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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 5 to 29 of 35. Go back in thread:
Posted by Bobby on October 19, 2002, at 16:24:19
In reply to I've given up., posted by Dinah on October 19, 2002, at 11:50:23
Dearest Dinah,
I can only hope that the luvox has a positive effect. I know what a bummer it can be to have to go back on undisireable meds. I hope that you intend to regroup and try again. Until then, please know that there are others who are pulling for you.Bobby
Posted by Ginjoint on October 19, 2002, at 20:14:34
In reply to I've given up., posted by Dinah on October 19, 2002, at 11:50:23
{{{{{Dinah}}}}}
Aww, who needs lousy old orgasms anyway?! (I DO! I DO!) Do they go away completely or does it just take a year and a half to get there? That's what tends to happen to me...at those times, it takes a lot of patience and LOTS of imagination to reach the goal. ;)
Sweetie, I wish there was a way I could lift your spirits. I'm in the same place you are -- go ahead and grab my hand, and we'll muddle through...don't set out to kill off any part of you, Dinah. That's a slippery slope. Just keep posting to PB Social (a friendly bar where everbody knows your name!) and you will ride out this wave. Honest.
Ginjoint
Posted by Dinah on October 20, 2002, at 8:46:02
In reply to Re: I've given up. » Dinah, posted by Ted on October 19, 2002, at 12:14:49
Unfortunately, or fortunately, the Luvox didn't sit on my stomach any better than food, so I'm going to have to put off taking it until I feel better. And by then I might not need to take it. I don't know about you but anger and sadness seem to live in my stomach and I just can't fit anything else in with them. (Perhaps an odd way of putting it.)
I don't think med holidays work on Luvox. I went four years without orgasms. And I didn't really care until I came off the Luvox.
Dinah
Posted by Dinah on October 20, 2002, at 8:48:05
In reply to Re: I've given up. » Dinah, posted by Lou Pilder on October 19, 2002, at 12:16:08
That is so kind of you, Lou. I think I just have to ride it out, I think. And I think I'll try to not make any meds decisions while I'm feeling so bad.
I appreciate your thoughtfulness, Lou.
Dinah
Posted by Dinah on October 20, 2002, at 8:52:01
In reply to Re: I've given up. » Dinah, posted by tina on October 19, 2002, at 12:24:52
It's the anger, Tina. From your previous posts, I think you'll understand. I'm just stuffed full of sadness and anger, which I always take out on myself. But Luvox probably wouldn't work quickly enough anyway, even if my poor stomach could take it. So I'll try to just ride out this wave, and hope my next mood will be good enough to make up for this one.
Posted by Dinah on October 20, 2002, at 8:57:40
In reply to Re: I've given up. » Dinah, posted by Bobby on October 19, 2002, at 16:24:19
Thanks Bobby. It definitely does help to know that.
Dinah
Posted by Dinah on October 20, 2002, at 9:01:56
In reply to Re: I've given up., posted by Ginjoint on October 19, 2002, at 20:14:34
> don't set out to kill off any part of you, Dinah. That's a slippery slope.
Oh Ginjoint. That made me cry, in a good way this time. It was just what I needed someone to tell me. It's what made me the most enraged to be thinking. That I needed to kill off part of me in order to fulfill my responsibilities. Why doesn't anyone ever say "F*** responsibilities. You're valuable too."?
Thank you so much,
Dinah
Posted by jyl on October 20, 2002, at 12:27:51
In reply to Re: I've given up. » Ginjoint, posted by Dinah on October 20, 2002, at 9:01:56
hi,
sorry to hear you are so down.
i am in a big hole today too...
can i come over and sit on your couch and dink tea?
jyl
Posted by Ginjoint on October 20, 2002, at 12:37:55
In reply to Re: I've given up. » Ginjoint, posted by Dinah on October 20, 2002, at 9:01:56
>That I needed to kill off part of me in order to >fulfill my responsibilities. Why doesn't anyone >ever say "F*** responsibilities. You're valuable >too."?
