![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Suedehead on October 28, 2008, at 23:30:24
I'm sitting here quietly freaking out about something I did earlier this evening, so I thought I'd see what you all think about it.
I had a dream about my T last night in which I broke into his house, thinking that he wasn't there. When I realized that he was home, I panicked and ran to my parents' house. I hoped that my T hadn't seen me, but when he showed up at the house a minute later, I knew that he had. I let him in and told him that we could talk upstairs in my parents' room if he wanted. He agreed and followed behind me. We sat down on the floor and I apologized for breaking into his house. I started to cry, and he put his arm around me and reassured me that he wasn't angry. We proceeded to have a really strange conversation about all sorts of seemingly random things--I asked him if he liked to garden, he told me that he owned a restaurant and played the piano, etc., etc. Somehow we ended up in my parents' bed together, naked. Suddenly, my mom came home, and I told him to hide under the blankets, which he did. When my mom came into the room, she asked me if there was someone in the bed with me, and just as I was about to insist that there wasn't, he stepped out of the closet on the other side of the room, fully dressed, and introduced himself, explaining that I'd had an emergency and he'd come over to make sure that I was alright. "I do this for all my patients," he said. My mom seemed totally fine with all this and invited him to stay for dinner. At this point I woke up.
For some reason this dream freaked me out a lot. I couldn't stop thinking about it all day, so I finally broke down and wrote him an email about it tonight. This was the first unsolicited email I've sent him, so I'm feeling a little bit like I've crossed some kind of boundary. I'm also worried that he'll think I'm being seductive (by telling him about a dream in which we're naked in my parents' bed together!), given that we've spent the last three weeks dealing with our mutual attraction to one another. He hasn't written back. I don't know. Maybe it was a mistake to send it? On the other hand, I *know* I wouldn't have been able to give him all of the details in person, so maybe it will prove to be productive? Ugh, therapy is so frustrating.
Posted by Wittgensteinz on October 29, 2008, at 5:10:46
In reply to Ill-advised emails, posted by Suedehead on October 28, 2008, at 23:30:24
Hi Suedehead,
I think it was very courageous of you to share this dream in an e-mail with your T. It might not sit that comfortably with you now but I think it was the right thing to do, no not seductive, but potentially very helpful for you, and for him.
I'm no expert at dream analysis but might it not have a lot to do with the mutual confession of attraction that recently occurred in your therapy? Laying yourself both bare - lying naked in bed together - the feelings you have of stepping over the boundaries - desire for it but also fear of being seductive - sneaking into his house and being caught - your mother coming into the room - your T 'coming out of the closet' and then everything being just 'normal', despite your having just layed naked in bed with one another.
I think it's a powerful dream and important. I think it's very honest and open of your to share this - both with your T and here with us. I hope your T is able to help you interpret it in a positive way.
Witti
Posted by seldomseen on October 29, 2008, at 5:47:37
In reply to Ill-advised emails, posted by Suedehead on October 28, 2008, at 23:30:24
I really don't agree that this email was ill-advised. Much as Witti indicated, I think this is a very very good dream and represents a deeper connection to your T, but that you are a little ambivalent about it.
I've dreamt that I was in bed naked with my T before (in fact, I remember thinking in the dream how thin he was and wanted to make him a sandwich) and it's usually not the literal expression of wanting to be actually naked with him.
It's okay and very brave that you shared it with him. I think this will turn out to be very good for you.
Seldom
Posted by sassyfrancesca on October 29, 2008, at 7:46:41
In reply to Re: Ill-advised emails, posted by seldomseen on October 29, 2008, at 5:47:37
I have had many dreams about sleeping with my t and just being with him in different places. I had a really embarrassing dream, but i DID tell him about it. I dreamed I told him: "I want to worship your"...well, you know, LOL, LOL
Being that he is also a pastor, makes it really funny and ironic.
I figure if I could tell him that, there isn't anything I couldn't tell him, LOL
Yes, good to discuss it with him.
Hugs, Sassy
Posted by Phillipa on October 29, 2008, at 13:01:54
In reply to Re: Ill-advised emails » seldomseen, posted by sassyfrancesca on October 29, 2008, at 7:46:41
I feel the dream anylysis was pretty acurate and good. Not that I'm an expert at it as can't interpret my own. Phillipa
Posted by lucie lu on October 29, 2008, at 18:22:48
In reply to Ill-advised emails, posted by Suedehead on October 28, 2008, at 23:30:24
Suede,
I don't think you did anything in the least bit inappropriate! There are really two slightly different issues although both concern boundaries. The first is the unsolicited email. He must have given you his email address, and if he prefers you to limit its use or for you to communicate with him a different way between sessions, he will simply tell you (or may allow negotiation). Even if unsolicited, your email was about true therapy "business" after all - it's not like you emailed him a chain letter or spammed him, right? As for the dream itself, I agree with the others that your candid disclosure of your dream will provide great stuff to work on in your session. And your dreams, thoughts, and feelings can never been boundary crossings. You can't control them. That's why not being allowed to act upon them leaves us so free to explore their meanings. Your dream is also a lot more than the overtly sexual themes, there are lots of levels to look at. I think you'll probably have some very productive sessions discussing them.
