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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by yesac on July 18, 2003, at 16:37:30
Okay, I know that I post about this like every day, but I am just so worried about my time off. It seems like most weekends usually turn out pretty okay for the most part, of course they have their down times like the rest of my life. But is just so treacherous to me to have this time on my hands and not feel like doing anything but being so bored at the same time. I'm stressed actually about all this free time, because I really feel like I should be using it to do something constructive, either for myself for fun/enjoyment, or for "life improvement", my future, etc. But I also don't want to fill up my time with activities that I hate or dread all the time.
Another problem is that I just feel like these times of boredom and aloneness are when I get the most depressed lately. I think that if I am busy and active, I enjoy my alone time pretty well. I don't need to always be with people, especially if I don't like them or feel comfortable with them (like my roomates for example). But when the aloneness feels like it's not my choice, it's just how it is, well... it really sucks. I've been alone a lot in my life because I am just independent, aloof, shy, whatever you want to call it.
I get so depressed racking my brain trying to come up with something to do. I sort of fear leaving work every day, which is why I am still here. I wish I had some errands or something to do but I don't. It's why I've turned to drinking lately, even though I totally know that isn't a good idea and probably will just make me more depressed and possibly less inhibited when it comes to suicide stuff... not that I feel that I won't be able to control it or anything, but you know, your thoughts get distorted under the influence.
I am not a person who is exceptionally exhausted or anything, or can just sleep all weekend. I'm more on the agitated side of things, not exactly full of energy, but I just can't lounge around too well. I need to get out. I need to do things.
Oh, you guys, I really don't think that I can express how awful this is for me. It is truly horrible! Please please help!
Posted by gabbix2 on July 18, 2003, at 17:06:24
In reply to any help will be appreciated!, posted by yesac on July 18, 2003, at 16:37:30
Yesac, I do think I understand how horrible it is for you. I wish I could offer help. On my days off (when I worked) I would get my 2pm anxiety, it was excruciating. The reason i think it was 2pm was because I did my morning *thing*
and then it was blank.. I'd settle down again in the evening. I dreaded these unmarked days.
Summer is the worst time for me because the days are longer.
Again the only thing that helped was getting my depression undercontrol, I hadn't realized the anxiety was part of the depression and the inability to know what to do with myself were all intertwined.
Before that if I tried to sit and read a book
my hands would get clammy, I felt like "No I'm missing something I have to be doing something for my future everythings just going to fall apart.. I'm getting older, I mean my brain would just spin
I don't know if thats sort of what its like for you, but for me its definitely an aspect of the depression and has been treated successfully, and no, I haven't become a complacent slug.
Actually I'm more productive because I can focus and finish something, and its so nice not having that sense of impending doom, when leaving somewhere for home.
Posted by paxvox on July 18, 2003, at 18:57:42
In reply to any help will be appreciated!, posted by yesac on July 18, 2003, at 16:37:30
Hmmmm........ I DO know how that feels. For me, even changing my bedtime on weekends causes trouble. (Especially if I try to sleep in late).
I found that I need to keep no more than an hour and 1/2 to 2 hours off my "normal" schedule on my weekends, or I will definitely get that weird feeling. For me, it is almost a numbing depersonalization,which obviously can be disconcerting. This is made worse if I am by myself, or have no one I know who I can share that sort of information with. You didn't mention in this post your DX or your meds (you may have in other posts, but I did not remember). That would have a lot to do with figuring out how to "fix" your chemicals. Keeping busy is fine, but I think it is just a way to control the symptoms of the problem w/o really treating its cause. I have some OCD issues, as well as GAD and my regular depression, so I am VERY sensitive to changes in my routine. It can be EXTREMELY painful to even go on vacation where different sleeping arrangements are made (as well as a different sleep/wake cycle). So yesac, you are certainly not alone in this problem. Try talking it out some more and let's see what comes up. Also, I found that reassuring "self-talk" i.e. telling myself I'm OK can be helpful. That,along with deep breathing, can stave off a full-blown anxiety/panic attack. OK.PAX
Posted by noa on July 18, 2003, at 19:44:12
In reply to any help will be appreciated!, posted by yesac on July 18, 2003, at 16:37:30
Decades ago, when I was leaving the hospital, this was my concern, too. I had too much down time, alone. One of the nurses encouraged me to look into doing volunteer work, and I did, and it really helped me a lot!
