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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Partlycloudy on June 30, 2014, at 8:56:50
Elsewhere I have related that I had a poor experience at a non-traditional, "holistic" rehab facility to help me with my relapse into alcoholism.
In short, I had already detoxed myself at home, and spent almost a month in hysterics. I cried almost constantly, had suicidal ideations, and was threatened not only with involuntary hospitalisation, but was told twice that I was probably in the wrong facility. But carry on.
I became the pariah of my peers. When I would ask to join a table to eat with them, they'd agree. Then one by one, they'd leave, until I was alone. Every meal. The only person who would have me was a blind 86 year old man, or the facility staff. I would bolt down my food and scatter. I felt like Typhoid Mary, and mentioned it several times to my counselor. Also to the nursing staff. "You're imagining it." I was told. I kept silent. What do say to that, when you're mentally ill and under so much pressure?
I did feel that I was being traumatized by the experience, but also that maybe that was the point of being there. It was really frightening. When I left halfway through, I saw my therapist when I got home, and we spent that session going over what had happened. She said she thought I might need to work on my PTSD some more as a result. "But I feel OK," I replied. It was true.
A couple weeks on, and I am not OK. Can't sleep, eating is all disrupted, and my motivation has come to a full stop. I forced myself to go to my women's support group last night. We are all empaths to one degree or another. I told them an abbreviated version of my experience. Some of the women I had never met before.
"You've been traumatized." was what one woman said. Also that the other patients felt threatened by my openness and willingness to learn and get well. That I was taking on their misery and pain, and trying to protect myself with the crying, trying to end the experience and often hiding in my room. (I had some success with noise cancelling headphones.)
So I will talk to my therapist this week about it. But I feel like dog poop that I have put both shoes into. And I wear them every day.
PC
Posted by Phillipa on June 30, 2014, at 9:58:24
In reply to (Big breath) OK...trauma stuff. Not triggering., posted by Partlycloudy on June 30, 2014, at 8:56:50
Do you have any idea why they didn't seem to want you to join them? Phillipa
Posted by Partlycloudy on June 30, 2014, at 10:51:10
In reply to Re: (Big breath) OK...trauma stuff. Not triggering. » Partlycloudy, posted by Phillipa on June 30, 2014, at 9:58:24
No. I didn't want to presume it was to hurt my feelings. Maybe they could tell I was already "with the program" in that I had read most of the course material. And I wasn't physically suffering in the they were. No withdrawals, and my personal story was not as tragic as any of theirs?
Someone at the meeting suggested they sensed I was healthier, and that constituted a threat.
pc
Posted by Partlycloudy on June 30, 2014, at 12:10:03
In reply to Re: (Big breath) OK...trauma stuff. Not triggering. » Phillipa, posted by Partlycloudy on June 30, 2014, at 10:51:10
> No. I didn't want to presume it was to hurt my feelings. Maybe they could tell I was already "with the program" in that I had read most of the course material. And I wasn't physically suffering in the they were. No withdrawals, and my personal story was not as tragic as any of theirs?
>
> Someone at the meeting suggested they sensed I was healthier, and that constituted a threat.
>
> pcActually, someone said more than that. They said that the really ill patients had unhappy souls and spirits, and that I was unconsciously picking up on that; and that they were not comfortable being around me because I was protecting myself. I did a lot of meditation in room, and tried to calm myself down from what the staff told me I was imagining.
OK, I am freaked out.
Posted by Poet on June 30, 2014, at 15:28:51
In reply to (Big breath) OK...trauma stuff. Not triggering., posted by Partlycloudy on June 30, 2014, at 8:56:50
Hi PC,
I don't think you were imagining it. That's a rotten thing to be told by a staff member- one extra hard cyber slap coming his/her way.
Maybe they did sense you were further ahead in your progress and that made them uncomfortable. It's like they all regressed to junior high age- "oh, oh, look who wants to sit at the cool kids table." Cyber slaps to them, too. What you experienced is traumatic, I would have felt like I was in eighth grade again when my allegedly bestfriends stopped speaking to me.
Talk to your therapist and take an invisible hose and flush off that dog poop. Keep breathing and posting.
