![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 4 to 28 of 28. Go back in thread:
Posted by Penny on September 17, 2003, at 14:45:02
In reply to Re: Hurricane Isabel - Bring it On » Penny, posted by Susan J on September 17, 2003, at 14:13:51
Yeah, one of the worst parts of these storms, after flooding especially, is when the animals are left behind when people evacuate and then either get killed or get lost and the owners never find them again. That was a big problem during Floyd ('99) here, with all the flooding. The humane society was finding animals, mostly dogs, that had no tags and they had no way of getting them back to their owners. After that, it was strongly encouraged to get your animals id chipped or at least to keep tags on them.
At the same time, they'd have to forcibly remove me if I couldn't take my dogs. They are my children.
Ya' know what's sad? It occurs to me that there WILL be people who die as a result of Isabel, that there WILL be a great amount of damage, despite the warnings and preparedness.
On a lighter note - for the next year or so, the local weather stations will be running their "We were the FIRST to bring you live updates on Hurricane Isabel" promos...oh jeez...
P
Posted by Susan J on September 18, 2003, at 8:25:53
In reply to Hurricane Isabel - Bring it On, posted by Susan J on September 17, 2003, at 12:46:16
I'm sitting in Annapolis, on the bay, and it's a coming.
That's OK. I have a clean house and an empty dog.... :-)
Posted by Dinah on September 18, 2003, at 10:58:28
In reply to Here We Go........, posted by Susan J on September 18, 2003, at 8:25:53
I'm hoping that all of God's creatures will be safe.
Posted by KimberlyDi on September 18, 2003, at 13:26:12
In reply to Here We Go........, posted by Susan J on September 18, 2003, at 8:25:53
Hold on tight to the computer (and the empty dog). We're praying for you! And a special prayer to Virginia, my birth state, which I've never seen 'cept through infant eyes.
KDi in Texas
>
>
Posted by KimberlyDi on September 19, 2003, at 11:31:18
In reply to Hurricane Isabel - Bring it On, posted by Susan J on September 17, 2003, at 12:46:16
Definately seems quiet here today. I'm aware quite a bit of the East Coast is having a power outage. I hope everyone is safe and insured.
KDi in Texas
Posted by Penny on September 19, 2003, at 12:02:17
In reply to How's everyone from the East Coast?, posted by KimberlyDi on September 19, 2003, at 11:31:18
There are some folks in the triangle area of NC without power, but no major damage was done. Can't speak for the coastal residents...
P
Posted by Susan J on September 19, 2003, at 16:15:25
In reply to Hurricane Isabel - Bring it On, posted by Susan J on September 17, 2003, at 12:46:16
Well, parts of Baltimore and Annapolis are under water and 1.2 million houses without power in VA/DC/MD...
But I'm happy to say, even though I don't have power either, my house, tree, and family all made it safe through the storm. :-) I'm typing from my parents' house. They -- with the 2 generators and every tool known to mankind -- never lost power or cable TV!
My empty dog had no accidents in the house! Every time there was a lull in the rain, I took her out, and noticed every single dog owner in the neighborhood doing the same thing!
The only bad part here was that a nice young couple moved into their first home in my neighborhood 2 days ago! And they lost quite a bit of siding on their house.... :-( I feel badly for them.
Take care, all, I hope everyone is doing well.
Susan
Posted by noa on September 21, 2003, at 18:36:49
In reply to Hullo All from DC/Maryland, posted by Susan J on September 19, 2003, at 16:15:25
I was kind of getting used to it after 76 hours of quiet, but am glad it's back on--I get to take a hot shower!
I was lucky--no damage to speak of, though some nearby not so lucky. A little clean up was all it took for me and my neighbors, and our tree cutters came quickly and got the one downed tree out of here very efficiently.
I didn't mind the outage so much, though I did not like taking the cold showers. Reading by candlelight was getting a bit old, too. And the dumpsters round here are full of rotten food--every day you see all the neighbors hauling more rotting food out. Those trash picker uppers better be here on time tomorrow!Fridge is empty but I still gotta get rid of the smell somehow!
