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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 11 to 35 of 55. Go back in thread:
Posted by muffled on January 25, 2007, at 18:42:09
In reply to Re: what keeps you going? **suicide trigger, posted by caraher on January 25, 2007, at 18:25:12
Posted by ElaineM on January 25, 2007, at 19:57:46
In reply to Re: what keeps you going? **suicide trigger, posted by mair on January 25, 2007, at 16:55:40
A couple of things keep me going (some more healthy than others)
1. An overwhelming fear that (knowing my "luck") I'd somehow survive no matter how hard I tried, but suffer some terrible physical or mental damage that I'd have to contend with on top of everything that was bothering me bother before.
2. When I'm thinking of ending it because of physical pain, I often think of the children's hospitals full of little one's who have the same thing or way worse. I may not have lived the longest life, but look how much some of them have suffered through their's that's even smaller. (This is the one I'm holding in my mind the most right now)
3. A difficult one is, sometimes I have brief, moments when I think, what if there was gonna be a moment when i was truly happy? I find this one hard - it's the times when I find myself actually wishing I could be living, that it's hardest to tolerate feeling like I'm not alive, being where I'm at now, and my health. The "what if" manages to pop in once in awhile, it's kinda rare, but it makes me second guess. Sometimes it's watching a baby beside me on the bus, or a couple smiling at each other like no one else is around, or seeing a couple that reminds me of what my grandparents were like [It happened the other day, leaving my appointment. I watched the old man hurry to walk ahead of his wife so he could hold the glass door open for her :')It makes my heart want to burst sometimes] I hate that the same thing that makes me ache cause it's missing right now (and maybe forever), can also make me hope to live.
4. I think about how damn hard it was to do treatment three times, and be in recovery from the anorexia -- the hardest personal thing I've ever had to do up until now. So much physical discomfort to get healthy again, so much mental anguish. Do I want to make that all for nothing? Why did I do it if it was only to throw it away? I tell myself that it would mock how difficult the exerpience actually was if I throw the me that made it through (or strongly battling it now)away. [Also, when I was in treatment I was doing it for the possibility of maybe having a child one day. It doesn't seem likely now, but it was one of the "Reasons" then.]
5. (I have the hardest time with this one) Doing the palliative care for two of the few people I've ever truly loved in this world a year and a half ago. Watching them fight. Knowing they would've given anything to have even one more day of nothing-special, even one more cry, one more unassisted breath. It makes me feel selfish for thinking of throwing away something they were fighting so hard for - even though their life wasn't perfect or painfree before. It makes me feel ashamed that I could equal my suffering to their's (or anyone's) and that I'm the case where it "makes sense" to end your own life. I'm always always telling myself, "If they could fight the pain of dying, you can at least try a little harder to fight the pain of living." Another relative I lost three years ago asked me (while he was dying of cancer) to always keep fighting. I try really hard to try. God, it still hurts so much to think of. I don't want to disrespect their struggles. I want to prove how much I loved them by staying alive for them. I know it sounds crazy, but it makes sense in my head, or my heart, for some reason. I guess cause I'm alone right now, I live for people in my memory, the same way others live for people in their lives -- or something.
[When I'm suffering the most, and when I'm in so much pain that I'm able to even say "F it. I don't care" to the other 4 reasons, this is the one that gets me through. THis is the one that I have permanent mental pictures to re-enforce. And when I'm really bad I take out the last photos I ever took of them all]Keep fighting (((((Wishingstar)))))).
blove, El
Posted by wishingstar on January 25, 2007, at 22:25:47
In reply to Re: what keeps you going? **suicide trigger, posted by caraher on January 25, 2007, at 18:25:12
Wow. I really appreciate how many of you responded to this with your reasons. It is interesting to me to see the different reasons everyone has, the different things that people can hold on to that work for them. Regardless of the hard times we all go through from time to time, every one of you are so strong and amazing to me.
I'm just going to respond to a few things people mentioned in particular... I read and am thinking about every single one though.
Gee, your mention of a funeral reminded me of something I hadnt though of in awhile. In Oct 2005 a 7-year-old boy I danced with died in a house fire. I went to the funeral and it was one of the most difficult things I'd ever seen. Funerals, but especailly this one, always seem to have a similar effect on me. They take away the suicidal impulse and make death too real, but its temporary. Maybe that's something I need to hang on to, odd as that sounds. The reality factor.