Poet
Posted by Partlycloudy on June 30, 2014, at 15:59:23
In reply to Re: (Big breath) OK...trauma stuff. Not triggering. » Partlycloudy, posted by Poet on June 30, 2014, at 15:28:51
Developmentally, that's where almost all of them were when they started using. My understanding is that heavy drug use stunts emotional growth at the point where heavy use started.
However, that wasn't the philosophy of the place I was. Thanks for the hose and the use of the slaps!
Posted by alexandra_k on July 1, 2014, at 19:52:12
In reply to (Big breath) OK...trauma stuff. Not triggering., posted by Partlycloudy on June 30, 2014, at 8:56:50
> Then one by one, they'd leave, until I was alone. Every meal.
Because they had done eating?
When people are detoxing... Often... Food is... Hard to stomach. Depends a bit what people are detoxing from... But when one is sick... One is more... Focused in one oneself than focused in on... Making friends.
When I'm sick... I have heightened sensitivity... These people... Might well have simply needed silence and to be alone.
Not to say that there is anything wrong with you or anything... Just that you needed something different, yeah. I am saying this because... It probably wasn't personal. It wasn't that they didn't like you. Just that they needed something different, was all.
Posted by Partlycloudy on July 1, 2014, at 20:24:14
In reply to Re: (Big breath) OK...trauma stuff. Not triggering., posted by alexandra_k on July 1, 2014, at 19:52:12
> > Then one by one, they'd leave, until I was alone. Every meal.
>
> Because they had done eating?
>
> When people are detoxing... Often... Food is... Hard to stomach. Depends a bit what people are detoxing from... But when one is sick... One is more... Focused in one oneself than focused in on... Making friends.
>
> When I'm sick... I have heightened sensitivity... These people... Might well have simply needed silence and to be alone.
>
> Not to say that there is anything wrong with you or anything... Just that you needed something different, yeah. I am saying this because... It probably wasn't personal. It wasn't that they didn't like you. Just that they needed something different, was all.No, Alexandra. They would take their plates of food, and move elsewhere to eat. The male patients who had detoxed from heroin were all underweight and ate massive quantities of high caloric food, often going back for seconds and thirds.
As to silence and being alone, the atmosphere in the place was wide screen TVs in many places, all at full volume, and no place to be alone or in silence unless you retreated to your tiny, claustrophobic room. That's what my peers did. They watched TV, violent movies, shows about drug busts, and stayed as far away from me as they could. Being twice their average age didn't help, nor did their glorifying tales of how many times they had flatlined, and what they would do "when they got out."
I feel that my experiences are being invalidated because my perceptions are being questioned.
Not only do I know what I experienced, the experiences were seen and acknowledged by the facility staff, who ate in the same room.I am confused as to your line of questioning. Have you been in a recovery facility for addiction? Do you think I experienced paranoia?
This is distressing.
Posted by baseball55 on July 1, 2014, at 20:50:41
In reply to Re: (Big breath) OK...trauma stuff. Not triggering. » alexandra_k, posted by Partlycloudy on July 1, 2014, at 20:24:14
Sounds like a thoroughly awful place, pc. You're lucky that at least, you detoxed and are now sober. So much for non-traditional rehabs. Everything you've said about it sounds like a disaster. But you survived. Will survive. Just the thought of all the money though...
Posted by Phillipa on July 1, 2014, at 21:05:50
In reply to Re: (Big breath) OK...trauma stuff. Not triggering. » alexandra_k, posted by Partlycloudy on July 1, 2014, at 20:24:14
Nope you are correct as was a charge RN in one. And when an older person out of 20's for example came in was the same. Too young and no motivation to get and stay clean. Many had been placed there to satisfy parents. No no way are you paranoid. We would take the patients downstairs for dinner and they ate a lot of food. And so many had candy bars stuff upstairs to eat later. It was like they had never eatten before. I would also isolate. You had nothing in common with them other than some sort of addiction. Phillipa
Posted by alexandra_k on July 1, 2014, at 21:25:04
In reply to Re: (Big breath) OK...trauma stuff. Not triggering. » alexandra_k, posted by Partlycloudy on July 1, 2014, at 20:24:14
> > > Then one by one, they'd leave, until I was alone. Every meal.
> >
> > Because they had done eating?
