![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 12 to 36 of 39. Go back in thread:
Posted by Dinah on October 9, 2008, at 10:05:24
In reply to Re: My T made me really cry today » Dinah, posted by antigua3 on October 9, 2008, at 7:01:26
> <(well, if the good enough mother chose that man to father her children anyway).>
>
> >>Can you explain what you mean by this?I think that probably came from my own insecurities about being a mother.
Posted by Nadezda on October 9, 2008, at 10:10:34
In reply to More (long) **Trigger**, posted by antigua3 on October 9, 2008, at 8:16:55
Antigua,
I know you've had these feelings about your pdoc for a long time. There's something tying you to him and, in a way, I don't want to question that, because it's hard to evaluate or know what's really going on emotionally with a relationship.
I get the feeling that you do go to him because he treats you like your father did-- in a symbolic way-- and you had some need to reexperience that. Is it really helpful though? Do you believe you couldn't reexperience the emotions of your relationship with your father with someone who's more overtly caring (not through saying, I care-- but acting in a way that says I care-- in many spoken and unspoken ways)? I do wonder if you aren't replaying some type of trauma of your mistreatment by your father, and wish for a good mother who will make it better and take care of you. It feels as if a pdoc who had boundaries, but less strict ones, or who was able to say, I'm invested-- but the boundaries are important--and who gave you enough to hold you between meetings-- would be a positive force.
You defend your pdoc-- but is it truly a constructive relationship, or, rather, one that meets the need to remain connected to an unhelpful or even hurtful father? Someone with whom you could experience angry feelings while repairing the anger, not simply repeating it? Is it truly the most useful thing to go through this with your pdoc and have to have your T pick up the pieces? It's not that I don't think this issues you address with him are important-- but let me just ask: do you feel that you're making progress with *him*-- through him-- ? or only because he evokes the angry and hurt feelings-- which then are taken to your T, who helps you contain them?
I think that moment when you say "he tried and I rejected him" is also part of the cycle with him. I feel as if, even if he hasn't said that per se-- you've been though this-- where you feel that somehow there's a small chance for things to change, and you cling to that,, and blame yourself because you didn't grasp this fleeting hope-- But I question whether there was a solid chance there, or only a chimera that appears and disappears in a way that only keeps you hooked in.
So I do have to really wonder if you are on the right track with him. I get the feeling that you wonder that a lot-- but maybe without really taking it quite seriously enough.
But it's wonderful-- very-- that your T is so dedicated and loving, and that you find the sort of warmth and caring, and softness that you need. I'm touched to hear that--because it shows how deep the commitment is, and how meaningful the work is to her, as well as you, and that's a beautiful thing.
Nadezda
Posted by antigua3 on October 9, 2008, at 11:29:55
In reply to Re: My T made me really cry today, posted by Dinah on October 9, 2008, at 10:05:24
No, I'm serious. I don't understand what you mean by this. I'm a little dense...
Thanks,
antigua
Posted by Dinah on October 9, 2008, at 12:48:24
In reply to Re: My T made me really cry today » Dinah, posted by antigua3 on October 9, 2008, at 11:29:55
I know you're serious. I just realized I probably shouldn't have said it because it was my issue, not generalizable I think.
I have a hard time holding onto the big picture, and when my husband is stressed, he becomes critical and hard to live with. My therapist explains it as his way to feel more in control when he feels out of control elsewhere. It upsets my son a lot, because my son is already pretty self critical.
At those times, I think to myself that I can't be a good enough mother because I chose my husband to be the father of my child, and that disqualifies me as a good enough mother. Of course most of the time he's a terrific father, so all of that is nonsense. I can't think of anyone I'd rather have as the father of my child.
And it's never something I think about anyone else, just myself.
I was tired and stressed last night and added my own personal issue about myself to my post, is all.
