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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by wishingstar on January 4, 2007, at 20:56:35
Okay. I have a secret to tell that no one knows. Not even Ginny or Laurie or crazy Anne. I want to tell you all because I think it'll help me get my nerve up to tell Ginny.
I think I caused my depression myself. I do. In fact, I'm pretty sure of it.
Back a little over a year ago I had several difficult things happen in a row - a relationship problem, the death of a 7 year old I knew, etc. This triggered the return some depression in me (I'd already had one major bout a few years before) but not major suicidal depression. In about Feb, I started birth control and became MUCH more depressed. I only took that brand for one month and stopped because I knew it had caused it. Birth control does sometimes cause depression in people.
I think I was off it for a month or 2. I talked to my doctor and then started a new brand. I didnt really feel worse immediately but gradually things got worse over the next 3-4 months. I dont know if the med had anything to do with it, but it is certainly possible.
I kept taking it up until six weeks ago because I was afraid to stop it. I was afraid that if I stopped and everything was magically better that I couldnt handle that... knowing that I'd done it to myself and being in the "cycle" and not depressed anymore.
By the way, my pdoc and the docs at the hospital did know I was on it. It's in my paperwork anyway.
Well, I stopped it finally and things have defintiely not gotten better. If anything, theyre still getting worse. But what if I caused this myself? I mean, the depression may have been caused originally by the meds and now its just spiraled and so taking the meds away didnt make a difference. But maybe if I'd never taken it to begin with, I'd be fine right now. Or maybe the meds werent it at all.. but what if?
I feel like such an idiot. This is the major reason I blame myself for being depressed. No one knows that. They always tell me its a biological illness but what if that IS my fault? There's nothing I can do about that now.. but I just... ugh. I feel totally crazy and attention-seeking. I'm not trying to get attention. Really.
That's my secret.
Posted by sunnydays on January 4, 2007, at 21:23:18
In reply to I have to tell a secret, posted by wishingstar on January 4, 2007, at 20:56:35
((((((((((((((wishingstar)))))))))))))))))))
You know, you're really brave. And I don't think you caused it. It's the doctors responsibility to know if a medicine may cause depression, and if your doctors didn't tell you to stop taking it, I don't think that it was what caused it. And if you stopped it and it didn't get better, that proves it. I understand your argument, but that's not how it works. Once the medication is out of your system the depression should stop. I really don't think that's it. But you definitely should talk to Ginny about it.
You are so so brave wishingstar. It's okay to be scared. But I don't think you caused your depression.
sunnydays
Posted by MidnightBlue on January 4, 2007, at 22:32:26
In reply to Re: I have to tell a secret » wishingstar, posted by sunnydays on January 4, 2007, at 21:23:18
Wishingstar,
It isn't really a secret, it is a FEAR. You are afraid you caused the depression. You didn't. And if your body reacted badly to a drug, well that is a biological problem. It isn't like you wished the depression on yourself. Or started taking something that wasn't prescribed for you.
Your doctors knew you were on birth control, you stopped it, and it didn't help. Maybe you aren't afraid you caused it (which would mean you WERE in control), maybe you are afraid you have no control at all? It is scary to feel you have no control over something.
I think the truth probably is somewhere in between. You have a biological problem that you can't control except by taking meds, eating right, getting enough sleep, and doing everything else you can to take good care of yourself.
Let yourself off the hook!
MidnightBlue
Posted by youngaddict on January 4, 2007, at 22:47:40
In reply to Re: I have to tell a secret » wishingstar, posted by sunnydays on January 4, 2007, at 21:23:18
ok so ineed you to realize that you did not cause your depression. my therapist always refers to this phenomenon as the bitch inside me not wanting to succeed. i purposefully do self-destructive things to myself because i don't feel like i deserve any better. so taking a drug you thought caused depression makes sense. but i don't think that it did. maybe chemically, but your disease of depression makes you want to do bad things to yourself. at least, from what i can tell from you, but definitly for me. am i making any sense?
talk about this with ginnie, because i think its an absolute" fear" of yours and that its something you can work out, why you hate yourself (if in fact you do)
god please don't think i am being mean!! :)
Posted by muffled on January 4, 2007, at 23:58:18
In reply to I have to tell a secret, posted by wishingstar on January 4, 2007, at 20:56:35
Ahhh Wishy, we ALL do stuff to mess ourselves up.
If you haven't noticed any diff off the B/C pills, then I doubt its them. Hormones are powerful and you'd proly notice.
But then of course, the next thing is you diss yourself over 'motivation'. Again, you so not alone. Being well, when you been unwell a long time is freaky. Like people are gonna start expecting amazing things of you. Your 'crutch' is gone. Oh ya, I know bout that all right. freaky.
