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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 24 of 24. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by WorryGirl on April 28, 2003, at 8:28:16
Which is it folks? Please help me out here....
I've fallen and I can't get up.
Posted by WorryGirl on April 28, 2003, at 9:21:59
In reply to Am I Dumb, Boring, Invisible, Fake or Weird? All?, posted by WorryGirl on April 28, 2003, at 8:28:16
No more self-pity; how embarrassing. I did get up and even if my insignificant face stared at me, it told me that I can do better than this.
Posted by fayeroe on April 28, 2003, at 9:51:27
In reply to Please disregard that stupid post » WorryGirl, posted by WorryGirl on April 28, 2003, at 9:21:59
> No more self-pity; how embarrassing. I did get up and even if my insignificant face stared at me, it told me that I can do better than this.
Hey,Girl!!!!!! I've done it all...felt the same way........sometimes self-pity is all we can handle at that moment and then God, or someone, hits us over the head and we get up and go on! And you did! xoxoxox
>
>
Posted by Dinah on April 28, 2003, at 9:57:01
In reply to Am I Dumb, Boring, Invisible, Fake or Weird? All?, posted by WorryGirl on April 28, 2003, at 8:28:16
No need to be embarassed. I know I've wondered the same thing from time to time. I usually choose fake. Or maybe I choose that I and the entire world are fake.
Then my therapist asks those darn reality check questions. Do you have any objective evidence to think you're fake, weird, etc. Unfortunately I always have to answer yes to the weird. (I think he does too.) But weird isn't so bad. I prefer to think of it as unique.
Posted by leeran on April 28, 2003, at 10:12:30
In reply to Please disregard that stupid post » WorryGirl, posted by WorryGirl on April 28, 2003, at 9:21:59
WorryGirl,
I call it PMS (Poor Me Syndrome) and I "suffer" from it day to day, moment to moment (and I'm in premenopause/menopause - lol!).
I think it's because I base my self-image on what others think of me, or worse, how I PERCEIVE what others think of me.
All this was at an all time high during my first divorce, wondering/worrying what people thought of me. One day, during one of my most paranoid moments, it occurred to me how I handled "gossip" or news of such events when I heard it in passing: I think about it for a few moments (unless it's happening to someone close to me), then I move on within minutes (in part, because I'm a self-centered human being).
That thought helps "in theory" but I still get wrapped up in it without any warning.
If it helps, I know how you feel and I think everyone else does, too.
Here's to a worry free Monday (and week).
Posted by Eddie Sylvano on April 28, 2003, at 11:33:07
In reply to Am I Dumb, Boring, Invisible, Fake or Weird? All?, posted by WorryGirl on April 28, 2003, at 8:28:16
> Which is it folks? Please help me out here....
> I've fallen and I can't get up.
---------------Don't worry, WorryGirl.
I ask myself the same questions quite a bit. It always seems like no one listens to me, responds to my posts, or whatever. It was a popular topic for me in therapy. I almost feel like I'm not "real" in some way that everyone else is, because people can take a glance at me, seem to size up that I'm not worth attention, and focus on whoever else is around. Both men and women. It's really like I'm not there at all. I'm thinking that I just tend to talk about things that don't interest other people. Just wish I could find someone else that was interested.
Anyway, it really bothers me, and I can relate. Don't feel bad about bringing it up, because that's how you address issues like this, and it's not just self-pity. It made me glad to hear that I'm not the only one that feels this way.
btw, little kids and old people *do* seem to notice me, and in my lack of interest for them, I probably make them feel the same way.
Posted by mair on April 28, 2003, at 12:30:28
In reply to Am I Dumb, Boring, Invisible, Fake or Weird? All?, posted by WorryGirl on April 28, 2003, at 8:28:16
For what it's worth, I used to think that a guaranteed way to finish off a PB thread was for me to post. These days I may still feel disappointed, but not quite as upset. No one likes the feeling of being ignored.
Mair
Posted by WorryGirl on April 29, 2003, at 0:45:55
In reply to Re: Please disregard that stupid post, posted by fayeroe on April 28, 2003, at 9:51:27
Thanks for your kind words - now if I can just go on tomorrow. It's 1:44 am EST and I can't sleep!