But I liked the quiet with no machine hums whatsoever. And I read the whole Sunday paper--felt like a luxury. And took out some old needlework I'd neglected for about a year or more.
And the weather after the storm has been great--having the power out for 3 days isn't so bad when the temps are moderate and the sun is out. Imagine this during the middle of summer or winter!
Posted by Sabina on September 21, 2003, at 22:13:17
In reply to Re: Power's back, posted by noa on September 21, 2003, at 18:36:49
Posted by Susan J on September 22, 2003, at 10:17:29
In reply to Hurricane Isabel - Bring it On, posted by Susan J on September 17, 2003, at 12:46:16
Well, the hurricane did its damage in ways I didn't expect, and I feel really bad.
My brother lost his power in his week-old new home. He, his wife, his 2 year old son, and his dog were cooped up there with no power. The dog scratched the wood floors, peed on the new carpets, the baby got sick, all the food spoiled, .....
and his wife left him because he's no *fun* anymore. And my brother's just devastated and I don't know how to console him....
He's been working at building his own business, doing 90% of the child care, taking care of his wife when she was sick for the past 10 days, and stressing about how much he was going into debt to buy this new house that both he and his wife really wanted. And now she's gone. She did leave the child with him, though, which is the only good thing I can say....
Why oh why do bad things happen to good people? He had what I believed to be a wonderful marriage....
--The sad sis
Posted by fallsfall on September 23, 2003, at 6:21:29
In reply to The Human Loss :-(, posted by Susan J on September 22, 2003, at 10:17:29
Susan,
Your brother's plate is much too full! I wish him strength to get done what has to be done (like feeding his son), and the wisdom to know what doesn't (like wearing a clean shirt every day).
What a time of turmoil - just the move alone is enough to test the limits of most people. And moves are hard on 2 year olds. And moves are hard on dogs. Things will settle down - they won't be this bad forever.
Maybe his wife was just overstressed? Maybe she'll come back?
(((Susan&Brother&Nephew&Dog&Sister-in-law)))
Posted by Susan J on September 23, 2003, at 12:18:36
In reply to Re: The Human Loss :-( » Susan J, posted by fallsfall on September 23, 2003, at 6:21:29
Thanks, Fallsfall. :-)
> Maybe his wife was just overstressed? Maybe she'll come back?
<<Well, she's come back and they have separate bedrooms. She also is beginning to see that she might be depressed and that might be the cause of her troubles. (I'm sitting here thinking shocker! Cuz that's what I've thought for 2 years). She's going to go to counseling by herself. And then maybe with my brother later.But she thinks being depressed means you are weak and somehow a loser. That kind of makes me cringe a bit, for other than the obvious reasons, cuz I told her about my battle with depression last summer and she seemed so sympathetic. I guess she thinks I'm a loser, then. Oh, well. At least I understand what I'm feeling and am working on it. I hope she can go down that road, too.
> (((Susan&Brother&Nephew&Dog&Sister-in-law)))<<Thanks again! :-)
Susan
Posted by KimberlyDi on September 24, 2003, at 10:35:51
In reply to The Human Loss :-(, posted by Susan J on September 22, 2003, at 10:17:29
I'm sorry Susan. If she is the type of woman to leave her child, the human loss will turn out to be a blessing. He needs to get her for child support and to continue health care coverage for the child. No Mr. Nice Guy. This is for his child's welfare. Support him in this fight (and I know you will).
Maybe he can do careful research to find someone to rent a spare room out to. Someone to be a friend that's good with kids. Is he near you? Could you help him with some things, like laundry once a week? Any help will be one less thing for him to worry about.
I wish you and your brother the best of luck.
KDi in Texas
> Well, the hurricane did its damage in ways I didn't expect, and I feel really bad.
>
> My brother lost his power in his week-old new home. He, his wife, his 2 year old son, and his dog were cooped up there with no power. The dog scratched the wood floors, peed on the new carpets, the baby got sick, all the food spoiled, .....
