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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 7 of 7. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Deneb on December 16, 2005, at 15:59:04
I have to give myself a civility reminder. I'm getting too comfortable posting whatever is on my mind again. I have to show more restraint. I don't want to get blocked again.
Here are some questions to ask myself before posting something:
1. Does this respect the views of others?
2. Does this make others feel bad?
3. Does this accuse others of doing negative things?
4. Is this sarcastic?
5. Does this make light of or joke about death or injury?
6. Does this contain information about ways to harm oneself or others?
7. Does this jump to conclusions or make generalizations about other people?
8. Does this pressure others into doing things?
9. Does this contain offensive language?
10. Does this contain private information about another poster?
11. Is the information known to be false or is exaggerated?
12. Are there quotes which may be uncivil?
Now there are 3 extra questions that apply to me specifically.
13. Am I threatening to kill or hurt myself?
14. Am I assuming that others want me dead or hurt?
15. Am I asking others to kill or hurt me?
Deneb
Posted by alexandra_k2 on December 16, 2005, at 16:32:20
In reply to Civility Reminder, posted by Deneb on December 16, 2005, at 15:59:04
hmm...
but you aren't hurting anyone - right?
about the above thread...
you said that you knew that it was your 'mental picture' or your 'ideal' of Dr Bob and you appreciate a distinction between the 'ideal' and the real person...
in deriving an ideal from the information we have... there tends to be a lot of information about us in the ideal that we derive / construct...
i think... the thing to watch with ideals...
is that they also tend to be idealisations.
and typically...
it is impossible for reality to live up to the ideal.and the danger can be...
that when there is a mismatch between the ideal and the reality...
then sometimes that can lead to feeling disappointed. and sometimes that can lead to... some pretty negative / hostile feelings...
thats all i'd try and be careful of.
i guess...
but i don't think you are doing any harm...i don't know if i'm making terribly much sense...
i just know that that is something i do sometimes...
and i guess...
if i was dr-bob thats probably something i'd worry about...
about people feeling disappointed or hurt or let down.
but then...
thats probably my projection ;-)
Posted by Deneb on December 16, 2005, at 17:44:40
In reply to Re: Civility Reminder » Deneb, posted by alexandra_k2 on December 16, 2005, at 16:32:20
> hmm...
>
> but you aren't hurting anyone - right?
>
> about the above thread...I hope I'm not hurting or scaring anyone. I sometimes worry that I might be scaring Dr. Bob.
> in deriving an ideal from the information we have... there tends to be a lot of information about us in the ideal that we derive / construct...
I think I agree. There is hardly any information about Dr. Bob's personality here and yet I have an elaborate one of him. All that info must have come from myself. I wonder what my idea of who Dr. Bob is says about me?
> i think... the thing to watch with ideals...
> is that they also tend to be idealisations.
> and typically...
> it is impossible for reality to live up to the ideal.
>
> and the danger can be...
>
> that when there is a mismatch between the ideal and the reality...> then sometimes that can lead to feeling disappointed. and sometimes that can lead to... some pretty negative / hostile feelings...
I hope the real Dr. Bob doesn't crush my ideals too much. But, then again, maybe I will be less obsessed with him when I find out how he really is.
I've had negative feelings about Dr. Bob before. I won't write about them here because I don't want to make him feel bad. I think those things when I have a tantrum.
I think Dr. Bob had to put up a lot with me. I'm sorry he had to experience certain things. I don't know if he is doing it on purpose, but he is like a rock when "dealing" with me. He's always normal even when I'm crazy. I think he is ideal mostly because of this. Is it all in my head? Or is there some truth to this ideal?
Deneb
Posted by alexandra_k2 on December 16, 2005, at 19:31:09
In reply to Ideals » alexandra_k2, posted by Deneb on December 16, 2005, at 17:44:40
> I hope I'm not hurting or scaring anyone.
i think you are okay. and you know that people aren't afraid to tell you if they feel hurt or scaired in response - right?
> I sometimes worry that I might be scaring Dr. Bob.
i think he probably doesn't freak out as much as other people tend to at times...
good to remember he is a person who has feelings (in terms of saying things that are likely to hurt)
but i think he is probably fairly used to it...
i mean...
i think he probably understands (more than most people do) that when posters do go off at him... it is more about the past than about whatever it is that he did. and if you are able to remember that... then it has got to hurt less. not alleviate it altogether... but it has got to hurt a bit less.> There is hardly any information about Dr. Bob's personality here and yet I have an elaborate one of him. All that info must have come from myself.
yep.
> I wonder what my idea of who Dr. Bob is says about me?
i dunno. you are probably the best person to be able to figure that out...
> I hope the real Dr. Bob doesn't crush my ideals too much. But, then again, maybe I will be less obsessed with him when I find out how he really is.i think you will probably find...
that he will be just as elusive / enigmatic / aloof / reserved (insert appropriate word) when you meet irl...