Posted by rskontos on October 9, 2008, at 13:38:42
In reply to More (long) **Trigger**, posted by antigua3 on October 9, 2008, at 8:16:55
Antigua,
I really can relate in way to your posts about your p-doc. Now for me my p-doc is also my therapists. But I have to tell you, my p-doc did for me what your T did for you. I was having anxiety about paying for therapy with him being out of network and then in May, I had used what little they did pay. I told him I just couldn't come anymore until it kicked back in. He said, like your T, don't let that get in the way of progress. I did not assume that meant free, I wasn't sure. Two sessions went by and I told him I was struggling to pay his may or june bill and would have to do it in payments. He said, how about we just forget about it for now? I too said, why would you do that? My own father would not help me like this. He said because I was worth it and he felt like his time was well spent in helping me. If he had enough time and consistency he felt he could help me tremendously. It took me three sessions and a great deal of thinking to process this and what it meant.
Now my p-doc and I don't talk about personal stuff unless I bring it up. He isn't exactly warm and fuzzy but he isn't cold either. I feel like he probably knows too much talk about feelings from him would be a real touchy thing for me. Your p-doc sounds somewhat like mine. Mine has called me on my perceptions at times. He pushes sometimes and doesn't sometimes. I don't know it works because my parents both were lousy parents. I had a bad childhood. My flashbacks are coming back and I am scared of them. He knows. He helps me acknowledge my feelings which for me is a bigger. Somehow he knows just enough to be real to me, too much and I will run. He says to me, that I will probably try to run from him again. It is to be expected as more comes out to the surface.
So I understand a p-doc's frame of reference. I believe for me it helps me more. Now maybe yours is something that is too hard on you. But these feelings, do you think they need to come out. The things he gets out of you, are they necessary deep down to your well-being. You should have a gut instinct regarding that.
My p-doc too has left me in a precarious state. I have cried afterwards and be in dissociative states after leaving him. So he now tries hard not to do that.
From my point of view, you too do seem to have a relationship that is working on some level. I mean at least you do tell him what he is doing that upsets you, how his treatment makes you feel and how sometimes his behavior relates or makes you feel like your father did. Isn't that what therapy is about uncovering what is holding you back and helping you work through it?
I do understand how you want reassurance from him. It is a different relationship, working relationship than your t. One that is less nurturing it would seem but maybe the two are working in sync to help you get to this deeper place.
Have you thought about it becoming more abusive prior to your T questioning of the relationship or did she initiate this questioning? To me that is important. If you have been wondering prior to her thoughts, then is it vital you tell him how you feel. That you are wondering if this isn't trauma all over again.
I did this with my p-doc. I told him I thought this was retraumatizing. We worked it out. Maybe you need to really get that out to your p-doc and see how he deals with that information.
I just wanted to present a case for some good p-docs like mine that although he has high fees too, he is treating me right now for free and has been since May. I am still amazed. It is hard to wrap my mind around it actually.
Good luck, Antigua.
I know this is a struggle and a difficult one. One part of me thinks you have really gotten to a deeper part that is necessary. I feel I have to get further into a place I don't want to go but I know I need to. But it sounds like you are hurting and you need to discover if you have gone too far or not.
(((((((((((((Antigua)))))))))) I am sorry this is so long. I trust you can just tune me out if I don't make sense. And I hope I was too intrusive myself in my opinions.
rsk
Posted by lucie lu on October 9, 2008, at 15:52:29
In reply to My T made me really cry today, posted by antigua3 on October 8, 2008, at 20:09:32
Antigua,
I agree with what others have said, but this thread has also stirred up some self-reflection as well.
First of all, I had a big lump in my throat when I read the part about your T. I felt physically warmed by your story, as if someone had put an arm around me. But the part about your pdoc, particularly regarding the writing ban (I write too, although you wouldnt know it from many of my posts), made me furious. I am slowly learning to count to ten before criticizing other peoples Ts, even when they are being complained about. Having said that I am not a real fan of tough-love therapy, and his approach seems to me like trying to cure PTSD by returning to the front lines to get shot at. OK, Ill own that criticism.
But I became aware that the thread was generating a lot of feelings within me, love, fury, resentment, a sense of unfairness, and as I began to look at how so many strong reactions were being triggered, I realized how much your situation was resonating within me. And I wont even start with the triangulation.