Posted by whiterabbit on July 18, 2003, at 20:10:16
In reply to Re: any help will be appreciated!, posted by gabbix2 on July 18, 2003, at 17:06:24
I'm alone for the weekend too but it's not bothering me right now, I'm just glad to be home after work and then traffic in bad weather...I get wound up pretty quick around other people, need plenty of time alone to unwind.
Here's something you can do, if you don't mind me being so forward...let's figure out what's going on in your head, girl! All of your feelings are familiar to me, they are symptoms of depression and I can relate to every single sentence. Like Gabby said, the agitation and restlessness is part of the depression, and if you can get the depression under control, the rest of it starts falling into place.
I'd be interested to know the details of your medication trials - what medication you've tried, what dosage you were taking, how long you stayed on each medication, the side effects and any benefit you may have noticed, and why you stopped taking each drug.
I know some things now, let me tell you, because I made EVERY SINGLE MISTAKE you can possibly make and still be alive, during my insane odyssey...but some good did come out of these hard lessons, because now I feel the need to help other people on their journey, if I can. I'm not out of the woods all the way myself, probably never will be, but I've traveled the path that you're on now. I know it well.
There isn't one answer, one diagnosis, one medicine, one therapy that works for everyone. That would be way too easy...every person has to find their own way. Still, you may have something or know something that can help others, on this spiritual journey we're on, and I can tell you one secret:
When you are able to offer help to someone who needs and accepts it, that "empty space" in your life begins to fill up.
It's true. So, Casey, let's get you out of there.
If a whackjob like me can stumble onto the place where emotional healing begins, just think of all the things that you could do once you find the same place. The possibilities are endless, but first you have to make your way out of those woods. Follow the yellow brick road...Gracie the Good Witch
Posted by lostsailor on July 19, 2003, at 5:39:46
In reply to Gee, come on over..., posted by whiterabbit on July 18, 2003, at 20:10:16
I am kinda med tired but, but I'll take a stap at this.
Is there any more vol work you can do sinse that was a success in the past. I think society is a bit too work orientated, as oppossed to enjoying a bit of life, but maybe a weekend job that interests you....????
I hope that was added something constuctive.
Posted by yesac on July 21, 2003, at 13:05:54
In reply to Gee, come on over..., posted by whiterabbit on July 18, 2003, at 20:10:16
Hi Gracie -
(First of all, I'd like to say that I really like your name. If only I wanted to have kids, I might name my daughter that!)
You know, it's weird because I definitely do feel like I need my "alone time" to regroup and relax, and being around other people a lot sometimes stresses me out. But it's hard to be alone, too.
>
> Here's something you can do, if you don't mind me being so forward...let's figure out what's going on in your head, girl! All of your feelings are familiar to me, they are symptoms of depression and I can relate to every single sentence. Like Gabby said, the agitation and restlessness is part of the depression, and if you can get the depression under control, the rest of it starts falling into place.I don't mind your forwardness. You are absolutely right, I've realized. I think that NOTHING is going to help me much if I can't get some medication going that really helps me. I think that I was more okay (not less depressed really, but fewer of the other problems like the agitation and the inabilty to concentrate and motivation) earlier in my life even without medication - like in college, because I really was a lot more busy and active, had stuff to get done, was less alone. But now all of these other symptoms seem to have taken over my life and it's practically UNBEARABLE!! I just can't really focus on anything, I'm so bored and miserable all the time, I don't want to do anything, but have a hard time doing nothing.
>
> I'd be interested to know the details of your medication trials - what medication you've tried, what dosage you were taking, how long you stayed on each medication, the side effects and any benefit you may have noticed, and why you stopped taking each drug.Well, first off, except for one, I've stopped taking each drug because they simply didn't work. They did nothing for me. I went up to the highest dose on all of the regular antidepressants, and was on them for usually several months. These include: Wellbutrin, Effexor, Celexa, Paxil, Risperdal, Ativan (I just didn't like that one), desipramine (didn't like side effects so I went off of it). Now I've been on Lamictal for about 2.5 months, which seemed to be helping for a while, but I'm not so sure now. And I've been on Parnate for about 5 or 6 weeks - not noticing anything positive from that yet.
> When you are able to offer help to someone who needs and accepts it, that "empty space" in your life begins to fill up.I do actually want to become a social worker (therapist). I hope that I can do it! There really is almost nothing else that appeals to me for a career because I know that I need to do something that helps people.
> It's true. So, Casey, let's get you out of there.