You know, I was going to question what you meant by "do what I need to do," and now I wish I had, 'cause I would've scored some bonus points with you! :) What I mean is, I was wondering what was so important that part of you actually had to die in order for it to be accomplished. Of course, kids and their care are very important, but sometimes, well....you put it best in the last line of the above post. ;)
{{{{Dinah}}}}
Your friend,
Ginjoint
Posted by m3 on October 20, 2002, at 13:48:05
In reply to Re: I've given up. » Dinah, posted by Ginjoint on October 20, 2002, at 12:37:55
I hope it's a short ride to the next mood state. I missed the chance to get bonus points too, but I am an admirer of Dinah, not Dinah's responsibilities. Please take care of yourself.If you decide to have tea with jyl, I could bring cookies. What kind would you like?
Posted by NikkiT2 on October 20, 2002, at 16:02:26
In reply to Re: I've given up. Not quite yet. » Ted, posted by Dinah on October 20, 2002, at 8:46:02
OK.. *takes deep breath*
Do you have a vibrator?? Mine has been my life saver with all this med related lack of orgasms... it takes a little more time than before still, but I do get there with this... and I use it with my husband and he loves it!!!
good luck
Nikki xx
Posted by Ted on October 20, 2002, at 17:00:55
In reply to *blushes* » Dinah, posted by NikkiT2 on October 20, 2002, at 16:02:26
Dinah & Nikki,
Most excellent advice. Dinah, you really should give it a try.
Ted
> OK.. *takes deep breath*
>
> Do you have a vibrator?? Mine has been my life saver with all this med related lack of orgasms... it takes a little more time than before still, but I do get there with this... and I use it with my husband and he loves it!!!
>
> good luck
>
> Nikki xx
Posted by Dinah on October 20, 2002, at 17:18:48
In reply to *blushes* » Dinah, posted by NikkiT2 on October 20, 2002, at 16:02:26
No need to blush, Nikki. :) I have tried it, but nothing really works with Luvox. Of course, I don't really have an incentive since it also makes me completely forget I'd like to have one. Nor am I particularly, ummm, patient.
But I'm off the Luvox idea for the moment. I'm feeling just enough better to want to wait a bit more before resuming a med that not only robbed me of my sexuality, but of too much emotion and intelligence as well. I just don't have enough emotion to be losing any.
I actually was able to eat a bit of something besides bread this evening. If all goes well, I'll grit my teeth, hold on, and ride this out.
Thanks, Nikki.
Dinah
Posted by Dinah on October 20, 2002, at 17:19:57
In reply to Re: I've given up. » Dinah, posted by Ginjoint on October 20, 2002, at 12:37:55
Posted by m3 on October 20, 2002, at 19:38:54
In reply to Re: Thanks guys. Tea and cookies sounds great. (nm), posted by Dinah on October 20, 2002, at 17:19:57
Just to clarify, if you're not in the mood to eat the cookies (which it sounds like you haven't been), you would be welcome to talk to them or step on them or decorate them to look like _The Scream_ . Or whatever.(Correspondingly, I can try to make them friendly or crunchy or expressionist-shaped. Or whatever)
Posted by Dinah on October 20, 2002, at 20:25:25
In reply to Re: Thanks guys. Tea and cookies sounds great. » Dinah, posted by m3 on October 20, 2002, at 19:38:54
Thanks for the laugh, and the thoughtfulness, m3. :)
I actually ate this evening. Something other than soft bread. So I think I could handle a few cookies.
Dinah
Posted by m3 on October 21, 2002, at 2:56:40
In reply to Re: Thanks guys. Tea and cookies sounds great. » m3, posted by Dinah on October 20, 2002, at 20:25:25
I'm glad to hear it. I guess I'll work on making the cookies tasty, then. Not my specialty, but I'll do my best.By the way, the idea for the "Scream" cookie (based on the famous Münch painting) was not mine, but actually made by an artistic friend of mine at a free-form cookie-decorating party. I think I have a picture somewhere.
Posted by ROO on October 21, 2002, at 9:55:04
In reply to Re: Thanks guys. Tea and cookies sounds great. » Dinah, posted by m3 on October 21, 2002, at 2:56:40
Hey Sweetie...