> I've had negative feelings about Dr. Bob before. I won't write about them here because I don't want to make him feel bad. I think those things when I have a tantrum.yeah. i go off sometimes... i think it tends to be less about him... and more about other people who have hurt me in the past... but yeah, i do it at times... sometimes on the boards and sometimes with emails... but yeah, i guess it is important to try and remember that it does tend to be a response to the past rather than the present situation. and try and remember that he is a person who has feelings.
i remember posting something once about 'oh well i'm sure he can handle himself... and if you can't handle the heat you shouldn't play with fire'.
and he posted something like 'all the same i'd prefer it if things didn't get too hot in here...'
and so yeah, i think he can handle himself (and we have certainly seen him do that with some of the disgruntled things disgruntled people have posted). but yeah, good to remember he is a person with feelings. but i haven't seen you go off for a long while now ;-)
> I think Dr. Bob had to put up a lot with me. I'm sorry he had to experience certain things. I don't know if he is doing it on purpose, but he is like a rock when "dealing" with me. He's always normal even when I'm crazy.yep.
me too. i feel the same way too.> I think he is ideal mostly because of this. Is it all in my head? Or is there some truth to this ideal?
well...
i guess thats where you think about what kinds of things there is evidence for.
i mean... you know you were just speculating about his childhood and we have no idea really.
but about the other things...
we know people do go off at him rather at times...
and i've never seen him lash out or post out of hurt or hostility or frustration or anything like that.
but he is a person and i'm sure he feels those things at times.
maybe he is fairly rock solid irl too...
or maybe... the boards bring out the best in him because he has more time to compose himself before responding...i think he probably is fairly rock solid irl...
because it can be jolly hard to compose yourself even on the boards.
but he's probably not quite so solid as he appears on the boards...
because he is playing moderator
and
because the medium is different.i dunno.
i think about this stuff a lot too.
i really try very hard to try and be realistic and not to idealise him too much.
because...
in my experience that tends to lead to rage that is more about the past than about the present.i dunno.
i'm a lot messed up in some respects...
Posted by alexandra_k2 on December 16, 2005, at 19:46:27
In reply to Re: Ideals » Deneb, posted by alexandra_k2 on December 16, 2005, at 19:31:09
i was trying to find this piece that he quoted out of a book a little while ago when you were talking about this (or similar) a few months back now. i've just taken the bits that seemed particularly relevant...
> Holding is the main function of the leader in the VLG. The holding function is most important in cyberspace because this space is far from being a holding environment by its basic characteristics. The leader's holding functions as an anchor to stabilize participants and reduce their anxieties so they feel safe enough to interact. Providing holding also has to do with clear boundaries....
> Contrary to what happens in face-to-face LGs, the main transference towards the leader identified in the VLG is idealization...
> The lack of cues other than textual ones on the Internet can lead to projection of aggressive feelings, but also idealization. Idealization may be enhanced by virtue of the medium... In asynchronous groups, the leader has enough time to consider responses and not act them out, even to consult a colleague, which makes the leader's interventions more optimal, so the idealization has some basis in reality.
> Unfortunately, idealization is a double-edged sword. It fosters unrealistic expectations of the group leader, and when these expectations are not met, the group becomes furious. Also, it creates an intensive counter-transference reaction of the leader. It is very easy to fall into the trap.So...
Dunno if this helps...In case you are worried about the 'intensive counter-transference reaction' bit... That only tends to be negative when the transference is negative...
;-)
Posted by Deneb on December 16, 2005, at 21:13:36
In reply to Re: Ideals » Deneb, posted by alexandra_k2 on December 16, 2005, at 19:31:09
> > I hope I'm not hurting or scaring anyone.
>
> i think you are okay. and you know that people aren't afraid to tell you if they feel hurt or scaired in response - right?That's good to know. I want to learn to accept constructive criticism.
> i think he probably doesn't freak out as much as other people tend to at times...
I don't think he can afford to freak out. It would lead to a breakdown I think. Suicide threats for example, they happen often here. What would happen to Dr. Bob if he worried about them? He'll probably go insane. He probably learned to accept that certain people will die and there is nothing one can do.
> good to remember he is a person who has feelings (in terms of saying things that are likely to hurt)
I will try to remember that but it is difficult to imagine him as someone other than the ideal.
> i think you will probably find...
> that he will be just as elusive / enigmatic / aloof / reserved (insert appropriate word) when you meet irl...I think he will be quiet like me. I think he will make some light small talk and not get into anything personal.
>... but yeah, i guess it is important to try and remember that it does tend to be a response to the past rather than the present situation. and try and remember that he is a person who has feelings.
The weirdest thing...my past isn't all that horrible, at least compared to other people's pasts. I wonder where my tantrums come from?
> i guess thats where you think about what kinds of things there is evidence for.
> we know people do go off at him rather at times...
> and i've never seen him lash out or post out of hurt or hostility or frustration or anything like that.
> but he is a person and i'm sure he feels those things at times.
> maybe he is fairly rock solid irl too...
> or maybe... the boards bring out the best in him because he has more time to compose himself before responding...
>
> i think he probably is fairly rock solid irl...
> because it can be jolly hard to compose yourself even on the boards.
> but he's probably not quite so solid as he appears on the boards...
> because he is playing moderator
> and
> because the medium is different.I think you are right, he has time to compose himself on the boards. I'll just have to catch him off guard when I meet him in person. LOL Just kidding. I wonder if he gets tired of playing moderator all the time? Maybe sometimes he wants to join in on the conversation. I wish we could support him too.
> i really try very hard to try and be realistic and not to idealise him too much.
> because...
> in my experience that tends to lead to rage that is more about the past than about the present.I like to think about Dr. Bob. I don't like to be realistic. I don't expect anything from him, I have all I need from him using my imagination. I don't think I'll be disappointed.
> i dunno.
> i'm a lot messed up in some respects...Me too. :-)
Deneb
Posted by Phillipa on December 16, 2005, at 22:20:12
In reply to Re: Ideals » alexandra_k2, posted by Deneb on December 16, 2005, at 21:13:36
Well I don't think either of you are quiet. You both speak your piece.Fondly, Phillipa
This is the end of the thread.
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