Anyway, I guess I cant be much help because I obviously am not able to see your pdoc, or your relationship with him, with anything remotely resembling objectivity. If you feel you are making progress with him that couldnt be made any other way, then it must be working, and you are the best judge of that. I do think that his treatment borders on re-traumatization but due to my own bias, I couldnt tell you which side of the border it remains on. And I adore your T.
Hugs,
Lucie
Posted by antigua3 on October 9, 2008, at 17:15:25
In reply to More (long) **Trigger**, posted by antigua3 on October 9, 2008, at 8:16:55
Wow, this is so painful and hurtful. I spent the day hiding in bed, which I havent done in months.
I appreciate everyones replies. They were honest and insightful, and what I asked foran outsiders opinion of my therapy w/my pdoc. While everything Ive written is just from my perspective, I thats all that counts.
I have been seeing my pdoc for therapy for about a year (for meds a total of three or four years). Hes the one who suggested we pursue therapy, and I agreed.
I am embarrassed, no, ashamed to admit that since beginning therapy w/him, I now realize that I have been running to mommy to tell on daddy. I never had that as a kid. But Im not sure its helpful, because it doesnt mirror what was actually going on. Its time to stop.
It has been suggested to me by other people and professionals that Ive been in therapy w/my T for too long, that Ive gone as far as I can with her, and that Im afraid to leave the nest. Its true, and its time to grow up.
My pdoc can never give me what I want due to his orientation and the limitations of his own capabilities. You cant force someone to care about you, although in many respects I think he does. I want him to provide me with the same cocoon my T provides, and that is not possible.
While I am desperate to find out what the fear and terror is that lurks underneath me every day, one that keeps my hypervigilant and makes me jumpy at the sound of even the slightest noise. I live my live clenched always, waiting, not relaxing unless it is by medication, which is not something I want to continue to do for the rest of my life.
I cant make the terror come forth; its humanely impossible. Ive tried every way I know how and Im going to have to live with my not knowing.
I will never, EVER enter therapy with another T, especially a male, because I dont want to fall in love and be consumed by feelings of transference. Its too painful, and I simply dont have the time. I need to be concentrating on my life, instead of my therapy.
So the question has been asked many times here: When is it enough? Heres my answer. This is enough. Ive been through the blender too many times, chopped into tiny pieces, pierced and pulled, and still dont have the answer I seek, or the relief from the underlying terror I live with every day.
The last question is to resolve the writing. Hopefully, I can find a way to do that.
Thanks again everyone,
antigua
Posted by Dinah on October 9, 2008, at 17:21:33
In reply to Thank you everyone, posted by antigua3 on October 9, 2008, at 17:15:25
That's absolutely in no way what I'd ever suggest, and not what I meant by what I wrote in any way.
I don't think you should leave your therapist at all. Or your pdoc if he's being helpful to you.
It doesn't sound to me as if you've gone as far as you can. You sound as if you've gone further than you were before even very recently.
I'm sorry if anything I wrote gave you that impression. It wasn't at all what I was thinking.
Posted by lucie lu on October 9, 2008, at 18:07:19
In reply to Re: Thank you everyone » antigua3, posted by Dinah on October 9, 2008, at 17:21:33
Antigua,
You sound overwhelmed :-( I'm sorry if I contributed to it with my own baggage. You wanted feedback about your pdoc, but it really cant be easy for you to integrate such feedback into a concrete, realistic plan for your therapy. And that's where you know more than anyone, including what your goals are. It sounds to me as though important goals have not yet been reached for you. I personally would not want to go through life with questions like that looming. Thats why Im in therapy.I can totally empathize with the conclusion you reached, sometimes that is mine as well, particularly when I am frustrated and hurting. But that is only one conclusion that can be reached from where you are. There are others. Its not black and white, there are shades of grey. You can accept those productive connections and realizations you have been making and not have them lead to a single inescapable conclusion. One thing you see all the time on Babble is the advice to take things slowly, in baby steps. Im sure you can figure out how to apply that to your situation. Also, you can take time out, take the time you need to re-equilibrate or just catch a breather. Things have been very intense for you lately, Antigua. Maybe you should focus on what feels good for you right now and not feel you have to make any major decisions just yet. I also wonder whether your DHs feelings about your therapy may be playing a role here. Are you feeling pressured?
