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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Roo on May 13, 2002, at 10:19:10
I'm sorry y'all I just can't help myself...I need to
talk about some of this stuff....(I just accidentally posted it on the psychobabble
med board and I am mortified!!!)
Well me and my boyfriend finally got it totally worked
out...we had a
very close talk friday night, and after that it
felt like the air was finally completely cleared
and we felt really close. One
of the things he told me was that he felt like
I was "performing" sexually--trying too hard to
be the world's greatest lover and that sex
was starting to feel like a production for him,
and not "real"...he said it all in a very kind
way. I told him I think that's true....that I do
tend to sexually perform and try to be a really
smooth great lover. He said I'm very good at
it, but that he felt like I was playing a role
and not just being who I am as a person.
It's so true. I've always known this about
myself, but don't really know what to do about
it. I told him I wanted sex to feel very
intimate and personal and loving, but that I
didn't know how to express myself in bed, I
don't really know how to be myself. I guess
it's symptomatic of the whole relationship and
all my romantic relationships...I've never really
felt like I could be myself...I always felt like I
was playing a role that I wasn't quite
comfortable in but didn't know how to change.
In some ways, I think I don't really KNOW
who I am, and that's part of the problem.
And I feel as a romantic partner there are
certain things I SHOULD be--nice, upbeat,
(exhausting for a depressive!)a great sex
partner. I told him I thought my ego was
really wrapped up in sex...that a lot of times
in a relationship, sex was all I felt I had to
offer since I was depressed so much, kind of
like "Well everything else about me might
suck, but I'm going to make the sex really
good". He's presenting a really good
challenge for me, a real stretch...it feels
vulnerable to think of being myself, because I
feel so unsure of myself, I'm much more
comfortable playing the role of femme fatale
and that's what I've always done....but he's
right...it's not real, it's not honest, and it's not
the real me. He doesn't want us to get
trapped in roles. I really respect that. But
boy, it kind of scares the shit out of me
too...it's intimidating. I'm not really sure what
to do or how to start. It's definitely more of
an emotional issue for me, but it's also
physical ( told him this as well)--the AD's I'm
on give me a sort of performance anxiety b/c
sometimes my body won't respond...I worry
that I won't be able to have an orgasm, or
that i'll feel numb, and that makes me feel
like an inferior lover, so sometimes I
overcompensate...It felt like a real breakthrough to talk about
it...and I like it that a lot of times he
encourages me to stretch my boundaries, to
grow.I know this performance anxiety stuff is supposed to be
a male thing, but I sure have it too. Has anyone ever dealt
with this? Any suggestions on how I can discover ways to just
be myself sexually, or is this just something me and my boyfriend
will have to discover together? I know it sounds crazy, but I'm
actually scared! Can anyone relate to these sorts of struggles?
Posted by Krazy Kat on May 13, 2002, at 12:28:37
In reply to Hope this isn't inappropriate--(wince)more on sex!, posted by Roo on May 13, 2002, at 10:19:10
That's exactly how I would have titled this thread. :)
I'm going through something somewhat similar right now. I'm rather "stabilized" compared to my many years of manic-depression, and I don't know how to handle sex and intimacy. I used to be very sexual when manic, and then withdraw when depressed. I, too, have used sex to "keep a relationship together" so to speak, or out of guilt because I'm such a difficult person to live with.
Top that, with the fact that I seem to have almost no sex drive right now, and it's tough. (I'm not an AD, either).
I am trying to learn how to have a healthy sex life with my husband. But even though I can talk about almost anything, that subject still makes me squirm.
One reason I've avoided therapy re: this, is each time I've tried, about four times I guess, I was told I was sexually abused. But I wasn't.
But I do seem to be frightened of sex, so there's something going on. Puritanical upbringing? Guilt for... what? I wonder...
Anyway, I don't have any solutions right now, just commiseration. I hope someone on this board does.
- kk
Posted by NancyLee on May 13, 2002, at 13:03:28
In reply to Re: Hope this isn't inappropriate--(wince)more on sex! » Roo, posted by Krazy Kat on May 13, 2002, at 12:28:37
I was exactly the same way about sex when manic then not want any thing to do with sex when depressed. I also went to therapist who told me I was abused as a child and I also was not. Now on my meds there is no more sex drive. I used to miss it but my husband became disabled in a car accident and has a head injury so between the two of us it is realy pretty bad. I think when our last child leaves home we will try harder to work on our relationship.
Posted by Krazy Kat on May 13, 2002, at 13:29:27
In reply to Re: Hope this isn't inappropriate--(wince)more on sex! » Krazy Kat, posted by NancyLee on May 13, 2002, at 13:03:28
Welcome NancyLee. It's nice to see a new name.
