![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 39. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by antigua3 on October 8, 2008, at 20:09:32
I'v learned to open up more in therapy and there certainly have been times when I've let an easy cry out; not the sobbing kind, but a gentle release when something we discuss really hurts. for me, tears mean progress, and always invite something new to talk about.
I've been having a really difficult time w/my pdoc's orientation. BTW, I often cry during these sessions, which is unusual for me. (My pdoc is very CBT, very strict boundaries) and a lot of painful things have come up that I really haven't been able to handle. Today my T asked me why I wanted to continue w/him.
I receive no comfort or caring from him; no call me if you need me, but he has called back twice when I wanted to clarify something we'd discussed.
I don't contact him outside of therapy anymore because I've never been encouraged to do so. I also haven't been able to write anything signficantly since he called what I wrote "b*llsh*t" when I accused him of something he didn't like. I know it's ridiculous to give him this power over me, but it has stopped my writing in its tracks, which is a huge issue for me.
I deal with the crises he brings forth by discussing them w/my T.
My pdoc is much much focused on my behavior, how to change it and pull myself up by my bootstraps. He's right in many ways and he has been helpful. but now he's making me bleed out emotionally, and I'm questioning his orientation that requires such strict boundaries. When I ask for reassurance, he tells me how great i"m doing (yeah, right; if he would only listen to my truths.) I want him to reassure me he won't abandon me, and he's vested in our relationship. He told me last night that if he was vested in the relationship, the therapy won't work. He's probably right because I would just fall in love w/him.
But only under duress and great apprehension will he admits he 'cares' --never saying he cares about me, specifically, but just that he caresss. He claims to use a variety of orientations, but I don't know. I understand the 5-yr-old girl needs to grow up, but does every realization have to be so painful and cruel? He doesn't see it this way, at all, BTW, he sees it as progress that I respond to present day circumstances, based on the integration with the chid with what I've learned in therapy about dealing effectively with my past. But doesn't the 5-yr-old have to be healed first? I'm so confused. He has always pulled for integration, and at times I agree fully, but hese feelings are so tough, I don't see her leaving anytime soon.
But anyway, my T and I discussed this at length this morning, and she asked what would be the benefit of continuing. I replied that I wanted to work through this issues w/my pdoc so I don't respond this way to male authority figures anymore, that I can truly let the anger and feelings out about my father, which is one of my stated goals with my pdoc.
At the end of our conversation, I said, "I can't come next week" (we had been doing twice a month and then reverted back to weekly because there was too much going on emotinally and one session only allowed us to catch up and not make as much progress as we needed to.) I told her I couldn't come because I couldn't afford it w/losing my job and my insurance pays less that half of what she charges.
She asked if I hadn't gotten the message from my husband when I called to cancel last time because of finances. (My mental health finances are a huge issue with my DH). The message I had received from him, after he spoke with her, was that she said "Don't let the insurance get in the way of you coming."
I guess I wasn't clear on what she had said.
What she had tried to tell me (and my husband hadn't fully conveyed it; a little sabotage going on) was that she would accept whatever my insurance paid until I got back on my feet.
I was stunned by her kindness. "Why would you do that," I asked. "Because I love you," she said and we both cried. "And you are working so hard on your therapy right now that I don't want to interrupt it."
I cried and there were definite tears in her eyes. She hugged me and I left.
I should add that my pdoc has been totally unwilling to cut his outrageous rate. It's just one of his boundaries. He did roll back his 3% 2008 increase for me, and said that he charges me less than new clients. That said, he still costs about twice as much as my T.
So I have free therapy w/my T until I can afford it. What a blessing to have that weight lifted from my shoulders, especially in dealing with financial issues with my DH. He can't resent me going because it isn't costing us anything.
I love her and don't know what I would do w/o her.
Sorry this is so long, but I'm having a lot of trouble in therapy, especially in what my pdoc is bringing forth (transference) about my father. Everything feels so evil, unsafe and even dangerous with him, and he is not the type to offer any type of outside the boundaries support.
Thanks for listening. Just wanted to say there are wonderful Ts out there.
antigua
Posted by TherapyGirl on October 8, 2008, at 20:38:25
In reply to My T made me really cry today, posted by antigua3 on October 8, 2008, at 20:09:32
What an excellent T you have, Antigua. I'm not so sure about your pdoc, but trust that you are working through what you need to with him.