Yeah... I'm crossing my fingers, waiting, struggling through each moment, hoping beyond hope that I will find something (SOON!) that works for me medication-wise. It is so hard to try all these different things, be patient about it, not feel entirely discouraged and often hopeless like nothing is ever going to work for me and no one can help me. But so far I have managed to just keep holding on...
Posted by whiterabbit on July 22, 2003, at 17:54:06
In reply to Re: Gee, come on over... » whiterabbit, posted by yesac on July 21, 2003, at 13:05:54
Treatment-resistant depression, for sure. Have you thought about ECT? I know it's got a frightening reputation but from what I've read (haven't done it myself) it has really helped some people who didn't find relief with medication...as long as you're carefully briefed on what to expect, that would make it less spooky.
It took me awhile to find the right stuff, I was diagnosed right off with bipolar - which I pretty much knew anyway, but I went without treatment for so long and I was trying my best to self-medicate right into the grave - by the time I got started on medication I was quite ill, suicidal and psychotic. Didn't respond well to Depakote, a mood stabalizer, or Prozac or Wellbutrin. I did start to improve with Seroquel, which helped the anxiety and insomnia and vicious mood swings but not the depression. Paxil cleaned up the depression, and I'm responding well to ADD medication now - better focus and not drinking. Well, okay, not getting drunk.
The other stuff you've tried I don't know much about...I've been scared of Ativan since my son's best friend died after a party from a mixture of Ativan and alcohol...I don't believe that's a treatment drug anyway? From PB I know a lot of people have trouble with Effexor.
Does your psychiatrist seem to be on the ball? I like the guy I have now, he's Number Four. I mean, does your doctor seem to really listen when you talk? Maybe you've got something going on besides just depression. I don't think the Paxil would have helped me if my other symptoms weren't already under control from the Seroquel.
Have you ever suspected anything else, bipolar or ADD or OCD or whatever? Have you thought about getting a second opinion from another psychiatrist? Even if you like the doctor you have now, somebody else might pick up some clues in your behavior that the first doctor is somehow missing.
Well that's a start anyway! There HAS to be something out there for you Casey, I just know it.
;-) Gracie
Posted by yesac on July 23, 2003, at 10:29:38
In reply to Holy Smokes... » yesac, posted by whiterabbit on July 22, 2003, at 17:54:06
> Treatment-resistant depression, for sure. Have you thought about ECT?
Oh dear! I don't know about ECT just yet. Although they do have something new called transcranial stimulation I think, but it is currently only done somewhere in Tennessee. Something to think about though. God, I can just imagine telling my parents I've decided to go for ECT!
It's weird, how treatment-resistant I seem to be. There was one time I was telling my sister that I was going off Paxil, and she said "why?", and I said that it didn't work. She was like "what do you mean it doesn't work?" She just didn't get it that it was doing absolutely nothing for me, including no side effects. Interestingly, I did have some pretty bad withdrawal symptoms, but only for a week or so. Anyway - my doctor insists that there are always other things to try. That we haven't exhausted our options and that we never will. I know that some people go for years with no positive results, and then they finally find some weird combination that does it for them. Not that I want to go for years more, but I'm hoping it will be sooner than that, like really soon. I will say, however, that there is one drug that has truly helped me, and that is trazodone. Only for sleep, nothing else. But ever since childhood, I've had trouble sleeping, and two years ago I first started taking trazodone and it has been great to finally be able to fall asleep. It's not perfect, doesn't always work, but it's SO much better than before. But over the past couple of months, I have gone up and up on my dose, which I don't like. I used to take 50mg for a long time, and now I'm up to 225mg. Not sure what that's about.
It's true, Ativan as well as Risperdal really aren't antidepressants, but more as an adjunct to treat other symptoms that go along with it, especially anxiety and/or agitation. The reason he put me on them both was for the agitation, to help calm me and help me focus and just basically be able to chill out. I didn't stay on either of them very long because I just didn't particularly feel like they were doing much. Maybe if I took higher doses. But I didn't want to feel "zonked out".
> Does your psychiatrist seem to be on the ball? I like the guy I have now, he's Number Four. I mean, does your doctor seem to really listen when you talk? Maybe you've got something going on besides just depression.
