![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Tamar on April 16, 2006, at 8:02:14
Thanks for remembering me and asking about me.
I’m still struggling quite a bit, and I find it really hard to communicate when I’m so confused and stressed. Sorry for not being here… I have missed this place a lot, but it’s been really hard to stay involved when I’m feeling like this.
So I hope you won’t mind too much if I post a question…
My therapy took a good turn on Thursday (which also happened to be my birthday, so I was pretty happy about that!). We’ve been talking about the therapeutic relationship a lot, because I’m just not feeling very safe at the moment.
One thing he suggested was that I could leave some of my feelings with him. I said I didn’t know how to do that; surely my feelings can’t be separated from me and left somewhere else. And then I thought maybe it would be possible if I did something symbolic. He said maybe I could write something and give it to him to keep in his office, or maybe draw something.
I don’t think writing will work for this. I write so much the rest of the time; I want a more powerful symbol for this. I’ve had two ideas about it. I have some photographs I took of myself when I wrote things on my body a few weeks ago. They might be just the thing to leave with him; they’re pretty symbolic. But if I leave them with him I’ll probably want to discuss them, and there’s some brief nudity! They’re not pornographic or erotic but there are nipples in some of them… He might find it utterly inappropriate…
My other idea is to make a rag doll that represents me and write on her body underneath her clothes. But maybe that’s childish and silly. Or maybe it isn’t the sort of thing he’d let me leave with him; it certainly wouldn’t fit in my file!
I like the idea of being able to talk about the photos with him, but not if he’s going to run screaming from the room at the sight of a bit of flesh. (And no, I don’t think he’ll find them remotely seductive – there’s too much sadness and pain in them.) Of course, I could give them to him and ask them not to look at them, but I don’t see how that would be helpful or therapeutic.
On the other hand I like the idea of giving him a doll to look after because presumably he’ll give it back to me after a while and then it will be something I can keep to remember him. (I fantasise that he’ll forget to give it back to me and then he’ll keep a part of me forever…)
Or maybe I should give up on those two ideas and write a short paper. But it won’t be as symbolic to me and I think I need to do something that will really be effective.
Tamar
Posted by muffled on April 16, 2006, at 10:18:22
In reply to I love you guys!, posted by Tamar on April 16, 2006, at 8:02:14
Sorry its so hard right now.
I dunno how open you are with your T, but as far as nudity goes, I don't think thats a problem. These days it seems everything goes, so if your T hasn't seen a nipple b4 I'd be surprized! Heck, he's got two nipples hisself!
If its the intensity of the photos thats concerns you, then I would just warn him that they are intense b4 you let him have them, so he's ready for it, or he may choose not to look at them, but just discuss content. He's the best judge of his own limits of what he can handle.
If your motivation for giving them to him are good, then it might help your therapy. Show him how things are for you. The reality of it.
Thanks so much for posting, we have been worried about you.
Its hard to post when its hard to even collect 2 coherant thots.
Please try and be safe as you can.
You are special.
You'll get thru this.
And the sun will shine again.
And there will be times of joy.
And you'll be able to help so many others, cuz you TRULY understand. Cuz you been there.
Sometimes I think us strugglers have a special reason for it, and thats to help others. Even in seemingly small ways.
So important.
Take care Tamar.
So glad to hear from you.
Your T sounds wonderful
Muffled
Posted by Dinah on April 16, 2006, at 11:13:18
In reply to I love you guys!, posted by Tamar on April 16, 2006, at 8:02:14
I think it's probably best to ask him if it's ok before actually giving them to him, and if you want, have something else as backup. But I think it's perfectly appropriate.
I showed my therapist what I did to my stomach once, after asking permission. There was no nipples involved, but it was skin exposure in person. He responded appropriately, although he was clearly affected by it.
I'm so sorry you're not doing well.
((((Tamar))))
Posted by milly on April 16, 2006, at 12:57:16
In reply to I love you guys!, posted by Tamar on April 16, 2006, at 8:02:14
> My therapy took a good turn on Thursday (which also happened to be my birthday, so I was pretty happy about that!). We’ve been talking about the therapeutic relationship a lot, because I’m just not feeling very safe at the moment.**Belated Happy Birthday
> One thing he suggested was that I could leave some of my feelings with him. I said I didn’t know how to do that; surely my feelings can’t be separated from me and left somewhere else. And then I thought maybe it would be possible if I did something symbolic. He said maybe I could write something and give it to him to keep in his office, or maybe draw something.
