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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 33. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by happyflower on December 3, 2005, at 21:04:46
Do you think that since I see my T at the gym, it has changed the dynamics of therapy for him and me? It is changing our theraputic relationship to something more personal? He did say he does have other clients that work out there, but I never see him talking to anyone or smiling or winking at them, like he does to me.
I just wonder if seeing me their, has changed his thinking or view of me. Any thoughts?When I first saw him, he was wearing some worn out workout clothes and his hair looked dirty and uncombed. Now he looks very nice, even groomed, newer workout clothes. Just something I noticed.
Posted by daisym on December 3, 2005, at 23:50:34
In reply to therapist outside of office setting, posted by happyflower on December 3, 2005, at 21:04:46
Happy --
You really won't like my reply.
I think it is and has changed things. But I think you are torturing yourself looking for confirmation that he has feelings for you. You say you can feel it and I trust that you can. But I think you HAVE TO check this out with him. He might not answer you, he might not even realize the signals he is sending out. But conscious or unconscious, you are being led on and there are enough little things that keep you enticed, keep you looking for other things that you can take a proof about what you think he feels.
It seems to me that this needs to get processed. It might be really uncomfortable but I think it will be worth it. Knowing but not knowing, wondering but not really wanting to know, geez, it really must take up so much brain space.
I think that by bringing it up you will benefit you, him and your therapy. He needs to be made aware of how you feel and how his behavior appears. It seems super important. I hope you can.
Posted by orchid on December 4, 2005, at 7:00:38
In reply to Re: therapist outside of office setting, posted by daisym on December 3, 2005, at 23:50:34
Posted by Pfinstegg on December 4, 2005, at 10:19:33
In reply to Re: therapist outside of office setting, posted by daisym on December 3, 2005, at 23:50:34
I also agree completely with orchid and daisy. You have a very positive therapeutic alliance with him, which is now including sexual feelings. That's wonderful- IF you use all these things to benefit your own growth, both sexually and in all the other ways.
But, remember, your therapy and feelings are all about YOU; they are not supposed to be about him. Whatever positive feelings, including sexual ones, that he may have for you should be dealt with in a professional way- by him, but for your own growth, emotional safety and well-being. That's a lot harder to do that acting out feelings.
It does feel so wonderful and exciting, especially in the context of an empty marriage, but how can it possibly be helpful to you to go down that road? It feels wonderful, now, but, if mutual enactments were actually to occur, it could hurt you an awful lot.
Can you take it as the wonderful affirmation of you that it is-and work your way through it by talking about it as fully as possible?
Posted by muffled on December 4, 2005, at 11:14:03
In reply to therapist outside of office setting, posted by happyflower on December 3, 2005, at 21:04:46
Well, sweet happyflower y'know you left yourself wide open on this post?
Everybody cares about you. You so great to have around here.
I'm glad your having fun.
I want you to be happy.
Hate to see you hurt.
These guys are often pretty smart here i've noticed.
Have fun.
Be careful.
Luv ya Happy!!!!
:-)
Muffly
Posted by happyflower on December 4, 2005, at 11:35:46
In reply to Re: therapist outside of office setting » happyflower, posted by muffled on December 4, 2005, at 11:14:03
Several months ago, before I started working out at the gym, I had issues with my allergist flirting with me big time when he saw me in the public and during his band rehearsals. I am sure some of you remember this. My DH was playing in a band with him for a few gigs and my allergist even invited me to play with the band too. Well my allergist was really going overboard and it did make my DH jeolous. He even told my DH that he was "lucky" to have a wife like me! LOL
Well my T knows my allergist and his wife and I discussed this with my T because even though it was flattering, I was worried my allergist would try take it farther. Well my T said something that maybe my allergist was having issues with seeing me out in the public, like he didn't know how to react to seeing me. My T even said if my allergist starts coming on stronger, I could remind him of "boundries" of doctor and patients. So I am wondering if therapists also are not sure how to act or deal with seeing their clients outside of therapy. If it weird for us, I bet it is weird for them too.
Today at the gym I saw my band director and his wife, and it was a little weird for me because he kept looking at me when he was walking around the track with his wife. Now I do have old issues with him that go back about 15 years when he said some sexual comments about me to some other band directors, one who used to be my boyfriends brother. Well I was told what the director said, and I was crushed because he was like a "hero" to me. How could he say such things about me, especially since I was a virgin and all.