Posted by WorryGirl on April 29, 2003, at 0:55:46
In reply to Re: Am I Dumb, Boring, Invisible, Fake or Weird? All? » WorryGirl, posted by Dinah on April 28, 2003, at 9:57:01
> No need to be embarassed. I know I've wondered the same thing from time to time. I usually choose fake. Or maybe I choose that I and the entire world are fake.
>Why are we all so fake anyway? Is it because not many can handle the brutal truth? I swear I can. Yet I go on smiling and agreeing, even when I'm cringing inside. Still so afraid of disapproval, of mommy and daddy's disapproval, of the kids in 7th grade's disapproval. What a crazy world we live in. It's funny how the brutal truth really does sting, even to the point of occasionally leaving me feeling comatose (sp?). But in the end, after I've beaten myself up at least a dozen times mentally I usually have learned a valuable lesson.
> Then my therapist asks those darn reality check questions. Do you have any objective evidence to think you're fake, weird, etc. Unfortunately I always have to answer yes to the weird. (I think he does too.) But weird isn't so bad. I prefer to think of it as unique.
I have plenty of objective evidence, but I won't go there right now! I get your therapist's point and agree that much of our labels are about how we think others are perceiving us even if it is 100% in our head. I agree, weird is usually good, if it is a harmless weird. If I truly qualify that would be a pretty safe label for me - harmlessly weird or weirdly harmless (lol).
Thanks for your response, Dinah - I always enjoy hearing your point of view.
Posted by leeran on April 29, 2003, at 1:08:59
In reply to Re: Am I Dumb, Boring, Invisible, Fake or Weird? All? » Dinah, posted by WorryGirl on April 29, 2003, at 0:55:46
Worry Girl,
Truer words were never spoken (yours copied and pasted below). I wonder why seventh grade can be so traumatic? I know it was for me and for my son as well.
"Yet I go on smiling and agreeing, even when I'm cringing inside. Still so afraid of disapproval, of mommy and daddy's disapproval, of the kids in 7th grade's disapproval. What a crazy world we live in."
You really captured it all in these three sentences.
Lee
Posted by WorryGirl on April 29, 2003, at 1:20:18
In reply to Re: Please disregard that stupid post » WorryGirl, posted by leeran on April 28, 2003, at 10:12:30
> WorryGirl,
>
> I call it PMS (Poor Me Syndrome) and I "suffer" from it day to day, moment to moment (and I'm in premenopause/menopause - lol!).
>
I like that definition of PMS better. Maybe my husband would prefer it to the other, too. That premenopause state can be frustrating; maybe you can let me know what I have to look forward to (lol). I often wonder if, in my late 30s, I'm not in some kind of early premenopausal state. My hormone balance seems to be different than it was before I had children. The difference is definitely for the worse. I've been taking a BCP that I hoped would help but I have only noticed minimal improvement, which is still better than nothing.> I think it's because I base my self-image on what others think of me, or worse, how I PERCEIVE what others think of me.
>
You have just hit on one of my major stumbling blocks. How I got to be such a supposed expert at how others perceive me is beyond me! (chuckle) Sometimes I think I read entirely too much into a "look" or "tone of voice". I know that often I am correct in my assumptions, but it gets trickier when I make these assumptions with strangers or people who are barely acquaintances.> All this was at an all time high during my first divorce, wondering/worrying what people thought of me. One day, during one of my most paranoid moments, it occurred to me how I handled "gossip" or news of such events when I heard it in passing: I think about it for a few moments (unless it's happening to someone close to me), then I move on within minutes (in part, because I'm a self-centered human being).
>I think that the way you handle gossip is how most people do, but I believe that there are women (and a few men, too) out there who thrive on it, and there are usually just enough of them to keep it going, and to draw in the usually innocent bystanders. Even if the gossip is usually forgotten by everyone else, if those one or two gossip-mongers feel that they have hit a sore spot they won't let it go.
About your divorce, people do love to speculate, but they probably really didn't care all that much about it at the time, which, as you said, you now realize. It is still hard to feel susceptible to the gossip at such a vulnerable time in your life. I've been gossiped about because of my breast size (are they real? did I used to be a stripper? yet no one would come right out and ask me), about a very positive (not sexual) relationship with my boss, who almost everyone else didn't seem to care for; I could go on, but I won't bore you any more. Thank God my office days are over for the time being. Maybe by the time I get back I'll be so old and gray no one will care anymore!