Your T story makes me a little sad, but mostly it reminds me how lucky we are to have fabulous Ts in our lives.
Posted by obsidian on October 8, 2008, at 21:56:45
In reply to My T made me really cry today, posted by antigua3 on October 8, 2008, at 20:09:32
yeah, pdoc would freak me out too
I need a little bit of warmth, anybody who gets close to me has to be really nice
otherwise I just get a bit paranoid
Posted by Dinah on October 8, 2008, at 23:09:45
In reply to My T made me really cry today, posted by antigua3 on October 8, 2008, at 20:09:32
That is so sweet. Some therapists really do care.
Her attitude does stand in stark relief to his.
I'm sure you already have heard my opinion about your pdoc so I won't repeat it. If you're finding it useful that's what matters. You have more courage than I do. I couldn't have tolerated it at all.
I can't remember if you've answered this already, but does the relationship between the three of you echo the relationship between you and your father and your mother? Is your therapist similar to your mother? Or maybe how you wish your mother would have been in your struggles with your father?
I was just wondering. I'm not sure you'll ever get the response you want from your pdoc, due to who he is not who you are. But you are getting the response that a good mother should give in those situations (well, if the good enough mother chose that man to father her children anyway). Is it possible that you are getting what you need? Just not from the person you think you're trying to get it from?
Posted by DAisym on October 8, 2008, at 23:44:05
In reply to Re: My T made me really cry today » antigua3, posted by Dinah on October 8, 2008, at 23:09:45
Antigua, I love your therapist. Your post made me cry hard too.
I'm sure you've explored this but I have to wonder if you are punishing yourself with this pdoc somehow - I think Dinah asks really good questions. Working stuff through is very different than being retraumatized. This borders on that.
And yet, I keep wondering if you aren't looking to explode -- so that all the stuff that remains hidden will burst forth. And perhaps your pdoc feels like the right catalyst for that. He ignites things within you - recreating those feelings that you had with your dad, which definately presents an opportunity to do things differently this time. Including allowing a mom (your T) to take care of you.
I find myself furious at your pdoc for stealing away your writing. I also wonder what part of you the writing represents and why it needs his approval. I desperately want you to take this part back. Writing is in your soul and no matter what he says, your passion comes through in all your writings. "Screw him," I want to scream. Writing is like breathing - nobody can tell you to stop doing it. (I know, I know, he didn't tell you to stop.)
You are doing such deep work. I know it is hard, but keep going. You amaze me.
Posted by antigua3 on October 9, 2008, at 6:37:54
In reply to Re: My T made me really cry today, posted by TherapyGirl on October 8, 2008, at 20:38:25
Thank you TherapyGirl, and your T will be back soon. Today, is it? Try not to expect too much, just soak up what you need. You are both going to need time to "re-enter" your own therapy zone. And please tell her how you've felt during her absence; it's OK, she can handle it, otherwise she wouldn't be back yet.
Good luck,
antigua
Posted by antigua3 on October 9, 2008, at 6:45:59
In reply to Re: My T made me really cry today » antigua3, posted by obsidian on October 8, 2008, at 21:56:45
I've tried not to get paranoid, because I KNOW that it's not all about me, with all due respect. I'm sure he treats everyone this way. But from what I can gather, he doesn't do therapy w/a lot of people; he's known more for his pharmacalogical knowledge. But there is the same guy after me all the time. I've never seen another woman there, unless she has been with her child. He's well-known for treating disabled or troubled children, and in that work he has told me that he works w/setting boundaries for these kids and parents a lot. Mostly the parents!
So sometimes I think we're the ying and the yang. Once we reached a common place, but to do so I had used a positive child-rearing experience while he had used a negative one IMO. It was interesting.
I'll be nice to you, I promise.
thanks for your response,
antigua
Posted by antigua3 on October 9, 2008, at 7:01:26
In reply to Re: My T made me really cry today » antigua3, posted by Dinah on October 8, 2008, at 23:09:45
>
> I'm sure you already have heard my opinion about your pdoc so I won't repeat it. If you're finding it useful that's what matters. You have more courage than I do. I couldn't have tolerated it at all.