Now my T said he saw other clients working out their before, but are they clients he is attracted to? I know some of you think I am "over looking" for clues if he is attracted to me. BUt I can tell you 100% he is, it is so clear, and I know he likes me as a person. We are so alike in our interests and view of the world (which are kinda unique views). I am okay with seeing him at the gym, I enjoy seeing him. He must like to see me their too, but I wonder if he is struggling with this as much as me? What do you think?
Don't worry I am being careful, I am just trying to figure what is going on in his head. Any theories. Whether they are right or wrong ethically.
Posted by happyflower on December 4, 2005, at 11:45:25
In reply to The reason I am asking is because...., posted by happyflower on December 4, 2005, at 11:35:46
And also "why " did he wink at me yesterday? IS he just trying to say he likes me? When a guy winks a girl, is the just being friendly or is he trying to say something to me nonverbally? I guess both anwers could be correct, but with everthing else he has done, it makes me wonder. I know we need to talk about this, and we will, but I just wondering what you guys think is going on in his mind. I know what is right and wrong, you guys don't need to remind me of that, what would you say after all you know about the situation if he WASN"T my T . Would your opinion change on his motives?
Posted by gardenergirl on December 4, 2005, at 12:55:21
In reply to Re: The reason I am asking is because...., posted by happyflower on December 4, 2005, at 11:45:25
I think that as hard as it might be, the only way you can really know the answers to your questions is to ask him. We can all speculate based on your descriptions. You clearly have the most experience and "data" about the issue than any of us do. But only he can tell you what's really going on inside his head.
That said, I do think his behavior certainly would lead me to have similar questions. And I'm certainly just as likely to try to analyze something to "know" the answer before I ask the question.
But as Daisy said, braving asking him will free up so much more emotional and cognitive energy for you to use to your own benefit--whatever his answer is.
gg
Posted by 10derHeart on December 4, 2005, at 15:38:46
In reply to I totally second Daisy. (nm) » daisym, posted by orchid on December 4, 2005, at 7:00:38
Posted by 10derHeart on December 4, 2005, at 15:51:06
In reply to Re: The reason I am asking is because.... » happyflower, posted by gardenergirl on December 4, 2005, at 12:55:21
....maybe the gym thing, and even specifically the recent "wink," could be good ways to get the topic going, if/when you decide to talk about it.
Like you could ask him, "Is it weird to see clients outside the office, like at the gym? I'll tell you what it feels like for me, if you tell me what's it's like for you...."
...or something better....more in the happyflower style of speaking...;-)
Perhaps that'll lead right into a good chance to say something like, "Because I've been wondering about when you winked at me the other day - you never do that here {does he?} - but there you did, and I don't really get what it meant...."
just some ideas.....not that you asked for any :-)
Posted by Tamar on December 4, 2005, at 18:18:46
In reply to What gg said, and I'm thinking....., posted by 10derHeart on December 4, 2005, at 15:51:06
> ....maybe the gym thing, and even specifically the recent "wink," could be good ways to get the topic going, if/when you decide to talk about it.
>
> Like you could ask him, "Is it weird to see clients outside the office, like at the gym? I'll tell you what it feels like for me, if you tell me what's it's like for you...."
>
> ...or something better....more in the happyflower style of speaking...;-)
>
> Perhaps that'll lead right into a good chance to say something like, "Because I've been wondering about when you winked at me the other day - you never do that here {does he?} - but there you did, and I don't really get what it meant...."
>
> just some ideas.....not that you asked for any :-)Those sound like really good ways to start the discussion! Yay 10der!
Happyflower, I agree that the only way you can know what's going on inside his head is to ask. I'd say that whether he was your therapist or your colleague or your best friend's brother's wife's uncle.
I think the wink could be a good way into the discussion. If someone I was attracted to winked at me, I’d definitely find a way to mention it!
Posted by happyflower on December 4, 2005, at 19:09:57
In reply to What gg said, and I'm thinking....., posted by 10derHeart on December 4, 2005, at 15:51:06
Thanks Tender,
Those are some good ideas! He has never winked at me before so that is why I was taken off guard.
