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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by TherapyGirl on February 20, 2009, at 15:51:08
In reply to Re: Worse than ever » TherapyGirl, posted by lucie lu on February 20, 2009, at 14:38:45
I just got home from my trip. I appreciate each and every response. I always know that if there is nowhere else in my life where people get it, there is always Babble.
I'll respond individually (or maybe in a group update) tonight and/or tomorrow. I do want to clarify that my T laughed when I told her the quote not because any of this is funny to her, but because the quote itself is so very ridiculous.
The one thing I was able to say to my friend today is, "You know your quotable quote from last night about mental illness being no excuse for bad behavior is utter drivel and, frankly, I'm shocked beyond belief to hear it come out of the mouth of someone who has spent decades working with people with disabilities. What you are seeing today in terms of my ability to function is the result of the month I've had to work on coping skills and new ways of dealing with this with my T. What happened to me on the trip last month was akin to someone going from a mild cognitive impairment to a severe one in a matter of hours. NO ONE would have been prepared for that."
She then told me that the quote was not directed at me. She won't own up to any part of this. It is all very clear to me now. Although I still miss her like crazy.
More later. Thanks to all of you.
Posted by TherapyGirl on February 20, 2009, at 19:49:15
In reply to Re: Worse than ever, posted by Dinah on February 20, 2009, at 7:49:04
Not sanguine, not patient, too depressed.
Why is this so hard?
Posted by TherapyGirl on February 20, 2009, at 19:50:18
In reply to Re: Worse than ever » TherapyGirl, posted by SLS on February 20, 2009, at 7:58:16
Not preachy, Scott. I really have no idea how you do this. It is amazing to me. I don't think I have it in me. I'll keep reading your post, though.
Posted by TherapyGirl on February 20, 2009, at 19:51:51
In reply to Re: Worse than ever » TherapyGirl, posted by antigua3 on February 20, 2009, at 9:06:18
Probably nail on the head, Antigua. But after 24 years of therapy, shouldn't I be picking better now? I'm running out of time to fix this. And I just can't take it anymore.
Posted by TherapyGirl on February 20, 2009, at 19:56:59
In reply to Re: Worse than ever, posted by backseatdriver on February 20, 2009, at 9:20:50
I think you're right, BSD. Friend is definitely ambivalent (and feels pressured and like there are unfair expectations on her) and I'm all bonded and attached because it took me so long to get to the place where I COULD be bonded and attached. Unbelievably long. Unbelievably hard work. And for what???????
It's interesting how you interpreted that remark. When I called her on it today, she said it wasn't directed at me, she was just telling me what someone said to her one time. Funny, though -- she was telling me that when we were talking about MY mental illness and MY behavior. There was no other way to interpret it.
She also says that when she came downstairs at the beach to check on me that she gave me every opportunity to talk to her. That she expressed concern for me. What she actually did was stand at the bottom of the stairs, about 10 feet away from me and said, "Are you ignoring us?" Does anyone else see the difference between "What's going on with you and how can I help?" (support) and "Are you ignoring us?" (criticism).
And I can't let go of it. Even when I know all of you and my T are right about her. Even in those moments when I know it. I still can't let go and I still feel abandoned and unbelievably hurt and sad and depressed.
Posted by TherapyGirl on February 20, 2009, at 19:57:39
In reply to Re: Worse than ever » TherapyGirl, posted by sassyfrancesca on February 20, 2009, at 10:23:06
Thanks, Sassy. I'm trying to believe that. I really am. I just can't seem to get there from here right this second.
Posted by TherapyGirl on February 20, 2009, at 19:59:21
In reply to Re: Worse than ever, posted by workinprogress on February 20, 2009, at 10:54:00
Thank you, WIP. I can't take it in right now, but thank you for saying it.
Posted by TherapyGirl on February 20, 2009, at 20:01:42
In reply to Re: Worse than ever » TherapyGirl, posted by raisinb on February 20, 2009, at 11:44:56
Thank you for giving me the gift of hope, Raisinb. I can't fathom why I can't let go of her, but I can't. It feels like the possibility of fun has just permanently shut down for me. And the possibility of holding those connections.