Thanks for your comments. It helps a lot to reaad others' experiences.
It's a volatile, and important, subject.
I'm very sorry about your husband's injuries.
- kk
Posted by Manda on May 13, 2002, at 13:29:57
In reply to Re: Hope this isn't inappropriate--(wince)more on sex! » Krazy Kat, posted by NancyLee on May 13, 2002, at 13:03:28
Roo,
Wow. I completely understand. Although you definitely have more experience than I do... ;) I've been depressed since I was in middle school and was never interested in sex really. As a result, I'm now 21 and have very, very little experience. Consequently, any kind of physical intimacy is terrifying to me. (Of course, I also have major problems with performance anxiety due to GAD as well. I'm just a stressed out person in general. :) However, I think my lack of experience certainly makes it harder.) Do you think that you might be in a similar position?Ok, well, this is kind of embarrassing... My boyfriend and I have been together since September. I think he has even worse performance anxiety than I do (probably b/c he's also been depressed and has zero experience with physical intimacy). Both of us get so freaked out with even the suggestion of anything physical. We're attracted to each other, but performance anxiety has us paralyzed. Consequently, although we are very physically affectionate (as in cuddling, etc.), we still haven't even kissed. It's really sad. I think a lot of it, though, has to do with the fact that I've been a complete nutcase for the last six months or so, and he doesn't want to push me, etc. When I'm depressed, I don't want anything to do with any kind of physical intimacy, and I think he knows that. Anyway, this is a very random, very long response... Hope that the beginning, at least, was a little helpful (or knowing that another couple is even more messed up than you ;) ).
-Manda
P.S. Don't worry about posting about sex! It's definitely one of the problems that comes with depression, so it's certainly something that a lot of us can comment on. Besides, it's not as embarrassing b/c we don't actually know each other "in real life." :)
Posted by Krazy Kat on May 13, 2002, at 13:34:04
In reply to Hope this isn't inappropriate--(wince)more on sex!, posted by Roo on May 13, 2002, at 10:19:10
I've just started perusing this site, but I like most of what I've seen:
It does separate men and women a lot, or perhaps "stereotype" them, i.e. men need sex to secure intimacy, women need intimacy for secure sex, but after ten years of marriage I would say the stereotypes are often true. jmho.
Would love some feedback.
Has anyone ever seen "Adam's Rib", an old Hepburn/Tracey film? Absolutely marvelous take on female/male relationships and Extremely up-to-date for its time. But then, those two always were.
- kk
Posted by Krazy Kat on May 13, 2002, at 13:37:51
In reply to Re: Hope this isn't inappropriate--(wince)more on sex!, posted by Manda on May 13, 2002, at 13:29:57
Yeah, finding physical intimacy frightening - good phrase.
I'm 31, not sure about Roo's age.
Have you gone to therapy about this? Just curious. I Really don't want to, but think I need to.
For some reason, even though it should be an open subject on such a board, I've seen sex threads posted before and kind of "stepped around". So this is a good one thus far.
Take care.
- kk
Posted by Roo on May 13, 2002, at 15:44:52
In reply to Re: Hope this isn't inappropriate--(wince)more on sex!, posted by Manda on May 13, 2002, at 13:29:57
However, I think my
lack of experience certainly makes it harder.)
Do you think that you might be in a similar
position?Well, not exactly. I'm 33 and have been in 4 different
long term relationships, and have the experience. I think
my problem is bringing more of my "real" self to
sex, and not just some femme fatale Hollywood type
idea of how I think I SHOULD be. I'm also unsure of how
to feel or be emotionally connected and intimate during
sex because I'm so busy trying to be the perfect lover.
I'm kind of thinking "Who am I?" and Who am I sexually,
how can I make sex feel intimate and personal and emotional?>
> Ok, well, this is kind of embarrassing...Not at all...I am glad you are sharing your honest experience...
it helps...
My boyfriend and I have been together since
September. I think he has even worse
performance anxiety than I do (probably b/c he's
also been depressed and has zero experience
with physical intimacy).In one ways, BOTH of you being so nervous could bring
more intensity to the anxiety...but in another way, if
you develop trust with each other, it could be a really
valuable way to explore the demons together and help heal...I don't know. I kind of wish I hadn't gotten involved
with sex so early on. I wasn't emotionally ready for it. Maybe
neither one of you is really ready yet, and maybe that's
okay...there's no rush, it takes time to build trust...especially
those of us who struggle with depression.Both of us get so
freaked out with even the suggestion
of anything physical. We're attracted to
each other, but performance anxiety has us
paralyzed.Have y'all talked about this? The fact that you're
both so scared? I wonder if just discussing that might
open some doors...
