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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dinah on December 18, 2006, at 17:24:02
There are times in therapy when I just can't talk. I can hear him talking, and I want to respond, but something feels like it's keeping my mouth closed and my tongue heavy. I can't even open my eyes although I work all the eye opening muscles as hard as I can.
I try conveying this to him with gestures (hand in a palm up wavy thing, or looking at him beseechingly with closed eyes) but he fails to get it most of the time. He interprets it as me not wanting to talk about something or that I'm angry and sulking, when if I could speak (and when I eventually do speak) it would be to say "Help pull me back!!! Talk to me in a way that commands an answer louder than my brain is commanding silence! I can't speak!"
I've tried to tell him that's what I mean when I do that, but it is difficult for him, I think. Because sometimes something similar might mean, I can't think of anything to say. Or I've run out of therapy topics. Of course, my eyes aren't usually shut in those cases. Plus his memory is definitely spotty.
I'm trying to think of some gesture that is absolutely unmistakeable in nature (since his memory is so poor), but not so difficult to form that it will be beyond me at the time. Does anyone have any they use?
Therapy's been up and down lately. Friday's session was loaded with his countertransference at how I get into unreasonable moods where I refuse everything he offers to me and of course he draws back from me because he's frustrated and angry (when I noted that he was folding his arms and raising boundaries). Sigh.
It led to two hysterical phone calls to his machine about the cruelty of yelling (well, probably not literally yelling, but still...) at me on a Friday, when I won't see him for days, and when I already am feeling like everyone in the world thinks I'm terrible and here he's telling me something about me that he can't stand.
And two calls on Friday and one on Sunday from him to check that I'm ok. I'm not sure what's going on with that. It's unlike him, but I did recently compare him unfavorably with Daisy's therapist on the topic, so maybe that's why. Or maybe he's trying to tell me that even though he crossed his arms and pulled up his boundaries in anger that he does care about me and can stand talking to me.
I don't know.
But Thurday's session was fine. I guess he *can't* stand to see me more than twice a week. I won't make that mistake again.
Posted by annierose on December 18, 2006, at 18:41:53
In reply to Does anyone have a signal?, posted by Dinah on December 18, 2006, at 17:24:02
I have no signal but I do know the feeling of wanting to talk but the words just won't flow. I sympathize with you. Sometimes my t will ask a question and I have a reply but nothing will come out.
I'm glad Thursday's session was fine. I hope your next session will be too.
Thinking of you, Annie
Posted by TherapyGirl on December 18, 2006, at 19:00:06
In reply to Does anyone have a signal?, posted by Dinah on December 18, 2006, at 17:24:02
I know exactly what you're talking about. And it was hard for me to describe it with words for several years. But I finally did and now I'm able to say this, even when I can't say anything else: "I'm sorry my words are stuck." or "My words won't come out." Mostly she just keeps talking until I can work through it. Sometimes she asks questions about why I think the words are stuck -- sometimes that works and sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes she says things to me like, "Stay with me," etc., to try to get me to focus on her instead of on whatever is going on inside. It all works randomly -- or so it seems to me.
Posted by littleone on December 18, 2006, at 19:35:14
In reply to Does anyone have a signal?, posted by Dinah on December 18, 2006, at 17:24:02
> There are times in therapy when I just can't talk. I can hear him talking, and I want to respond, but something feels like it's keeping my mouth closed and my tongue heavy. I can't even open my eyes although I work all the eye opening muscles as hard as I can.
This might sound obviously dumb, but can you make a mmmmm sound? Not like a yum yum sound, but like the sort of sound you'd make if you were gagged. I would imagine that it might be possible still with a closed mouth and heavy tongue. Although you may need to explain beforehand that that is what it means.
And also beforehand perhaps discuss what he can do to help you when you're like this.
Posted by peddidle on December 18, 2006, at 23:15:17
In reply to Does anyone have a signal?, posted by Dinah on December 18, 2006, at 17:24:02
This may sound stupid, but maybe you could make an actual sign that says "my words won't come out" or "I can't speak" and hold it up whenever that happens.