Lets keep the conversation going...
(((((((((((((Antigua)))))))))))))))))
Love,
Lucie
Posted by lucie lu on October 9, 2008, at 18:08:59
In reply to Re: Thank you everyone » Dinah, posted by lucie lu on October 9, 2008, at 18:07:19
Posted by antigua3 on October 9, 2008, at 18:39:33
In reply to Thank you everyone, posted by antigua3 on October 9, 2008, at 17:15:25
Nobody said anything specifically to make me respond this way. It's the culmination of knowledge and understanding from so many quarters, so please, nobody should feel badly about this. I wrote this of my own volition and not based specifically on what anyone said.
You all have been honest and insightful, and I'm very grateful,
antigua
Posted by Dinah on October 9, 2008, at 21:54:57
In reply to Re: Thank you everyone » antigua3, posted by antigua3 on October 9, 2008, at 18:39:33
Please don't make any final decisions while you're feeling so upset. Maybe you can talk to your therapist and pdoc about it?
I really didn't mean that you triangulate in any bad way. I actually meant it in a good way. Not that you're telling stories to your therapist about your pdoc but that she is being a good enough mother to you.
And if you say your pdoc isn't as withholding as it may seem, I certainly believe that too. I can assure you that if my therapist were writing the story of our relationship on Babble, there is no way anyone would be able to connect my posts with his. I see our relationship through the viewpoint of my history and needs. He has on an entirely different set of spectacles.
Posted by TherapyGirl on October 9, 2008, at 22:23:48
In reply to Re: Thank you everyone » antigua3, posted by antigua3 on October 9, 2008, at 18:39:33
I'm sorry that it's so bad for you right now, Antigua. As usual, I don't have much helpful to say, except that you have been so helpful to me, especially in my T's absence. Whatever you decide, I hope you are just as supportive and wonderful towards yourself as you've been towards me.
((((((Antigua))))))
Posted by Nadezda on October 9, 2008, at 22:26:12
In reply to Thank you everyone, posted by antigua3 on October 9, 2008, at 17:15:25
Hi, Antigua. I'm sorry you're in so much pain over this.
But I wonder if you aren't punishing yourself now-- perhaps for telling on your father, if that is part of what's going on-- or in the belief that you "set yourself up" for this retraumatization with your pdoc. I don't know what this situation means, but it's not worth acting abruptly and sending yourself into further turmoil.
You really don't need to take any action. In the midst of a storm of feelings-- hurt, anger, self-blame and the rest-- is not a time to change things radically. It's a time to start to look at what's happened, at what you feel about it, at why it might have happened-- and then, over time, to come to the right decision.
It's not that you have to stop doing something, or needing something or all is lost; whatever has happened, has a reason-- and can be handled over time.
You certainly need your T;, and you may need this pdoc for a while, because you have in a very intense connection of some kind-- even if it's not good for you.
Whatever happened isn't entirely of your doing-- after all your pdoc offered to see you. I would see that as an impossible to refuse offer--under the circumstances-- for all sorts of reasons. I don't doubt that he had the best of motives; he may have thought his ability to help with boundaries would be useful. But I dont' think he has the temperament or the right approach for you-- not only as an individual-- but as someone who has very different issues-- and age-- from his usual patients.
If anything I would stay within the framework that you've created for yourself, where you're working with a T who cares about you a great deal, and, until you;re more comfortable and sure about ending it, with a pdoc who also cares, but may not be able to give what you need.
I very much hope that you can begin to write again-- and not let his limitations-- and his views-- keep you from expressing yourself in such an important way.
Whatever changes you need to make can't be make precipitously and and, to be in your best interests, should be prepared for, and shouldn't cause you so much pain.