>
> and his wife left him because he's no *fun* anymore. And my brother's just devastated and I don't know how to console him....
>
> He's been working at building his own business, doing 90% of the child care, taking care of his wife when she was sick for the past 10 days, and stressing about how much he was going into debt to buy this new house that both he and his wife really wanted. And now she's gone. She did leave the child with him, though, which is the only good thing I can say....
>
> Why oh why do bad things happen to good people? He had what I believed to be a wonderful marriage....
>
> --The sad sis
Posted by noa on September 25, 2003, at 19:35:57
In reply to The Human Loss :-(, posted by Susan J on September 22, 2003, at 10:17:29
I'm sorry to hear about this. How sad.
Posted by Ilene on September 28, 2003, at 22:40:15
In reply to Re: The Human Loss :-(, posted by KimberlyDi on September 24, 2003, at 10:35:51
> I'm sorry Susan. If she is the type of woman to leave her child, the human loss will turn out to be a blessing. He needs to get her for child support and to continue health care coverage for the child. No Mr. Nice Guy. This is for his child's welfare. Support him in this fight (and I know you will).
>
"The type of woman to leave her child"? I think that's excessively judgemental. Depressed moms sometimes (often? always?) feel they are doing their children a disservice, and the kids would be better off without them. Or too overwhelmed to deal with the demands of a kid. Maybe she was going to arrange joint custody.It's not like she smoked crack all day, took up with a pimp, and abandoned the child in a dumpster.
Ilene
Posted by Susan J on September 29, 2003, at 8:44:12
In reply to The Human Loss :-(, posted by Susan J on September 22, 2003, at 10:17:29
Arrrrgh! Thanks so much for all the kinds words, guys. This situation is just killing me! I was just starting to feel almost normal again, and now my brother's going through this pain. It hasn't nosedived me, but I feel like I'm struggling.
But no, she's not an awful person for abandoning her kid. I *truly* think it's because she's depressed. When she was young, her alcoholic father left, and her mom had to care for 3 kids, and she didn't do a very good job of it. When *K* was a little girl she had lazy eye, and her mother just never bothered to get it fixed for her. So now K is blind in one eye.
Come to find out, K's son, my nephew, needs to have those tubes put in his ears, and whaddaya know? K has been slacking about making the surgery appointment for that for the past 2 months. My brother finally made it. Maybe K's mother was depressed way back when, too.
But. How do you get a depressed person to at least acknowledge they may be depressed and go talk to someone?
I mean, I went to therapy and the doc's because I felt so bad I couldn't function. I wanted to do *anything* that would make me feel better. Why hasn't K reached that point? She's miserable in *everything* she does right now....
Thanks,
Susan
Posted by fallsfall on September 29, 2003, at 9:09:05
In reply to Re: The Human Loss :-(, posted by Susan J on September 29, 2003, at 8:44:12
It took a couple of months for me to go to therapy. First, I had been going to see my GP for maybe 6 months for back pain. Finally, he said to me that we could do one more set of tests, but if they came back negative that we would need to talk about depression. Talk about panic!!!!! I cancelled a followup appointment. A couple of months later my best friend confronted me about my unreasonable behavior. I would have trusted her with my life, so I had to listen. I put two and two together and made an appointment.
My biggest issue was that I was scared of what it would mean to be depressed. My logical mind said that if I ignored it, it wouldn't be true 8^).
Do you have a good relationship with her? Could you leverage your experience with depression to get through to her? Would she take an online depression test - just to see? Denial is so big with depression, if you can get more than one person from different perspectives to talk to her around the same time she might get the idea.
Good luck
Posted by Susan J on September 29, 2003, at 9:54:32
In reply to Re: The Human Loss :-( » Susan J, posted by fallsfall on September 29, 2003, at 9:09:05
> It took a couple of months for me to go to therapy. First, I had been going to see my GP for maybe 6 months for back pain. Finally, he said to me that we could do one more set of tests, but if they came back negative that we would need to talk about depression. Talk about panic!!!!! I cancelled a followup appointment.