>
>>I would like your opinion; it would be useful at this time because my pdoc and I have made a lot of progress since you last told me, and maybe I need to hear it again.> I can't remember if you've answered this already, but does the relationship between the three of you echo the relationship between you and your father and your mother? Is your therapist similar to your mother? Or maybe how you wish your mother would have been in your struggles with your father?
>
>>Yes, this triangular relationship mirrors my growing up experience to some extent. But you added something I hadn't considered. The "maybe how you wish your mother would have been in your struggles". Maybe that's true; the first part certainly is and it has been helpful to use this dynamic to work it out. My T has been a first-class mother to me.> I was just wondering. I'm not sure you'll ever get the response you want from your pdoc, due to who he is not who you are.
>>I know this absolutely, and working through this is so important to me. Maybe too important? I certainly see him as the evil father now, but I'd like to get past that. Every person in life has limitations and I have to get past wanting something I can't have, or at least resolving it so I can live in this world. I don't want this to contiuously dog me the rest of my days. I learned how to accommodate this w/my T--she can't fill every need, but what she does do (and would do more if I let her) is tremendous.
<(well, if the good enough mother chose that man to father her children anyway).>
>>Can you explain what you mean by this?
>Is it possible that you are getting what you need? Just not from the person you think you're trying to get it from?
>>What a great reply. Hadn't thought of this, but I started doing adjunct therapy when my T and I seemed blocked. See, a lot has to do with me not being able to be real with her when it comes to my own mother, meaning letting the anger out. Letting the anger out is my ultimate goal. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think that's what I need to succeed. I can't go around having this overly loving feelings toward a man who essentially ruined my life.
Thank you Dinah for such a thoughtful response.
antigua
Posted by antigua3 on October 9, 2008, at 7:24:44
In reply to Re: My T made me really cry today, posted by DAisym on October 8, 2008, at 23:44:05
>
> I'm sure you've explored this but I have to wonder if you are punishing yourself with this pdoc somehow - I think Dinah asks really good questions. Working stuff through is very different than being retraumatized. This borders on that.
>
>>You hit the nail on the head, Daisy. I said the same thing this week, that I thought I was being retraumitized, instead of being healed. He said it's like a rebirth. It's painful, but I have to look at the results. I'm so much better off than when I started therapy with him and that's true; there is no denying that, and I will add (now that Dinah has pointed it out) that using my T to help me work through these issues has been key.I tried to explain how much this is hurting and I don't think he thought it was this bad. But remember, it's so bad because I'm filtering this through my experience as a 5-yr-old.
> And yet, I keep wondering if you aren't looking to explode -- so that all the stuff that remains hidden will burst forth. And perhaps your pdoc feels like the right catalyst for that. He ignites things within you - recreating those feelings that you had with your dad, which definately presents an opportunity to do things differently this time. Including allowing a mom (your T) to take care of you.
>>Again, you're right. This is what I want, but maybe I'm wrong about exploding.Argh, even that word triggers me, with all its connotations.
>
> I find myself furious at your pdoc for stealing away your writing. I also wonder what part of you the writing represents and why it needs his approval. I desperately want you to take this part back. Writing is in your soul and no matter what he says, your passion comes through in all your writings. "Screw him," I want to scream. Writing is like breathing - nobody can tell you to stop doing it. (I know, I know, he didn't tell you to stop.)>>As you said, he didn't make me stop, I stopped on my own based on his reaction. The only writing I ever do is on here now. Exploring why I've given that power doesn't get me far; he focuses on why I would give him that power, even though he knows how agonizing it is for me. We're working on it, but it's part of letting go, too.
>
> You are doing such deep work. I know it is hard, but keep going. You amaze me.>>No, you amaze me. Same journey, such different approaches at different stages. I always learn from you and your therapy.
antigua
Posted by TherapyGirl on October 9, 2008, at 7:45:39
In reply to Re: My T made me really cry today » TherapyGirl, posted by antigua3 on October 9, 2008, at 6:37:54
Soon, but not today. Another week to go. I ended up leaving her a message last night. I can't underestimate the effect the whole mouse thing is having on my anxiety level. I really am all coped out.
