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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Daisym on January 16, 2007, at 23:04:51
The topic of today's session was "Mothers and the daughters who fail them."
No matter where we go with the subject of suicide, it keeps coming back to this huge need I have to live up to my mother's expectations. Disappointing her is worse than death. I am who she wants and needs me to be. One of her favorite stories is about how she "forced" me to stop being shy and make friends. :( I'm not completely like her - I've managed to hang on to my need to be a great mom, while this is not a high priority for her. And I work in human services, not in corporate America. She says she knows the work I do is important but she frequently reminds me that I could make triple the amount of money if I ever was interested in getting a "real" job. She means well, she loves me, I really do know that. Underneath it all is the need to hide from her how bad I am. Intellectually I can say that I know kids can't make their parents abuse them. But inside myself I'm terrified that if my mother ever finds out, she will be very ashamed of me and completely appalled by what I've done. No amount of "it wasn't your fault" gets through.
My therapist keeps asking me why is it so important for me to live up to her expectations. How can I answer that? Sometimes I can feel the little girl inside me waiting for her mommy to come and rescue her. Sometimes I feel so desperate -- if I don't have her then who do I have? He says I'm not getting my own needs met by trying to be perfect for her. He also pointed out that I seem to do this with (almost) everyone I care about - I change to be who they need/want me to be, I try to be perfect. Even in therapy, I try to be perfect. I wanted to scream at him, "What do you want from me?!! I don't know who I am, or even who I was supposed to be. How can I not be whoever people expect me to be?" Why is trying to be perfect such a bad thing to be?!
I finally said that I was afraid people won't like me if I don't meet their needs. And they really, really won't like me if I have needs of my own. He already knew that. He said I'm more than afraid they won't like me, I'm terrified they will leave me. Well, duh. Hasn't that been the core issue since I started this horrific process?
It was so much easier to not know I had any needs at all. He knew he pushed (too?) hard -- he tried to soften things at the end. It was too late. I made several sarcastic comments about failing at relationships and I said that he had no idea what it was like to just want your mom to love you enough to save you. I would do anything to be worth saving...to be worth loving. But I think it is too late.
Posted by happykat on January 17, 2007, at 6:22:28
In reply to Mother Stuff, posted by Daisym on January 16, 2007, at 23:04:51
Daisy,
I was moved by your post. When I was reading it I felt as if someone had crawled into my head and finally put words to my feelings. If you don't mind I would like to print it and take it to my t.
It is so hard to long for someone to save you, love you and give you a sense of worth. Especially hard if that someone is your mother and she wasn't able to provide those things to you as a child. You spend your whole life being perfect so that one day maybe somebody will deem you worthy enough to rescue you and love you and give you what your mother never really could. It's a painful loss and I'm not sure how you get over it.
Do you speak with and see your mother often? Have you ever talked with her about any of this?
It's NEVER TOO LATE and YOU ARE WORTH SAVING AND LOVING!!!!
((((Daisy))))
Be well. Stay safe.
Regards,
happykat
Posted by Fallsfall on January 17, 2007, at 9:15:54
In reply to Mother Stuff, posted by Daisym on January 16, 2007, at 23:04:51
Daisy,
There is an inequality between your life and your mother's expectations. You see that and she sees that. This is a fact.
You conclude that your life is not "good enough" because it is "less" than your mother's expectations. It is possible, however, to look at it a different way. What if the part that is "wrong" is not your life. What if the part that is "wrong" is her expectations? If her expectations were unreasonable, but your life was fine the same inequality would exist.
You know that she isn't a great mom (and I quote: "I've managed to hang on to my need to be a great mom, while this is not a high priority for her"). What if one of her failings was her inability to have appropriate expectations for you? What if one of her failings is an inability to see that you are a different person than she is - that you have different goals and a different role to play in this life than she did?
You can't "live up" to her expectations because her expectations aren't right for you. In fact, you don't WANT to live up to her expectations. But the problem is not with your life. The problem is that her expectations are wrong.
I know, too, too, too well, how hard it is to see a parent as being flawed. They are larger than life when we are small. And they have all the answers. And they are always right - when we are little. But at some point the playing field levels. And our parents are just as flawed as anyone else on this earth. It is OK for her to be flawed. For her to have failings. She failed you in a number of ways. She also was incredibly important to the wonderful person you have become. But she isn't perfect (even if SHE thinks she is 8^) ). It is OK for you to recognize the parts of her that aren't perfect. That doesn't mean that you don't love her, it doesn't mean that you don't respect her - it just means that you disagree. ("... it's only you and me, and we just disagree")
Reasonable people can disagree. If everyone in the world agreed on everything then the world would be in big trouble. The world needs the geek, even if he has no social skills (like my son). The world needs the therapist, even if he has no business skills (like my therapist). The world needs the entrepreneur, even though he has no patience (like my dad). The world needs the dreamer, even though he has no ambition (like my daughter's boyfriend). All of these people are valuable to the world.
Your mother doesn't realize that you are a different person from her. That you have different goals. This is HER issue. This is HER mistake. Allow her to have this issue. Accept that what she wants is not right. And love her anyway.
Love,
Falls
Posted by littleone on January 17, 2007, at 14:15:57
In reply to Mother Stuff, posted by Daisym on January 16, 2007, at 23:04:51
Regardless of whether your mother is or isn't capable of giving you acceptance, I believe it's more important to learn to accept yourself. That the acceptance has to come from within, not from an external source.
I might be wrong, but it doesn't sound like you're doing that. It sounds more like you are sacrificing yourself to win her (and other people's) acceptance.
Perhaps it would help to move the focus here. To turn the focus to yourself. To consciously and deliberately choose to work on self acceptance.
How much work do you do on nurturing your parts and mothering yourself?