And it just gets worse when I lose my T on top of everything else. I can't bear it.
Posted by TherapyGirl on February 20, 2009, at 20:02:42
In reply to Re: Worse than ever, posted by Phillipa on February 20, 2009, at 13:07:43
Thanks, Phillipa. I don't think she wants to understand. She seems pretty committed to NOT understanding. But maybe one day she'll be open to that.
Posted by TherapyGirl on February 20, 2009, at 20:04:11
In reply to Re: Worse than ever » TherapyGirl, posted by lucie lu on February 20, 2009, at 14:38:45
How do you figure all this stuff out, Lucie? I mean that. HOW? And then how do you hold onto it when the bottom falls out?
Thank you for your post.
Posted by lucie lu on February 20, 2009, at 20:12:46
In reply to Re: Worse than ever » lucie lu, posted by TherapyGirl on February 20, 2009, at 20:04:11
> How do you figure all this stuff out, Lucie? I mean that. HOW? And then how do you hold onto it when the bottom falls out?
>Guess...
Posted by TherapyGirl on February 20, 2009, at 20:13:40
In reply to Re: Worse than ever, posted by lucie lu on February 20, 2009, at 20:12:46
It can't be therapy, right? Or else I would be better at this? I know it probably doesn't seem like it right this second, but I actually have a very good T.
Posted by lucie lu on February 20, 2009, at 20:29:04
In reply to Re: Worse than ever » lucie lu, posted by TherapyGirl on February 20, 2009, at 20:13:40
You are hurting right now, TG. It is hard to think straight when you are in pain. When it recedes, you will begin to see new things. I promise you will.
Posted by Recently on February 20, 2009, at 20:39:12
In reply to Worse than ever, posted by TherapyGirl on February 20, 2009, at 6:40:39
(((TG)))
I'm sorry you are hurting, TG. It's so painful when people aren't as understanding as they should/could be. The "mental illness is no excuse for bad behavior" really got me too... (I've heard that line a time or two before myself). From what I understand of the situation, your friend really overreacted. But I know when these types of fallouts happen it really can make those of us with depression question our ability to form friendships. I'm really sorry you are feeling so badly. Don't be so hard on yourself. You seem like a nice, kind person, to me.
Recently
Posted by petunia on February 21, 2009, at 17:07:48
In reply to Worse than ever, posted by TherapyGirl on February 20, 2009, at 6:40:39
Hi TherapyGirl!
If this doesn't sit right, please throw it out. I hesiateted saying it because I don't know where you are with your feelings right now, but when I came to a similar point in my life someone else pointed this out to me, and it helped me **tremendously**. Maybe it will do the same for you.
Basically, as I was reading your posts on this thread, about how not only one but two major relationships in your life are ending, all I could think of was, "She's getting better!!! She's getting better!!!" :)
When we get better, when we make real progress in our healing, when those unhealthy things that were so absolute inside us for so long finally move and crack and start to change, sometimes the first place we see it is in relationships that implode, often relationships of long standing or that we perceived as deep and lasting.
Inside, when we get better, we can even feel worse. Me, I feel like it will never end, all the fighting and scrabbling and struggling. So feeling better or feeling worse is not always equivalent to actually BEING better.
But the sure sign that you are changing, that you are finally becoming whole, is that the people who depended on you *staying broken* start to fall away. People get used to you being the way you were, even when they love you, and the change is hard. But when people are around you not so much out of love as of meeting their own needs through you, your healing is very, very threatening.
What you describe, mini power plays followed by desertion and excuses that don't work, really fit this scenario as it has played out in my life.
See, when you're dealing with mental illness, there's always a huge power differential between people in a relationship, because you don't have the same command over yourself, your responses, and your environment that they seem to. Not only are they likely more powerful in terms of being able to control the relationship and move you into positions that make themselves comfortable, we on the other side of the MH coin tend to SEE them as more powerful whether they are or not.