Posted by Daisym on December 19, 2006, at 1:15:47
In reply to Does anyone have a signal?, posted by Dinah on December 18, 2006, at 17:24:02
Can you talk at all? Even a little? If you can, you might try, "I'm going away" or I really like, "my words are stuck" as mentioned above. Then he can back up and try to connect and bring you back.
I shake my leg, it is a nervous habit, but I only do it when I'm upset. So I guess that is our signal.
I'm sure your therapist can stand you more than 2x a week. But perhaps rational you can't stand emotional you more than that, so you shut you down. Does that make sense? I say a lot, "there is a war going on in my head."
My therapist would tell you that silence is OK too, to sit with it and just see what happens. But I hate, hate, hate that. I usually sit with it for 2 minutes and then burst into tears and yell at him for "making" me sit in silence.
Posted by Honore on December 19, 2006, at 10:42:11
In reply to Does anyone have a signal?, posted by Dinah on December 18, 2006, at 17:24:02
Maybe you could text him, although you'd have to open your eyes, I guess.
If you have a cellphone, and he has one. and he keeps it on.
or maybe you could do it before you go. or you could call his office phone and have a number of rings mean something.
Or you could decide on a signal before hand, in case of emergency.
I'm sorry things are so hard right now, but I guess it just always happens, sometimes.
Honore
Posted by Poet on December 19, 2006, at 10:53:28
In reply to Does anyone have a signal?, posted by Dinah on December 18, 2006, at 17:24:02
Hi Dinah,
I avoid eye contact, mainly stare at my feet. Generally she responds with *where did you go to just now.*
I'm sorry your T has caused you to believe that he can't stand to see you more than once a week, I wish he could understand that you need to see him more often.
Poet
Posted by Dinah on December 19, 2006, at 12:07:33
In reply to Re: Does anyone have a signal? » Dinah, posted by Poet on December 19, 2006, at 10:53:28
We talked about it today. He said he'd suggest something that wouldn't be a gesture that could possibly mean anything else, like holding up two fingers. I told him I'd try to remember, and try to do that, and he'll try to remember what it means.
I felt afraid of him today, and he saw that and insisted we talk about Friday. My conclusion was that I had to try harder to be a better girl, and not bother him too much by seeing him too often.
He started off by apologizing and saying he knew he could have done better Friday, and his explanation was that he *did* care about me, and my decisions were making him anxious and that came out as anger.
I think it will take a few sessions to work this one out, but I think maybe it's workable. Maybe it's a good thing that he'll be away for a week or so. He still wants me to come in three times a week for right now, and I'm still leary of that.
I don't know. I think who I am and how I interact pushes a few buttons for him. Well, I'm almost positive of that. It's one of the many reasons I never did have any desire to spend time with him outside the therapy room. I'm just not feeling quite robust enough to take that philosophically.
Still, I appreciated how hard he tried this weekend and today to make me feel like he cared about me and didn't dislike being around me. He's a very good person, I think.
Posted by annierose on December 19, 2006, at 16:52:06
In reply to Re: Does anyone have a signal?, posted by Dinah on December 19, 2006, at 12:07:33
Of course he is a very good person. You are an excellent judge of character. He wouldn't be your T if he wasn't just right for you! He does want the best for you.
Try 3x a week and take it a week at a time.
Posted by pegasus on December 19, 2006, at 22:09:18
In reply to Re: Does anyone have a signal?, posted by Dinah on December 19, 2006, at 12:07:33
I'm glad to hear that you're talking about it with him, Dinah. And that he apologized.
My signal is to put my hands over my ears, usually along with curling up into a ball. It's pretty hard to ignore that. And it's pretty clear that I can't handle anything more coming in, and that nothing is going to come out. Although, I suppose it's a bit dramatic. Fortunately when I get into that state, closing off input feels pretty instinctive, so I don't feel like I'm dramatizing anything. My T generally responds by stopping talking, and waiting. Then saying something about being concerned about me. ;) My husband, on the other hand, gets really huffy when I do it to him. ;)
I guess that doesn't help. I think the two finger thing seems like a good thing to try. Let us know how it works, whenever you have to use it. I hope your T remembers what it means.
peg
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