Yeah you a brave one, you ready to dig in now aren't you?
Gonna be hard, but I know you got it in you to do it. There will be ups and downs, but ever mooving ahead. S'all good Wishy.
Your honesty is WONDERFUL.
Try the writing as a therpay session starter, works great!
Take care, you doing great.
And I personally am SO HONORED by your trust in us. Thank you for that :)
Muffled
Posted by Dinah on January 5, 2007, at 10:16:08
In reply to I have to tell a secret, posted by wishingstar on January 4, 2007, at 20:56:35
No, you didn't cause it. Hormones are odd and powerful things, but you didn't cause it.
It'll be good to tell your therapist though and let go of the guilt you're feeling.
Posted by wishingstar on January 5, 2007, at 11:01:18
In reply to Re: I have to tell a secret » wishingstar, posted by Dinah on January 5, 2007, at 10:16:08
Thank you everyone. I knew you all would be supportive but I didnt expect everyone to say so adamently that it's not my fault. Because in my head is really, truly is.
It's true, my doctors knew I was on it and kept me on it. But I know that I sort of "played a game" in some ways there. I didnt mention it when I should have. The perscribing doctor didnt know I was depressed and I only say her very briefly to pick up the pills anyway. And my pdoc knew I was on it - its in my papers, and he had it ordered when I was in the hospital so I could keep getting it - but we've never discussed it. It's really something I should have brought up if I was being honest about trying to get better. I definitely wanst connecting the dots for anyone.
And I know what you all mean when you say that stopping it should have stopped the depression if that was the case. But I wonder if it's possible that I cognitively/behaviorally talked myself into a depression with a little help from the drug, and then that part has just hung around. I dont know.
This is very hard to admit here, but I know it'll be harder in therapy. It wasnt like I didnt know. That's the hardest part. If I later on found out that a med I had been on could be to blame, I'd be mad but not really at myself. I didnt know. But this time, I did know, even from day one. I even stayed on it for months longer than I needed to because I was afraid to get better. I was afraid I'd wake up and feel fine a few days after the last pill. I think a big part of it is that I felt like I'd rather stay depressed than lose the attention and whatever I was getting out of therapy. But I truly dont think of myself as attention-seeking...but I guess maybe I'm wrong. I really do want to get better. I dont understand why I did that.
Thank you everyone. I just dont know what to believe. But I do need to tell Ginny. I plan to. And saying it here has made it feel a little easier. It's not such a big secret anymore.
Posted by wishingstar on January 5, 2007, at 11:04:20
In reply to Re: I have to tell a secret » wishingstar, posted by sunnydays on January 4, 2007, at 21:23:18
sunnydays,
I mostly said everything I wanted to say in my last post to all three of you, I wanted to say one other thing. Thank you for saying that I'm brave and that it's okay to be scared. I didnt realize it but I think that is something I really needed to hear. It really means a lot to me and touched me on a really emotional level. I think it went all the way down to that little kid inside. Thank you.
Posted by wishingstar on January 5, 2007, at 11:08:17
In reply to Re: I have to tell a secret, posted by youngaddict on January 4, 2007, at 22:47:40
Yes, that definitely made sense. It's something very interesting for me to consider. Even if I did take this drug and it had an effect on the depression, the fact that I knew it was hurting me and did it anyway says something was wrong to begin with. I was hurting myself purposefully and there was a reason for that too. That means that even if I did partially do this to myself, it was 100% the way I'm putting it. That is really something for me to think about.
And I dont think you're being mean at all! I do pretty much hate myself. So you hit the nail on the head there. Thank you.
Posted by wishingstar on January 5, 2007, at 11:12:46
In reply to Re: I have to tell a secret » wishingstar, posted by muffled on January 4, 2007, at 23:58:18
Time to dig in indeed.. I guess I'm finally hitting that hard part of therapy huh. It sucks. lol
Sometimes I almost feel like I dont know who I am anymore without the depression. I'm so used to it. My day to day life is based around it. I went out with a friend last night and I feel weird about it this morning, because it messed up my self-isolation patterns. Which of course is good, but weird. I have to see her again today. Getting rid of it, while it sounds wonderful, is definitely scary.
It's so much easier to be honest online. When I cant see or hear any of you and dont have to fear immediate reactions. Not that I'd need to fear it anyway, but it sure is a lot scarier. Thank you.