Muffled, I just wanted to say that your words about nature and what you get from it are really beautiful. I'm so glad you have that.
Mair, I appreciate what you said about suicide being the most important decision you can make, and making sure it's right. That really hit me strongly and it helps.
Toojane, I've been in the hospital too, only briefly, but I know what you mean. I didnt feel totally human there. I dont blame you for not wanting to go back. I dont think theres a such thing as a good or bad thing to hang on to though. If thats what works for you right now, then that's great. It doesnt matter what it is, as long as it keeps you safe.
This has helped me to think some about what my reason could be. Like I said before, I think there has to be something stopping me, but what is it? I'm not sure. I'm going to keep thinking about it, but I think I'm startng to figure it out. I'll post again when I've thought about it more.
Thank you for sharing everyone.
Posted by wishingstar on January 25, 2007, at 22:37:24
In reply to Re: what keeps you going? **suicide trigger, posted by caraher on January 25, 2007, at 18:25:12
caraher,
wow. thank you for sharing this story. I've heard that argument a million times ("what if you fail...") but for some reason the way you put it struck me. I think I'm in a very vulnerable, open sort of place tonight and that may be why, but nonetheless. Thank you. If it's okay with you, I'm going to print this out and save it. I think it was really the last sentence that was really powerful for me... the other side of a moment I might regret forever.
In most ways, I know I am very lucky. I'm young, healthy (yes, you assumed correctly), well educated, okay financially, living in a safe area, a good T... situationally, I'm really doing quite well. You're right, there is no reason to expect that it wont get better, except that is just never has. I know that probably sounds silly coming from a 24 year old (how long can it have possibly been, right?) I've been severly depressed since I was about 16 - basically all of my late teen/adult life - so it is what I really remember I guess. I dont remember ever feeling like an adult (or young adult) and being "okay" so it's hard to see past it. I just have a hard time imagining anything different. I'm having a hard time seeing a reason it would change.
Plus, and this may be the biggest factor, I have to live with myself for the rest of forever. And that in itself is enough to make me want to jump off the nearest bridge. I'm so sick of myself. Eh.
But I have a feeling that last phrase will stick in my mind. Truly, thank you for sharing that with me.
Posted by Daisym on January 26, 2007, at 0:00:45
In reply to Re: what keeps you going? » caraher, posted by wishingstar on January 25, 2007, at 22:37:24
So often I feel alone, like I am the only person who thinks or feels certain things. And then I come here and read thoughts from my own mind...
You said, "I'm so sick of myself." I can't tell you how many times I've said that! I want to be someone, anyone, else for awhile.
I've posted that I've been struggling with thoughts of suicide pretty intensely the past couple of weeks. I started out being overwhelmed and frantic and now I've moved to a removed, cold and flat space. It feels better to not be frantic. I think somehow I'm underneath my tears, in a space of surrender and no hope. I am trying to talk about it to my therapist but it feel so inarticulate - like I'm dead already. It is scary to feel this and yet not at all.
He asked me today if I'd consider the hospital. I said absolutely not. I wanted to remain in control of my life until this passes or until...well, whatever. So what keeps me here? Those slender threads of responsibility - mostly to my son. And believe it or not, a promise. I promised my therapist I would call him and at least give him the chance to talk to me first. I can't begin to imagine calling him at that moment, so I don't get to that moment. Which makes no sense really. I just don't want to hurt him or leave him thinking there was anything he could have done different. So...I'm really mad at him tonight for extracting the promise.
Given everything going on over at Admin, I'm a little afraid to push the submit button on this post. Babble has helped me through some really tough spots, so it is hard not to reach out here. But I don't want to trigger or worry anyone either. The more I think about it, the more I know that this is a solitary decision and no one can really save you except you.
Posted by Dinah on January 26, 2007, at 9:16:36
In reply to Re: what keeps you going? » wishingstar, posted by Daisym on January 26, 2007, at 0:00:45
((((Daisy))))
Don't give a thought to Admin. If you feel like posting, post.
Oddly enough my reasons are more or less the same as yours. When I'm feeling really bad, I cling to them.