>
> Have you ever suspected anything else, bipolar or ADD or OCD or whatever?I'm on #4 also. The first three were women, and I felt a little hesitant about going to a man, but he has been wonderful! I really like him a lot. He listens. We don't talk JUST about medication. He is willing to admit that they don't know everything, which is refreshing because I've known that all along and it's annoying for shrinks (or any doctor) to just act like they know everything. I could never have that kind of blind faith/trust. And he totally accepts that. Also, he's the first who is really available and willing to see me frequently. And he allows patients to call him at home, day or night, if you really need to. Maybe it's because he's in private practice, but to me he just seems amazing. But... I do have to "pay the price" literally. I am sort of holding out hope with him because this is the first time in my life that I've really been aggressively working on treating the depression.
I never really thought much about other diagnoses, but recently I have started to think maybe I have attention-deficit problems. I've taken a few of those online quizzes, with mixed results. The conclusion I've come to about that is that I don't have full-blown ADD, but I think I might have a sort of moderate form of it that wouldn't really be officially diagnosed as ADD. So I might mention that to him when I see him Monday. But it's hard to tell since some of the symptoms are intertwined with depressive symptoms. My ADD-ish symptoms are pretty much: fidgety, oh so fidgety; have always had a hard time reading/focusing, even though I have managed to push through because I do like to read; distracted always by every noise and goings-on around me; mind wanders in meetings and such, and I often find when it's over that I have absolutely no idea what they even talked about - in college I think having to take notes helped me focus in class; procrastination. Also, I definitely have a touch of social phobia too - not really severe - but it does affect my life. Mainly when it comes to speaking in front of people.
Well, Gracie, thanks for your help. I hope you are right that there is something out there for me, and I hope that I find it soon!
Posted by whiterabbit on July 23, 2003, at 15:02:10
In reply to Re: Holy Smokes... (this is long!) » whiterabbit, posted by yesac on July 23, 2003, at 10:29:38
I know I've mentioned this several times but I can't remember to who - memory still bad, I'm hoping this will clear up over time.
After I was recently diagnosed with ADD I wanted to find out more about it, found a great book called "Healing ADD" by Dr. Daniel Amen. He's been able to isolate 6 different types of ADD with the use of 3-D brain scanning. It's important to isolate your specific type of ADD because treatment varies according to type.I was skeptical about my own ADD diagnosis until I read this book. It has a relatively simple self-evaluation to determine the presence and type of ADD, and I did score quite high in one category.
Since starting on medication, a low-dose stimulant three times daily, I've noticed a rapid improvement in focus, concentration, listening and follow-through. From what I understand, the stimulant "fires up" the underactive frontal lobe of the brain which is causing the ADD symptoms.You might find it easier to deal with the depression if your ADD symptoms were addressed. I'm glad to hear that you're still willing to pursue treatment instead of just giving up...at one point I gave up too, after 6 months of feeling like crap on Depakote, I threw away all medication and decided to "clean up". Not too long afterwards I was standing in the waiting room of a strange psychiatrist's office, crying in front of the receptionist...she had told me to go to the ER and I wailed, "I already did that and they sent me here!" and started bawling. I was just so uphappy, I was ready to drive my car off the bridge. Fortunately one of the psychiatrists was kind enough to see me or I probably wouldn't have made it home.
God those were awful days. This divorce is no picnic but if I had to choose between going through this or feeling like THAT again, so hopeless and suicidal, I'd go through a dozen divorces first.
Anyway, back to the ADD - you can find out more information at Dr. Amen's website, www.brainplace.com - I'd highly recommend the book, too. I'm glad you have a good psychiatrist, that's the first and most important step on the road to recovery.
Best wishes-Gracie
Posted by noa on July 23, 2003, at 20:47:19
In reply to Re: Holy Smokes... (this is long!) » whiterabbit, posted by yesac on July 23, 2003, at 10:29:38
TMS--I think there are a number of places doing studies using TMS.
Posted by yesac on July 24, 2003, at 11:58:03
In reply to Re: Holy Smokes... » yesac, posted by noa on July 23, 2003, at 20:47:19
> TMS--I think there are a number of places doing studies using TMS.
Perhaps. I thought that my doc said they only did it in Tenn, but maybe not. He said nowhere around here though. Not that I'm seriously considering it at this time, but he seems positive about it.
Posted by yesac on July 24, 2003, at 13:22:33
In reply to ADD » yesac, posted by whiterabbit on July 23, 2003, at 15:02:10
You had mentioned the book to me once before, and I did go take a look at it at Borders, but I didn't really feel like trying to sit down and do the evaluation. I have, however, done the online evaluations at the amen clinic website. The general ADD test for me said it was unlikely, but the subtype tests said that 2 of them were probably and one was highly probable, so I'm not sure what to make of that.