>
> That thought helps "in theory" but I still get wrapped up in it without any warning.
>
> If it helps, I know how you feel and I think everyone else does, too.
>
> Here's to a worry free Monday (and week).I'm definitely having insomnia tonight, so I'm hoping tomorrow (I mean today) will be better.
Take care.
Posted by WorryGirl on April 29, 2003, at 1:33:33
In reply to Re: Am I Dumb, Boring, Invisible, Fake or Weird? All? » WorryGirl, posted by leeran on April 29, 2003, at 1:08:59
7th grade must just be the curse every child has to endure until they make it into high school and beyond. I do wonder if the kids who seemed popular during that time turned out OK? Maybe they went through their miserable phase later? I think a lot of them were probably bullies, or just plain insecure.
It must have really pained you to see your son go through that hard time in his life. I actually think it might be every parent's worst nightmare. But we all managed to somehow appear to get through it, didn't we? Why do the scars remain deeper for some than others? Maybe some of us are simply more sensitive.
Leeran, I was teased about the way I talked almost every single lunch break during my entire 7th grade year, and even during part of my 8th grade. Either my 8th grade teacher was intervening behind my back on my behalf or they just got sick of teasing me. I'm embarrassed to say that it turned me into a rather freakish character through junior high. I never took off my jacket, I rarely washed my hair, I avoided eye contact, totally freaked when called upon in class, and was usually hunched over somewhere on the sidelines. It's amazing that I assembled myself to some degree of normalcy in high school. Heck, I was actually kind of cute by senior year (and had very clean hair)! Definitely not one of the popular girls, though, but I was getting attention from some of the boys by then. Adolescence stinks. I pray for my daughters when they have to go through it.
Posted by WorryGirl on April 29, 2003, at 1:45:22
In reply to Re: Am I Dumb, Boring, Invisible, Fake or Weird? All? » WorryGirl, posted by Eddie Sylvano on April 28, 2003, at 11:33:07
> Don't worry, WorryGirl.
> I ask myself the same questions quite a bit. It always seems like no one listens to me, responds to my posts, or whatever. It was a popular topic for me in therapy. I almost feel like I'm not "real" in some way that everyone else is, because people can take a glance at me, seem to size up that I'm not worth attention, and focus on whoever else is around. Both men and women. It's really like I'm not there at all. I'm thinking that I just tend to talk about things that don't interest other people. Just wish I could find someone else that was interested.Eddie,
Sorry that you go through this, too. What did your therapist suggest was the reason for this? If you're like me, don't you try to talk about the topic at hand, but gradually get ignored as they expand upon other topics?
Maybe what they're talking about is really boring you, and you would love to talk about something more meaningful, and they can sense that. There is definitely an art to "small talk"; one that I have never mastered. I always end up digging in too deep, too quickly and it's perceived as weird or socially inept.
Eddie, I don't think you're boring at all. You just aren't connecting in the same way. Maybe one day we'll get there. I need to follow this advice, too, but why don't you try just nodding your head, making minimal comments and laughing at appropriate moments? You might be bored out of your mind, but maybe that's what it would take to be an active part of the group. You may find that you really don't want to be after all; but it still hurts to be ignored, etc.> Anyway, it really bothers me, and I can relate. Don't feel bad about bringing it up, because that's how you address issues like this, and it's not just self-pity. It made me glad to hear that I'm not the only one that feels this way.
> btw, little kids and old people *do* seem to notice me, and in my lack of interest for them, I probably make them feel the same way.
>
>
LMAO - me too! It's so funny when I'm at the grocery store with my kids and someone else's child is smiling and waving at me, but their parent is giving me the stony cold stare, like "how dare you interact with my perfect child?". Elderly people often do try to strike up conversations with me. If I have a few moments I'll chat with them - they are so lonely that it's hard to get away. They'd go on for hours, bless them.Take care, and remember, you always have a voice at this site, even if no one happens to respond. There are probably many people who never post messages but love to read them. Thinking about this, I'm starting to get paranoid that someone I know has read mine - yikes.