Where are you with all this now? Sometimes just
knowing the luvox is there helps....and not having
having to "act" on it...I have a friend who has somehow
been able to use paxil in a different way than most folks, and
she's done it for years and it works for her...sometimes she'll get
overwhelming panic attacks...she'll feel it coming on like a cold, she'll
take paxil for a couple of weeks...sometimes for up to a month...it'll
take care of the "episode" and then that'll be all she'll need, she'll stop.
She doesn't (for some odd reason) have problems with withdrawal or anything.
She uses it "as needed". Anyway. Don't know why I mentioned it...just I guess
that it doesn't have to be "all or nothing". Forever.
What about increasing depakote? Does that ever help?
Yeah...and I also wondered about your increased relief after Ginjoints response....maybe
you just needed more self acceptance of your own feelings....(once you got it from her you
felt immediate relief it seemed...so maybe you just need to do it from within...like it's okay
to have all of you....the angry Dinah....)....I don't follow PSB regulary...so I was just wondering what led up to you feeling like you had to go
back on Luvox...if the intensity of the moment has passed and you don't feel like talking about it anymore
that's fine, but I was just curious...I know for me my urges to be on SSRI's have been when I get really
scared to death of my strong feelings...and they feel "unacceptable"....So anyway...how are you...right now...today...this moment....?
MMMMmmmmmm cookies do sound good.....chocolate chip.....
Posted by Dinah on October 21, 2002, at 10:27:19
In reply to Re: Thanks guys. Tea and cookies sounds great., posted by ROO on October 21, 2002, at 9:55:04
Roo, you are immensely intuitive. Yes, I think there was some cycling in that things that ordinarily wouldn't bother me did. Which is the way it usually works for me. I can hear something every day, and most of those days it won't bother me. Then if my mood is right, it will send me spinning down. I think the big precipitator was an adrenaline jolt from a medical scare that turned out to be nothing. I think that screwed up my overly sensitive wiring. Then there were some things on top of that that did make me feel as if I could not continue on in a functional way unless I rid myself of my emotions, which makes sense since my emotions were extremely bad, agitated, anxious, etc. And the validation of that view by others just made me spiral worse.
So having Ginjoint say something different from what I had been hearing (and having Susan and Jane do the same - thanks again again guys) stopped the obsessive spiral.
Sad thing is though, that it will happen again. Too much stress, a big panic attack, something that triggers my OCD, something will start that spiral again and I will melt down again. And then something will happen that pulls me out of it, or sometimes it just goes away. There are always environmental triggers, or are there? Are the environmental triggers just part of the meltdown, since they are frequently distorted thoughts themselves. Would I have been able to process Ginjoint's and Susan's and Jane's comments until the cycle had run it's course?
I'm still not feeling 100% and that is also typical. In fact, I'm back to bread this morning. I'll still feel fragile for a while and likely to tip back in, and then after a while I'll feel more solidly better. Until the next time.
And damn it, it's been happening since my son was born, every few months. I even have some insight while it is happening. But I can't stop it. And I can't find out how to prevent it. It is soooo frustrating. I need to be better about mood charting, although it doesn't seem to happen as regular as clockwork.
There are psychological components to it that my therapist subscribes to, there are chemical components that my pdoc subscribes to. I have done everything I know how to do in an obsessive desire to find out why I do the things I do. Because for the most part, I'm a left brained rational person who finds this all rather embarassing. So I probably overanalyze it, because it is so upsetting to me. Yet still it happens.
You're also right about keeping the Luvox on hand just to make me feel better. The last prescription is from 1/01. It's proabably ineffective now. I was going to call today and get a real prescription. But... taking the Luvox was more a gesture of the despair of living this way. But the ironic truth was that the meltdowns happened with the Luvox too. :( Even while I was feeling almost nothing, they happened.
I hate it, I really do.
Any ideas?