Posted by happykat on January 17, 2007, at 14:21:21
In reply to Mother Stuff, posted by Daisym on January 16, 2007, at 23:04:51
Daisy,
Please disregard my post above. I think I was kind of figuring out my own stuff and it came out sounding all wrong. I apologize. :(
I'm really sorry you're going thru such a rough time. The mother-daughter stuff can feel pretty raw sometimes. It's hard. :(
> The topic of today's session was "Mothers and the daughters who fail them."
>***I think the topic should be daughters and the mothers who fail them.***
I think the fact that you've gone on to be a great mom speaks volumes about you. A lot of people who have bad childhoods just repeat it with their kids. You've obviously managed to not repeat the same mistakes that your mom did. That's a huge accomplishment.
>>Sometimes I can feel the little girl inside me waiting for her mommy to come and rescue her. Sometimes I feel so desperate -- if I don't have her then who do I have?<<It's really hard when that younger more vulnerable part of you yearns so much for things to turn out right. I feel like I've spent a lifetime trying to fill that void. But at some point I think it comes down to realizing no one is going to rescue us. We must rescue ourselves. And that just sucks!
>>Why is trying to be perfect such a bad thing to be?! <<
***Unfortunately, being perfect usually means you aren't being true to yourself. You are being perfect for everyone but you. You deserve to come first. No one can do that for you but yourself.***
(OK wait. I feel like slapping myself. My t has told me this stuff many times and I want to slap her each time she says it. So I'm slapping myself for you) :)
I know its really hard! :( Hang in there!
Regards,
happykat
Posted by annierose on January 17, 2007, at 14:34:52
In reply to Re: Mother Stuff » Daisym, posted by Fallsfall on January 17, 2007, at 9:15:54
Your post resonated with me too. Well put and thought out.
Posted by Happyflower on January 17, 2007, at 17:35:00
In reply to Re: Mother Stuff » Daisym, posted by Fallsfall on January 17, 2007, at 9:15:54
awesome advice falls, that can probably be applied to all different kinds of relationships. ;-)
Posted by muffled on January 17, 2007, at 17:47:15
In reply to Mother Stuff, posted by Daisym on January 16, 2007, at 23:04:51
Daisy, sorry you hurt so.
My T said this week that I got a double standard.
One for me.
One for everyone else.
She said I would never hold someone else up to the standards I set myself.
Sorry, dunno bout Mom stuff. I just kinda have emtionally cut her off from me somehow. Kinda sad I guess, or sick, cuz I don't really care. I think I just kinda pity her or something? Or really i think there's nothing.I just don't care.
I like it this way.
Anyhow FWIW I think you worth loving and saving. But if you anything like me, you proly won't be able to actually hear that.
No easy answers, but where there's life theres good and bad stuff, and there's hope.
I reckon if I dead, then I just dead. I want to have some fun. I want to see beauty in nature. I want to touch my daughters face. I want to look in my sons eyes and smile. I want microwave popcorn, buttery flavor.
I kinda mixed up right now.
Sorry if this is messed.
Muffled
Posted by Daisym on January 17, 2007, at 23:55:35
In reply to Re: Mother Stuff » Daisym, posted by happykat on January 17, 2007, at 6:22:28
No need to apologize for either post. I could feel your sadness and I'm sorry you understand so well. I think sometimes your therapist is right, we can only comfort ourselves. But other times I find myself wishing for someone to come and take care of me, at least for a little while.
I'm sort of sad tonight, so this isn't very well thought out. But I appreciate everything you had to say.
Posted by Daisym on January 18, 2007, at 0:00:13
In reply to Re: Mother Stuff » Daisym, posted by Fallsfall on January 17, 2007, at 9:15:54
***Allow her to have this issue. Accept that what she wants is not right. And love her anyway.
This is almost exactly what I want from her. I want her to accept that I have issues and that sometimes I've done things that aren't right. And I want her to love me anyway.
It is just so painful to think about all of this. I feel torn in half and at that place of not being able to stand one more minute of it. I'll try to think about what you said. All I can think about right now is how alone I am.
Posted by muffled on January 18, 2007, at 1:17:33
In reply to Mother Stuff, posted by Daisym on January 16, 2007, at 23:04:51
>Underneath it all is the need to hide from her how bad I am.
Thats what i call in my writings "our Prime Directive" (star trek i beleive).
That noone must ever know.(not my mom in my case, but noone at all)
It cannot be spoken.That has been the prime directive thats run my life.(thats run my life...just thot of that now, thanks Daisy)
And still does to this day.
But I starting to realize, to KNOW that I am not all bad.
But I have not resolved this with the kid....she IS still bad.....
But I DO have good parts....
and I try to focus on them.
Which is nice.
And helpful.
But I dunno, at some point it may come down to dealing with that kid.
Hope not.
Take care Daisy, you have good parts, mebbe you could focus on them some?
Muffled
Posted by Annierose on January 18, 2007, at 16:20:08
In reply to Re: Mother Stuff » Fallsfall, posted by Daisym on January 18, 2007, at 0:00:13
***All I can think about right now is how alone I am.***
But see, you are not alone. It just feels that way. Of course you are part of this babble community, and more importantly you have your family & your sons (who love you just the way you are), your friends and your co-workers, etc. etc.
And you are certainly not alone in having mother issues - I think we can filled up an entire country or two with that population.
Somehow our brains lead us to believe that our mothers must have been right for the choices they made (knowingly or not). It may have been the best that they could have done at that moment, but it doesn't mean it was good enough for the people that we are.
I know that you would like your mom to accept you as you are --- that is a motherly idea. But whether she does or not says more about her than you. And from what little you write about her, it does feel like she is proud of you.
Mothers - what a complicated relationship.
This is the end of the thread.
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