Also your worry about "being seductive" is well-intentioned but misplaced. You should not fear the effect of ANY of your material on his countertransference or actions - they are entirely his responsibility. This is one of the arguments against T's expressing reciprocal attraction to a client - that it can inhibit therapy. It is the client's job to be seductive (or provocative or destructive or whatever) and it is the Ts job to contain it and protect the therapy. So you are just doing your job, and hopefully he will do his. If things are not working out that way, though, and role reversals are happening in your therapy, that's a red flag and you should seriously consider referral sooner rather than later. Hopefully all will be well but keep your eyes open.
Lucie
Posted by Suedehead on October 29, 2008, at 18:44:38
In reply to Re: Ill-advised emails » Suedehead, posted by lucie lu on October 29, 2008, at 18:22:48
Thanks for your replies, everyone. I'm feeling a little better about having sent it. He hasn't responded, which makes me kind of nervous. However, Lucie's insight that I shouldn't have to worry about the effects of my material on his countertransference is spot-on, I think, and I'm doing my best to keep it in mind. So far, we've been working through the issues arising from our mutual attraction really, really well. He has been very warm and open about his feelings while remaining totally professional and making me feel safe with him. I'm looking forward to seeing him tomorrow morning--it should be a productive session. I'll let you all know how it goes.
Posted by JoniS on October 29, 2008, at 20:00:28
In reply to Re: Ill-advised emails, posted by Suedehead on October 29, 2008, at 18:44:38
FWIW I agree with lucie lu totally on the emails.
But- this blows my mind - a t talking about their attraction...!?? My t doesnt really share his feelings, he usually says "how do you think I feel about you?..." That would be awesome to have a t come right out and share that he had mutual feels of attraction. (Of course I dont mean to act on them...)What was that like for you? Did it sort of take away the power that your feelings had over you?
Joni
Posted by Daisym on October 29, 2008, at 22:32:13
In reply to Ill-advised emails, posted by Suedehead on October 28, 2008, at 23:30:24
There are so many things in this dream that suggest how ambivalent you are feeling about your therapy and therapist right now. I think your mom might represent a protective side of you that is wondering "what are you doing?" and your therapist is doing some kind of magician's dance around it all - he is naked with you - transparent about his feelings - but then he slides over to the closet emerges dressed and professional. It is interesting that in your dream he says he does this for all his clients...is this a worry you have? And breaking into his house but ending up in your parents bedroom - a place where sex occurs and children aren't suppose to know this but do know this (forbidden knowledge)- is deeply suggestive of how scary but exciting this might feel inside you.
I'm glad you emailed him and I hope you can see this dream not as provocative, but more as a window to your internal fears and conflicts about his disclosure.
Posted by JouezMoi on October 30, 2008, at 6:06:46
In reply to Re: Ill-advised emails, posted by Daisym on October 29, 2008, at 22:32:13
This may be about learning that it's OK for two people to like eachother, and to appreciate eachother and the relationship for just what it is. There are varying opinions on disclosure (read Between Client and Therapist - The New Relationship by Michael Kohn. It is focussed on the therapist and goes into countertransference more than most books.) There is also a theory about sexual tension and social anxiety/ acceptance as the reason that sexual tension manifests. Once acceptance is granted, the sexual tension tends to disappear (doesn't do well for marriages I guess). I think it is healthy that he disclosed and more important that they roots should be explored in session.
Posted by Suedehead on October 30, 2008, at 18:27:57
In reply to Re: Ill-advised emails, posted by Daisym on October 29, 2008, at 22:32:13
Daisy, I think you're right that I'm feeling deeply ambivalent about my T. It's hard for me to admit that, I think, because that means having to admit that on some level I'm very angry with him right now. I don't want to be angry, and so I've been trying to quash my feelings of hostility whenever they arise. I guess that some of these feelings came out in my dream despite my efforts to keep them away! The very end of it is especially telling, I think--we're in bed one minute, as intimate as two people can be, and the next, he's emerging from the closet, fully clothed, pretending that nothing had happened. This illustrates pretty well the feeling I have that ever since his disclosure, there has been a weird and frustrating on/off quality to our interactions with one another. One minute, he's really present, candid about his feelings, intensely empathetic and caring, and the next, he's totally clinical, framing everything about our relationship in wholly therapeutic terms, ignoring the personal component entirely, and so on.
We actually talked about this today, but I don't think we really got anywhere. It was an incredibly painful session, actually. I felt like crying for most of it. He wasn't too happy that I'd emailed him the dream; he said that he wished I'd felt comfortable enough to tell him about it in person. He said, "I know that it's awkward, but we're going to have to find a way around that. By emailing me, you're conveying the information, sure, but you're doing it from a distance, and I don't want that." He also suggested that by emailing it instead of waiting to try to talk to him, or writing it in a note to give to him in person, I was trying to 'trap' myself into talking about it (since I might not have had the courage to talk or give him the note when it came down to it, but once the email was sent, there was no going back)--and that 'trapping' oneself into talking about something is not really conducive to having very positive or productive conversations about that thing. He's right, of course, but it hurt to hear it. I thought that he was kind of unduly harsh, honestly, because it took a lot of nerve for me to email him, and he didn't even acknowledge that. Sure, it may not have been sufficiently brave or sufficiently open (or whatever) for him, but, God, I'm *trying*, you know? I figured that if trapping myself into talking about it was the best that I could do, I should do it, and I had hoped that he would appreciate the effort.