Dinah
Posted by ROO on October 21, 2002, at 11:33:22
In reply to Re: Cycles and triggers » ROO, posted by Dinah on October 21, 2002, at 10:27:19
>>
> Any ideas?Well I have some insights...and I can most definitely relate...but
I'm not sure how helpful I can really be....whenever I feel most frustrated by
all this mental illness stuff, I pull out my spiritual zen hat...and I hope this
doesn't annoy you...it might me, if I were you...but it's about acceptance...of everything...
including our own powerlessness...and let's face it...at some point, we are powerless over
this shit. I think you can drive yourself absolutely nuts trying to analyze it to death, figure it
all out, mood charting yourself to death...at some point you've got to take a big deep breath and
let go of trying to figure it all out...at least for a couple of moments...and ironically letting go of
trying to figure it all out usually allows you to gain some sort of powerful insight...because TRYING too
hard makes things impossible (ever watch Lavern and Shirely where Lavern is trying to unlock the door
and she can't she's trying to force the key in the lock and she's going crazy jiggling it and shaking it
to death and yelling and screaming and it won't open and Shirley cooly walks up and calmly and gently
moves the key and the door opens and she says 'don't force' or something like that)....On the medical side...I asked you this earlier, are you sure when you are cycling like this, that you don't
need to increase your mood stabilizer? Because that helps me when I start getting that agitated feeling...I just
increase the mood stabilizer and that takes care of it....You seem very familiar with these cycles...how long do they usually last?
> I hate it, I really do.
See...I also think this is part of the problem...and it brings up another zen maxim...which
is there's really nothing wrong with feeling unhappy...it's when you HATE feeling unhappy
that it really becomes hell on earth. If you could work on, while youre having these cycles, on a feeling
of acceptance..."Okay...I'm cycling...I'm feeling shitty right now...I don't like it...but it's happening", and work
on dropping the intense hatred, shame and embarrassement, you might decrease your discomfort level by
about 50%....I always feel like a big hypocrite giving advice. I know how much
it sucks. I feel for you and I'm with you, babe.
Posted by Dinah on October 21, 2002, at 12:06:54
In reply to Re: Cycles and triggers--Dinah, posted by ROO on October 21, 2002, at 11:33:22
It doesn't annoy me Roo. And I know you're right. But I can only be this objective because I'm partway out of it. While I'm in it I'm 99% sure that regardless of my cycles, that my distorted thoughts are correct, everything is horrible especially me, and I have every reason to be so upset. There is a teeny part of me that says, ok this has happened before, you'll lose five pounds and be okay. But that part gets shouted down pretty quickly. :)
But I could ease up on the between episode analyzing I guess. To some extent I'm getting better at just accepting that that's the way I'm going to be. Now I have to work on getting those around me to accept that, because naturally I'm not all that easy to live with.
But... there's still a part of me that believes that if I could just identify the triggers everything would be okay.
And now we're back to square one.
Increasing the depakote never really occurs to me, because I'm sleeping if anything too much and I don't really feel hypomanic. Does it work for this part of the cycle too? Klonopin doesn't work all that well for it, although I guess it keeps me alive by curbing the worst of the excesses. Because I get incredibly self destructive. If it is indeed part of the cyclothymia.
And now we're back to square one yet again. Obviously I have not stopped the obsessive loops.
Thanks Roo,
Dinah
Posted by Dinah on October 21, 2002, at 12:13:03
In reply to Re: Cycles and triggers » ROO, posted by Dinah on October 21, 2002, at 12:06:54
That reminds me of the results of my personality testing. I went to speak to the psychologist about her report and she was astonished with my questions and the lengths I was going to understand the tests, etc. And she mentioned something about my need to be ruminative and obsessive, in this really concerned voice.
I was telling my therapist, and we turned to each other and said (me plaintively, him with amusement) "But that's what I (you) DO!" Then we both laughed, because she shouldn't have been so surprised after all that personality testing. :)
Obsessive rumination is as much a part of me as my eye color. :)
Posted by ROO on October 21, 2002, at 12:56:55
In reply to Re: By the way Roo, posted by Dinah on October 21, 2002, at 12:13:03
Let me pull a Dr. Phil on you Dinah and ask
"...And how's that workin' for ya, Dinah...?"
Love ya just the way you are...obsessive, ruminating and all.Roo
Posted by Dinah on October 21, 2002, at 13:00:40
In reply to Re: By the way Roo, posted by ROO on October 21, 2002, at 12:56:55
Posted by ROO on October 21, 2002, at 14:12:48
In reply to Re: By the way Roo, posted by ROO on October 21, 2002, at 12:56:55
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