Nadezda
Posted by antigua3 on October 9, 2008, at 22:38:53
In reply to Re: Thank you everyone » antigua3, posted by Dinah on October 9, 2008, at 21:54:57
Dinah,
Please, please don't worry yourself. You didn't say anything wrong.I always appreciate your responses; you bring so much experience to the discussion.
antigua
Posted by antigua3 on October 9, 2008, at 23:16:34
In reply to Re: Thank you everyone » antigua3, posted by Nadezda on October 9, 2008, at 22:26:12
I'm sorry I didn't respond to you personally on your earlier post; I really wasn't quite sure what to say.
This time, I do:>
> But I wonder if you aren't punishing yourself now-- perhaps for telling on your father, if that is part of what's going on-- or in the belief that you "set yourself up" for this retraumatization with your pdoc.>>It doesn't feel like I'm punishing myself for telling on my father at all; that all feels pretty inconsequential at this point because i've received support from my T (and I just realized today that I have been doing this)
>>and I did not set myself up for being retraumatized. I know that I can get very angry with myself when I find I'm in this situation again, but I don't feel that way right now. It's not my fault. Wow, just like the abuse wasn't my fault. That thought just occurred to me as I was writing.
>>No, this not working out w/my pdoc is just a mismatch. And I tried really hard to make it fit, but it doesn't, and it isn't my fault and I don't think it is his either. I think he found me as a challenge and often didn't know quite what to do w/me.
>I don't know what this situation means, but it's not worth acting abruptly and sending yourself into further turmoil.
>>>I'm not looking for any more turmoil; I'm looking for peace, of accepting the world as it is,as I am, and to quit struggling against the tide. I'm tired of trying; I'm worn out.
> You really don't need to take any action. In the midst of a storm of feelings-- hurt, anger, self-blame and the rest-- is not a time to change things radically. It's a time to start to look at what's happened, at what you feel about it, at why it might have happened-- and then, over time, to come to the right decision.
>>Oh, but it could be the best time to make the changes, to silence the questions, the innuendos, the unknowns, the chattering in my head, even, to find peace. The peace of mind when it's naturally quiet. The rest of what you suggest requires too much. I can't do it anymore; I don't have the energy anymore; I don't have the fight w/in me.
I'm probably as good as I'm ever going to get, and that will have to be fine enough.
>
>
> You certainly need your T;, and you may need this pdoc for a while, because you have in a very intense connection of some kind-- even if it's not good for you.
>
> But I dont' think he has the temperament or the right approach for you-- not only as an individual-- but as someone who has very different issues-- and age-- from his usual patients.
>>>Interesting points to consider.
> If anything I would stay within the framework that you've created for yourself, where you're working with a T who cares about you a great deal, and, until you;re more comfortable and sure about ending it, with a pdoc who also cares, but may not be able to give what you need.
>
>
> Whatever changes you need to make can't be make precipitously and and, to be in your best interests, should be prepared for, and shouldn't cause you so much pain.
>
>>With all due respect, I don't agree. I don't want to drag this out. If I speak w/either of them, they will make me talk, and will talk me out of this.It's not fair to my T because I can't afford to pay her now, despite her kindness. Maybe I just don't want to be put into that position. It has been time to go for a long time.
I will meet w/my pdoc and explain. He isn't vested in this, so I will suffer the pain, but he'll be able to fill my spot quickly. Being able to resolve the writing issue may prove more cumbersome. I'll have to think on that before I see him. It's over though; I've had enough.
Thank you so much for making me think,
antigua
Posted by FindingMyDesire on October 9, 2008, at 23:26:50
In reply to My T made me really cry today, posted by antigua3 on October 8, 2008, at 20:09:32
Dear Antigua,
You express so much with your writing here... I know there are so many extremely important topics and dynamics in this thread exchange, but the one I feel I would like to add to is the one about writing. Writing is central to those that write.I'm guessing it is part of your core - part of who you are. I totally get what a risk it is to share it - especially in therapy. There is a risk of being crushed. Sounds like it felt like this happened. It's not easy to just pick it up again because it's so much - you that got crushed. Right?