But I'll think about you and your T and imagine being able to sit in a room with my T again and get hugs from her.
Posted by antigua3 on October 9, 2008, at 8:16:55
In reply to My T made me really cry today, posted by antigua3 on October 8, 2008, at 20:09:32
I'm sorry, but I have to keep talking about my pdoc.
This week:
1. The previous session, I was angry at him for letting me leave in such a precarious state. I asked him, "How could you let me leave feeling like that?" I felt like I had disintegrated right in front of him, we had gone so deep, and he didn't patch me up before I left (like my T does). And I felt so alone--he didn't say, "Call me, etc." or schedule another appt. I threw it at him that to me, that meant I wasn't important to him, and I meant also that I felt it was irresponsible of him (didn't have the guts to say that, though).He replied, "You didn't disintegrate, you're here today." He meant it in a positive way that I had used my own resources to survive, and had learned, again, that I can do it.
I told him that it was dangerous for me to be left that way. He questioned what "dangerous" meant and we discussed the rational part of wanting to die vs. the irrational, which he said I was experiencing. I said it wasn't the rational I was worried about; it was the irrational, impulsive actions I take. It's like what do I have to do to get his attention? What did I have to do to get my father's attention?
I told him he was minimizing my feelings and he respected that.
2. I told him that a few days earlier I had been really angry at him for how he'd left me (like the way my father left me in a disgusting mess after his visits, I see today). While I was ruminating over being so angry w/him, POOF, it came to me that I wasn't angry at him, I was angry at my father.
He thought this was incredible insight. Told him they're a dime a dozen. But it did stop me from going in "in attack mode." But I didn't know how much of my reaction was in response to my father and the actual truth of how he had treated me. I have a very hard time with this--delineating between what is real about him and his approach and the tangled web of what it brings up. So this is why I questioned his approach.
He says we have a cycle to our therapy where I open up, come back on the attack and we work through the rupture. I didn't want him to perceive me as coming in on the attack because I'd made the connection w/my father, but these were important things that needed to be discussed. How I respond to male authority figures, and when it's appropriate to stand up to them and not react on the past. I think maybe that it was just a more sophisticated form of attack. He said it was good because I hadn't exploded in emotion w/him, we were talking rationally. But that's what I need to do, I cried, and he seemed surprised. He made it sound like I respond this way IRL, exploding that is, and I told him, No, I never, ever do that. I can explode w/my DH, but I never yell at my children. Im not even impatient with store clerks anymore! He told me it must be hard to hold that anger, and I said yes, I stuff it down.
So, I don't know if he got it or not, but he seemed surprised, even though I've discussed the need to get this out forever. He thinks it should be let out slowly, like a leaking faucet, and maybe he's right. "Explosion" is all I know w/men.
3. I explained that my experience of therapy was that it was circle, with both the T and the patient inside those strong outside boundaries; nothing can penetrate those boundaries. The unconditional aspect of it to me is that Im safe w/in those boundaries. W/him, I said I feel like hes a self-contained unit w/in that circle (that I cannot penetrate, nor will he let me; the self-containdness represents his boundaries) and that there is a hole in that circle where things can fall out that I have to deal w/on my own. I feel like I have no safety net w/him. He said the hole is good because I have to break that circle to continue making progress. Thats when he made the comment that it was like a rebirth. It was interesting, and I can see his point of view, that I am the one who has to learn how to handle the break in the circle so that I can survive better IRL. In some ways, it was a swipe at my therapy w/my T, but I understood it and recognized the value.
But is it too much? Im the only one who knows that answer, I recognize that, and thats why I discuss this w/my T. In my mind, has this turned to abuse? And retraumatization? Am I on the right track?
4. He said something interesting at the end. I noticed he was trying to tie the session up all nicely so I wouldnt leave like I had last time. But that made me mad; it was too obvious. (As he says, its a Catch-22 for him; he cant say anything nice because I mock him. I said, how can you feel like Ive mocked you when you say that we have no relationship? Youve said again and again that our therapy has nothing to do w/our relationship, because in fact we do not have a relationship according to him. He is simply driving the bus).