Also, do you take meds for your depression. In some
ways meds deadened me sexually (sensation wise), but
I had more confidence in myself (and lovability) once
the depression was lifted by the meds. I don't think
I would be capable of a romantic relationship without
my meds. I just get too freaked, and feel too shitty
about myself.Consequently, although we are very
physically affectionate (as in cuddling, etc.),
we still haven't even kissed. It's really sad.It's not really sad...I see a real sweetness in that you
both obviously care about each other a lot and are in it
for a lot more than sex. You seem very considerate of
each other. I'm guilty of jumping into the sack way
too soon....but in a way it's crazy....being physically
intimate with someone you barely know. In some ways, I
think that's what may be happening with my boyfriend and
I....our bodies aren't cooperating b/c our emotions aren't
in synch. We just don't really know each other that well
yet. He's a pretty complex person too, and can't just drill
away at the drop of a hat.I think a lot of it, though, has to do with the
fact that I've been a complete nutcase for the
last six months or so, and he doesn't want to push
me, etc.
You know, like I said, maybe you really aren't in the
right head/heart space for sex right now and THAT's
OKAY...maybe it's just time to take care of yourself..let
yourself heal from your depression, and you and your
boyfriend can just keep being great friends, getting to
know each other, and being really affectionate and caring.
I know it's not the most popular thing to do at your age,
and I hope I'm not sounding like a preachy old lady. I
need to follow my own advice in fact! I just wish when I
was your age, I wasn't in such a hurry to go out and prove
what a sexual dynamo I was.(or knowing that another couple is
even more messed up than you ;) ).You aint messed up, girlfriend....we're all just human...
doing the best we can....I hope things get better for you,
and just focus on what makes you happy, take care of yourself.> P.S. Don't worry about posting about sex!
It's definitely one of the problems that
comes with depression, so it's certainly
something that a lot of us can comment on.
Besides, it's not as embarrassing b/c we
don't actually know each other "in real life." :)Thanks!! I hope more people respond...I think it's
a fascinating thread...sexuality can be so damn
complex! Especially with all those hollywood media
ideals thrown into the equation!
Posted by NancyLee on May 13, 2002, at 21:21:39
In reply to Re: Hope this isn't inappropriate--(wince)more on sex! » NancyLee, posted by Krazy Kat on May 13, 2002, at 13:29:27
Thanks for the welcome! Dont feel sorry for anythng I write I am just sharing in case I might say something (maybe by accident?) that can help someone or somebody can suggest somethings to me.
Posted by Krazy Kat on May 14, 2002, at 9:52:38
In reply to Re: Hope this isn't inappropriate--(wince)more on sex!, posted by NancyLee on May 13, 2002, at 21:21:39
Roo:
I know that loss of libido, or low libido, isn't what you originally posted about, but it may fit into here. It does for me.
So I'm trying the ivillage/sexual health/loss of libido board. And it would not be difficult to figure out who I am there. ;)
The posts seem to touch on both emotional and medical aspects of sex for women.
If any of you go there, check out the repsonses to this woman's post:
http://boards.ivillagehealth.com/messages/get/bhlibido52/23.html
This is why men and women have so much trouble!!
Roo, your guy sounds pretty good, i must say. :)
- kk
Posted by Manda on May 14, 2002, at 10:38:05
In reply to Hang on toThat guy, Manda... ;), posted by Krazy Kat on May 13, 2002, at 13:37:51
No, I haven't talked about this in therapy. Honestly, it's pretty far down on my list of problems. :)
-Manda
Posted by Krazy Kat on May 14, 2002, at 10:53:58
In reply to Re: Hang on toThat guy, Manda... ;) » Krazy Kat, posted by Manda on May 14, 2002, at 10:38:05
Well, especially since you seem to be in a supportive reltionship right now, I wouldn't think there's a reason to prioritize it, though i have found that all of one's problems are related somehow.
take care.
- kk
Posted by Manda on May 14, 2002, at 10:58:55
In reply to Re: Hope this isn't inappropriate--Manda, posted by Roo on May 13, 2002, at 15:44:52
<<However, I think my lack of experience certainly makes it harder.) Do you think that you might be in a similar position?