Posted by wishingstar on January 26, 2007, at 9:21:24
In reply to Re: what keeps you going? » wishingstar, posted by Daisym on January 26, 2007, at 0:00:45
Oh Daisy, I'm so sorry you're hurting so much right now.
I do know what you mean about being in a "removed, cold, flat" space, beyond tears. I have felt this exact same way recently, and you were able to put it into words. I feel a step or 2 behind everything mentally and nothing is really clicking anymore, including talking this out with Ginny. It's a very hard place to be.
I'm really glad your therapist made you give him that promise,, and that youre sticking to it. This may sound silly to say, but Daisy, I (we) do not want you to die. I understand how much pain you're in right now and how it's hard to see any better option. Unfortunately I cant really say what the better option is yet, but there has to be one there, or else people wouldnt come out of depression ever. And obviously they do.
You're right, it is a solitary decision and no one can actually save you. That's true. But people can support you and care about you. Sometimes it's helpful for me to just know people are there and ready to listen, even when I'm not in any mood to ask for support. Hopefully that knowledge helps you. I know there is a lot of crazy going on over at admin right now, and it has me a little afraid of my words as well, but please dont let that stop you from reaching out and asking for help or telling us how you're feeling. People will worry because they care about you, but personally, I'm okay with that and I can handle it. I'd rather know someone was hurting and maybe worry some than have no idea while they suffered in silence. Of course you're always more than welcome to babblemail me too if you'd like, if you dont want to post it all on the boards for whatever reason. But you've been here awhile and I'm sure you have other friends you already have babblemail relationships with.
I guess it's easier for me to sound hopeful for others right now, can you tell? It's easier to see things in others than it is in yourself I guess.
Regarding the hospital, I respect your decision and dont want to pressure you to do anything in the least. I've been looking into going back in for a weekend or 5 days or so, but to an all-psych hospital I think might be a little better than the psych unit I saw before. If you ever consider it even in the slightest, I'm happy to tell you more about my experience. But I can understand wanting to hold on to the responsibility for your own life. I just want whats best for you and for you to be happy.
Posted by Dinah on January 26, 2007, at 9:25:45
In reply to Re: what keeps you going? » caraher, posted by wishingstar on January 25, 2007, at 22:37:24
I wish I knew what to say. I have been in the same situation that you are, when I was a bit younger than you. I'd been miserable for years and couldn't imagine it getting any better. But it did. It got worse again, but every time it also got better again eventually.
And I suppose at my age, the rest of forever just doesn't seem as long as it used to. :/
You've got a good therapist now, and perhaps a different medication regimen would help a bit (and I *hate* meds, but meds got me through that awful postpartum period).
I wish I knew something helpful to say.
Posted by wishingstar on January 26, 2007, at 9:30:16
In reply to Re: what keeps you going? » Daisym, posted by wishingstar on January 26, 2007, at 9:21:24
I lay in bed last night and thought more about this... the things that are keeping me alive/ I think there are 2 things.
The first is Laurie, my old T. At our very last session, I was really a mess - very depressed and suicidal and just not able to hide it at all. For most of the session, I stared at the ground and she talked because I just couldnt. I remember, she said that my pain made her cry, and when I glanced up, she was wiping her eyes. And she said that she'd miss me if I died, if I was gone. I told her I thought she was the only one. I'm hold on to that. I believe her.
The second is harder to define. I think it's just stubbornness. I can be a very stubborn person, much to the dismay of my therapists. I think there is so small piece of me that I have trouble accessing that knows that I am a good person and I dont deserve this. It seems like no matter what I try, it just stays the same or gets worse. But I think my stubborn side just wont let that go. Is that hope? I dont know. It doesnt feel like hope. I really have very, very little hope that things will get better for me right now. But there is just something there. I guess I need to think about it some more.
Those are my reasons. I wish I had something like family or kids to hang on to, but I dont right now. I guess that's okay.
Posted by wishingstar on January 26, 2007, at 9:35:59
In reply to Re: what keeps you going? » wishingstar, posted by Dinah on January 26, 2007, at 9:25:45
Hi Dinah, looks like we're posting at the same time!
Thanks for your thoughts. I was discussing the "it will get better" thing with Ginny yesterday and the problem is... I do believe it will get better eventually. It always does. But I also believe that it'll crash again after that, as it always does. It's not that there arent good things in my life right now. I'm just not sure its worth it. Part of me would trade in the good things to get rid of the bad.