As I was leaving, he mentioned he would be away for a while, but back for our next session. (I like the guy who is covering for him and often wondered when I had the choice to go with either man, I chose the wrong one.) I spat at him, why are you even telling me youre going to be gone? It makes no difference. And you know what he said? Well, in case you wanted to leave me some words on my voice mail He used the exact word words, not tell me something, etc.
So, he tried and I rejected him. He had asked me what I wanted that I wasnt getting and I had made it clear that I wanted psychological comfort. He said that was a broad term and could I be more specific. I said, Reassurance. But then he defined the term differentlyhe defined it as support, and tried to tell me how great I was doing, etc. I guess I sort of lied. I wanted reassurance that he wasnt going to abandon me, and that he cared.
So sorry for being so long, but Im in such a struggle,
antigua
Posted by Dinah on October 9, 2008, at 10:05:24
In reply to Re: My T made me really cry today » Dinah, posted by antigua3 on October 9, 2008, at 7:01:26
> <(well, if the good enough mother chose that man to father her children anyway).>
>
> >>Can you explain what you mean by this?I think that probably came from my own insecurities about being a mother.
Posted by Nadezda on October 9, 2008, at 10:10:34
In reply to More (long) **Trigger**, posted by antigua3 on October 9, 2008, at 8:16:55
Antigua,
I know you've had these feelings about your pdoc for a long time. There's something tying you to him and, in a way, I don't want to question that, because it's hard to evaluate or know what's really going on emotionally with a relationship.
I get the feeling that you do go to him because he treats you like your father did-- in a symbolic way-- and you had some need to reexperience that. Is it really helpful though? Do you believe you couldn't reexperience the emotions of your relationship with your father with someone who's more overtly caring (not through saying, I care-- but acting in a way that says I care-- in many spoken and unspoken ways)? I do wonder if you aren't replaying some type of trauma of your mistreatment by your father, and wish for a good mother who will make it better and take care of you. It feels as if a pdoc who had boundaries, but less strict ones, or who was able to say, I'm invested-- but the boundaries are important--and who gave you enough to hold you between meetings-- would be a positive force.
You defend your pdoc-- but is it truly a constructive relationship, or, rather, one that meets the need to remain connected to an unhelpful or even hurtful father? Someone with whom you could experience angry feelings while repairing the anger, not simply repeating it? Is it truly the most useful thing to go through this with your pdoc and have to have your T pick up the pieces? It's not that I don't think this issues you address with him are important-- but let me just ask: do you feel that you're making progress with *him*-- through him-- ? or only because he evokes the angry and hurt feelings-- which then are taken to your T, who helps you contain them?
I think that moment when you say "he tried and I rejected him" is also part of the cycle with him. I feel as if, even if he hasn't said that per se-- you've been though this-- where you feel that somehow there's a small chance for things to change, and you cling to that,, and blame yourself because you didn't grasp this fleeting hope-- But I question whether there was a solid chance there, or only a chimera that appears and disappears in a way that only keeps you hooked in.
So I do have to really wonder if you are on the right track with him. I get the feeling that you wonder that a lot-- but maybe without really taking it quite seriously enough.
But it's wonderful-- very-- that your T is so dedicated and loving, and that you find the sort of warmth and caring, and softness that you need. I'm touched to hear that--because it shows how deep the commitment is, and how meaningful the work is to her, as well as you, and that's a beautiful thing.
Nadezda
Posted by antigua3 on October 9, 2008, at 11:29:55
In reply to Re: My T made me really cry today, posted by Dinah on October 9, 2008, at 10:05:24
No, I'm serious. I don't understand what you mean by this. I'm a little dense...
Thanks,
antigua
Posted by Dinah on October 9, 2008, at 12:48:24
In reply to Re: My T made me really cry today » Dinah, posted by antigua3 on October 9, 2008, at 11:29:55
I know you're serious. I just realized I probably shouldn't have said it because it was my issue, not generalizable I think.
I have a hard time holding onto the big picture, and when my husband is stressed, he becomes critical and hard to live with. My therapist explains it as his way to feel more in control when he feels out of control elsewhere. It upsets my son a lot, because my son is already pretty self critical.