> >
> > When people are detoxing... Often... Food is... Hard to stomach. Depends a bit what people are detoxing from... But when one is sick... One is more... Focused in one oneself than focused in on... Making friends.
> >
> > When I'm sick... I have heightened sensitivity... These people... Might well have simply needed silence and to be alone.
> >
> > Not to say that there is anything wrong with you or anything... Just that you needed something different, yeah. I am saying this because... It probably wasn't personal. It wasn't that they didn't like you. Just that they needed something different, was all.
>
> No, Alexandra. They would take their plates of food, and move elsewhere to eat. The male patients who had detoxed from heroin were all underweight and ate massive quantities of high caloric food, often going back for seconds and thirds.
>
> As to silence and being alone, the atmosphere in the place was wide screen TVs in many places, all at full volume, and no place to be alone or in silence unless you retreated to your tiny, claustrophobic room. That's what my peers did. They watched TV, violent movies, shows about drug busts, and stayed as far away from me as they could. Being twice their average age didn't help, nor did their glorifying tales of how many times they had flatlined, and what they would do "when they got out."
>
> I feel that my experiences are being invalidated because my perceptions are being questioned.
> Not only do I know what I experienced, the experiences were seen and acknowledged by the facility staff, who ate in the same room.what part of your experience is being invalidated?
oh, i'm sorry, i didn't mean to suggest that they were retreating from you because of their own issues i meant to... uh, agree with your perception that they couldn't stand your company in particular.
?
> I am confused as to your line of questioning. Have you been in a recovery facility for addiction? Do you think I experienced paranoia?i haven't been in a $30,000 yoga retreat facility, no. just public facilities for detox and then rehab. look... whatever... i'm glad that other people can make the right noises for you...
> This is distressing.
Posted by Partlycloudy on July 1, 2014, at 22:16:34
In reply to Re: (Big breath) OK...trauma stuff. Not triggering., posted by alexandra_k on July 1, 2014, at 21:25:04
They aren't making noises.
Why are you disparaging my experiences with your remarks?
Do you know the average price of residential addiction recovery in the US? There are hardly any that take insurance (the wait is months long for those, and the care substandard). This is a growing, scam-ridden market to which many fall prey.You don't need to reply to this post, since it feels like picking at a scab so the wound won't heal.
Posted by Beckett on July 2, 2014, at 23:52:38
In reply to Re: (Big breath) OK...trauma stuff. Not triggering. » Poet, posted by Partlycloudy on June 30, 2014, at 15:59:23
> heavy drug use stunts emotional growth at the point where heavy use started.
I'm not sure about this. I can see how this could be both a fruitful and negative lens when considering the psychic landscape of a drug user/person in recovery. In recovery I was often invalidated and infantilized. This might not be what you are addressing. I was not a heavy drug user.
Posted by Partlycloudy on July 3, 2014, at 7:14:00
In reply to Re: (Big breath) OK...trauma stuff. Not triggering., posted by Beckett on July 2, 2014, at 23:52:38
> > heavy drug use stunts emotional growth at the point where heavy use started.
>
> I'm not sure about this. I can see how this could be both a fruitful and negative lens when considering the psychic landscape of a drug user/person in recovery. In recovery I was often invalidated and infantilized. This might not be what you are addressing. I was not a heavy drug user.I agree. I am talking about the type of heavy use where the kids pretty much trade in going to school for trading in drugs. There is often a split in emotional connection at home, and the drug(s) of choice become the primary focus of life.
My understanding is that such heavy use before the ages of roughly 21 to 25 can greatly impact the development of the higher functions of the brain, like decision making. Knowing right from wrong.Most of the other clients at facility were under the age of 22, had gone through rehab multiple times (and considered it a joke and a vacation from jail). And, as I mentioned, some of then liked to regal the others with their tales of overdosing and how many drugs they would do at once. And would do again when they left.
I would suggest walking a mile in my shoes, but they might not fit.
PC
Posted by Beckett on July 3, 2014, at 8:19:06
In reply to Re: (Big breath) OK...trauma stuff. Not triggering. » Beckett, posted by Partlycloudy on July 3, 2014, at 7:14:00
Likely not. I often wear crcc;. Best on your journey.
This is the end of the thread.
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