<<OK, I have never really been scared of my depression or acknowledging that I've got it. Could you explain this feeling to me a little better? I think that may be one of K's issues. She apparently is Miss independent superwoman, and being depressed would mean she's weak (in her mind only, of course). Is that kind of what you felt? Or something different?>>A couple of months later my best friend confronted me about my unreasonable behavior. I would have trusted her with my life, so I had to listen. I put two and two together and made an appointment.
<<I've thought of going to her best friend and asking her to bring depression up with K, in a nonjudgmental way of course. I just don't know how to do it and whether it would be a really bad move, or a really good one. ?
> My biggest issue was that I was scared of what it would mean to be depressed. My logical mind said that if I ignored it, it wouldn't be true 8^).
<<Could you explain that to me a little more? Was it that being depressed meant no way out of the misery? Or that you were weak? Or that you had no control over yourself? To me, realizing I was depressed made me go to therapy to fix it. I thought that I could beat it easily with some help. Now, it's been a lot harder than I had thought, but I'd be dead if I hadn't gone to the therapist, I just know it.
> Do you have a good relationship with her? Could you leverage your experience with depression to get through to her? Would she take an online depression test - just to see? Denial is so big with depression, if you can get more than one person from different perspectives to talk to her around the same time she might get the idea.
<<Thank you, I really need help in this. I think I've got a good relationship with her. We went to Weight Watchers last year and I told her about my break up with my ex, my depression, my struggle with my family and weight, how I don't love my parents and probably never will, that type of thing. She seemed very open and supportive and shared some stuff with me, too.But one of the major problems she has with my brother is that he's very controlling. I don't think so, but he can be demanding, and who really knows what goes on in a marriage. He is getting therapy now to see if his behavior is messed up, as well as how to deal with the marriage falling apart. But my brother doesn't think we should talk to K's friends or family (her family thinks everything is wonderful!) because K might see that as him being controlling. So I don't know what to do.
I do agree with you that if several people said something to you, it makes you really take notice. But I don't know if K would see me as a separate person from my brother, you know? I just don't know....
I wanted to write her a little letter and tell her how much I admire her, how strong I think she is, but that she's really not the same old K anymore, and since I've battled depression, I think that's what she's got. I want to tell her it's OK, it's normal, it doesn't mean she's weak, and that talking to someone and getting some medical tests done would help her win the battle. I showed my *draft* letter to a friend and he said that K would get defensive over it. He might be right. Her self esteem is in the toilet right now, none of her friends are telling her what she wants to hear, she's getting in arguments at work, and now she's spending money like crazy.
I know I don't have all the answers, if I even have any. I'm going to see my therapist today and I'll ask her for some help, too. But K is obviously not reacting to depression the way I did, so I don't know what to do. I don't even feel competent to say she's depressed! Just something's wrong. Her behavior is wacked out. And my brother is *not* perfect, by no means, but he's pretty darned good, and I can't see there being anything there worse than everyday stresses of marriage.
This is driving me nuts. It feels so preventable, or fixable, but there's nothing I can do. Both my brother and I try to fix things, solve problems, and that might be bugging K, which is another reason I hesitate to talk to her.
Arrrrgh!
Susan
Posted by Dinah on September 29, 2003, at 13:35:30
In reply to Please Help -- » fallsfall, posted by Susan J on September 29, 2003, at 9:54:32
You might want to step back a bit, and let her family and friends talk to her based on what you've said about your brother being a bit controlling. Unless you're willing to be upfront in acknowledging his part of the problem (and if you do, you're going to get him mad), she probably will see you as ganging up with him.
When I was depressed enough, it wouldn't have occurred to me to get help. It didn't seem like anything would help. I only got help when I was anxious, not depressed. It wasn't denial, just profound hopelessness.
Posted by Susan J on September 29, 2003, at 14:21:21
In reply to Re: Please Help -- » Susan J, posted by Dinah on September 29, 2003, at 13:35:30
Hi, Dinah,
> You might want to step back a bit, and let her family and friends talk to her based on what you've said about your brother being a bit controlling. Unless you're willing to be upfront in acknowledging his part of the problem (and if you do, you're going to get him mad), she probably will see you as ganging up with him.