Well, not exactly. I'm 33 and have been in 4 different long term relationships, and have the experience.>>
Sorry I didn't make it clear- what I meant to say was do you think that perhaps you are so caught up in trying to be the perfect lover because you are experiencing a lack of libido (or b/c you have in the past)? Anyway, thought I'd clear that up. I wasn't implying that you were inexperienced, just that you might be focusing on being a "femme fatale" b/c you were compensating for not being as into it as he was. Just a thought.<Have y'all talked about this? The fact that you're both so scared?>
No, we haven't talked about it at all. I think we're both uncomfortable with even approaching the subject. I know that I don't want to push him or make him feel uncomfortable, and I bet he's the same way. Consequently, we avoid the subject. This is definitely going to have to change, obviously. I keep trying to get myself to talk to him about it, but I just keep chickening out.<Also, do you take meds for your depression?>
Well, yes and no. I'm on meds, but not stabilized yet. I just started Effexor, and it's working well now, but I'll have to wait and see if it keeps working. I have a history of ad's quitting after a month or two. My pdoc is thinking I may be bipolar II, so it may take a long time before I get stabilized on meds.<It's not really sad... I see a real sweetness in that you both obviously care about each other a lot and are in it for a lot more than sex. You seem very considerate of each other.>
Yeah, we really do have a wonderful relationship. We're completely in love with each other, and each of us would do absolutely anything for the other. The physical side of the relationship is the only thinking lacking in any way, so I think we're really, really lucky. I don't really have any complaints about him. I don't really care so much about the physical intimacy- it's more that everyone else seems to think that this is evidence of a much bigger problem in our relationship. However, I honestly don't think it is. I think we're just different in our needs, wants, and priorities than most couples our age. I just don't want our relationship to fall apart because of this (and I don't think it will), and, at some point, I would really like to move beyond this and express our love for each other in different ways. However, like I said, it's really not so much of a problem as everyone else seems to think. :) I guess I should just stop listening to my friends and listen to my heart. Anyway, good luck to you. Take care!
Pax,
Manda
Posted by Roo on May 14, 2002, at 12:45:53
In reply to Re: Hope this isn't inappropriate--Manda » Roo, posted by Manda on May 14, 2002, at 10:58:55
> Sorry I didn't make it clear- what I meant to
say was do you think that perhaps you are so
caught up in trying to be the perfect lover
because you are experiencing a lack of libido (or
b/c you have in the past)? Anyway, thought I'd
clear that up. I wasn't implying that you were
inexperienced, just that you might be focusing
on being a "femme fatale" b/c you were compensating
for not being as into it as he was. Just a thought.Yes, I think you're right--that's definitely part of it...
I also feel like "well if i'm not going to experience any
pleasure, so he might as well" and totally focus on his
pleasure, b/c my sensation is so dull. Talk about sad. It
really makes me sad. I used to genuinely love sex. I think
I am overcompensating for the fact that I really don't feel
responsive and it makes me feel inadequate as a lover, and I'm
afraid he'll get bored and leave if I'm not a knockout in the
sack...
>>
> Yeah, we really do have a wonderful relationship
. We're completely in love with each other,
and each of us would do absolutely anything for
the other. The physical side of the relationship
is the only thinking lacking in any way,
so I think we're really, really lucky.
I don't really have any complaints about him.
I don't really care so much about the physical
intimacy- it's more that everyone else seems to
think that this is evidence of a much bigger
problem in our relationship. However, I honestly
don't think it is. I think we're just different
in our needs, wants, and priorities than most
couples our age. I just don't want our
relationship to fall apart because of this
(and I don't think it will), and, at some point,
I would really like to move beyond this and
express our love for each other in different ways.
However, like I said, it's really not so much
of a problem as everyone else seems to think. :)
I guess I should just stop listening to my
friends and listen to my heart. Anyway, good luck to
you. Take care!Thanks Manda. Sounds like you've got a great boyfriend
and a great relationship. You have all the ingredients
for being able to work things through on this issue...especially
since the physical attraction is there, along with the genuine caring.
> Pax,
> Manda
Posted by Roo on May 14, 2002, at 13:56:17
In reply to I'm experimenting with a low libido board..., posted by Krazy Kat on May 14, 2002, at 9:52:38
Great Site K.K.--I really enjoyed it! Keep me posted
how things are working out with you...
Posted by Krazy Kat on May 14, 2002, at 14:14:00
In reply to Re: Hope this isn't inappropriate--Manda, posted by Roo on May 14, 2002, at 12:45:53
"I also feel like "well if i'm not going to experience any
> pleasure, so he might as well" and totally focus on his
> pleasure, b/c my sensation is so dull.""I think I am overcompensating for the fact that I really don't feel
> responsive and it makes me feel inadequate as a lover, and I'm
> afraid he'll get bored and leave if I'm not a knockout in the
> sack..."That rings so true for me as well.
- kk
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