But, I'm hoping you will soon. Very soon. I don't know what you look like, obviously, but I'm picturing you anyway - writing right now... maybe with your T...
Love,
FMD
Posted by antigua3 on October 9, 2008, at 23:35:05
In reply to Re: Thank you everyone » Dinah, posted by lucie lu on October 9, 2008, at 18:07:19
> Antigua,
> You sound overwhelmed>> I am, and I feel like I've been an indulgent child for far too long when it comes to my therapy. I'm only speaking for myself here, BTW, so please don't anyone take offense (I've invested many, many years in this and have tried just about everything, and anyone who feels they are still making progress on their journey, kepp going!). I say this because I've reached a point where I feel like I've had enough. I am who I am
and I'm not going to get any better than this.>It sounds to me as though important goals have not yet been reached for you. I personally would not want to go through life with questions like that looming. Thats why Im in therapy.
>>I applaud your efforts. Keep it up and I sincerely hope that you reach your goals.
I think maybe I just kept setting the bar higher until it had become an impossible goal to achieve. I should be happy with how far I've come and how well I function, and that should be enough. It will be enough.> Its not black and white, there are shades of grey.
>>Wish I had a dollar for how many times I've heard this from my pdoc, although he, of course, operates in B&W. I try to see the world in gray, but in times of struggle it's hard to see it any other way. But at least i've learned to recognize it, which is helpful w/coping with it.
> Maybe you should focus on what feels good for you right now and not feel you have to make any major decisions just yet. I also wonder whether your DHs feelings about your therapy may be playing a role here. Are you feeling pressured?
>
Yes, I do feel intense pressure from my husband over this. He hates my pdoc with an inordinate passion, but he is fond of my T. Nothing feels good now, and I have some time before I'm scheduled to see either my T or pdoc. I'll think it through.Thank you so much,
antigua
Posted by antigua3 on October 9, 2008, at 23:45:22
In reply to Re: More (long) **Trigger** » antigua3, posted by rskontos on October 9, 2008, at 13:38:42
Thank you so much for your reply.
I can relate to a lot of what you've said, and I'm very glad to hear that you were able to work things out w/your pdoc.
No, my T didn't initiate the question over whether this was retraumatization w/my pdoc. I brought it up with him myself even before I spoke with her, so she really had nothing to do with the issue. His response, as i mentioned, is that it was supposed to be painful; it was like a rebirth of sorts.
You're right, he may be too hard on me. And yes, I used to believe that these feelings had to come out, but now I don't believe that's possible; it will never happen unless they decide to come out on their own. I can't chase them anymore.
Thanks again for taking the time to write,
antigua
Posted by antigua3 on October 9, 2008, at 23:48:10
In reply to Re: Thank you everyone, posted by antigua3 on October 9, 2008, at 23:35:05
I wrote to you above, but forgot to put your names on them. So sorry!
antigua
Posted by antigua3 on October 9, 2008, at 23:55:37
In reply to Re: My T made me really cry today, posted by FindingMyDesire on October 9, 2008, at 23:26:50
Now, you made me cry. You're right. Writing is key to my soul and I don't know why a simple comment from an angry man would make me stop.
You're right; you found the words for me: I was crushed, and I haven't gotten over it. I can think of a lot of reasons why I haven't, but I haven't found the key to the drawer that holds my special pens and paper.Thanks for reminding me of what I love,
antigua
Posted by seldomseen on October 10, 2008, at 6:36:11
In reply to Thank you everyone, posted by antigua3 on October 9, 2008, at 17:15:25
So, I've read the entire thread.
I think there is a lot of merit in focusing on your life and not your therapy.
I also understand your desire to avoid painful transference with a therapist. It's definately a bittersweet feeling, there is no doubt about that.
And I gotta say, things certainly seem to be rough (understatement) in your current therapy/pdoc situation.
I don't know if you are being re-traumatized or not. But there is a certain amount of re-traumatizing that does occur during therapy. I think it gives us a chance to relive and "correct" the experience.