** thats a great idea
> I don’t think writing will work for this. I write so much the rest of the time; I want a more powerful symbol for this. I’ve had two ideas about it. I have some photographs I took of myself when I wrote things on my body a few weeks ago. They might be just the thing to leave with him; they’re pretty symbolic. But if I leave them with him I’ll probably want to discuss them, and there’s some brief nudity! They’re not pornographic or erotic but there are nipples in some of them… He might find it utterly inappropriate…
** I doubt he'd find it inappropriate but I'm sure he'd find it very meaningful, it says alot about your trust of him that you can even consider sharing them with him, wow
> My other idea is to make a rag doll that represents me and write on her body underneath her clothes. But maybe that’s childish and silly. Or maybe it isn’t the sort of thing he’d let me leave with him; it certainly wouldn’t fit in my file!
**thats a great idea too, don't worry about the file!
> I like the idea of being able to talk about the photos with him, but not if he’s going to run screaming from the room at the sight of a bit of flesh. (And no, I don’t think he’ll find them remotely seductive – there’s too much sadness and pain in them.) Of course, I could give them to him and ask them not to look at them, but I don’t see how that would be helpful or therapeutic.
**It's funny they don't seem to run screaming from the room whatever we throw at them!
> On the other hand I like the idea of giving him a doll to look after because presumably he’ll give it back to me after a while and then it will be something I can keep to remember him. (I fantasise that he’ll forget to give it back to me and then he’ll keep a part of me forever…)**he may keep it longer than therapy, I got to leave my sculpture with my T after temination because I *really* needed to leave a bit behind
> Or maybe I should give up on those two ideas and write a short paper. But it won’t be as symbolic to me and I think I need to do something that will really be effective.
** do what you think will be most effective
Milly>
Posted by Annierose on April 16, 2006, at 17:04:48
In reply to I love you guys!, posted by Tamar on April 16, 2006, at 8:02:14
I'm sorry you are in such a rough spot. But I am glad to hear that you are still working with your T.
I agree that before I'd leave the photographs, I would ask how he felt about it. I'm guessing he'd be okay, but only he can answer that for himself.
My T recently suggested dumping all my "stuff" on her lap before I left each session. Although I never left anything symbolic, just thinking about it has helped. If IRL I start to worry or fret about an issue, I just remind myself that it's not my problem to deal with right then; it can wait until my next session.
I hope it works for you as well. I understand when we are feeling so vulnerable, it is hard to read and post here. I do miss your insight and hope you are feeling stronger soon.
Posted by Tamar on April 16, 2006, at 19:04:31
In reply to we luv ya too ((Tamar )) » Tamar, posted by muffled on April 16, 2006, at 10:18:22
Hi Muffled,
> Sorry its so hard right now.
Thanks for that. I think it’s getting better, but it’s slow…
> I dunno how open you are with your T, but as far as nudity goes, I don't think thats a problem. These days it seems everything goes, so if your T hasn't seen a nipple b4 I'd be surprized! Heck, he's got two nipples hisself!
That’s very true! I had forgotten about his nipples… haven’t thought about them in weeks…
> If its the intensity of the photos thats concerns you, then I would just warn him that they are intense b4 you let him have them, so he's ready for it, or he may choose not to look at them, but just discuss content. He's the best judge of his own limits of what he can handle.
Yeah, you’re right. I’ll definitely warn him about what’s in there.
> If your motivation for giving them to him are good, then it might help your therapy. Show him how things are for you. The reality of it.
I guess the main purpose is to use them symbolically to try to leave my self-destructive feelings with him. He doesn’t need to look at them, and in fact I talked about them once before (without showing them to him) so I suppose it doesn’t really matter whether he sees them.
> Thanks so much for posting, we have been worried about you.
> Its hard to post when its hard to even collect 2 coherant thots.
> Please try and be safe as you can.
> You are special.
> You'll get thru this.
> And the sun will shine again.
