happens.
Posted by Declan on April 21, 2007, at 22:58:57
In reply to Re: An Open Letter to Babblers - please read » Happyflower, posted by Declan on April 21, 2007, at 22:55:37
Maybe it wasn't the first half?
A mistake!
Posted by Dinah on April 21, 2007, at 23:02:19
In reply to Re: A sigh » tofuemmy, posted by Gabbi-2 on April 21, 2007, at 22:57:16
When posting conclusions about speculations of meanings of words or posts, please keep the civility guidelines in mind.
If you believe a post is uncivil, please use the notify the administrators function.
This is a general reminder to all, and not directed to any individual specifically.
Dinah, acting as deputy to Dr. Bob
Posted by Phillipa on April 21, 2007, at 23:07:38
In reply to A general reminder, posted by Dinah on April 21, 2007, at 23:02:19
Dinah how are the pups? Love Phillipa
Posted by Daisym on April 21, 2007, at 23:23:45
In reply to Re: An Open Letter to Daisy - please hear » Daisym, posted by zazenducke on April 21, 2007, at 20:33:49
****Daisy how do you think people who don't agree with you should express themselves? You write sometimes about wanting to be heard...and I would really like your thoughts. Are you asking everyone to just not talk about any negative experiences here?
***Nope - never have ever asked anyone to not post about any negative experiences. People disagree with me ALL the time. What I was hoping to point out was that this place isn't all bad. And all the fighting makes people leave and that makes me sad. Because we are fighting about the fighting now, not the issue anymore. Does that make any sense at all?
Posted by Daisym on April 21, 2007, at 23:37:02
In reply to Re: An Open Letter to Babblers - please read, posted by verne on April 21, 2007, at 20:55:57
I tried but I only managed reading about half of your open letter. I felt compelled after the "please read" to actually read a post for a change.
***Sorry, I'm sort of known for my long-winded posts, I do tend to ramble.I don't think your sigh after one of my posts meant to do anything but make me feel more alienated. "Sigh, he doesn't get it". "Sigh, he's not one of us". "Sigh..." Sort of like, the aforementioned, "Pardon Me". Same crap really.
***Actually, it was meant to convey great, deep sadness because you were leaving. Because that was/is my fear. People leave babble when things get rough. But I can see how it would be misread. Should have waited before pushing that darn "send" button. I apologize for what it must have sounded like.
Emotionally loaded *sighs* and *pardon me's* are allowed as *civil*. Just a different way of telling someone to jump off a cliff really.
****Nope, didn't mean that at all. You don't know me, so you have no reason to believe this, but it isn't how I operate.I can play the babble word game with the best of them, but I refuse. I could run circles around you, even provoke you into getting yourself blocked, and still not be censored. I'm being nice, and extra civil, by leaving.
***** maybe, but I'm not up to the challenge right now. Life is hard enough. And this wasn't meant at all as a word game or even to provoke anything. Should have kept my head down and stayed in my corner. I wasn't even really trying to help calm things down, or choose sides or anything. I was just expressing my own silly sentiments. I feel fully chastised now for doing that. My own risk though, so I'll own it.I could play your game but the cost is too high. To borrow from Dostovesky, "The price of admission is too high."
****I think I agree and will fade away again. I just hope you know that I didn't, don't, never had, anything personal against you. I don't know you, you don't know me. I'm still sad, you sound angry. This is a loss for both of us.
Be well.
Daisy
Posted by Daisym on April 21, 2007, at 23:39:01
In reply to I would have had the same reaction » verne, posted by Gabbi-2 on April 21, 2007, at 21:02:06
Again not my intent. And I can think of no time on Babble that I ever patronized or belittled. So not my style. I hope I didn't make you feel bad by association.
Daisy
Posted by Happyflower on April 21, 2007, at 23:43:23
In reply to Re: An Open Letter to Babblers - please read » Happyflower, posted by Declan on April 21, 2007, at 22:55:37
> "Notes From Underground" is one of the funniest books I have read, especially the first half.
Oh, I agree! Many in my philopsy class was put off by the undeground man, but I thought he was so funny. What an awesome pyschology and philopshy study this story was. I did my paper on him taking a pyschological profile approach. The prof. loved it, gave me an A.
Posted by Daisym on April 21, 2007, at 23:43:30
In reply to Re: An Open Letter to Babblers - please read » verne, posted by fayeroe on April 21, 2007, at 21:05:18
I'm just going down the list to say "not my intent, sorry, didn't mean to offend." I'm worried that it will stop sounding sincere but it is. I guess the message of my post is lost to this. Is there the equivalent of a white flag here?
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