<<Yeah, I agree, although it's counterintuitive to what I want to do. :-) I am perfectly willing to acknowledge my brother is part of the problem, although I don't think I'm strong enough to hear her criticize him a whole bunch, which is why I want to figure out a way to get her to see a therapist. And my brother won't be mad. He's very willing to figure out what his bad behaviors are and change them. He's willing to do whatever it takes to keep the marriage together AND happy, he just doesn't know what to do.My brother doesn't drink, drug, or hurt K (emotionally or physically). He manages money well, watches their child, does the food shopping, does the cooking, the cleaning, and the outside repairs. K is not contributing at all. He asked her recently to clean the master bath of their 2-week-old new house, and she said yes, she'd do it. She cleaned only the vanity and sink, not the floor (drywall dust everywhere). So my brother, who wants it clean, did it after working all day and then watching the baby. It drives him nuts if stuff isn't clean, and that probably annoyed the heck out of him. Before, he would probably make a joke out of it. I don't know what he does now. I'm not defending him, just trying to give a picture of a really good guy who can be obsessive/compulsive at times. Not saying he's easy, but she always seemed to deal with his little quirks well. Maybe it was a charade, and inside it really bugged her. He is also very loving, affectionate, caring, took care of K when she was sick with the flu for 2 weeks. Stayed by her bedside. He supported her emotionally and financially while she went through school. He's always been very encouraging and wants her to be her own person, have her own friends. No possessiveness stuff or jealousy at all. I personally would kill for a guy like that. :-) Of course, I don't know how their personalities interact. I just figured that if they dated for 4 years and now have been married for 5, that she liked the guy....
> When I was depressed enough, it wouldn't have occurred to me to get help. It didn't seem like anything would help. I only got help when I was anxious, not depressed. It wasn't denial, just profound hopelessness.
<<I'm sorry, that sounds so painful. :-( Was there anything that could push its way through your hopelessness? Did it matter if someone said they really cared about you? Or did you not care, cuz you didn't think you were worth caring for?I'll lie low and back off. I just somehow want her to understand that if she *is* depressed, it doesn't mean she's weak or defective or something. I don't want her to think that if she's depressed, the rest of the world sees her as a loser, or that my family sees her as the cause of all of my brother's pain. She *is* causing him pain, but I sincerely believe it's because she's in so much pain herself....And if she doesn't figure out something is wrong, she might slip into drinking too much or using drugs like many of her family members have. And I have no clue in the world how to deal with that, how to help someone through addiction. Already, she's spending outrageous amounts of money, buying the baby all kinds of clothes he doesn't need, yet never buying stuff like diapers. ??
I dunno. I'm helpless, and maybe that's the hardest thing for me to deal with, since I want to fix things all the time.
Susan
Posted by fallsfall on September 29, 2003, at 16:48:40
In reply to Re: Please Help --, posted by Susan J on September 29, 2003, at 14:21:21
Being depressed, for me, meant that I wasn't perfect. And if I wasn't perfect then I wouldn't be loved; I would be rejected. Understand that this is just the way I saw it, your sister-in-law will have her own spin on it. Going to therapy - asking for help - was proving that I had failed. I should have been able to do it by myself. Somehow going to a doctor for a physical thing like back pain is different (though I now know that depression is physical, too - I really didn't know that then).
Therapy for me was realizing that I had limits. I was 38 and I honestly didn't know that I couldn't do whatever I wanted to. That was an amazingly crushing blow.
I understand completely your desire to make this all better. I really like being in control (because it makes everything come out the way I want it to - perfectly). And I panic when I'm not in control, because maybe someone else won't do it the right way and that would reflect on me. I do think, though, that for many people (and I don't know if she is one of them), it would be very demorilizing to have someone take over when you are already feeling vulnerable.
I think that the conflict of interest that you have between her and your brother probably means that you would do best to work in the background. If you have common friends, you could talk to them about how worried you are and give them some information about depression - and then let them talk to her.