Posted by WorryGirl on April 29, 2003, at 1:53:03
In reply to Re: Am I Dumb, Boring, Invisible, Fake or Weird? All? » WorryGirl, posted by mair on April 28, 2003, at 12:30:28
> For what it's worth, I used to think that a guaranteed way to finish off a PB thread was for me to post. These days I may still feel disappointed, but not quite as upset. No one likes the feeling of being ignored.
>
> MairMair,
You could look at it this way. Maybe what your post said finished off everyone's thoughts so perfectly so no one else needed to add anything! I know what you're saying, though, and thanks for the post.
Posted by leeran on April 29, 2003, at 2:03:22
In reply to Re: Am I Dumb, Boring, Invisible, Fake or Weird? All? » leeran, posted by WorryGirl on April 29, 2003, at 1:33:33
Adolescence was so agonizing. I had forgotten a lot of it 'til watched N. (my son) hit seventh grade.
I've always wished I could give him a transfusion of what little I know or have learned in retrospect so he wouldn't have to go through the same angst, but it is part of the process that everyone seems to go through.
I was such a shy geek. I hated high school, but loved college. My grades were just okay in high school, but much higher in college. I was a loner in high school and joined a sorority in college.
I remember watching the Simplex wall clock in high school. Sometimes it would skip back a minute before the bell would ring. I couldn't wait for the bell to ring so I could hightail it out of there.
I hope you're able to sleep soon, wherever you are. I'm on my way to meet up with an Ambien and a pillow.
Take care.
Posted by WorryGirl on April 29, 2003, at 2:09:11
In reply to Re: Am I Dumb, Boring, Invisible, Fake or Weird? All? » WorryGirl, posted by leeran on April 29, 2003, at 2:03:22
Posted by leeran on April 29, 2003, at 2:48:52
In reply to Good night to you, too (nm) » leeran, posted by WorryGirl on April 29, 2003, at 2:09:11
I was just washing this stubborn charcoal mask off my face (trying to be quiet since I'm the nightowl in the family) and thinking about the subject of small talk. The water on my face woke me back up.
I've always been lousy at small talk, despite the fact that I've been in sales for twenty years (cruel irony - I went into advertising for the creative and was seduced by the money on the sales end).
I dread parties or any type of social situation where I have to mingle around, hold a drink and an hors d'oeuvre, AND talk at the same time. Given the choice between a Christmas party and an enema I think I would choose the latter.
Back in high school I was certain my mingling abilty would improve with adulthood. It didn't.
I suppose the "gift of gab" never made it under my Christmas tree.There are some people I feel a real connection with and I can open up to them completely and some people have described me as a warm person, but I don't feel like that in the least. I usually feel self-conscious and bumbling.
One of the many ways I knew I was never going to be a professional small talker was when my son hit kindergarten. It was like high school all over again. Many of the other mothers seemed to know each other from living in the area, or they were just better at mixing in. There was a divorced dad that I always identified with and he was the easiest person to talk to, plus, our sons had been friends since they were three years old and in day care.
One day he told me that he heard through the parochial school grapevine that the other mothers wondered if he and I were having an affair (we weren't and it was never even a remote possibility). That always struck me funny considering I was to shy too approach their group, let alone make a play for this fellow who was simply in a similar boat as I was in.
Hey, remember when you answered about bulemia? I forgot to say thanks for your input on the weight loss, exercise perspective etc. I read the post, then failed to respond. Sometimes I don't like to reply on every thread because I get so tired of seeing my screen name over and over again . . .
My medication combination seems to be kicking in the last few days so I don't feel this need to respond to everything. Plus, my son is home from spring break with his dad so I don't feel quite as listless.
Are your girls still little? I have the impression they are. The day my son turned fifteen I felt such a sense of dread. It's all related to driving (him driving). How is it that this person whose little unborn heel used to dig against my upper ribs from the womb could actually be eligible for a driver's permit??? I just thought about it - I know we've talked about the bulemia. That said, did you have morning sickness with pregnancy?