I'm still doing the meds thing. I'm supposed to restart cymbalta in a few days. I'd started it and it made me really sick to my stomach, and stopped it so I didnt have both going on while I had shingles. I've been on just about every SSRI known to man and several mood stabalizers, and none have even touched it so far, except for lamictal which made me worse. I have very little hope that cymbalta will work because I've been on so many that are similar, but we'll see. I think I may just be one of those people for whom meds just dont do it. I go back to the pdoc on 3 weeks.
But yes, Ginny is awesome. I am thankful to have gotten her.
Thanks for caring Dinah.
Posted by MidnightBlue on January 26, 2007, at 10:15:13
In reply to Re: what keeps you going? » wishingstar, posted by Daisym on January 26, 2007, at 0:00:45
Daisym,
You said:
> He asked me today if I'd consider the hospital. I said absolutely not. I wanted to remain in control of my life until this passes or until...well, whatever. So what keeps me here? Those slender threads of responsibility - mostly to my son. And believe it or not, a promise. I promised my therapist I would call him and at least give him the chance to talk to me first. I can't begin to imagine calling him at that moment, so I don't get to that moment. Which makes no sense really. I just don't want to hurt him or leave him thinking there was anything he could have done different. So...I'm really mad at him tonight for extracting the promise.
>
I've been there. I had the meds all counted out, but because I had PROMISED, I reached out and called my pdoc. The receptionist wouldn't put me through and he didn't call back. Desperate I called my pastor. For some miracle reason got right through. When I later saw my pdoc he was furious at the way his office had handled it and that person was fired.MidnightBlue
Posted by happykat on January 26, 2007, at 11:03:42
In reply to Re: what keeps you going? (my reasons), posted by wishingstar on January 26, 2007, at 9:30:16
wishingstar,
I made several attempts many years ago and can really relate to what you're going through. I think what ultimately pulled me out or kept me from going back was exactly what you have, stubborness. It's a quality that is self-preserving and highly underrated. I had just a sliver of stubborness and just the tiniest bit of will to fight. That's all I needed to eventually claw my way back out. (The appropriate meds also helped)
Also support from others who had been through the same helped. At the time I happened to work in the hospital where I was taken so when coworkers found out they came to see me. And I was overwhelmed by how many of them came to me and told me their own personal stories of tragedy and demons they had battled. Two of my coworkers had historys of depression and attempts and I had no idea.
I kept journals when I was in the hospital and I pulled them out last night after I read your post and reread them. If you're not already keeping a journal, it's a great thing to do so down the road when life is better you can see how far you've come. I'm grateful that I stuck around. I would have missed out on alot of wonderful experiences that were beyond comprehension back then. You truly don't know what tomorrow will bring. Hang in there!
Honor that sliver of stubborness inside yourself, let it help you pull yourself out of the pit. It's a slow process but it will happen.
Be well and Stay safe.
Regards,
happykat
Posted by Gee on January 26, 2007, at 11:40:59
In reply to Re: what keeps you going? (my reasons) » wishingstar, posted by happykat on January 26, 2007, at 11:03:42
When I was younger, I loved the idea of Diaries. Okay, maybe I should back up and say that every night before we went to bed, my mom would write in our "Calenders". It was kinda like a journal, but just on a regualar calendar. Looking back, it was a great way for my mom and I to connect on what we did over the day. As we got older it moved into little books, and this continued until I was maybe 14 or so.
But my Diary was always place just for me. I would write my inner most hurts and anxieties and accomplishements. I looked back at my Diary from when I was about 10-15 and it's not very happy. It makes me sad. As I got older I started writing a lot more.
Eventually I started keeping 2 journals. One for good things, and one for bad things. I've been trying to write something good or funny every night. It's such a pick me up to look back at the good times when I'm feeling low. Or I'll put a funny picture or something.
Posted by Gee on January 26, 2007, at 11:44:21
In reply to Re: what keeps you going? - to everyone, posted by wishingstar on January 25, 2007, at 22:25:47
Wishingstar,
I'm sorry you had to go through a funeral of such a little kid. That would have been so hard. The hardest part for me was when my friend's little sister (who was 2 at the time) kept saying "Cole? Cole?"