Maybe you and your brother could look at an online test, or the DSM-IV criteria for depression and answer as if you were her. That might give you a better idea of whether you are accurate in your assessment. Your brother probably knows more about her day to day feelings and function than you do.
You could send her a card that says "I'm thinking of you and hope you are doing OK". This would tell her that you are on her side (even though she left your brother), but wouldn't "accuse" her of anything.
When I think that a situation is really important it is SOOOO hard for me to back away and know that it isn't my problem to fix. I am wondering if you feel that way, too.
> My biggest issue was that I was scared of what it would mean to be depressed. My logical mind said that if I ignored it, it wouldn't be true 8^).
I thought that I could fix it by myself and then noone would ever know. If I could fix it myself, then I was still perfect and they could love me.
This stuff is SO hard. It's really nice that you care.
Posted by Susan J on September 30, 2003, at 9:09:14
In reply to Re: Please Help -- » Susan J, posted by fallsfall on September 29, 2003, at 16:48:40
Fallsfall--
> I understand completely your desire to make this all better. I really like being in control (because it makes everything come out the way I want it to - perfectly). And I panic when I'm not in control, because maybe someone else won't do it the right way and that would reflect on me.
<<My mom is a control freak, and she said that sometimes you just want to take control because you know something *has* to be done. Like making sure bills are paid even though your spouse is too lazy or even too depressed to do it. Or picking up a kid from daycare when you know your spouse won't do it reliably. Something like that. Those are the times that *I* want to take control, too. And I think my brother is the same way. Not saying that's good or bad, just saying that's why my whole family wants to jump in and solve this thing. Which, I know, is *not* a good way to look at it.>>I do think, though, that for many people (and I don't know if she is one of them), it would be very demorilizing to have someone take over when you are already feeling vulnerable.
<<I think you are totally right! My brother kept asking her what was wrong, what could he do to fix it, maybe *this* is why K feels bad, maybe if she did *this, this, and this* she'd feel better. All he wants is for her to feel better, but I'm sure it overwhelmed her and made her feel incapable of controlling even the smallest aspect of her life.So I *know* that the way the two of them have been communicating lately is only harming K, and my brother *has* stepped back. K is still filled with a lot of anger, though.
> You could send her a card that says "I'm thinking of you and hope you are doing OK". This would tell her that you are on her side (even though she left your brother), but wouldn't "accuse" her of anything.
<<I really like that idea a lot. I tend (as you can see) to write way too much, and it would probably overwhelm her, too. She already thinks that my family is *really smart* and she's not. That couldn't be further from the truth, but I don't want to do anything she might see as reinforcing that thought.>
> When I think that a situation is really important it is SOOOO hard for me to back away and know that it isn't my problem to fix. I am wondering if you feel that way, too.
<<I feel identically. :-) I'm torn. I *know* I can't fix my brother's marriage. But I *think* I can help K understand that she might be depressed and I want to help her see it's not the end of the world. But I have never seen the end, or even a big problem in a marriage up close and personal like this. In my own relationships, I *knew* things were bad, so the endings hurt, but didn't really surprise me. I have no idea what to do. My therapist said yesterday that I could give K a supportive note. I'll make sure it's OK with my brother first, but I think I'll take your suggestion and just drop a simple one, letting her know I care. Because I do. I hate that she's hurting my brother, but she was and is part of my family and I grew to love her.
>
> I thought that I could fix it by myself and then noone would ever know. If I could fix it myself, then I was still perfect and they could love me.
<<Yeah, K might feel that. I don't know why I don't feel that. Probably cuz I've *never* felt lovable so there was nowhere to go but up. :-)> This stuff is SO hard. It's really nice that you care.