Oh yeah, regarding dental bridges. I have a six-unit bridge thanks to a college bike accident. The dentist I went to today is an implant specialist as well as endodontist, etc. I would love to have implants to replace two of the teeth - but the cost is astronomical.
I'm assuming the stomach acids do a number on the teeth? I used to be more of a laxative/diet pill taker because, as you might remember, vomiting is another one of my phobias. Adderall is the first thing that's helped my weight since my mid-thirties - and it's still like watching an iceberg melt.
Perhaps in my next life I will be a pencil thin small talker with an overabundance of serotonin and the attention span of a fly versus a gnat!
In closing, I enjoy your posts and your name as well (I can always identify when I see those two words together!). And I, too, feel dumb, boring, invisible, fake, weird (and all) most of the time just about anywhere - not just here. It would be nice to just feel at home in my own skin . . . sometimes I do - but it's in the confines of home.
Have a good week, Worrygirl.
Posted by Dinah on April 29, 2003, at 5:39:38
In reply to Re: Am I Dumb, Boring, Invisible, Fake or Weird? All? » mair, posted by WorryGirl on April 29, 2003, at 1:53:03
Mair, Worry Girl's got it. :) I know that when someone says just what I would want to say if I could say it right, I usually feel kind of silly posting anything after that. Although given the way people tend to interpret being a thread ender, perhaps I should learn to say "What Mair said.".
Posted by Dinah on April 29, 2003, at 5:47:26
In reply to Re: Am I Dumb, Boring, Invisible, Fake or Weird? All? » Eddie Sylvano, posted by WorryGirl on April 29, 2003, at 1:45:22
Boy, I wish I had that art. I always feel so odd at my son's school. All the moms sit and talk and I feel like I'm behind an invisible shield. If the opportunity arises, I talk to someone who looks more uncomfortable than I do. That usually works out pretty well.
But if there's more than one or two people, forget it. There is a conversational rhythm that I just can't get no matter what. I can't figure out when to speak and when to change the subject. So whatever I say I'm usually both interrupting someone inadvertantly and talking about something three topics back.
Sigh. Fortunately, I like to read and often bring a book along. (Not to parties of course, but to playgrounds and that sort of thing.)
Posted by Dinah on April 29, 2003, at 5:55:08
In reply to Re: Am I Dumb, Boring, Invisible, Fake or Weird? All? » WorryGirl, posted by Eddie Sylvano on April 28, 2003, at 11:33:07
Eddie, for whatever it's worth, I think you might be mistaken. I always enjoy your perspective and often identify a lot with what you say. I was happy to see your name on the board again.
I think you may be right about topics. There are some that I don't contribute to, because I don't really feel like I have anything to add. For example I haven't dated someone new for nearly a quarter century. But that doesn't mean I don't read and enjoy the posts.
And sometimes you just might hit the board on a slow day, or when everyone is wrapped up in their own concerns. I know there are some days I just can't untwine my thoughts enough to respond intelligibly to others.
But I honestly do enjoy your thoughts. Didn'e we used to have a lot of conversations on Psychological Babble? Or was it here on Social?
Posted by Eddie Sylvano on April 30, 2003, at 14:23:45
In reply to Re: Am I Dumb, Boring, Invisible, Fake or Weird? All? » Eddie Sylvano, posted by WorryGirl on April 29, 2003, at 1:45:22
> Sorry that you go through this, too. What did your therapist suggest was the reason for this?
-------------------He never suggested anything. He'd just walk me through a series of leading questions whose purpose was to make me evaluate the validity of my beliefs, and ultimately view them as absurd. This didn't really help.
>If you're like me, don't you try to talk about the topic at hand, but gradually get ignored as they expand upon other topics?
---------------I found it very difficult to put my thoughts into words, especially given the criticism that I knew my statements would be subjected to.
He was never one to introduce topics, so that never threw things off. For the most part, he would freeze the conversation for long periods to examine something that I hadn't phrased well enough to express appropriately.> Take care, and remember, you always have a voice at this site, even if no one happens to respond.
-------------Thanks for the kind words...
Posted by Eddie Sylvano on April 30, 2003, at 14:26:09
In reply to Re: Am I Dumb, Boring, Invisible, Fake or Weird? All? » Eddie Sylvano, posted by Dinah on April 29, 2003, at 5:55:08
> Eddie, for whatever it's worth, I think you might be mistaken. I always enjoy your perspective and often identify a lot with what you say. I was happy to see your name on the board again.