At those times, I think to myself that I can't be a good enough mother because I chose my husband to be the father of my child, and that disqualifies me as a good enough mother. Of course most of the time he's a terrific father, so all of that is nonsense. I can't think of anyone I'd rather have as the father of my child.
And it's never something I think about anyone else, just myself.
I was tired and stressed last night and added my own personal issue about myself to my post, is all.
Posted by rskontos on October 9, 2008, at 13:38:42
In reply to More (long) **Trigger**, posted by antigua3 on October 9, 2008, at 8:16:55
Antigua,
I really can relate in way to your posts about your p-doc. Now for me my p-doc is also my therapists. But I have to tell you, my p-doc did for me what your T did for you. I was having anxiety about paying for therapy with him being out of network and then in May, I had used what little they did pay. I told him I just couldn't come anymore until it kicked back in. He said, like your T, don't let that get in the way of progress. I did not assume that meant free, I wasn't sure. Two sessions went by and I told him I was struggling to pay his may or june bill and would have to do it in payments. He said, how about we just forget about it for now? I too said, why would you do that? My own father would not help me like this. He said because I was worth it and he felt like his time was well spent in helping me. If he had enough time and consistency he felt he could help me tremendously. It took me three sessions and a great deal of thinking to process this and what it meant.
Now my p-doc and I don't talk about personal stuff unless I bring it up. He isn't exactly warm and fuzzy but he isn't cold either. I feel like he probably knows too much talk about feelings from him would be a real touchy thing for me. Your p-doc sounds somewhat like mine. Mine has called me on my perceptions at times. He pushes sometimes and doesn't sometimes. I don't know it works because my parents both were lousy parents. I had a bad childhood. My flashbacks are coming back and I am scared of them. He knows. He helps me acknowledge my feelings which for me is a bigger. Somehow he knows just enough to be real to me, too much and I will run. He says to me, that I will probably try to run from him again. It is to be expected as more comes out to the surface.
So I understand a p-doc's frame of reference. I believe for me it helps me more. Now maybe yours is something that is too hard on you. But these feelings, do you think they need to come out. The things he gets out of you, are they necessary deep down to your well-being. You should have a gut instinct regarding that.
My p-doc too has left me in a precarious state. I have cried afterwards and be in dissociative states after leaving him. So he now tries hard not to do that.
From my point of view, you too do seem to have a relationship that is working on some level. I mean at least you do tell him what he is doing that upsets you, how his treatment makes you feel and how sometimes his behavior relates or makes you feel like your father did. Isn't that what therapy is about uncovering what is holding you back and helping you work through it?
I do understand how you want reassurance from him. It is a different relationship, working relationship than your t. One that is less nurturing it would seem but maybe the two are working in sync to help you get to this deeper place.
Have you thought about it becoming more abusive prior to your T questioning of the relationship or did she initiate this questioning? To me that is important. If you have been wondering prior to her thoughts, then is it vital you tell him how you feel. That you are wondering if this isn't trauma all over again.
I did this with my p-doc. I told him I thought this was retraumatizing. We worked it out. Maybe you need to really get that out to your p-doc and see how he deals with that information.
I just wanted to present a case for some good p-docs like mine that although he has high fees too, he is treating me right now for free and has been since May. I am still amazed. It is hard to wrap my mind around it actually.
Good luck, Antigua.
I know this is a struggle and a difficult one. One part of me thinks you have really gotten to a deeper part that is necessary. I feel I have to get further into a place I don't want to go but I know I need to. But it sounds like you are hurting and you need to discover if you have gone too far or not.
(((((((((((((Antigua)))))))))) I am sorry this is so long. I trust you can just tune me out if I don't make sense. And I hope I was too intrusive myself in my opinions.
rsk
Posted by lucie lu on October 9, 2008, at 15:52:29
In reply to My T made me really cry today, posted by antigua3 on October 8, 2008, at 20:09:32
Antigua,
I agree with what others have said, but this thread has also stirred up some self-reflection as well.
First of all, I had a big lump in my throat when I read the part about your T. I felt physically warmed by your story, as if someone had put an arm around me. But the part about your pdoc, particularly regarding the writing ban (I write too, although you wouldnt know it from many of my posts), made me furious. I am slowly learning to count to ten before criticizing other peoples Ts, even when they are being complained about. Having said that I am not a real fan of tough-love therapy, and his approach seems to me like trying to cure PTSD by returning to the front lines to get shot at. OK, Ill own that criticism.