So what should I say, Hey you winked at me, does that me you think I am hot stuff? LOLOr is it an invitation for something fun? LOL
Or did a bug fly in your eye? LOL
Posted by happyflower on December 4, 2005, at 19:17:11
In reply to Re: What gg said, and I'm thinking..... » 10derHeart, posted by happyflower on December 4, 2005, at 19:09:57
I think this is the first "definate" sign of him flirting with me with not other explainable reason for the action. It can't be taken any other way, it isn't my imagination, I am not over reading his actions. He did it and it must mean he at least likes me. But why did he do it? I know the only way is to ask him, but it is fun to talk to you all about it. LOL
Posted by happyflower on December 4, 2005, at 19:19:35
In reply to Re: therapist outside of office setting, posted by daisym on December 3, 2005, at 23:50:34
I am happy you responded, I needed to know what you all think, whether I like it or not. I do agree with everything you said. It does need to be talked about soon. Thanks!
Posted by sleepygirl on December 4, 2005, at 19:51:10
In reply to therapist outside of office setting, posted by happyflower on December 3, 2005, at 21:04:46
hey sweetheart,
I gotta say I agree very much with what the other posters have said. I really like 10derheart's suggestions. This sounds confusing to me so I wonder how confusing it must be to you. I don't think you can really work on things in therapy with this hanging in the air, and how hard must it be to talk about things you need to talk about if you're really concerned about HIS feelings to the exclusion of your own? I think it may feel really scary to bring this stuff up, but I feel it is very necessary as well. Now you KNOW we'll all be here ;-)
all the best,
sleepygirl
Posted by fallsfall on December 4, 2005, at 22:24:47
In reply to Re: therapist outside of office setting » daisym, posted by happyflower on December 4, 2005, at 19:19:35
You have also mentioned that it is like having an elephant in the room with you. Maybe that is a different way to start the conversation. And you could hide behind the elephant while you talk about it!!! Good luck, Happyflower.
Posted by orchid on December 4, 2005, at 23:44:56
In reply to This is insane!, posted by happyflower on December 4, 2005, at 19:17:11
Winking at a current client is highly irresponsible thing for a T to do.
IMHO, it will hurt you immensely in the long term. He is being seductive and promising you something which he most likely won't be able to deliver. And even if he delivers it will be at huge cost to you, your husband, your kids, his wife, his kids.
What he is doing is very highly inappropriate and extremely irresponsible and not very ethical for a T to do it. I wouldn't trust myself with such a person - not even for therapy, let alone for marriage or an affair.
I am sorry I am sounding a little harsg and most likely I will get a pbc for this, but nevertheless, I felt it is worth it to warn you as to the nature of your T's actions.
If you were his ex patient, it would be acceptable. But not when you are a current patient. Being seductive is really really bad for a therapist to do to his client.
Posted by orchid on December 4, 2005, at 23:48:51
In reply to Actually I think he is being very irresponsible » happyflower, posted by orchid on December 4, 2005, at 23:44:56
Actually, even if he had admitted to you he is attracted to you in an open and honest manner, it would have been completely acceptable. Then, perhaps both of you could have worked together towards working out a workable plan. I would have respected that kind of openness 100 times more.
But winking at you is really a bad sign of his professional integrity.
Posted by fallsfall on December 5, 2005, at 7:44:32
In reply to This is insane!, posted by happyflower on December 4, 2005, at 19:17:11
I can see times when a wink is used instead of a wave. Just to say "Hi, I see you there". A wink is much more subtle and doesn't interrupt the flow of events the way a wave or "hello" would. Winks are considered seductive (in my opinion) because they are associated with secrecy (maybe because they can be so subtle). But in a sense your relationship with your therapist IS a secret (or is at least confidential). Your therapist has a responsibility to keep confidential the fact that you are a client. At the gym, there are people who know him and know what he does for a living. If he were to be social with you at the gym (which I understand he is sometimes), that could be considered a break in that confidentiality. In that case, I think that a wink would allow him to acknowledge you without telling the whole world "Hey, I know this person!! Wanna guess how I know her?"
I think there are a lot of possible interpretations. And I learned in therapy that it is best just to ask and find out what the person really means.
Posted by happyflower on December 5, 2005, at 8:50:33
In reply to Re: This is insane! » happyflower, posted by fallsfall on December 5, 2005, at 7:44:32
Yeah, everything you say is correct, but he already waved and smiled at me earlier that morning as he was jogging around the track. The wink was after he was done jogging and he walked in front of my machine to check his heart rate, then he winked at me. (he did go out of his way to get there, lol)
I saw him today too, he waved and smiled as usual and later said good morning later when we were both on the track, no wink this time. LOLWe talked about seeing each other at the gym the session after we ran into each other. He said he always lets the client make the first move in saying hello or anything outside of the office. We have an understanding that I don't mind him talking to me in public anywhere and if he sees me and wants to say, HI, he can without me doing so first.