But keep in mind, I'm pretty much past that point in my therapy so I have the benefit of not being in the middle of it. It's easy for me to speak about it more analytically as I've processed most of the emotions surrounding it.
God, I can't tell you the number of times I threatened to quit. Actually did quit. Went back only to quit again. Finally quit for real and went back and ultimately stayed in therapy.
If therapy were easy, everyone would do it.
It was a pattern for me, things get rough and I get itchy feet. I found I can rationalize anything and really have to watch myself. I think I've missed a lot of opportunities because of that pattern.
Now, I ask myself if I see any way possible for the situation to improve. Can I take steps to help it improve. I also try and clarify what outcome I would want if I stayed in.
If I can come up with answers to any of those questions, I stay and work. If I can't then I leave.
I'm sorry you are in the middle of this, and so wish for you an easy road ahead.
Seldom.
Posted by antigua3 on October 10, 2008, at 9:53:48
In reply to Re: Thank you everyone » antigua3, posted by seldomseen on October 10, 2008, at 6:36:11
> So, I've read the entire thread.
>>well, I certainly appreciate that.
> I think there is a lot of merit in focusing on your life and not your therapy.>>I think I have been letting therapy run my life instead of living it fully. I only say that because I have devoted years at times to trying to resolve my feelings. Maybe now it's time to move on. I've learned an incredible amount and have turned my life around because of the caring therapy I've received. My T even helped me raise my kids.
>
> I also understand your desire to avoid painful transference with a therapist. It's definately a bittersweet feeling, there is no doubt about that.
>>I don't even consider this an option. It would take up too much space in my life, no matter how caring a male T I could find.> And I gotta say, things certainly seem to be rough (understatement) in your current therapy/pdoc situation.
>>You're right; that's an understatement. But I don't know how much is me (probably most of it) and how much is him. We all have our limitations.
> I don't know if you are being re-traumatized or not. But there is a certain amount of re-traumatizing that does occur during therapy. I think it gives us a chance to relive and "correct" the experience.
>>I agree, except I am (or was) looking for a corrective emotional experience and I don't feel like I'm getting that. Emotional is key here. A lot of the CBT stuff has been incredibly helpful and I do carry that with me every day.
> But keep in mind, I'm pretty much past that point in my therapy so I have the benefit of not being in the middle of it. It's easy for me to speak about it more analytically as I've processed most of the emotions surrounding it.
>>I'm glad you've been able to resolve your issues. Like I've said, I think I've reached the point that I can go as far as I can go w/o real damage being done.
> God, I can't tell you the number of times I threatened to quit. Actually did quit. Went back only to quit again. Finally quit for real and went back and ultimately stayed in therapy.
>>Ditto. I've quit and gone back so many times. Maybe enough is enough.> If therapy were easy, everyone would do it.
>>I've never expected it to be easy because I know it's not.
> It was a pattern for me, things get rough and I get itchy feet. I found I can rationalize anything and really have to watch myself. I think I've missed a lot of opportunities because of that pattern.
>>I think this is more than itchy feet. I know what that feels like. I have to question/balance whether this therapy w/my pdoc is hurting or helping me at this point. Maybe I'm in the middle and need to push forward, but I'm not sure I can succeed in this case. I want to win this battle w/him, but when I recognize it as a battle, that's a warning sign for me. Also, as someone pointed out, I defend him and that is another warning sign because it is reminiscent of my behavior with my father. I've defended him my whole life, and I've been wrong.> Now, I ask myself if I see any way possible for the situation to improve. Can I take steps to help it improve. I also try and clarify what outcome I would want if I stayed in.
>>For me, the outcome would be to get out as gracefully as possible. I wonder if I will miss him and/or long for him. I haven't carried certain feelings over to him that I would have expected--love, sexual, etc.--and I've always considered that a plus. But I have to be on the lookout to see if that changes. Also, I can't keep beating my head against the wall.Maybe surrender is the right course of action. Surrender to his approach, instead of fighting it. We seem to have better results when I cede the battle. Maybe it's just part of the natural course, but at this point I feel it's dangerous to continue.
> If I can come up with answers to any of those questions, I stay and work. If I can't then I leave.