But I became aware that the thread was generating a lot of feelings within me, love, fury, resentment, a sense of unfairness, and as I began to look at how so many strong reactions were being triggered, I realized how much your situation was resonating within me. And I wont even start with the triangulation.
Anyway, I guess I cant be much help because I obviously am not able to see your pdoc, or your relationship with him, with anything remotely resembling objectivity. If you feel you are making progress with him that couldnt be made any other way, then it must be working, and you are the best judge of that. I do think that his treatment borders on re-traumatization but due to my own bias, I couldnt tell you which side of the border it remains on. And I adore your T.
Hugs,
Lucie
Posted by antigua3 on October 9, 2008, at 17:15:25
In reply to More (long) **Trigger**, posted by antigua3 on October 9, 2008, at 8:16:55
Wow, this is so painful and hurtful. I spent the day hiding in bed, which I havent done in months.
I appreciate everyones replies. They were honest and insightful, and what I asked foran outsiders opinion of my therapy w/my pdoc. While everything Ive written is just from my perspective, I thats all that counts.
I have been seeing my pdoc for therapy for about a year (for meds a total of three or four years). Hes the one who suggested we pursue therapy, and I agreed.
I am embarrassed, no, ashamed to admit that since beginning therapy w/him, I now realize that I have been running to mommy to tell on daddy. I never had that as a kid. But Im not sure its helpful, because it doesnt mirror what was actually going on. Its time to stop.
It has been suggested to me by other people and professionals that Ive been in therapy w/my T for too long, that Ive gone as far as I can with her, and that Im afraid to leave the nest. Its true, and its time to grow up.
My pdoc can never give me what I want due to his orientation and the limitations of his own capabilities. You cant force someone to care about you, although in many respects I think he does. I want him to provide me with the same cocoon my T provides, and that is not possible.
While I am desperate to find out what the fear and terror is that lurks underneath me every day, one that keeps my hypervigilant and makes me jumpy at the sound of even the slightest noise. I live my live clenched always, waiting, not relaxing unless it is by medication, which is not something I want to continue to do for the rest of my life.
I cant make the terror come forth; its humanely impossible. Ive tried every way I know how and Im going to have to live with my not knowing.
I will never, EVER enter therapy with another T, especially a male, because I dont want to fall in love and be consumed by feelings of transference. Its too painful, and I simply dont have the time. I need to be concentrating on my life, instead of my therapy.
So the question has been asked many times here: When is it enough? Heres my answer. This is enough. Ive been through the blender too many times, chopped into tiny pieces, pierced and pulled, and still dont have the answer I seek, or the relief from the underlying terror I live with every day.
The last question is to resolve the writing. Hopefully, I can find a way to do that.
Thanks again everyone,
antigua
Posted by Dinah on October 9, 2008, at 17:21:33
In reply to Thank you everyone, posted by antigua3 on October 9, 2008, at 17:15:25
That's absolutely in no way what I'd ever suggest, and not what I meant by what I wrote in any way.
I don't think you should leave your therapist at all. Or your pdoc if he's being helpful to you.
It doesn't sound to me as if you've gone as far as you can. You sound as if you've gone further than you were before even very recently.
I'm sorry if anything I wrote gave you that impression. It wasn't at all what I was thinking.
Posted by lucie lu on October 9, 2008, at 18:07:19
In reply to Re: Thank you everyone » antigua3, posted by Dinah on October 9, 2008, at 17:21:33
Antigua,
You sound overwhelmed :-( I'm sorry if I contributed to it with my own baggage. You wanted feedback about your pdoc, but it really cant be easy for you to integrate such feedback into a concrete, realistic plan for your therapy. And that's where you know more than anyone, including what your goals are. It sounds to me as though important goals have not yet been reached for you. I personally would not want to go through life with questions like that looming. Thats why Im in therapy.I can totally empathize with the conclusion you reached, sometimes that is mine as well, particularly when I am frustrated and hurting. But that is only one conclusion that can be reached from where you are. There are others. Its not black and white, there are shades of grey. You can accept those productive connections and realizations you have been making and not have them lead to a single inescapable conclusion. One thing you see all the time on Babble is the advice to take things slowly, in baby steps. Im sure you can figure out how to apply that to your situation. Also, you can take time out, take the time you need to re-equilibrate or just catch a breather. Things have been very intense for you lately, Antigua. Maybe you should focus on what feels good for you right now and not feel you have to make any major decisions just yet. I also wonder whether your DHs feelings about your therapy may be playing a role here. Are you feeling pressured?