---------------Thanks, Dinah. You're a very thoughtful person, and I'm glad you're here, too. :)
Posted by Alara on May 3, 2003, at 6:03:27
In reply to Am I Dumb, Boring, Invisible, Fake or Weird? All?, posted by WorryGirl on April 28, 2003, at 8:28:16
> Which is it folks? Please help me out here....
> I've fallen and I can't get up.
Worrygirl, this wasn't a `stupid post' at all. I really feel your pain. It isn't easy to go through life feeling as though you don't fit in, as though nobody wants to know you. Whether or not your belief reflects the objective truth, that feeling causes pain.We are allowed to feel sorry for ourselves sometimes, you know. It's part of being human. I, for one, reserve the right to having my self pity attacks. I figure that they have a good place in my life - just so long as they don't take over my entire day. Nobody ever moved forward by sweeping all the bad feelings under the carpet.
What was it about the d*** 7th/8th grade?? I was also teased mercilessly for being too sensitive and `goody goody' until I moved to another school and gained more confidence in myself. Later, in my mid twenties, I sat with my therapist working through the trauma of those teasing days. That type of experience definitely scars a person.
My every-day life these days still contains traces of those scars. I suffer from Dinah's `weird syndrome'. I am somehow a little too sentimental, a little too warm, and a little too articulate to fit in with the majority of my peers. I lack the `cool vibes'.. In a social group I often feel invisible.Whenever I start in a new office it takes others time to figure me out and accept me. That still hurts but it causes far less pain than it previously did, because I now have a greater understanding of what's really important. After people have known me for a long time, they usually have MORE respect for me than they do for the average person, because they start to warm to the real me. (Part of the reason that I am not cool lies in the fact that I AM so transparent; I am just me.)
Worrygirl, I've found that it often helps to remind myself that one person's opinion of me does not reflect the opinion of everybody. It helps me so much to remember that rejection by one person is precisely as it sounds: rejection by ONE person. It also helps to remember that people's opinions change over time, that feeling comfortable with another person is just a matter of getting to know them. For some of us, that process just takes longer.
I'm glad you wrote this post. It's comforting to know that i'm not the only person in this world who feels `weird'.
Hope this helps a little. Best regards,
Alara
Posted by leeran on May 3, 2003, at 13:33:07
In reply to Re: Am I Dumb, Boring, Invisible, Fake or Weird? All? » WorryGirl, posted by Alara on May 3, 2003, at 6:03:27
"I am somehow a little too sentimental, a little too warm, and a little too articulate to fit in with the majority of my peers. I lack the `cool vibes'.. In a social group I often feel invisible."
Alara,
Another nail hit squarely on the head!
I've always felt the same way (still do) and I know my husband went through a period in his own profession of having the same feelings. I think he always felt kind of geeky (even though I think he's the coolest guy on the planet).
At one point he decided to take the mensa test and joined that group just so he would have a place to go now and then where he felt he fit in better!
I found this link the other night when I looked up "creativity" and "depression."
http://www.namiscc.org/Research/2002/Creativity.htm
These are the two paragraphs from which I gleaned the most:
"Strong and Ketter found that both creative students and those with bipolar disorders shared several personality traits. Such individuals were more open, and more neurotic and moody than the other study participants, according to findings presented at the American Psychiatric Association's annual meeting held in Philadelphia . . ."
"In an interview with Reuters Health, Strong explained that openness is a trait associated with a willingness to embrace new experiences, as well as being imaginative, curious and unconventional. These traits are often found in creative people, she added."
Since I just read this two nights ago I thought I would post it here to see if anyone else identifies (by the way, in doing so, I broke my newly formed OCD imposed rule of only posting every other day :-)
Thanks, Alara, for your post. How can it be that every single day I "hang around" here, I feel more and more like there's a real crowd of "us" ("us" meaning, people who feel so similar to one another and are so open about sharing all these thoughts). For the first time in my life (since finding this PSB board) I've felt like less of a loner!
Lee
This is the end of the thread.
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