Posted by canadagirl on January 5, 2007, at 14:29:33
In reply to I have to tell a secret, posted by wishingstar on January 4, 2007, at 20:56:35
Hi Wishingstar hope you don't mind if I jump in but I had terrible depression on the pill and did some crazy things that I wouldn;t normally do, in the realm of buying expensive investments,etc. I don't think boom, you're off the pill and you're all better, it takes a while to feel the difference. You could have been depressed and it just makes it worse. You don't have to give up therapy if it is helping you, there is supportive therapy too, not just for the deep dark depression. good luck with everything.
Posted by wishingstar on January 5, 2007, at 14:49:38
In reply to Re: I have to tell a secret » wishingstar, posted by canadagirl on January 5, 2007, at 14:29:33
Thanks for your comments canadagirl.
I guess what you said is exactly what I'm afraid of. I know that I wasnt 100% perfect and together before starting it, so I'm sure some piece of it is "real"... but I'm afraid a very large piece is self-created. I just wish I knew.
Posted by youngaddict on January 5, 2007, at 17:42:47
In reply to Re: I have to tell a secret » youngaddict, posted by wishingstar on January 5, 2007, at 11:08:17
hey hon
i had an awful session with my T today but i just wanted to say that i agree with your post about not wanting to get better.
i am so scared of doing well..of being better. i don't know how to act, i don't know how to live, so its easier, in this twisted unhappy way, to be so depressed and hate myself so much that i literally don't give my self credit for ANYTHING.
argh!
hope you bring this up with your t because i think it will help
btw whats a pdoc?
Posted by Poet on January 6, 2007, at 11:19:10
In reply to Re: I have to tell a secret, posted by youngaddict on January 5, 2007, at 17:42:47
Posted by Poet on January 6, 2007, at 11:29:59
In reply to I have to tell a secret, posted by wishingstar on January 4, 2007, at 20:56:35
Hi Wishingstar,
Being dysthymic I can't remember not being depressed. I don't think you caused your depression, the birth control pills might have triggered it, but it's nothing you chose to have happen.
I was depressed before I started birth control pills, I've actually been on them for thirty years, so I can't say if they contribute to my depression as depression predates my taking them. Remember there are many levels of depression, major depression and feeling suicidal is at one end, the other is where I'm usually at: low level depression that just sort of hangs around me.
If you can get yourself to talk to Ginny about it, I would. I know what it's like to feel to blame for everything that is wrong with yourself emotionally. I blame myself for everything.
Poet
Posted by wishingstar on January 6, 2007, at 16:59:32
In reply to Re: I have to tell a secret, posted by youngaddict on January 5, 2007, at 17:42:47
I'm sorry to hear you had a hard session. Those are no fun.
I know what you mean about being afraid of getting better and not knowing how to live. I feel like I've been depressed for so long that when I have multiple good days in a row, I almost dont know what to do with myself. It's like a new life. A life I definitely want, but it's scary.
I will try to bring this up with Ginny. Thanks. And yes, like poet said, pdoc is short for psychiatrist. Sorry about that. :)
Posted by wishingstar on January 6, 2007, at 17:02:32
In reply to Re: I have to tell a secret » wishingstar, posted by Poet on January 6, 2007, at 11:29:59
Thanks for reassuring me. I've also been diagnosed with dysthymia outside of my major depressive episodes (this one and one around 1999-2001), so I've been depressed on some level for a long time as well. I certainly have a biological predisposition to it. And the first major episode was years before I'd ever been on birth control. I think I'm trying to respond to you and convince myself at the same time. Sorry about that. Heh.
I am going to talk to Ginny about this. I have to. It's a big issue and she'll be mad if I dont tell her until much later. Thank you.
Posted by Llurpsie_Noodle on January 10, 2007, at 21:45:22
In reply to Re: I have to tell a secret/Wishingstar, posted by MidnightBlue on January 4, 2007, at 22:32:26
Wishingstar,
you did not CAUSE your depression.(happy belated b-day, by the way)
I also "caused" my depression. When my mind is overwhelmed. Anxiety, etc I dont' take care of it. I just let it pile up, or ignore it. Sometimes I actually FEEL depression coming, and I invite it.
Depression gives me a good excuse to put other stuff on hold. allows me to wallow. makes the inside feel all rotten and comfortable.
The hard work is to figure out why being in so much pain is preferable to engaging in LIFE?
Keep up your hard work. Chemicals are not an excuse for behavior. I have also experienced depression as a result of birthcontrol. BUT, I've also experienced it when NOT on bc. Have you? Besides, why would you react so strongly to bc? You had a really severe depression. Plus, let's not forget that you were suffering a lot in your personal relationship with T's during this period. That wasn't caused or determined my the level of estradiol in your blood!
but, take note of this for the future. Now that you know that you are predisposed to depression, you will have to be extra vigilant about avoiding depressive sideeffects.
gonna go bed now.
-Ll
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