There's more, but I'm tired, and I don't think I can summon the energy to write about it all right now. Maybe later...
Posted by Suedehead on October 30, 2008, at 19:25:16
In reply to Re: Ill-advised emails, posted by Suedehead on October 30, 2008, at 18:27:57
Something I hate is that when there is a rupture in any normal social relationship, you're free to contact the other person at any time to say, "Hi, we really need to talk about this--I am upset, and I want to work things out," but when you have a spat with your therapist, you just have to wait to address it until your allotted time rolls around, and by that point, you've probably forgotten lots of little insights that might have proved productive had you been able to communicate them when you actually had them, and your feelings have probably weakened somewhat, or changed in subtle ways, and everything feels hopeless and artificial and unfair. Well, that's how it is for me, anyway. Interestingly, ever since my therapist admitted his attraction, I've been even *more* annoyed and saddened by our lack of contact between sessions. I'm disappointed, I guess--it's like, "Hey, if you really like me as much as you say you do, then why won't you give me MORE of yourself?" And I know that's irrational, and that he CAN'T give me certain things without crossing serious, serious boundaries, but, wow, this is hard. Sorry for going on about this. I'm having a rough day.
Posted by DAisym on October 30, 2008, at 23:59:48
In reply to In which I vent about my stupid T, posted by Suedehead on October 30, 2008, at 19:25:16
In all of my training there has been a mantra - "is this good for the patient, good for you, good for both or good for neither?" We of course shorten it to, "is this good for the patient..." But it is important to look at disclosure. Honesty can be fraught with peril. As a patient, I'm much more selective now on what I ask and where I might go hunting for information about my therapist. It is God-awful painful to run into his "other" life - the one that doesn't include me. I think professionals sometimes delude themselves that getting it all out on the table in the name of authenticity is good for the patient. I've heard over and over again that this is the way to work through it - that it will help the therapy. But I don't totally believe that.
I think knowing that your therapist cares about you is super important. But I think hearing about their attraction brings their struggles into your space - and you have to help hold their stuff as well as your own. Therapy relationships are complicated enough with our own hopes and wishes - but somehow we know that in that safe space reality is suspended. Knowing how they "really" feel allows reality into the room. That is a lot to hold. And I think they are less consistent because they themselves are conflicted. Imagine their internal questions, "did I lead her on? Did I let something go that I know would cause pain? Am I being professional enough? Fair enough? Strict enough?" I can just hear their self-talk - bending over backwards to hold the boundaries.
I'd be angry too. He has created a space in which you are taking care of his feelings and you are now forced to worry (consciously or unconsciously) that something you say will change his feelings for you - and he has created a trajedy for you to grieve - the potential of you two together "if only." How does this focus on what you need(ed) from the therapy? Where are your original issues in all of this?
Sorry I wrote so much. I guess this touches a button in me. I just hear so much anguish and wish I could help more.
Be gentle with yourself.
Posted by seldomseen on October 31, 2008, at 4:52:11
In reply to In which I vent about my stupid T, posted by Suedehead on October 30, 2008, at 19:25:16
My therapist told me the he was attracted to me as well. Looking back on it, it drove the therapy and ended up being very productive for me.
But it took a while to get to that place.
I completely understand the "push/pull" that you feel and the "if you feel that way why don't you...." Above all else, it is confusing. Very very confusing.
I think what you must do is talk and talk and talk to him about his disclosure, how it made you feel (both good and bad). Did it frighten you? Because it scared me more than a little bit.
Like Daisy indicated, I also think there was some bending over backwards to re-establish the boundaries. Which, of course, just felt like rejection to me and if that happens to you let him know.
In a recent session he put himself right in the middle of sexual topic I was discussing and on two separate occasions in that session indicated that he thought I was very sexy. (It's not as bad as it seems.) Now I know he is getting geared up to re-establish boundaries and I'm preparing for the rejection. Even though I know it is just a perceived one by this point in therapy.
I'm handling this exactly the wrong way - by letting it fester and not talking, but it's not going to get better until I do.
So please, don't do what I'm doing and talk to your therapist.
Seldom
Posted by sassyfrancesca on October 31, 2008, at 12:59:48
In reply to In which I vent about my stupid T, posted by Suedehead on October 30, 2008, at 19:25:16
I TOTALLY agree with what you said, and your t using that psychobabble about you e-mailing the dream instead of telling him in person.
Stupid.
P.S. It did happen once (we've had a few spats/misunderstandings and he knows when I am ANGRY, LOL); i called him the next day and told him this couldn't wait for a week. he agreed, and we met that evening.
Thats why that relatoinship is so artificial; waiting to talk about something upsetting for a WEEK.
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Psychology | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.