Basically, when we're unhealthy, it is all too likely that there are people around us who depend on that unhealthiness. When we get better, they get very uncomfortable.
So when you say you feel like there are people waiting for an excuse to leave, it may actually be true. But for the very best reason in the world: you're NOT bad, you're NOT unlovable, it's just time for them to go. Your sincerity toward them sees only love, and that's why it comes as such a shock and a rupture. But this may be the very best thing that could happen right now: they go so that the others coming to you, with the health and love you can accept now, have room in your life. :)
They need to go -- at least for a time -- so that you can continue to become the real you, the precious you that God created, the you that you were always meant to be. If they're worthy of your friendship, they'll be back, like the other posters described. But people who do you wrong and never own it... those you will never truly need.
I'm going to tell you something else that may be very uncomfortable, and may not apply at all, but you should know: there are many people who are attracted to the "helping" professions not because they need to help, but because they are very comfortable having a steady supply of people they can look down on and/or dominate. Your friend, to be honest, strikes me as one of these. Some people help the disabled, some people help themselves to the disabled. Just sayin'.
So please don't think of yourself as unworthy or bad or wrong. What I am seeing, from where I sit as a stranger who has walked in your shoes, is that you are absolutely perfect, doing what you need to do, making your way. Let them go, let them do what they need to do for them, and you continue on. You're getting better. :)
If none of this fits, please feel free to toss it. My very best wishes to you --
Petunia
Posted by TherapyGirl on February 21, 2009, at 19:38:35
In reply to Re: Worse than ever, posted by petunia on February 21, 2009, at 17:07:48
You make some good points, Petunia, and I appreciate it. I think the problem here is not that I'm getting healthier it is that I took a dive after a fairly long time without this kind of major episode. I think my friend is just not up to the challenge. But much of what you said also applies to her.
My T is retiring at the end of the year, so that's just bad timing. But I'm not sure there would ever have been a good time for her to retire. I've been in therapy with her on and off (mostly on) for 24 years now.
Thanks so much for writing this, though, because much of it applies elsewhere in my life.
Posted by TherapyGirl on February 23, 2009, at 19:40:45
In reply to Re: Worse than ever » petunia, posted by TherapyGirl on February 21, 2009, at 19:38:35
And she lied. My "best friend," that is. Weeks ago I gave her a letter of apology and wrote on there that it was for when she was ready. I have seen it ever since, in a letter file on her kitchen counter, unopened, whenever I walk her dog for her. Tonight I walked the dog and the letter is still there, unopened. She told me last week that she had read my letter and taken all that into consideration.
I know this is just further proof that there is something else going on with her, but I am just amazed that she would look me in the face and flat out lie. Why bring up the letter at all?????
Posted by TherapyGirl on February 23, 2009, at 19:45:04
In reply to Re: Worse than ever -- UPDATE, posted by TherapyGirl on February 23, 2009, at 19:40:45
In the worst possible way, I want to call her up and say, "You know, you were right. Mental illness is NOT an excuse for bad behavior. It's also not an excuse for LYING."
And, of course, I won't do that. Because I don't believe either statement and it makes me crazy every time I hear her saying that in my head. But how is my behavior, which was bad (and during a breakdown) worse than her lying?????? She is not a liar.
Posted by SLS on February 23, 2009, at 19:45:13
In reply to Re: Worse than ever -- UPDATE, posted by TherapyGirl on February 23, 2009, at 19:40:45
(((((TherapyGirl)))))
No particular reason.
:-)
- Scott
Posted by TherapyGirl on February 23, 2009, at 20:22:20
In reply to Re: Worse than ever -- UPDATE » TherapyGirl, posted by SLS on February 23, 2009, at 19:45:13
Thanks, Scott. You are a total sweetheart. I should look for more friends like you and fewer like her.
Posted by DAisym on February 24, 2009, at 0:25:00
In reply to Re: Worse than ever -- UPDATE » SLS, posted by TherapyGirl on February 23, 2009, at 20:22:20
OK - so I'm going to say something that stinks.
