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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by jay on February 12, 2005, at 17:42:15
In reply to Re: Jay gives the Ultimatum..comments needed :) » jay, posted by Gabbi-x-2 on February 12, 2005, at 16:12:53
I hope this comes across the right way..because I appreciate greatly what you said in your second thread. It's kind of silly for me to just put down a few statements than ask for 'comments'...I should try to include much more of the situation than what I did.
Anyhow...thanks again...
Sincerely,
Jay
Posted by jay on February 12, 2005, at 17:56:04
In reply to Re: Jay gives the Ultimatum..comments needed :), posted by Tabitha on February 12, 2005, at 16:48:58
> Since you've already sent this, I'm not sure what comments will be helpful. When I read that it sounds like a final kiss-off letter. I personally wouldn't want to try again after someone said that I lied in my ad and had nothing to offer.
>
> Jay it sounds like the main deal-breaker for you here is that you're wanting more contact than she does. How about thinking of it as a case of two people wanting different things in a relationship, rather than one person being right and the other wrong? It might make for a more peaceful ending for both of you.
>
> I'm just concerned that when you feel rejected by a woman, you seem to judge her pretty harshly. That's understandable, because you must be hurt and angry, but I'm afraid you might be building up resentment that could make it even harder to connect with the next potential partner.
>Yes, you are quite right indeed Tabitha...it should be more than just a final outburst of my hurt. The thing is, I didn't include a lot of information in my post that might lead up to seeing why I was/am pretty frustrated. I've published my 'saga' all over this site, and a lot has to do with the fact that she has a severely untreated depression and refuses help for it. Maybe I should just look at it that way and go my own way. I have no problem in the world supporting someone with a mental illness, obviouslly having one myself, but untreated it is such a horrific and cruel thing I can't stand to watch somebody I care for try to live through without treatment. So, does that maybe make a little bit more sense? I know...nothing is ever, ever black and white. But I think if she does really care for me, she will put up some type of fight, try somehow, and as long as I see that, I will gladly help along the way.
Anyhow...thanks...this is really a messy situation, maybe I didn't make the smartest of moves, but one thing I can't do is spend every day wondering..."does she even care?.."
Sincerely,
Jay
Posted by jay on February 12, 2005, at 18:10:12
In reply to Re: Jay gives the Ultimatum..comments needed :) » jay, posted by KaraS on February 12, 2005, at 17:38:06
> Jay,
> She definitely doesn't appear interested. I have a feeling from what you've said so far that she probably wouldn't be interested in anyone who was interested in her because she doesn't feel she's worthy. Often times when people aren't healthy enough mentally they automatically think less of anyone who would be interested in them.
>
> You deserve more. You are doing much better than she is and are capable of a healthier and more complete relationship. Unfortunately you might have to go through many disappointments before finding some you're compatible with. The trick is to try not to become bitter and keep your heart open so that you can will be able to be participate when someone more appropriate comes along.
>
> KaraThanks very much Kara. In honesty, I even feel sorry for her...and like someone suggested...maybe I am trying to take on the 'rescuer' role. But that in itself could be dangerous. I feel kinda odd right now about the email I sent her, but I honestly think it had to be done. I can't risk going into a depressive relapse, and I would hope she wouldn't want me to anyways.
Thanks,
Sincerely,
Jay
Posted by Angielala on February 12, 2005, at 19:10:39
In reply to Jay gives the Ultimatum..comments needed :), posted by jay on February 12, 2005, at 14:32:18
Hey there, Jay...
It seems like you know that the relationship is over, but are having a hard time letting it go, understandably so (seeing that she doesn't seem to be communicating at all)- so you did exactly what I have always done- gave her the final control in that one last effort. You don't need to do that in the future once you realize that you don't want to be in a relationship. Next time you'll be able to say, "Nope, I gave you a chance or two, it didn't work, I'm not letting you take anything more from me emotionally. It's too bad that didn't work. Bubye.".
Realize that you just made a very good, personal decision, even though it seems like you threw the ball back in her court. You know what you want/need, and it's not her. PLease don't feel badly about this, because soooo many people aren't able to say goodbye when they come to this kind of realization.
On a completely different side...