My friend was at home with her family for 2 months before her surgury. It was such a loss, but her death saved the rest of family from some sort of heart failure. I know that God had taken her for a reason, but it doesn't make it any easier.
Hang in there. You are here for a reason. It would such a loss to the PB community if you weren't around anymore.
Posted by caraher on January 26, 2007, at 12:42:46
In reply to Re: what keeps you going? (my reasons), posted by wishingstar on January 26, 2007, at 9:30:16
Stubbornness is good. Sometimes it gets in the way of positive changes, but it also helps you resist the negative. In a lot of cases I think beating depression is about deciding to be more stubborn than your disease.
Posted by philyra on January 26, 2007, at 14:39:48
In reply to Re: what keeps you going? (my reasons), posted by caraher on January 26, 2007, at 12:42:46
the greatest advice i got about my suicidal feelings was pretty blunt. a pdoc told me to think of them as a symptom of my depression, a signal that i must be feeling pretty bad.
for some reason, that's helped me hang on quite a bit. more even than thinking about family. i do this switch into objectification and it breaks the allure.
philyra
Posted by mair on January 26, 2007, at 15:52:24
In reply to Re: what keeps you going? » wishingstar, posted by Daisym on January 26, 2007, at 0:00:45
Daisy - when I first started obsessing about suicide, my T didn't even factor into the equation. It never occurred to me that she would care. Later, after I'd been seeing her for awhile, I discovered myself worrying about how it might affect her. At first, this was just annoying. Trying to go through the mental process of deciding whether or not to kill myself was confusing and tiring enough, without adding a new complication. When I'm not feeling so desparate, I view it as a good thing - an additional safety valve, that I feel a responsibility to this person.
The other thing I'd say is that while I've never been hospitalized, there have been a couple of times when my T has thrown it out there for discussion. When she first suggested it, I was pretty horrified and totally brushed her off. (so horrified that I went right back to my office and started researching the laws about involuntary hospitalizations). I posted something about it here, and a few people were able to relate positive experiences - at least enough for me to reconsider my kneejerk reaction.
When I was at my suicidal worst, what snapped me out of it was a meds change, and a ridiculously simple one at that. I didn't take a new drug, I just made the slightest modification to the way I was taking one of my drugs and it made this huge difference. I don't know what you're taking, if anything. Have changes been considered?
I'm concerned about the things you've been writing lately. I know you're pretty high functioning at work. I imagine it gets to be exhausting to be one person at work and maybe to your family, when you feel that you're an entirely different person otherwise. I certainly know how draining it can be to have this huge gulf between the interior you and the exterior you. It might not be such an awful thing to have people taking care of you for awhile.
And BTW - I've come to believe that the Admin Board can be the instrument of the devil - best ignored, particularly if when you're feeling vulnerable. It's much safer here.
mair
Posted by wishingstar on January 26, 2007, at 16:47:50
In reply to Re: what keeps you going? (my reasons) » wishingstar, posted by happykat on January 26, 2007, at 11:03:42
hapykat,
thanks for sharing your experience. I do know what you mean about the stubbornnes and I agree, I think it can be very self-preserving. Sometimes my T will get frustrated because I can be so stubborn, but it serves a huge function for me. Sometimes, it's very important, like when it comes to staying alive.
I was actually just looking through some of my old journals last night as well. I'm not sure if it helped, but it did remind me of some things I had forgotten. It made me thankful I'm not seeing Anne anymore. At the same time, it shows me how long I've been feeling this way (on and off) and that is less than inspirtational. But I do plan on keeping them . Maybe later on they will have more meaning for me.
It really is amazing how many people struggle with depression that we dont know about.
This post feels really poorly put together so I hope it makes sense. I'm just a little blah right now.
Posted by wishingstar on January 26, 2007, at 16:51:58
In reply to Re: what keeps you going? » wishingstar, posted by Gee on January 26, 2007, at 11:44:21
Gee, I love the idea of the positive and the negative journals you posted about in the last post. That's a great idea. I also love that you started so young with it (the calendar, etc). If I ever have kids, I'd like to do something like that with them. What a neat thing to be able to look back on, even if it's not all positive.
Yes, the funeral was very very hard. I didnt even know the boy that well and I cried my eyes out. The mother (a single parent) was absoluteiy distraught, could barely walk as the casket was being taken from the church. I cant even imagine the pain of that. I'm sorry for your loss as well. These things can be so hard.