Posted by happyflower on December 5, 2005, at 8:53:30
In reply to Actually I think he is being very irresponsible » happyflower, posted by orchid on December 4, 2005, at 23:44:56
Orchid,
I understand what you are saying and I appreciate your comments. I am glad you are being honest with your comments. Thanks. :)
Posted by Miss Honeychurch on December 5, 2005, at 9:38:46
In reply to therapist outside of office setting, posted by happyflower on December 3, 2005, at 21:04:46
Hi Happy Flower,
Just curious. You mentioned the same thing happened with your allergist. Has this also happened with other doctors? Or other people in general? As far as the flirting, etc.
Posted by happyflower on December 5, 2005, at 11:06:18
In reply to Re: therapist outside of office setting, posted by Miss Honeychurch on December 5, 2005, at 9:38:46
> Hi Happy Flower,
>
> Just curious. You mentioned the same thing happened with your allergist. Has this also happened with other doctors? Or other people in general? As far as the flirting, etc.Nope, before therapy, I was mostly didn't notice if someone was flirting with me. I was less open. My allergist has always flirted gently (like my T does now) but when my allergist saw me outside the office, he really turned up the heat, even in front of my DH. I was a little uncomfortable with it because I thought he was going too far. My T hasn't done anything I am uncomfortable with, but then again I am attracted to him, but not to my allergist, even though he is good looking.
I do admit since therapy, I am more open to everyone that I encounter. And yes I do flirt back too but I am friendly to men and women. But I don't "start" the flirting.I think my T even got a little jeolous of me talking to this other guy at the gym because my T was trying to get my attention because there was this band we both like playing on the radio and he couldn't get my attention because I was talking to this other guy.
I helped my T get a CD of this group that was very hard to get in the US. My T told me in the next session that he thought it was quite a coincedence that that song was playing while we were both their at the gym.
I think both of these guys "started" flirting with me first, and I flirt back a little. Seems harmless to me, it is fun, it feels great for my ego. I even told my T I am enjoying men noticing me, especailly since my DH is rejecting me making me feel like an ugly slug.
Posted by happyflower on December 5, 2005, at 14:07:32
In reply to Re: therapist outside of office setting » happyflower, posted by sleepygirl on December 4, 2005, at 19:51:10
Hi sleepy!
My attraction began the first day of therapy and I feel we have done really good work together. Even though we play around a little, he still is a T when I need him to be.
When I am talking about my issues I am not that concerned with how it is effecting him, it is his job, and I am paying him to be my T . Sometimes I feel a little gulity if I am too hard on him or difficult, but from what others have said, it is common to feel that way.
I do agree that our mutual attraction needs to be discussed, and I plan to when I am ready. I have still managed to work well with him in spite of it all. Maybe it has allowed me to even trust him more because I do feel close to him. The first thing in therapy I needed to do was learn to trust him before I could open up to him. I am still benifitting from therapy, if I wasn't I would have quit a long time ago, in spite of what I feel for him.
Posted by happyflower on December 5, 2005, at 14:26:50
In reply to Re: What gg said, and I'm thinking....., posted by Tamar on December 4, 2005, at 18:18:46
Hi Tamar!
You are right the way I will know is to ask. I know he is VERY honest with me, but I wonder HOW honest he would be if I asked if he was attracted to me. I think he might say that he was, why deny it when he KNOWS I would see right through him if he lied to me about it. But I would except him to do the "proper" thing a T should do and tell the client that it can't go anywhere. At least that is what I am expecting, because he does have a very fine repretation in the community.But I still feel he has more than the average feelings for me than most clients, and I was just wondering if he was stuggling with that himself. You know he just turned 50 this year, and he did tell me he went thought a mid life crises. Maybe he finds my attraction satisfing his big ego. LOL Half his clients are kids, so it probably doesn't happen too often a good looking babe like me has the hots for him. LOL
But even though I would love to have my way with him, I think I am expecting in the end, it will not happen, and he will still remain ethicical even though he might want to have hot sex with me. But I do think if he gave me the green light, I wouldn't be able to resist because I like him so much and I have never been so attracted to any guy this much. It's insane! So the flirting might all be fantazy material, but it is fun to talk and think about at least with you all, if it could happen. :)
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