You mention that she doesn't take her meds and speaks poorly of you taking yours. That's a big red flag. You can help people, people do need help, but when they don't want to help themselves, you can't help them. There is probably an odd jealousy that she has about your confidence in your meds and staying the path. Sounds weird, but I think it happens.
All in all, Jay, this shows me that you are a strong, loving person. You get hurt because you are so loving- it happens to SOOO many people that are loving- just ask the people on this board! Notice that these same loving people are also the strongest.
You have a big heart, find the person that wants to share that heart with you, not break it.
Posted by jay on February 12, 2005, at 20:57:42
In reply to Re: Jay gives the Ultimatum..comments needed :), posted by Angielala on February 12, 2005, at 19:10:39
Thanks Angielala...I really appreciate it...and I also wanted to take a minute to congratulate you and hope for the best now you are gonna be a new Mom. It makes it nice to hear that us, struggling with this horrible illness, can still have great lives, have hope, have children..it is really inspiring.
I think I went the extra mile just so I could have the 'final say', but you are right, there is really no need for that. All of your compliments did make me blush..heh..but no, they didn't go to my head. That was very kind of you.
So, here is to the future....to better times...better days...and Spring will be here soon enough to de-thaw us Northern folk..lol.
Thanks again..
Sincerely,
Jay
Posted by Shortelise on February 13, 2005, at 12:40:03
In reply to Jay gives the Ultimatum..comments needed :), posted by jay on February 12, 2005, at 14:32:18
Jay, it sounds to me like she doesn't want to have a relationship with you. Period.
Your email may just make her very angry. You said she didn't have anything to offer. TO say that will not soften her heart. In fact, your email to her sounds more as though it were written in the anger of rejection than in the hope of mending fences.
It's good practice, Jay. You got out there, you met a woman, and that's great. Things dont' always work out, right? You are obviously and OK guy, so keep looking.
Hugs
ShortE
Posted by jay on February 13, 2005, at 16:11:37
In reply to Jay gives the Ultimatum..comments needed :), posted by jay on February 12, 2005, at 14:32:18
In the latest episode...
So she replies back, just to add more to the frustration. She is trying to basically say *I* am unstable because, a) I 'depend' on medication.. and b) because I work the midnight shift in a group home. A note to that second point is that I am attending university full time and will graduate at the end of this year with my MSW as my second degree. That is why I work midnight...so I can go to school during the day.
So, ya, I must really be 'dysfuntional', eh? Here are her exact words. "I
really feel that you might need a different person in your life ... you work
midnight shifts and are on a lot of medication...and I need someone who is
strong in my life. I know you've gone through a lot and are very
emotional...I really feel for you...and I don't know if you'll ever be off
medications and be able to function in a daytime job. I want a man who is
established and stable....maybe I'm not stable but having a man who is
stable will make me feel secure." So, it comes back to me being on meds and doing really well. As far as me being "emotional"...any of you had that thrown in your face? I have studied plenty of psychology, and my emotional range is just fine. This is silly....I should just ignore it, her, and stop it right now...because I am going to move on, and finally forget about her and search for someone else. (I have had numerous replies to my ad, on the dating website, btw, but of course never returned to them because I am the faithful type who only dates one person at a time.) So you won't have to put up with so much of my whining. :)Thanks for your great comments and support....you guys are like a really good friend. (And it's nice to hear a female perspective about all of this too.)
Sincerely,
Jay
Posted by alexandra_k on February 13, 2005, at 17:07:43
In reply to She wrote back...I replied....what you think?, posted by jay on February 13, 2005, at 16:11:37
Ok so....
Your letter to her (the 'ultimatum' one) did strike me as slightly accusatory.
She is responding in kind.
Time to cut your losses and move on methinks...
Try not to take it personally.
Posted by jay on February 13, 2005, at 17:53:53
In reply to Re: She wrote back...I replied....what you think? » jay, posted by alexandra_k on February 13, 2005, at 17:07:43
> Ok so....
>
> Your letter to her (the 'ultimatum' one) did strike me as slightly accusatory.
>
> She is responding in kind.
>
> Time to cut your losses and move on methinks...
>
> Try not to take it personally.Well...just have a look at my post to Gabbix up above, and it may be a little clearer why I did what I did. She responded out of guilt, it's very obvious. I will just go along, and could really care-a-less what happens to her. That is what it has come to.