> And there will be times of joy.Yeah. That’s true… And I also hope there will be trips to bars in pink leather pants and much pissing on cars…
> And you'll be able to help so many others, cuz you TRULY understand. Cuz you been there.
> Sometimes I think us strugglers have a special reason for it, and thats to help others. Even in seemingly small ways.(((((Muffled))))) Yeah. I think you’re right.
Thanks again.
Tamar
Posted by Tamar on April 16, 2006, at 19:21:42
In reply to Re: I love you guys! » Tamar, posted by Dinah on April 16, 2006, at 11:13:18
> I think it's probably best to ask him if it's ok before actually giving them to him, and if you want, have something else as backup. But I think it's perfectly appropriate.
Yeah, I do think we’ll need to talk about it in advance. I’m glad you don’t think it’s inappropriate.
> I showed my therapist what I did to my stomach once, after asking permission. There was no nipples involved, but it was skin exposure in person. He responded appropriately, although he was clearly affected by it.
(((((Dinah))))) Seeing the real thing can be hard, I think.
I did something to my stomach yesterday. I think that’s why I decided the photos might be the thing to leave with him. When I took the photos I had no intention of ever showing them to him (or anyone else). They were just for me. But now I guess I feel I don’t need to keep them so private; maybe sharing them would be a step in the right direction.
> I'm so sorry you're not doing well.
>
> ((((Tamar))))Thanks Dinah.
Tamar
Posted by Tamar on April 16, 2006, at 19:34:42
In reply to Re: I love you guys! » Tamar, posted by milly on April 16, 2006, at 12:57:16
Hi Milly,
> **Belated Happy Birthday
Thanks!
> ** I doubt he'd find it inappropriate but I'm sure he'd find it very meaningful, it says alot about your trust of him that you can even consider sharing them with him, wow
It’s strange… I have no qualms about showing him pictures of me without clothes on, but I find it hard to tell him about things that happened more than 20 years ago… I’m not particularly ashamed of the way my body looks; I’m mostly ashamed of how it feels.
> **It's funny they don't seem to run screaming from the room whatever we throw at them!
That’s true. And he really hasn’t ever run screaming from the room. But sometimes he does a kind of non-response thing that terrifies me… (On Thursday I had a Freudian slip moment: I was talking about how I didn’t understand my sexuality when I was in my teens, and I said, “I didn’t have a very good grasp of my anatomy…” And of course I realised what I’d said and I laughed and he just sat there without reacting and I suddenly felt as if I’d been caught telling dirty jokes at the Sunday School picnic.)
> **he may keep it longer than therapy, I got to leave my sculpture with my T after temination because I *really* needed to leave a bit behind
I’m glad he let you leave the sculpture. I’m sorry I wasn’t around here when you had your last session. I hope you’re holding up OK. I know it’s hard (I’ve been through termination before).
Thanks for your support!
Tamar
Posted by Tamar on April 16, 2006, at 19:48:25
In reply to Re: I love you guys!, posted by Annierose on April 16, 2006, at 17:04:48
> I'm sorry you are in such a rough spot. But I am glad to hear that you are still working with your T.
Yeah. I hardly ever give up on relationships. For a while I wasn’t sure how I could go forward and I wondered if we’d done as much work as we could do together, but somehow we found a way through it. Sometimes I think they have to trust us as much as we have to trust them.
> I agree that before I'd leave the photographs, I would ask how he felt about it. I'm guessing he'd be okay, but only he can answer that for himself.
Yeah. I will definitely talk to him. I find I’m not always able to predict how he’ll react (which is really scary for me) but as long as I can face the possibility of a refusal without it feeling like a total rejection I’ll cope with whatever he says.
> My T recently suggested dumping all my "stuff" on her lap before I left each session. Although I never left anything symbolic, just thinking about it has helped. If IRL I start to worry or fret about an issue, I just remind myself that it's not my problem to deal with right then; it can wait until my next session.
I wish I could manage to do that by thinking about it. My therapist suggested something similar before, but I guess I just can’t imagine him taking it with him. I imagine him standing up and leaving the room and all my stuff is left piled up in a corner…
> I hope it works for you as well. I understand when we are feeling so vulnerable, it is hard to read and post here. I do miss your insight and hope you are feeling stronger soon.Thanks Annierose. It’s getting better, very slowly...