Lets keep the conversation going...
(((((((((((((Antigua)))))))))))))))))
Love,
Lucie
Posted by lucie lu on October 9, 2008, at 18:08:59
In reply to Re: Thank you everyone » Dinah, posted by lucie lu on October 9, 2008, at 18:07:19
Posted by antigua3 on October 9, 2008, at 18:39:33
In reply to Thank you everyone, posted by antigua3 on October 9, 2008, at 17:15:25
Nobody said anything specifically to make me respond this way. It's the culmination of knowledge and understanding from so many quarters, so please, nobody should feel badly about this. I wrote this of my own volition and not based specifically on what anyone said.
You all have been honest and insightful, and I'm very grateful,
antigua
Posted by Dinah on October 9, 2008, at 21:54:57
In reply to Re: Thank you everyone » antigua3, posted by antigua3 on October 9, 2008, at 18:39:33
Please don't make any final decisions while you're feeling so upset. Maybe you can talk to your therapist and pdoc about it?
I really didn't mean that you triangulate in any bad way. I actually meant it in a good way. Not that you're telling stories to your therapist about your pdoc but that she is being a good enough mother to you.
And if you say your pdoc isn't as withholding as it may seem, I certainly believe that too. I can assure you that if my therapist were writing the story of our relationship on Babble, there is no way anyone would be able to connect my posts with his. I see our relationship through the viewpoint of my history and needs. He has on an entirely different set of spectacles.
Posted by TherapyGirl on October 9, 2008, at 22:23:48
In reply to Re: Thank you everyone » antigua3, posted by antigua3 on October 9, 2008, at 18:39:33
I'm sorry that it's so bad for you right now, Antigua. As usual, I don't have much helpful to say, except that you have been so helpful to me, especially in my T's absence. Whatever you decide, I hope you are just as supportive and wonderful towards yourself as you've been towards me.
((((((Antigua))))))
Posted by Nadezda on October 9, 2008, at 22:26:12
In reply to Thank you everyone, posted by antigua3 on October 9, 2008, at 17:15:25
Hi, Antigua. I'm sorry you're in so much pain over this.
But I wonder if you aren't punishing yourself now-- perhaps for telling on your father, if that is part of what's going on-- or in the belief that you "set yourself up" for this retraumatization with your pdoc. I don't know what this situation means, but it's not worth acting abruptly and sending yourself into further turmoil.
You really don't need to take any action. In the midst of a storm of feelings-- hurt, anger, self-blame and the rest-- is not a time to change things radically. It's a time to start to look at what's happened, at what you feel about it, at why it might have happened-- and then, over time, to come to the right decision.
It's not that you have to stop doing something, or needing something or all is lost; whatever has happened, has a reason-- and can be handled over time.
You certainly need your T;, and you may need this pdoc for a while, because you have in a very intense connection of some kind-- even if it's not good for you.
Whatever happened isn't entirely of your doing-- after all your pdoc offered to see you. I would see that as an impossible to refuse offer--under the circumstances-- for all sorts of reasons. I don't doubt that he had the best of motives; he may have thought his ability to help with boundaries would be useful. But I dont' think he has the temperament or the right approach for you-- not only as an individual-- but as someone who has very different issues-- and age-- from his usual patients.
If anything I would stay within the framework that you've created for yourself, where you're working with a T who cares about you a great deal, and, until you;re more comfortable and sure about ending it, with a pdoc who also cares, but may not be able to give what you need.
I very much hope that you can begin to write again-- and not let his limitations-- and his views-- keep you from expressing yourself in such an important way.
Whatever changes you need to make can't be make precipitously and and, to be in your best interests, should be prepared for, and shouldn't cause you so much pain.
Nadezda
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