One problem that I have is that since I am on an MAOI, I don't think that there are any stimulants that I can take concomitently. I wonder if you are right though - if I could get ADD symptoms taken care of, maybe the depression would be easier to treat. Who knows? It's all so up-in-the-air!
I am still at this point willing to keep trying different medications, but sometimes it goes back and forth. There are times when I just feel so frustrated and pissed off with the whole situation that I think to myself "just f***in' forget it! I am just going to continue to live out my life in misery." It could also be some kind of denial that I have always had, that maybe the depression will eventually just pass on it's own, that it really isn't all that serious. But other times I just can't wait to see my psychiatrist and I feel like medication is my only hope. I'm always on the lookout for new and different meds that I could possibly try. It kind of sucks that it has to be like that - like, why can't I just be "normal"? It would certainly save me a lot of money!
Anyways - thanks again for your suggestions. I really appreciate it!
Posted by gabbix2 on July 24, 2003, at 14:02:30
In reply to Re: ADD » whiterabbit, posted by yesac on July 24, 2003, at 13:22:33
>you had mentioned the book to me once before, >and I did go take a look at it at Borders, but I >didn't really feel like trying to sit down and >do the evaluation.
:) That sounds like a symptom right there!
Posted by yesac on July 24, 2003, at 16:08:43
In reply to Re: ADD » yesac, posted by gabbix2 on July 24, 2003, at 14:02:30
> >you had mentioned the book to me once before, >and I did go take a look at it at Borders, but I >didn't really feel like trying to sit down and >do the evaluation.
>
> :) That sounds like a symptom right there!Yeah, I know, I realized that right after writing it!
Posted by whiterabbit on July 24, 2003, at 17:58:51
In reply to Re: ADD » whiterabbit, posted by yesac on July 24, 2003, at 13:22:33
Just out of curiosity, do you remember what ADD type you scored the highest in? I'm the Inattentive Couch Potato. The other types were Classic, Overfocused, Temporal Lobe, Limbic and Ring of Fire.
I would discuss the possibility of ADD with your pdoc, see what he says. Maybe a trial of ADD medication would be helpful...first because, even if it doesn't target depression, you could still experience relief from your ADD symptoms - the restlessness and boredom and difficulty with concentration and focus. Relief from these symptoms could ease the depression.
Don't give up! I know it's hard to mess with all those damn pills - the expense alone can be daunting, never mind the side effects. But once you finally, thank you God, find the right medication - no matter how long it takes - the effort is worth it, I'm here to tell you. I SHOULDN'T be here to tell you, by all rights I should be dead, the things I was doing...but here I still am!
-Gracie
Posted by yesac on July 25, 2003, at 10:51:45
In reply to Re: ADD » yesac, posted by whiterabbit on July 24, 2003, at 17:58:51
My subtype results were: highly probably for Limbic System hyperactivity, and probably for inattentive and basal ganglia. The three others said not probable. I feel like with the inattentive, I definitely can be "inattentive" you know with concentration and paying attention in general, but I am far from "couch potato" and always have been. I'm much more fidgety and can't sit still kind of thing (for example, right at this moment I am shaking my foot quite vigorously!), and I can't really stand inactivity - not to say that I am just SO energetic or anything like that. I just like to get out and get going and feel like I've accomplished stuff with my day. I don't like waiting around and wasting time. But anyway, as for inattentive, my mind also wanders a lot when I'm bored with an activity I'm trying to do, but I wouldn't say that I am usually particularly spaced out exactly.
Anyways, on the www.psychcentral.com/addquiz.htm (I hope that forms a link!), it broke it down into a point system, 35-49 is mild ADD, 50-69 is moderate ADD, and 70+ is full-blown ADD. I got 50.
I feel disappointed right now because I've been on Parnate for over 6 weeks, and supposedly according to my doctor and others on the med board, MAOIs are often SO GREAT (!) for people who have failed all this other stuff, like I have. But I'm not really noticing anything. Maybe I'm just being impatient and I need to keep going with it for at least another month or two, but it's just so disheartening to try drug after drug, go up and up on doses, spend several months waiting for something to happen, and finally determining that nothing is going to happen. It sucks, quite frankly. How long did it take for you to find the right meds?
This is the end of the thread.
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