Tamar
Posted by special_k on April 17, 2006, at 0:08:38
In reply to I love you guys!, posted by Tamar on April 16, 2006, at 8:02:14
we wuv you too :-)
another option would be to put the pic's into an envelope and seal them and he can look after the envelope.
You could talk about them if you wanted.
or not.
or maybe one day.
glad you are back with us :-)
Posted by milly on April 17, 2006, at 13:15:55
In reply to Re: I love you guys! » milly, posted by Tamar on April 16, 2006, at 19:34:42
> > **It's funny they don't seem to run screaming from the room whatever we throw at them!
>
> That’s true. And he really hasn’t ever run screaming from the room. But sometimes he does a kind of non-response thing that terrifies me…**** Aarggh I hate that non responsive thing! I think they practise it in front of a mirror for hour at a time!!!! In the end it became a bit of a joke between my T & me so much so that I took in a little stuffed rabbit that I had bought because it reminded me of him, not because it was cute (which he is) or because it was something to hold on to, but because it has the blankest expression on it's face!!!
(On Thursday I had a Freudian slip moment: I was talking about how I didn’t understand my sexuality when I was in my teens, and I said, “I didn’t have a very good grasp of my anatomy…” And of course I realised what I’d said and I laughed and he just sat there without reacting and I suddenly felt as if I’d been caught telling dirty jokes at the Sunday School picnic.)
****LOL I've done that so often and I could never understand why he didn't find it funny
>
> > **he may keep it longer than therapy, I got to leave my sculpture with my T after temination because I *really* needed to leave a bit behind
>
> I’m glad he let you leave the sculpture. I’m sorry I wasn’t around here when you had your last session. I hope you’re holding up OK. I know it’s hard (I’ve been through termination before).**** It really is hard and I keep pushing myself to be OK about it but it feels like the death of my best friend, perfect lover and ideal parent rolled into one.Thanks for caring
milly
Posted by orchid on April 17, 2006, at 14:09:30
In reply to I love you guys!, posted by Tamar on April 16, 2006, at 8:02:14
Hi Tamar,
Belated Happy Birthday to you.Nice to see you posting again.
And am happy that you are hanging in there and trying to work out issues with your T.
I like the idea of symbolically leaving your issues with your T. I think it will be of tremendous help. But of course, I would be very scared to share my photos (if I had taken like that) with my T. It could be very powerfully healing for you, but I think it might also make you worried in the long run. Like in case your transference comes back in full force later, you might regret at that point about these photos. Also I might be personally worried about the safe-keeping of these photos - I wouldn't want them unintentionally getting into the hands of anyone else in case my therapist was not very careful, etc etc.
Also, in case he doesn't react well to the sharing of these photos, it might end up hurting you very much. IT is hard to show such vulnerability on our part and to take any *less than a great response*.
What I would think the right thing to do would perhaps be, take these photos with you, and ask him before hand if it is ok to show them to you (tell him before hand, it involves brief nudity etc), and if he says ok, then show them to him, and discuss them in your sessions, but bring the photos back with you. I wouldn't want them in my file or in the records. And after you talk about these photos and what it means to you etc for a few sessions, maybe at that time you can decide to give him something which might be appropriate at that time - either a letter, or a rag doll, or even one of these photos where there is no nudity, or if you still decide to at that time, the entire set.
What do you think?
Posted by Damos on April 17, 2006, at 22:54:55
In reply to I love you guys!, posted by Tamar on April 16, 2006, at 8:02:14
Belated Happy Birthday wishes, sorry I missed it.
I think what your T suggested is a really good idea. I really do.
And I think either the photos or the rag doll would be entirely appropriate. It is the power of the symbol to you that's really important. Don't know exactly why but receiving both would effect me in different ways. And both would touch and move me immensely. I have to admit that my immediate feeling about the doll was that you would be giving more than a feeling, that you would be giving me *you* in a way if that makes sense.
Trust yourself to know what is right for you. I'm sorry it's so hard and that you're hurting so very much sweet Tamar, wish I could give you a big hug and soak up all your hurts.
((((((((((Tamar))))))))))
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Psychology | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.