Jay
Posted by alexandra_k on February 13, 2005, at 18:08:37
In reply to Re: She wrote back...I replied....what you think? » alexandra_k, posted by jay on February 13, 2005, at 17:53:53
> Well...just have a look at my post to Gabbix up above, and it may be a little clearer why I did what I did.
Oh sure, I think I understand the *why*.
It is just that the way in which we say things has a great impact on the way in which people are likely to respond to us.>She responded out of guilt, it's very obvious.
And I might add *defensiveness*
>I will just go along, and could really care-a-less what happens to her. That is what it has come to.
Ya. Time to move on...
Posted by Gabbi-x-2 on February 13, 2005, at 18:33:25
In reply to Re: She wrote back...I replied....what you think? » jay, posted by alexandra_k on February 13, 2005, at 18:08:37
Is it okay if I'm blunt?
Posted by alexandra_k on February 13, 2005, at 18:37:40
In reply to Re: She wrote back...I replied....what you think? » alexandra_k, posted by Gabbi-x-2 on February 13, 2005, at 18:33:25
yup.
Posted by Gabbi-x-2 on February 13, 2005, at 18:46:02
In reply to Re: She wrote back...I replied....what you think?, posted by alexandra_k on February 13, 2005, at 18:37:40
When have I ever asked your permission to be blunt? I have to worry about making men cry though : )
Posted by alexandra_k on February 13, 2005, at 19:08:16
In reply to Oh that question was for Jay! » alexandra_k, posted by Gabbi-x-2 on February 13, 2005, at 18:46:02
Ah. Good.
> When have I ever asked your permission to be blunt?
Thats right. Thats why I got a bit worried that you were planning on being super-dooper blunt. I was a bit worried.
You ticked my name was all...
Posted by jay on February 13, 2005, at 19:56:37
In reply to Re: She wrote back...I replied....what you think? » alexandra_k, posted by Gabbi-x-2 on February 13, 2005, at 18:33:25
>
> Is it okay if I'm blunt?
>
>Well yes...of course...with some tact..you know what I mean. Dr. Bob...please just let Gabbi say what she wishes. I hope this works out. BTW, I am already 'snooping' around other dating sites...but it's gonna be awhile.
Posted by jay on February 13, 2005, at 19:58:48
In reply to Re: She wrote back...I replied....what you think? » jay, posted by alexandra_k on February 13, 2005, at 18:08:37
> > Well...just have a look at my post to Gabbix up above, and it may be a little clearer why I did what I did.
>
> Oh sure, I think I understand the *why*.
> It is just that the way in which we say things has a great impact on the way in which people are likely to respond to us.
>
> >She responded out of guilt, it's very obvious.
>
> And I might add *defensiveness*
>
> >I will just go along, and could really care-a-less what happens to her. That is what it has come to.
>
> Ya. Time to move on...
>
>Yes...that's the point...keep my mental health in good shape and move on. Thanks. :)
Jay
Posted by jay on February 13, 2005, at 20:11:44
In reply to Oh that question was for Jay! » alexandra_k, posted by Gabbi-x-2 on February 13, 2005, at 18:46:02
I think the reason I understand her behaviour is because I acted the same way in a relationship about 12 years ago. I learned from it, though, and promised I would never put anybody through that again. Especially the "excuses" not to see me (I've talked to her a total of 12 minutes on the phone over a week.) If it smells and looks like it....well you know the rest. Then there is all the rest. A Royal Heap indeed...
Jay
Posted by Angielala on February 13, 2005, at 20:13:18
In reply to She wrote back...I replied....what you think?, posted by jay on February 13, 2005, at 16:11:37
Anyone who sees depending on medication as a weaknes is not worth your time, because they are not in tune with what it means to be responsible for yourself.
Just my two cents
Posted by jay on February 13, 2005, at 20:14:46
In reply to Re: Jay gives the Ultimatum..comments needed :), posted by Shortelise on February 13, 2005, at 12:40:03
Yes..thank you SE. I just put on my parachute and bailed...oh what a relief! I really appreciate your perspective and support. :)
Sincerely,
Jay
Posted by KaraS on February 13, 2005, at 22:42:56
In reply to Jay gives the Ultimatum..comments needed :), posted by jay on February 12, 2005, at 14:32:18
Here's my two cents. You definitely could have been more tactful and less accusatory on the letter to her. That did provoke a defensive response from her. OTOH, what she saw as weaknesses in you I just don't understand. Going to school and then working until midnight to accomplish your goals is very commendable. How anyone could possibly turn that around and see that as a weakness is not thinking clearly at all!! Her insistance that your taking medication is a liability is also something I don't understand. You're happier and more functional than she is. Admitting that the you need the help of medication and then getting on with your life is another strength. It is sad for her that she can't see that.