<<Thanks soooo much for being supportive. I really appreciate it. I feel I have nowhere to turn....my parents are very dysfunctional but don't know it. I was hoping my brother escaped but now I'm seeing he has some of the same behaviors I do. There's just so much pain in the world, I thought my brother's life was relatively pain-free, and it gave me hope that maybe I could get there someday. And now he's crushed beyond all belief.Happy note, isn't it? :-) Thanks again,
Susan
Posted by fallsfall on September 30, 2003, at 17:12:44
In reply to Re: Please Help -- » fallsfall, posted by Susan J on September 30, 2003, at 9:09:14
Good luck to all of you. Let us know how it goes.
Posted by Dinah on October 3, 2003, at 21:05:47
In reply to Re: Please Help --, posted by Susan J on September 29, 2003, at 14:21:21
Susan, I hope this doesn't upset you. But your brother sounds a lot like my husband. And sometimes wives in that situation can really really appreciate their husband's good points while still being driven around the bend by the obsessive features.
I know there are times when my husband doing something like you described your brother doing with the bathroom would just make me want to snap and kill myself or run away. It chips away at you and makes you feel like if you're such a rotten housewife/mother/whatever that it wouldn't matter if you were gone anyway.
And that doesn't mean I don't appreciate my husband's finer qualities. It just means that sometimes it makes me want to kill myself.
So maybe your sister in law was both very happy with your brother, and totally miserable as well. And with my husband, he got way way worse with the cleanliness stuff and perfectionism stuff after my son was born.
I hope she's able to work through it. Heck, I hope *I'm* able to work through it. But if she can't, don't think too harshly of her. She might be doing the best she can to survive.
Posted by Susan J on October 4, 2003, at 12:52:54
In reply to Re: Please Help -- » Susan J, posted by Dinah on October 3, 2003, at 21:05:47
Hi, Dinah,
> Susan, I hope this doesn't upset you. But your brother sounds a lot like my husband.
<<No, I totally understand where you are coming from. K's self-esteem when she first met my brother wasn't too strong to begin with. And I'm sure that his OCD type behavior is enough to annoy even a person with extremely high self-esteem. Cuz if I were her and someone kept telling me I didn't do stuff right, it'd wear out my self-image totally.My brother *doesn't* tell her she didn't do it right. Instead he either redoes it, or never asks her to do stuff again and he just does it. But anyone with a few brain cells would see right through that and *know* it was an implicit criticism of their skills.
He's not blameless. I don't think if there are huge problems in a relationship that *anyone* is blameless. But he *is* going to a therapist now to see if his behavior contributed to the situation. I just wish K would get to one, too. I don't think there's hope unless they both get some better life-strategy skills, to say the least.
> So maybe your sister in law was both very happy with your brother, and totally miserable as well. And with my husband, he got way way worse with the cleanliness stuff and perfectionism stuff after my son was born.
<<I can see my sis-in-law being both happy and miserable, but I don't know if she knows *herself* well enough to sort out the bad from the good. And yes, I'm sure my brother's gotten worse since their kid was born, too. :-) I couldn't live with him when we were teens, and I'd never choose to do so now.> I hope she's able to work through it. Heck, I hope *I'm* able to work through it. But if she can't, don't think too harshly of her. She might be doing the best she can to survive.
<<I know. I really feel for her, cuz if she's going through pain anything like what I've gone through, then she's miserable. I just don't know if I can help. And still, the longer she goes without trying to at least clearly understand the situation, the angrier I get at her because I see how much pain it's causing my brother, and even though I've never had kids, I can see that it's starting to affect their kid. It's hard to watch how real life can turn a perfect little baby into someone who will grow up with *issues*. I know everyone does, but this is the first time I've seen it happen.But I totally emphathize with you. I've been on both sides of that coin. I just really *hate* seeing other people in pain because most of the time, there's absolutely nothing I can do to help alleviate that pain.
It's actually gotten worse for them, but I'm too exhausted to go into it. And I know that Dr. Phil is just a sound bite of therapy, but he said something that really struck a cord with me this week. You have to *earn* your way out of a marriage. Long suffering isnt enough especially when you have children. You need to look into every aspect of that marriage and see if you can fix it. And if you then come to the conclusion there's nothing else you can do, *then* you can leave with a clean conscience.
Susan
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