>>I don't have the answers. All I know is that it hurts, and truthfully, this is not how I expected it to go. I expected more help working through the pain, and not to feel so alone. But he doesn't offer that helping hand; he reverts to CBT, which as I've said a million times, has its benefits.Let me try this. I like to view the world as a kind place, and I have built-in a constant faith in humanity to keep me going. I know evil exists in this world--I've experienced it--but my overall outlook is that people are kind. Here's a simple example. I saw a horrific car wreck the other day where an SUV landed on its hood, all crushed in, windows had exploded out and there was a family's life strewn across the road--blankets, juice boxes, kid's books, etc. By the time I got next to the accident, there was a young boy of about 7 or 8 standing next to the car, trying the door handles to get out his mother, I'm assuming. She was probably on her way to dropping him off at school and had run the light.My first instinct was to reach for my phone to call 911, but I could see that the person in the other car was already out and doing that. I didn't stop because so many people had jumped out of their cars to help. And a police car happened to be right there. All I could do was move on and pray that the person(s) trapped in the car were OK. But I was struck by how many people stopped to help. That's the kind of world I want to live in. Not cynical or unkind. And as I kept going, the thought popped into my mind that if that had been me trapped in that car, and my pdoc had come along, he wouldn't have stopped to help me because it would have interfered w/my therapy. Now I know that's quite a jump, but I don't feel his therapy is kind or caring, no matter his orientation. It's just basic kindness and faith in this world that I believe in, and his therapy doesn't seem to follow that course. It's ugly, hurtful and I'm on my own.
> I'm sorry you are in the middle of this, and so wish for you an easy road ahead.
>>Thank you. It won't be an easy road, but I'm used to that. I know all male pdocs aren't unkind and uncaring, and IRL I don't think my pdoc really is that way; it's just his orientation and rigidity. I don't think he has ever treated someone like me before and doesn't see the nuances that are there.One last thing I'd like to mention. I said somewhere above that I didn't want to be on meds my whole life. What I meant is anti-anxiety meds. According to my pdoc, because of my history of depressive episodes, I will probably be on anti-depressants the rest of my life. My T doesn't necessarily agree, but I didn't want anyone to think I was anti-meds. They have played a huge part in my recovery. I just don't want to be so close to the edge anymore.
antigua
>
>
>
>
>
>
Posted by rskontos on October 10, 2008, at 12:49:40
In reply to Re: More (long) **Trigger** » rskontos, posted by antigua3 on October 9, 2008, at 23:45:22
Antigua,
I do understand completely how you feel. I sometimes feel that way and go back and forth between feeling like I will ever feel differently than I do at the present. I feel like I will be the way I am now always and I am not sure that my p-doc can fix me. I think he too finds me a challenge and wants to fix me. I used the money card to end therapy. He went one up on me to say well ok, no money now you can't quit. So if I end therapy I must do it via a different means. I told him I felt I was just going to be this way. I can't get to the deeper inner isssues either. I know things were bad, I know the surface bad things but not the nightmare itself. I dissociated too badly and have no memories left of my own. I have physical memories but no visual if that makes sense. I started having flashbacks, got scared to the depths of my soul and they have the flashbacks have scaled back with meds.
So I completely understand. I often just babble with p-doc to avoid. So if he wants to waste his time, fine by me.
So when I say we worked it out we have to some extent to some extent I just babble.
I understand the rebirth remark of his. Maybe not sure I agree but I guess I get what they mean.
Maybe it is not possible or even necessary for those feelings to come out. Maybe they are too buried. I do understand not chasing them. I am trying to live a life outside of therapy.
Good luck with your decision. Take care of yourself.
You deserve peace.
rsk
Posted by JayMac on October 10, 2008, at 17:34:18
In reply to My T made me really cry today, posted by antigua3 on October 8, 2008, at 20:09:32
Antigua, I can really feel what's going on with you. I am so glad that you have a T who is understanding and LOVING. How wonderful! =)
Many hugs to you!!!!!!!!!!
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Psychology | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.