All in all, as everyone here including yourself has said, it's time to move on.
Kara
Posted by just plain jane on February 13, 2005, at 23:58:48
In reply to Jay gives the Ultimatum..comments needed :), posted by jay on February 12, 2005, at 14:32:18
OK, Jay, what I think:
I have been off the forum for most of this past month and few days and have not had time to read all the posts, so forgive me if I say something that has already been said.
First, what I know.
I know it was January 8 when you wrote complaining that no women would date you.Now it is one month and six days later and you are giving some girl an ultimatum. And, I don't mean to hurt you, but, have you read back through what you've written?
This girl has been behaving as someone who does not want to be in a relationship with you pretty much the whole time since you first met. I may be crazy, but I can smell rejection at 300 yards.
So, I'm wondering, why would you want to be "with" someone who does not care to be with you? How do you figure five or six weeks of acquaintance from total stranger to "love of life"? I don't just mean with her. It seems you are impatient about relationships.
As I have told my son, since every hormore in his body woke up four years ago, if a relationship is going to endure, if two people truly admire and accept each other as themselves, there is time. Lots of it. And over time. if it is to be an enduring relationship, that is exctly what it will do, endure.
I guess I'd best crawl into bed. I'm dozing off here.
Posted by jay on February 14, 2005, at 6:39:14
In reply to what you think » jay, posted by just plain jane on February 13, 2005, at 23:58:48
> OK, Jay, what I think:
>
> I have been off the forum for most of this past month and few days and have not had time to read all the posts, so forgive me if I say something that has already been said.
>
> First, what I know.
> I know it was January 8 when you wrote complaining that no women would date you.
>
> Now it is one month and six days later and you are giving some girl an ultimatum. And, I don't mean to hurt you, but, have you read back through what you've written?
>
> This girl has been behaving as someone who does not want to be in a relationship with you pretty much the whole time since you first met. I may be crazy, but I can smell rejection at 300 yards.
>
> So, I'm wondering, why would you want to be "with" someone who does not care to be with you? How do you figure five or six weeks of acquaintance from total stranger to "love of life"? I don't just mean with her. It seems you are impatient about relationships.
>
> As I have told my son, since every hormore in his body woke up four years ago, if a relationship is going to endure, if two people truly admire and accept each other as themselves, there is time. Lots of it. And over time. if it is to be an enduring relationship, that is exctly what it will do, endure.
>
> I guess I'd best crawl into bed. I'm dozing off here.
>
>
>
>Thank you and I appreciate your post and what you are saying. But when it comes down to talking for ten minutes or less a week on the phone, and being lucky if I get to see her for a half-hour in one month, well I think anyone would complain somehow. I have had a number of very long-term, enduring relationships and know what the foundation of them are made of, and this is not it. Plus add in all the other factors that are mentioned above..it just ain't gonna gel. I hope that clears up some things.
Thanks,
Jay
Posted by jay on February 14, 2005, at 6:42:16
In reply to Re: Jay gives the Ultimatum..comments needed :) » jay, posted by KaraS on February 13, 2005, at 22:42:56
Yep....I've cleared my head pretty well, so back to life and living I enjoy and go.
Thanks :)
Jay
Posted by ron1953 on February 14, 2005, at 6:43:29
In reply to Re: what you think » just plain jane, posted by jay on February 14, 2005, at 6:39:14
All of the above plus Dr. Bob is running out of space on the server's hard drive.
Posted by alexandra_k on February 14, 2005, at 15:03:03
In reply to Re: what you think » just plain jane, posted by jay on February 14, 2005, at 6:39:14
> But when it comes down to talking for ten minutes or less a week on the phone, and being lucky if I get to see her for a half-hour in one month...
I think that that really did indicate that she wasn't interested. All the way back then...
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