I'm trying to hang in there. Thank you.
Have you ever seen www.despair.com? They have a poster that say something like "it may be that the purpose of your life is just to serve as a warning to others". Hah. I dont necessairly believe that about myself, but it just came to mind. It's a funny site, but you really have to be in the mood for it.
Posted by wishingstar on January 26, 2007, at 16:53:02
In reply to Re: what keeps you going? (my reasons), posted by caraher on January 26, 2007, at 12:42:46
> Stubbornness is good. Sometimes it gets in the way of positive changes, but it also helps you resist the negative. In a lot of cases I think beating depression is about deciding to be more stubborn than your disease.
>I agree. Being stubborn and persistant enough to hold on and keep fighting even when you're sick of it. That's what I struggle with I guess. But so far as good.
I did get your babblemail and I will respond soon. Thank you.
Posted by wishingstar on January 26, 2007, at 16:54:34
In reply to Re: what keeps you going? (my reasons), posted by philyra on January 26, 2007, at 14:39:48
> the greatest advice i got about my suicidal feelings was pretty blunt. a pdoc told me to think of them as a symptom of my depression, a signal that i must be feeling pretty bad.
>Surprisingly enough that does help in a way. In a way it seems so obvious, but it's easy to forget. When its your brain that sick, everything else gets flitered through it. Good point. I have gotten some really great ideas so far from everyone here. Thank you.
Posted by happykat on January 26, 2007, at 19:58:20
In reply to Re: what keeps you going? (my reasons) » happykat, posted by wishingstar on January 26, 2007, at 16:47:50
(((((((((((((((wishingstar)))))))))))))))))
>>>Sometimes, it's very important, like when it comes to staying alive.<<<<***Yes!!!! And that's a good thing! : )
>>>>It made me thankful I'm not seeing Anne anymore.<<<<<
***Sounds like an absolute therapist from hell!:(
>>>> Maybe later on they will have more meaning for me.<<<<***20 yrs from now. You will be astonished at how amazing your life is and how happy you are you stuck around. And those journals will confirm that you are strong and that you came out of the otherside o.k. :)
>>>>I'm just a little blah right now.<<<<
***You are strong wishingstar. You'll make it!! Hoping that you're feeling better soon!!!
Regards,
happykat
Posted by happykat on January 26, 2007, at 20:02:51
In reply to Re: what keeps you going? » wishingstar, posted by Daisym on January 26, 2007, at 0:00:45
(((((((((((((((Daisy))))))))))))))))))))))))))
I'm really sorry that you are going through such a hard time. I don't think I realized how serious it was. I hope you are doing o.k. and are hanging in there.
Your posts have really helped me out and I just want you to know that. I'm sorry you are hurting so much! :( I'm glad that you have a good t. He sounds like he really cares.
You're in my thoughts and prayers. Sending you lots and lots of hugs and healing vibes.
Be well. Stay safe!!!
Regards,
Kat
Posted by wishingstar on January 26, 2007, at 20:53:33
In reply to Re: what keeps you going? (my reasons) » wishingstar, posted by happykat on January 26, 2007, at 19:58:20
>
> ***Sounds like an absolute therapist from hell!:(She could have been a lot worse, but yes, not too great.
> ***20 yrs from now. You will be astonished at how amazing your life is and how happy you are you stuck around. And those journals will confirm that you are strong and that you came out of the otherside o.k. :)
>
I sure hope so.
>
> ***You are strong wishingstar. You'll make it!! Hoping that you're feeling better soon!!!
>
Thank you. I'm trying.
Posted by wishingstar on January 26, 2007, at 20:55:59
In reply to Re: what keeps you going? » Daisym, posted by happykat on January 26, 2007, at 20:02:51
If I didnt have 2 job interviews on Monday morning, I'd go admit myself right this second.
I can NOT take this anymore. Yes, I'll be safe tonight.. I'll be fine... but its a huge fight and I'd rather just be safe somewhere else. I'm a mess.
But I cant. There 2 interviews are at pretty much the best 2 locations in my area to work (for what I want to do), and its a small town, so if I cancel these, likely thats it for these 2 agencies. And thats not okay either.
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