Sometimes being a good friend means letting your friends be bad friends. Take the high road, try to give her a lot of space and wait for her to come to her senses and miss you. My best guess is that your break down caused a cascade reaction in her and something snapped.
It is not your fault. But just as you couldn't help yourself, neither can she right now. So be kind to her, even though she wasn't kind to you.
I know she doesn't deserve this. But I believe it is the kindest thing you can do for yourself. Otherwise you are torturing yourself by trying to figure out how to convince her that she should still be your friend. She isn't hearing you nor is this a seemingly rational decision. This sounds like a very old, very deeply buried emotional response. You frightened her and now she has to rebuild herself before she can remember the depth of your friendship. Everything you learn about her right now is going to hurt you. Why are you walking her dog? Don't keep checking on the envelope, or better yet, if you can, take it back without her knowing where it went. Don't grovel, don't beg. You've apologized, explained and told her you love her. Now step back.
I know it hurts like hell and is so unfair. I've had this experience. Three years (yes, years) my friend came and apologized. She said, "it was never your fault and I'm sorry. I was stupid."
I'm sorry to say, we were never that close again. But nothing I would have said at that point would have mattered.I wish we lived close so would could close ranks and guard you from all this pain. But at least we are here and you aren't alone.
Hugs,
Daisy
Posted by TherapyGirl on February 24, 2009, at 6:36:59
In reply to Re: Worse than ever -- UPDATE » TherapyGirl, posted by DAisym on February 24, 2009, at 0:25:00
Thanks, Daisy. You can't imagine the impact your words have had on me this morning. You are, of course, right on so many levels but something about seeing it in print has more impact. You're just right about all of it. And, just like my behavior on our trip was an aberration, her behavior right now is.
I'll try to hold on to that. You know, given the childhoods many of us on this Board had, we always think we can do something to change the outcome in situations like this. It allows us a little more control. I am working on that piece with T.
I even called her on continuing to not manage her looming retirement during our sessions, which we had agreed to do in early November and hasn't been mentioned since unless I bring it up and then she basically takes a pass because it's not a good time for me. I told her, in tears the other morning, that she wasn't going to delay her retirement because I'm depressed and we can't wait to get started on this. She agreed and, I think, had come to the same conclusion herself while away last week.
It's a two session week for me. I'll keep you posted.
Thanks again for, once again, sharing your wisdom. It helps more than I can say.
Posted by SLS on February 24, 2009, at 6:57:17
In reply to Re: Worse than ever -- UPDATE » DAisym, posted by TherapyGirl on February 24, 2009, at 6:36:59
> Thanks again for, once again, sharing your wisdom. It helps more than I can say.
Me too.
- Scott
Posted by raisinb on February 24, 2009, at 7:52:19
In reply to Re: Worse than ever -- UPDATE, posted by TherapyGirl on February 23, 2009, at 19:40:45
That's odd--and does tell you that it's really not your fault--at least not all your fault.
Try to take care of yourself and let this go for awhile, if you can.
(((TG)))
Posted by TherapyGirl on February 24, 2009, at 19:33:18
In reply to Re: Worse than ever -- UPDATE » DAisym, posted by TherapyGirl on February 24, 2009, at 6:36:59
Thanks to all of you. Apparently I need to hear the same thing from multiple sources to even begin to try to internalize the message.
Daisy -- I printed your post and showed it to my T tonight. She has assigned me the "homework" (which we don't really do) of pulling that out and re-reading it every single time I hear my friend's voice in my head saying the things she said to me. So I will try to do that.
And I forgot to address the dog issue. I'm still walking her dog because her dog and I have a relationship separate from her and me. I've never really done the dog thing before, but this one is special AND trained as a therapy dog. He has been amazingly comforting during the last 5 weeks. She has let me bring him to my house for visits. Just having him next to my hip and feeling his heart beat when I pet him is calming in a way that few other things are right now.
He's also moving in with me for 8 days while she's on vacation next month. I'm going to do that, too, because I think it will give me a focus and because the nights have been the hardest for me to handle. And because he doesn't do well without human companionship for that long. So I'll be helping him, too.
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